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J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    A government minister makes the decision?

    Here is what the act says:
    Application for a gender recognition certificate

    8. (1) A person referred to in section 9 may apply to the Minister for a gender recognition certificate.

    (2) An application under this section shall be in writing in the form, including electronic form, as may be prescribed, and no fee shall be charged by the Minister for considering the application.

    (3) The Minister shall consider an application under this section and shall decide to either—

    (a) issue a gender recognition certificate, or

    (b) refuse to issue a gender recognition certificate.

    (4) In considering an application under this section the Minister shall consider the information furnished by the applicant and may request further information from the applicant regarding any information or evidence furnished by the applicant or on his or her behalf.

    (5) The Minister shall give notice in writing to the applicant of a decision under subsection (3), as soon as practicable after it is made, which shall, in relation to a decision under subsection (3)(b) —

    (a) include reasons for the decision,

    (b) inform the applicant that he or she may, under section 17 , appeal the decision within 90 days of the date of the notice, and

    (c) inform the applicant that the decision shall be suspended until—

    (i) the decision becomes final under subsection (6), or

    (ii) the disposal of an appeal under section 17 (2).

    (6) If, on the expiration of the period of 90 days beginning on the date of the notice under subsection (5), no appeal under section 17 is made, the Minister’s decision under subsection (3)(b) is final.

    (7) If, following an appeal under section 17 the court, under section 17 (2)(b) orders the Minister to reconsider his or her decision, the Minister’s decision under subsection (3)(b) is suspended until the Minister reconsiders his or her decision.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/section/8/enacted/en/html#sec8


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Ok cool. You don't want a respectful discussion and you just want to have trollish nonsensical rants.

    haha rants? It was a **** joke. Not a rant. You do realise for a respectful discussion to occur you can't just go running when asked tough questions. So lets go:

    Here's one I posted a few days ago that you completely ignored as per usual. Will you furnish me with an answer this time?
    So you admit to doing it yourself. Good.

    As you say, we're getting there. Next step, acknowledging that biological males cannot be women. First up, can you bring yourself to define what a woman is? Or a female?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts



    That’s so bizarre. If it’s what you are, why would a decision have to be made about you by anyone else?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    That’s so bizarre. If it’s what you are, why would a decision have to be made about you by anyone else?

    Just wait until the Otherkin start demanding their human rights.

    I can see a joint Seanad motion sponsored by Fintan Warfield, Frances Black and Lynn Ruane.

    Imelda May will write the campaign poem with music by the late Christy Moore:

    "In Ireland you don't get to say that Tommy the roofer is not a giraffe."


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,955 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    That’s so bizarre. If it’s what you are, why would a decision have to be made about you by anyone else?


    Not sure if serious, but it’s important that a persons identity is recognised by the State. Nobody asked you before they filled out your birth certificate for example, other people made that decision for you, and it was recognised by the State. Kinda important for things like a passport or a license to drive, being protected by the State from discrimination, that sort of thing.


    The Gender Recognition Act 2015 provides that a person can apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate in order to have their preferred gender recognised by the State.

    Once a Gender Recognition Certificate is issued, the gender of the person named on the certificate becomes for all purposes the preferred gender from that date forward.

    Accordingly, if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.

    The effect of the legal recognition is not retrospective. All rights, responsibilities and consequences of actions by you prior to the date of recognition of your preferred gender remain unaffected.



    What a Gender Recognition Certificate is

    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Just wait until the Otherkin start demanding their human rights.


    Next thing you know they’ll be having children, wha?

    Where have I heard “arguments” like that before?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Just wait until the Otherkin start demanding their human rights.

    I can see a joint Seanad motion sponsored by Fintan Warfield, Frances Black and Lynn Ruane.

    Imelda May will write the campaign poem with music by the late Christy Moore:

    "In Ireland you don't get to say that Tommy the roofer is not a giraffe."

    It’s just so odd. It seems completely outside a government minister’s expertise. I don’t understand how any transgender rights activist would be okay with the decision about gender being so bureaucratic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Tired Gardener


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    The example of male prisoners in the UK, up to 1 in 50 are claiming to be transgender, this is substantially higher than the general population, so it's fair to say not all are genuine cases, it's likely to follow here, but, turn a blind eye to that as it doesn't suit your argument.

    I don't doubt this, however do you have a link?
    Girly Gal wrote: »
    I'm not arguing against trans people, just want to be clear that trans people are entitled to the same rights and protection as everyone in society.

    This. I still think a third space would be a much better way to solve the issues. As it is now we are putting males and females into places which are meant to be exclusive for the opposite sex. Whether the person being placed into these is a danger or not is not the main argument against this practice.

    In a women's shelter the women have experienced domestic violence and/or sexual assault by a man. Putting a transgender mtf in their is going to trigger a lot of the women there. It sends the message that no matter where you go, no matter how much you fight to get spaces away from men, men will always find ways to exploit the system to be near you. It sends the message that a woman is never safe, and that is messed up


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It’s just so odd. It seems completely outside a government minister’s expertise. I don’t understand how any transgender rights activist would be okay with the decision about gender being so bureaucratic.

    Its only a minor administrative process really. I doubt the Minister goes fully through each form and does more than sign on the dotted line.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    I don't doubt this, however do you have a link?



    This. I still think a third space would be a much better way to solve the issues. As it is now we are putting males and females into places which are meant to be exclusive for the opposite sex. Whether the person being placed into these is a danger or not is not the main argument against this practice.

    In a women's shelter the women have experienced domestic violence and/or sexual assault by a man. Putting a transgender mtf in their is going to trigger a lot of the women there. It sends the message that no matter where you go, no matter how much you fight to get spaces away from men, men will always find ways to exploit the system to be near you. It sends the message that a woman is never safe, and that is messed up

    This. It’s men once again encroaching on women. To satisfy their wishes, wants and needs and to hell with those women who object to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Tired Gardener


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Just wait until the Otherkin start demanding their human rights.

    How long before the 'NOMAPS' and 'MAPS', try to hide behind that 'don't kink shame'?

    Ugh!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    Its only a minor administrative process really. I doubt the Minister goes fully through each form and does more than sign on the dotted line.

    A minor administrative process? That is surprising to me. I would’ve thought it would be a rigorous enough procedure considering it’s legal ramifications for the applicant.

    I had to change my name on my bank account recently and I was hauled over hot coals to prove myself so it comes as a bit of a shock that this process is relatively easy :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,955 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    This. I still think a third space would be a much better way to solve the issues. As it is now we are putting males and females into places which are meant to be exclusive for the opposite sex. Whether the person being placed into these is a danger or not is not the main argument against this practice.

    In a women's shelter the women have experienced domestic violence and/or sexual assault by a man. Putting a transgender mtf in their is going to trigger a lot of the women there. It sends the message that no matter where you go, no matter how much you fight to get spaces away from men, men will always find ways to exploit the system to be near you. It sends the message that a woman is never safe, and that is messed up


    You say that, and then in the next paragraph go on to make assumptions based upon nothing more than prejudice. Women in DV shelters are there for a variety of reasons - the most prevalent one is not escaping from violence at all, but rather because they would be homeless otherwise. They aren’t always escaping violence from a man, they are just as likely to be escaping from bad home situations, or violence from their female partners. They’re sometimes allowed keep their children with them, more times they’re not, and they’re always at risk of being victims of violence by the other residents, who are sometimes refused entry and are referred to other services depending upon an assessment of their individual needs and the needs of their children if they have children.

    DV shelters are horrible places generally speaking and it’s likely with new changes to the rules regarding rent supplement for victims of domestic violence that they will no longer have to choose between staying in the circumstances they’re in, or going into circumstances which are just as detrimental to their mental and physical health, and often times even more so.


    The Minister for Social Protection, Regina Doherty, has revealed changes to make rent supplement available more easily to victims of domestic violence.

    Under these new rules, victims of domestic violence can get immediate access to rent supplement for a three month period to ensure that they are not prevented from leaving their home because of financial concerns.

    The usual means test will not apply for this three month period. The process will work based on referrals from Tusla-funded services; referrals from An Garda Síochána and the HSE will also be possible.

    After the three-month period, a further three-month extension may be provided, subject to the usual rent supplement means assessment.

    After six months, if the tenant has a long term housing need, they can apply to their local housing authority for social housing supports and, if eligible, will be able to access HAP.



    Rent supplement changes will help victims of domestic violence


    EDIT: FWIW btw, of all the women and girls whom I’ve met (I won’t include other people since your point was specifically relating to women) who have been victims of domestic violence and physical and sexual abuse, not a single one of them has ever been the least bit awkward about the fact that I’m a man. When I worked in social care services, even the women who were on staff noticed that women who were referred to their services were more comfortable talking with me. Many of the women who used the services felt like they were being judged by female members of staff and it made them feel uncomfortable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    I don't doubt this, however do you have a link?


    Awww :( why do I have to work?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/


    About prisoners and then about TERF as a disgraceful word. Read on to the update from yesterday way down the page. If anyone uses TERF casually again I will go flipping bananas. It is a vile word gleefully appropriated by monsters. And murderers. Literally.

    https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-identified-man-who-killed-dismembered-his-ex-girlfriend-wins-transfer-to-womens-prison-kim-marie-ne-kristoffer-johansson/


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,309 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.



    In a women's shelter the women have experienced domestic violence and/or sexual assault by a man. Putting a transgender mtf in their is going to trigger a lot of the women there. It sends the message that no matter where you go, no matter how much you fight to get spaces away from men, men will always find ways to exploit the system to be near you. It sends the message that a woman is never safe, and that is messed up

    This has happened, but the message for women is, as usual, shut up, or get out
    Hanna said the woman is in her late 20s, has facial hair, chest hair, and wears large black combat boots that “trigger” her with their thumping. She said at one communal dinner, the roommate talked about having had a wife in the past, and a pregnant fiancée, and was overheard talking about some unidentified women as “hot” and expressing her preference for Latina women. Hanna said her mannerisms came across as “piggish” and inappropriate.

    “All of us were completely upset and flabbergasted, pretty much, and instantly all full of fear. They won’t even allow a man on the property without permission by the staff and all the residents. And we had no pre-warning of any of this. There was never any discussions. It was never mentioned. We were all just blindsided,” Hanna said. “Everyone in the house has had at some point male-enforced trauma. This is not about discrimination, this is about the safety of male-enforced trauma victims.”

    She said shelter staff told her: “We’re all about inclusion and it’s unfortunate that you feel this way… Deal with it or leave.”

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/kristi-hanna-human-rights-complaint-transgender-woman-toronto-shelter

    And also, women who object to showering with a male who makes sexual comments about them are wrong too

    https://abc30.com/fresno-homeless-poverello-house-sexual-harassment/3514544/
    The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Tired Gardener


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Awww :( why do I have to work?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/


    About prisoners and then about TERF as a disgraceful word. Read on to the update from yesterday way down the page. If anyone uses TERF casually again I will go flipping bananas. It is a vile word gleefully appropriated by monsters. And murderers. Literally.

    https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-identified-man-who-killed-dismembered-his-ex-girlfriend-wins-transfer-to-womens-prison-kim-marie-ne-kristoffer-johansson/

    Cheers, I'll have a look at them soon enough.

    Just been reading more about the 'cotton ceiling'. Yeah, I honestly think it is safe to say that MRA Incel scumbags have infiltrated the Transgender Rights Movement.

    https://medium.com/@mirandayardley/girl-dick-the-cotton-ceiling-and-the-cultural-war-on-lesbians-and-women-c323b4789368

    As if Lesbians didn't already have it rough from being sexualised by the male gaze in pornography, now they have this crap to deal with as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Its only a minor administrative process really. I doubt the Minister goes fully through each form and does more than sign on the dotted line.

    Disgusting that you'd refer to trans-people as being nothing more than minor administrative processes. The dehuminisation continues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Its only a minor administrative process really. I doubt the Minister goes fully through each form and does more than sign on the dotted line.

    The "at the discretion of the minister" is used for other forms as well. Naturalization for instance.

    All applications to become a naturalised Irish citizen are decided by the Minister for Justice and Equality. The Minister has absolute discretion as to whether or not to grant naturalisation. The Minister considers a range of information available to him in order to make an informed decision on an application for naturalisation. There are strict rules about applying for naturalisation as an Irish citizen and these rules are set out below.

    Which really just means somebody in the office of the ministry. In the case of the self identification it is just boiler plate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Awww :( why do I have to work?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/


    About prisoners and then about TERF as a disgraceful word. Read on to the update from yesterday way down the page. If anyone uses TERF casually again I will go flipping bananas. It is a vile word gleefully appropriated by monsters. And murderers. Literally.

    https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-identified-man-who-killed-dismembered-his-ex-girlfriend-wins-transfer-to-womens-prison-kim-marie-ne-kristoffer-johansson/

    Both tweets in that article are right on the money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    A minor administrative process? That is surprising to me. I would’ve thought it would be a rigorous enough procedure considering it’s legal ramifications for the applicant.

    I had to change my name on my bank account recently and I was hauled over hot coals to prove myself so it comes as a bit of a shock that this process is relatively easy :)

    That wouldn't be self identification though. There is no medical interference in self id. I suppose a passport does need to be uploaded.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Just seen Graham Linnehan has been banned off Twitter


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Just seen Graham Linnehan has been banned off Twitter

    The madness continues.

    Gone under the radar here, but FB and Twitter have been forced to promise to extend their censorship of views that the woke dislike.

    90 major corporations are currently boycotting them for ads until basically they ban anyone who is not a liberal Democrat!

    And these people talk about fascism :rolleyes:

    Should be noted too that almost all of the corporations involved are non union and some have sacked people for joining a union.

    That these people are part of same political alliance as the far left is strange until you realise who is footing the BLM/antifa bill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Just seen Graham Linnehan has been banned off Twitter
    No loss given his continued hate fuelled rants.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,332 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    No loss given his continued hate fuelled rants.

    What I noticed was Linehan kept tagging people in comments, even if they hadn't made any posts on the topic.
    He also did some creepy 'this isn't why I supported you during... (gamergate, for example)' kind of comments, like he was creepily expecting something in return.

    Normally I'd support someone's free speech, but his twitter often harassed folks on twitter. Even going after people's accounts and screen-shotting their bios. (If someone puts 'he/ him' in their twitter descriptions... that's nonsense, obviously. But no skin off my nose. For Graham, it was his way to mock someone).

    Maybe now, instead of being a weird creep on twitter, he'll put his energies more towards being creative.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Someone wise recently warned that it is never the progressive middle class who rise to power after revolutions. History shows it has always been an enforcing class of violent thugs led by intelligent psychopaths who appear out of nowhere. This is worth keeping in mind as people mindlessly cheer on authoritarian "liberal" revolutions that rely on suppression of contrary voices.
    The soi disant progressives who cheer like Mao's best children will also be first up against the wall if they make one wrong step when the dreadlocked freedom fighters with the AK47s take control. Take care ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Meanwhile, real life continues in the many examples of peoples jobs and reputations being manipulated by 'charities'
    Here is more evidence stonewalluk (and counterparts in the West) are not the benign charity many think it is but rather a political queer theory lobby group as far away from it's actual purpose as can be.


    The Little Red Book lobby and the fools who follow them - light is being shone on you.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1276777523544801280
    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/allison-baileys-case/

    Just one discourse on what is happening in real life. Utopia, eh?
    https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/1276833975588323330


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    The madness continues.

    Gone under the radar here, but FB and Twitter have been forced to promise to extend their censorship of views that the woke dislike.

    90 major corporations are currently boycotting them for ads until basically they ban anyone who is not a liberal Democrat!

    And these people talk about fascism :rolleyes:

    Should be noted too that almost all of the corporations involved are non union and some have sacked people for joining a union.

    That these people are part of same political alliance as the far left is strange until you realise who is footing the BLM/antifa bill.

    What's very interesting is that advertising boycotts was one of the major means of media control listed by Noam Chomsky in his excellent Manufacturing Consent. Of course at the time corporate interests were pushing a more traditional right message; whereas now it's more complex, but the fundamental truth of corporate power over the media is completely unchanged.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,955 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Someone wise recently warned that it is never the progressive middle class who rise to power after revolutions. History shows it has always been an enforcing class of violent thugs led by intelligent psychopaths who appear out of nowhere. This is worth keeping in mind as people mindlessly cheer on authoritarian "liberal" revolutions that rely on suppression of contrary voices.
    The soi disant progressives who cheer like Mao's best children will also be first up against the wall if they make one wrong step when the dreadlocked freedom fighters with the AK47s take control. Take care ;)


    Reminds me of Graham Linehan getting rejected when he ran to mammies following being booted off twitter -


    Linehan: Im really sorry to barge in on you Mumsnetters with my problems, but I’ve finally been suspended from Twitter and I have a feeling they’re either going to ban me or just take my verified tick...

    A. Nonymous: Sorry who are you and why should I care that you have been banned from Twitter?

    You seem to be a man by the looks of it so why are you posting in a feminism forum?

    This is a female space.



    Father Ted creator Graham Linehan is banned from Twitter after stating 'men aren't women' in row with trans activists and using the word 'groomer' in years-old post


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Reminds me of Graham Linehan getting rejected when he ran to mammies following being booted off twitter -

    Graham has over 580,000 followers on Twitter, many if not most of them women, who are very glad he has taken a stand against the PC stream on the issue of sex based spaces, sports and protections etc. I'd say that is about half a million more people than give a damn what you or I think.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Graham has over 580,000 followers on Twitter, many if not most of them women, who are very glad he has taken a stand against the PC stream on the issue of sex based spaces, sports and protections etc. I'd say that is about half a million more people than give a damn what you or I think.

    There is something deeply unsettling about silencing someone’s opinion on a platform like Twitter.

    Same goes for the likes of Katie Hopkins, I may not agree with what she says but I would defend her right to express her opinion.


This discussion has been closed.
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