Leo Varadkar post Taoiseach

charlie14

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It just gets more laughable when they start clinging on to some sort of statistical achievement from the past?

I would have thought after you bankrupted the country you may have wanted to leave the past well behind you at this point?

Do you really think the new electorate gives 2 hoots what you did or did not deliver in the last century?

The country is moving on, it is shocking that you cannot realise this, get a grip.

You are correct in that, but you do not seem to realise just how correct you are.
The electorate has moved on. They moved on in 2016 and judged FG on their performance over the period of 2011 - 2016. FG ran a campaign then of pointing to FF in the years prior too 2011 and it did not work.
The general election next year I would not see being any different.
They willagain judge FG as the party of government for the last 4 years and I would not see it being any kinder than in 2016.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The only people killing off Fianna Fáil are the effeffers themselves. It is very sad to watch.

Leave the stats to the number crunchers, I can count eff eff support in this country on one hand.

Well to simplify things, FF went from 20 seats in 2011 to 44 in 2016. Would you bet your life against them having 50+ seats and being the largest party after the next GE? I wouldn't...

IAMAMORON

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well to simplify things, FF went from 20 seats in 2011 to 44 in 2016. Would you bet your life against them having 50+ seats and being the largest party after the next GE? I wouldn't...

Considering you were used to achieving well over 70 seats I think you need to admit that your party is still in a diabolical state. I would expect you to lose seats next year. Name me one policy I should vote for? Just one ?

Do you really think the country is going to let you get your greedy liddle paws back on the coffers so you can destroy it again? Worrying.

charlie14

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The only people killing off Fianna Fáil are the effeffers themselves. It is very sad to watch.

Leave the stats to the number crunchers, I can count eff eff support in this country on one hand.

It is over people, you need to start putting the country first for a change.

I can get that some FG supporters hate FF supporters and vice versa.

When it reaches the stage of delusion then they really need to take a step back for the sake of their own mental well-being.

Loafing Oaf

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Considering you were used to achieving well over 70 seats I think you need to admit that your party is still in a diabolical state. I would expect you to lose seats next year.

They're not my party, I'm just pointing out their fortunes in the real world are nowhere near as bad as you portray. FF are round evens with most bookies to be the largest party after the next GE. If you genuinely believe they won't win 30 seats why not lay that and make your fortune?

hatrickpatrick

Yurt! wrote: »

Looking at him on the television, I just don't get the sense he cares all that much - kind of like he's managing an account rather than leading a nation.

That's been Fine Gael for pretty much this entire decade to be honest. People are forgetting what an unimaginably "smugly indifferent" Taoiseach Enda Kenny was, and plenty of their ministers over time have displayed the same attitudes (James Reilly, Alan Shatter, Eoghan Murphy to name a few) so it might be a slightly unfair criticism of Leo personally. He's basically toeing the party line. I'm too young to remember whether FG has always been this way? What were they like during their brief sting in government after the collapse of FF's coalition in the early 1990s? The fact that the electorate resoundingly reverted to an FF led government in the '97 election doesn't inspire much confidence.

Millicently

Who are the electorate supposed to vote for though? FF/FG are basically the same thing. SF and the Independents are as woke as woke can be. The country is in a mess with huge homeless numbers and not enough medical staff or hospital beds or care homes. There's over a dozen newly built schools that have serious structural problems and yet while one government dept is suing the builder who was given the contract for ALL of those schools a different government department was giving the same guy a contract to build more schools. We're told the cost of righting the structural problems will be 18 million euro, so we know it will be a lot more expensive and the builder won't pay it.


SF and the Independents are right behind FF/FG taking in more and more migrants and we spent 120 million this year on DP. Just think about that for a minute, people waiting years on waiting lists because we haven't enough consultants and the ones we do have are busy in private practice, an unspoken recruitment ban on medical staff to keep costs down but 120 million to spend on people who are arriving from safe countries and claiming asylum. Next year will be worse since there are 4 more of these temporary DP hotels.


Timmy Dooley threatened an Ennis Facebook group when they objected to a 3rd DP facility being opened in Clare. Clare has a Homeless Hub for young Irish families, these things are little better than bedsits and the families are expected to share cooking and laundry facilities but this new 60 something bed accommodation for single male asylum seekers will have independent cooking facilities for the men. This is a grand little country for foreigners but fook the Irish seems to be the political attitude. Nobody has a problem with helping the genuine refugees but numbers here are up 60% this year while they've dropped all over Europe. The word is out that we're a soft touch.

hatrickpatrick

I agree with the woke issue in various ways - the way in which the left has abandoned democratic principles such as free speech and open politics is alarming (I’ll never forget the abject horror I felt the first time I saw a video of PBP members (a party which was formed on the back of a meeting I enthusiastically attended) tearing down anti-abortion posters during the referendum campaign, and I say that as an adamant pro choicer) but the left independents and small parties are still a better option given that if they were in government, they’d actually pursue classically left wing policies such as building social housing, defending basic civil liberties, etc.

Personally I feel that dealing with the housing issue is the single biggest issue in the upcoming election, and that issue will not be dealt with under a government controlled by either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil. At the very least, we need a minority government of either party which is at the mercy of support from the left in order to hamstring them into abandoning their current policy of selling public land on the private market to he highest bidder.

the culture of deference

This sums up Leo


glam accidental politician whose parents could pay 24k a year for his education

Beechwoodspark

Any link for that claim ?

24 k per year ???

IAMAMORON

I would say 24 big ones a year is a bit of a stretch, even for KH , which is a brilliant school and has nurtured and educated thousands of Irishmen for centuries. He was a day pupil surely?

Very lame mud slinging regardless, I mean you are entitled to spend as much money as you like on your off-springs education? The fact that he never threw his toys out of the pram are what needs to be taken out of this particularly lazy bash. He used that education to go to Med school and qualify as a doctor.

the culture of deference

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I would say 24 big ones a year is a bit of a stretch, even for KH , which is a brilliant school and has nurtured and educated thousands of Irishmen for centuries. He was a day pupil surely?

Very lame mud slinging regardless, I mean you are entitled to spend as much money as you like on your off-springs education? The fact that he never threw his toys out of the pram are what needs to be taken out of this particularly lazy bash. He used that education to go to Med school and qualify as a doctor.

KH was 24 a year for borders when I was there


trinity medicine is 56k a year

iamwhoiam

the culture of deference wrote: »

KH was 24 a year for borders when I was there


trinity medicine is 56k a year

Is Leo Varadker not an Irish citizen ? He would not pay fees in Uni because he is

Phoebas

Millicently wrote: »

. Nobody has a problem with helping the genuine refugees but numbers here are up 60% this year while they've dropped all over Europe. The word is out that we're a soft touch.

The number of new asylum seekers in Ireland is 756 per million population. That's a lot lower than the EU average of 1,133.
We are the 14th most popular place for asylum seekers on a per capita basis.

Phoebas

the culture of deference wrote: »

KH was 24 a year for borders when I was there


trinity medicine is 56k a year

Varadkar was a day student, so his parents wouldn't have been paying boarder fees. Not would they be paying international fees at Trinity.

A bit of throwing some mud and seeing what sticks here?

Doc07

the culture of deference wrote: »

KH was 24 a year for borders when I was there


trinity medicine is 56k a year

56k a year. Unlikely you are interested in facts but just in case anyone else repeats it, it’s not 56k for CAO entry route or EU students.
Leo had ‘free fees’ in the 2000s just like the rest of us via the CAO system.

paleoperson

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Depends on how close the result is. If he thinks he can get another shot at screwing the country even more he’ll be hanging around. Otherwise he’ll go back into General Practice.

Why would he? So he can talk to aul' wans about their varicose veins, take people's blood pressure and fob off hypochondriacs for less money than he's getting now? Medicine is what you do when you are book smart and want a reliable way to get a high income, it's not known for its glamour.

I don't know why so many suspect he won't take the natural position of opposition leader if mehole gets elected. In Europe Varadkar may well be a small fish in a big pond and get nowhere, how's that for his ego? Varadkar did really well in his career so far. A high managerial position for a private company would be the only other move I could see him making.

hatrickpatrick

paleoperson wrote: »

I don't know why so many suspect he won't take the natural position of opposition leader if mehole gets elected.

Generally speaking, party leaders who preside during a time in which the party goes from government to opposition tend to take the fall for the failure to maintain the party's popularity. Generally. Indeed, this applies in the broader sense any time a party suffers heavy losses in a general election. Given that in this particular case, he became Taoiseach after an election in which FG were already on the downswing and only barely managed to form a government, it may not be as clear cut, but this is why many people assume that unless FG can regain a majority coalition in the upcoming election, Leo will step down.

I'd also have expected Mehole to step down after the 2016 election in which FF failed to get elected, if they hadn't made such significant gains as to be able to hamstring the resulting FG government. But given the history and the circumstances of that election, it honestly counted as a victory in many FFers' eyes and I remember at the time, any FF supporters I knew were celebrating the result while FGers were licking their wounds. It's not just about winning or losing, but about trends and context. Nonetheless, "party leader steps down after losing election or losing the role of government party to another party" is a reasonably well established cycle of politics.

If FG get the utter thrashing I'm hoping for in the upcoming election, he's a goner for sure. But I'm well aware that judging by current opinion polls, this is likely a pipe dream for the moment.

Millicently

Phoebas wrote: »

The number of new asylum seekers in Ireland is 756 per million population. That's a lot lower than the EU average of 1,133.
We are the 14th most popular place for asylum seekers on a per capita basis.

We had a 60% increase this year. We have heading for 80 Direct Provision Centres in a country of less than 5 million people. I've no doubt the rise was partly driven by the ridiculous government decision to let asylum seekers work if they've been here 9 months or more and not had a decision on their case. The reality is the vast majority of asylum seekers here are bogus economic migrants, many of them have been here years costing us a fortune.

Can you seriously justify a spend of 120 million euro on it this year alone? What will next years cost be? These young single men being sent to hotels that the government is paying millions to revamp and rent for asylum seekers, how many are from refugee camps and how many are the percentage that the government volunteered the country to take off boats refused entry to Italy? The multicultural experiment has failed all over the world and it will fail here.

Yurt2

Millicently wrote: »

I've no doubt the rise was partly driven by the ridiculous government decision to let asylum seekers work if they've been here 9 months or more and not had a decision on their case. The reality is the vast majority of asylum seekers here are bogus economic migrants...

That was an absolutely bonkers move - guaranteed to draw more bogus claims from across the world (don't think that word hasn't got out already) Deliveroo and other bottom of the barrell employers will be delighted.

Leave to remain will inevitably be granted regardless of the merits of the individuals claim - and after 5 years apparently we're to accept that the person is as Irish as Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh drinking a bottle of TK Red Lemonade on the first weekend of September. That's not to mention the attendant family reunification rights that NGOs are seeking to expand to grandparents (I sh*t you not).

Ireland has basically no immigration policy, it's holed beneath the water line.

Phoebas

Millicently wrote: »

W
Can you seriously justify a spend of 120 million euro on it this year alone?

What number can you justify?

Wilfuler.

Is multiculturalism a failed idea?

Was the buzzword a few years back

Wilfuler.

Seems to me dictators was the best job

Everyone armed with nuclear weapons but not firing them

paleoperson

Yurt! wrote: »

That was an absolutely bonkers move - guaranteed to draw more bogus claims from across the world (don't think that word hasn't got out already) Deliveroo and other bottom of the barrell employers will be delighted.

Leave to remain will inevitably be granted regardless of the merits of the individuals claim - and after 5 years apparently we're to accept that the person is as Irish as MeMuircheartaigh drinking a bottle of TK Red Lemonade on the first weekend of September. That's not to mention the attendant family reunification rights that NGOs are seeking to expand to grandparents (I sh*t you not).

Ireland has basically no immigration policy, it's holed beneath the water line.

The other major party leaders are no better. It's shocking to see them routinely talking openly about manipulating the democratic system by blocking candidates that would get votes because of things such as "it's not the type of politics I find appropriate".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/elaine-loughlin-are-we-in-a-new-era-of-intolerant-politics-967709.html

Flanagan is also continually telling people who they should vote for without seeing any irony in it.

They are not living in the real world.

Meanwhile, who would have thought that allowing huge amounts of immigration would make the housing crisis worse?!

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

nc6000

The biggest issue for me in the next election will be housing even though I already have my own home.

FG have failed in making any progress with the issue and I take Varadkar's figure of 40,000 new homes with a pinch of salt. I know people having to pay crazy rents of up to €2,000 per month and know the pressure it's putting them under. The longer they pay these rents makes it less likely they will be able to save for a deposit on their own home and likely leaves them having to rent for the rest of their lives. FG have done nothing to help with the private rental market.

History is already repeating itself with roads into Dublin clogged with people trying to get to work from commuter towns like Navan, Drogheda and Mullingar etc just like the mid 2000's. Public transport has failed to keep up with population growth and commuting habits.

We're back to how it was under Ahern before the crash, you can either afford to pay a massive mortgage in Dublin or you move out to surrounding areas and have to drive back in for work. I worry for my own children and nieces and nephews as I can't see the situation changing by the time they want to go make their own way in life.

I remember back to the late 90's and the housing crisis back then when I was starting out and I don't think much has changed since. We seem to have an ongoing political indifference in doing anything to make it easier for people to put a roof over their heads. Voting for FG or FF won't change this.

Loafing Oaf

paleoperson wrote: »

It's shocking to see them routinely talking openly about manipulating the democratic system by blocking candidates that would get votes because of things such as "it's not the type of politics I find appropriate".

Just think of it, a political party removing from their general election ticket a candidate who flagrantly defies the party line on a major issue like immigration. Shocking carry-on altogether...

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It just gets more laughable when they start clinging on to some sort of statistical achievement from the past?

I would have thought after you bankrupted the country you may have wanted to leave the past well behind you at this point?

Do you really think the new electorate gives 2 hoots what you did or did not deliver in the last century?

The country is moving on, it is shocking that you cannot realise this, get a grip.

Crises are the norm, I don't think that's good 'moving on'.

Idbatterim

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-ill-hike-pension-if-re-elected-38818990.html

Either way there will be another farce of a government after the election. I don’t want another confidence and supply or using independent gov****es to prop it up. Probably the best outcome is a ff or fg coalition. Potentially sf in there , if they would force the housing issue. They just need to make it cheaper to build apartments, simply by eliminating the dual aspect requirement. I am totally against more welfare increases too, the last area more money needs to be squandered! Hiking the oap is a very cynical move, that is already a ticking time bomb!

riddles

nc6000 wrote: »

The biggest issue for me in the next election will be housing even though I already have my own home.

FG have failed in making any progress with the issue and I take Varadkar's figure of 40,000 new homes with a pinch of salt. I know people having to pay crazy rents of up to €2,000 per month and know the pressure it's putting them under. The longer they pay these rents makes it less likely they will be able to save for a deposit on their own home and likely leaves them having to rent for the rest of their lives. FG have done nothing to help with the private rental market.

History is already repeating itself with roads into Dublin clogged with people trying to get to work from commuter towns like Navan, Drogheda and Mullingar etc just like the mid 2000's. Public transport has failed to keep up with population growth and commuting habits.

We're back to how it was under Ahern before the crash, you can either afford to pay a massive mortgage in Dublin or you move out to surrounding areas and have to drive back in for work. I worry for my own children and nieces and nephews as I can't see the situation changing by the time they want to go make their own way in life.

I remember back to the late 90's and the housing crisis back then when I was starting out and I don't think much has changed since. We seem to have an ongoing political indifference in doing anything to make it easier for people to put a roof over their heads. Voting for FG or FF won't change this.

The creation of NAMA confirmed we were firmly on a path to get back to the point of disaster again. The only difference now is we are 220 billion in debt and have all the same problems if not worse. A motley political mixture of boxer Moran, Lord Ross and Leo’s lot at the helm. You quite literally could not make it up.

is_that_so

nc6000 wrote: »

The biggest issue for me in the next election will be housing even though I already have my own home.

FG have failed in making any progress with the issue and I take Varadkar's figure of 40,000 new homes with a pinch of salt. I know people having to pay crazy rents of up to €2,000 per month and know the pressure it's putting them under. The longer they pay these rents makes it less likely they will be able to save for a deposit on their own home and likely leaves them having to rent for the rest of their lives. FG have done nothing to help with the private rental market.

History is already repeating itself with roads into Dublin clogged with people trying to get to work from commuter towns like Navan, Drogheda and Mullingar etc just like the mid 2000's. Public transport has failed to keep up with population growth and commuting habits.

We're back to how it was under Ahern before the crash, you can either afford to pay a massive mortgage in Dublin or you move out to surrounding areas and have to drive back in for work. I worry for my own children and nieces and nephews as I can't see the situation changing by the time they want to go make their own way in life.

I remember back to the late 90's and the housing crisis back then when I was starting out and I don't think much has changed since. We seem to have an ongoing political indifference in doing anything to make it easier for people to put a roof over their heads. Voting for FG or FF won't change this.

This seems to assume that there is an entity out there who can and will "solve" the housing "crisis". There really isn't unless you want 50% taxes on anything earned over €30K. Building will solve it and all any government can do is facilitate that as far as possible. While I take a very dim view of what LAs do they have largely escaped scot free on culpability on what is their remit: social housing. Unfortunately the government and the private sector have had to step in there as well.
As for Ahern's time, it is very different. Sure there is a lot of commuting but that damage was done with the lunacy from the late 1990s. There is now proper control over how much debt people can get into, unfortunately reducing the options of affordability for some potential buyers. Private rental will have to be part of the solution, in the way that it is done in other countries, i.e. long term but generally affordable leases.