Does anyone know what did Ireland do to improve on gender gap recent year ?

mvl

Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
- benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

And I wish you a Merry Christmas, too!

Assetbacked

It's big business for some that a gender pay gap exists so that certain groups retain funding. In addition, CVs need to be padded for certain individuals with projects related to the area.

The Central Bank Gender Pay Gap Report 2019 and PwC Gender Pay Gap Report 2019 (search via Google for the PDFs).

Central Bank said it decreased by 0.3% to 2.4% in 2019. At this rate, it won't exist in less than a decade. It's not a non-issue in Ireland but we are extremely progressive and are heading in the right direction so we don't have to feel bad at where we are.

Gynoid

Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

Please post examples...
Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.

mvl

looking at gender pension gap across EU - page 6 on this report for 2017 - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/631033/IPOL_BRI(2019)631033_EN.pdf
at 30.1 %, Ireland is below average (35.7 %).

what is interesting is that countries from eastern europe take the lead on this one.

US2

Gynoid wrote: »

Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man?

Please post examples...
Eg in civil service position of equal grade, or on the assembly line in a factory doing the same thing or working in the supermarket, both doing the same job. Or a male nurse vs female nurse doing same job? Teacher pay different for male vs female teacher in same school? Female accountant in a company doing same hours, same work getting paid less? Etc etc. This is for my education purposes.

IF this is really happening I will be quite cross and fully on board the project of agitating for equal pay. Really I will, because it would be disgraceful. I would be a good ally fir the cause as I can be quite determined, so show me the proof please. Same job, same work, same hours, different pay.

If it is not happening then I will not care. But I will wonder briefly once more why there is lying about the gender pay gap.

There is no examples.

ThunbergsAreGo

mvl wrote: »

Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
- benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

So we are 7th in the World on this more or less non issue.

Move along

mickuhaha

mvl wrote: »

looking at gender pension gap across EU - page 6 on this report for 2017 - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/631033/IPOL_BRI(2019)631033_EN.pdf
at 30.1 %, Ireland is below average (35.7 %).

what is interesting is that countries from eastern europe take the lead on this one.

Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.

mvl

mickuhaha wrote: »

Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.

I would assume the pension is a reflection of the overall paye during employment. Guess it would take significant time to get the pension gap addressed...

mickuhaha

mvl wrote: »

I would assume the pension is a reflection of the overall paye during employment. Guess it would take significant time to get the pension gap addressed...

There are three types government-run Retirement Insurance system(PAYE) , 2) private company plans and 3) private individual retirement investments.
The first one is dependent on contributions to a state. The second the wealth of the company you work for and the benefits they pay as part of employment and the third the responsibility of the individual. This system is all based on the worth or skill set of the individual , the period of time they work and zero to do with sexism. The report itself does not suggest that is because of sexism itself but rather gives a list of reasons pensions differ in general. This difference is the same between individuals in the same sex.

The Orb

The gender pay gap is like Santa Claus.....

Phoebas

Gynoid wrote: »

Can someone post me a direct example of where in Ireland for the exact same job a woman gets paid less than a man? .

There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

Dodge

mickuhaha wrote: »

Can someone asides from the individual person be responsible for their own pension or are you suggesting there is sexism around the amount of a pension people are being paid.

https://www.esri.ie/news/ireland-has-a-gender-pension-gap-of-35-per-cent

ESRI report on the gender gap in pensions. Effectively the gap in state pensions is 0% so only private and occupational pensions account for the gap.

There are a few reasons for this (you can read the report) but it’s effectively down to historic work patterns and levels of pay.

Remember that current pensioners include many who had to resign from jobs when they got married (the ‘marriage bar’ only lifted in 1973).

So while the pensions themselves aren’t ‘sexist’, there were clearly gender related reasons why many pensioners couldn’t earn as much as men, and why most jobs with established occupational pensions went to men too

This continues to change thankfully

Gynoid

mickuhaha wrote: »

There are three types government-run Retirement Insurance system(PAYE) , 2) private company plans and 3) private individual retirement investments.
The first one is dependent on contributions to a state. The second the wealth of the company you work for and the benefits they pay as part of employment and the third the responsibility of the individual. This system is all based on the worth or skill set of the individual , the period of time they work and zero to do with sexism. The report itself does not suggest that is because of sexism itself but rather gives a list of reasons pensions differ in general. This difference is the same between individuals in the same sex.

On the matter of the pension schemes one issue I have (from personal experience) is that there is no contribution recognition from the state for the unpaid but surely valuable work of stay at home mothers. My children now contribute a lot to the state in terms of their innovation, expertise and on a mundane level big chunks of tax. I never made enough in my self employment work for a private pension plan, I had a family before child allowance payments were quite high and after 25 years raising a family I had no pension and am scrabbling now to get enough contributions. Anyway it is a side issue. It also does not fit into any modern activism agenda. C'est la vie.

Gynoid

Phoebas wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

I asked for an example of this unequal pay. You have not given one. You have spoken instead of structural issues. What are these plenty of examples of unequal pay? Please.

Dodge

Gynoid wrote: »

On the matter of the pension schemes one issue I have (from personal experience) is that there is no contribution recognition from the state for the unpaid but surely valuable work of stay at home mothers. My children now contribute a lot to the state in terms of their innovation, expertise and on a mundane level big chunks of tax. I never made enough in my self employment work for a private pension plan, I gad a family before child allowance payments were quite high and after 25 years raising a family I had no pension and am scrabbling now to get enough contributions. Anyway it is a side issue. It also does not fit into any modern activism agenda. C'est la vie.

You can claim up to 12 years per child, up to 20 overall currently, if you weren’t working and bringing up children full time. They call it ‘home caring’ credits. You still the minimum of 10 years paid to qualify for this

However whether your children are brilliant or not is (and should be) immaterial to this. Similarly the ‘valuable’ work you do (and it is) was done by many working parents too

For many people looking after children at home is a personal choice now. And if they can afford it, good luck to them

Peatys

mvl wrote: »

Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
- benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

Cut the social welfare/leave on having kids. More women stay in work and climb that ladder at the same pace as the lads.

Phoebas

Gynoid wrote: »

I asked for an example of this unequal pay. You have not given one. You have spoken instead of structural issues. What are these plenty of examples of unequal pay? Please.

I linked to a case that effected 3000 people.

Gynoid

Dodge wrote: »

You can claim up to 12 years per child, up to 20 overall currently, if you weren’t working and bringing up children full time. They call it ‘home caring’ credits. You still the minimum of 10 years paid to qualify for this

However whether your children are brilliant or not is (and should be) immaterial to this. Similarly the ‘valuable’ work you do (and it is) was done by many working parents too

For many people looking after children at home is a personal choice now. And if they can afford it, good luck to them

I could not afford it. Obviously, or else I would not scrabble now for the 10 years contributions.
I judged as a young woman that it would be better for them in terms of their well being. My choice of course, one that causes zero regrets.
It is still not a fashionable part of any agenda is my point. State funded creches where low paid workers care for children from infancy has been the program. Not a broader look at the nature of being human and the meaning of life, but instead crude and cruel economics ruling humanity above all else. I dont agree with it, and I see from how you put valuable in inverted commas that we do not agree with each other. And that is fine. I am merely pointing out other angles, not looking to be assessed through an empirical cost benefit analysis.

Die Hard 2019

Phoebas wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

That's 22 years ago,

ArrBee

Considering you can choose your gender now, you could argue anyone choosing to be a woman could swap to be a man if they were concerned with any perceived pay gap.

Surely self id law has given the power to correct any gender based society issues firmly in the hands of the individual?

Dodge

Gynoid wrote: »

I could not afford it. Obviously, or else I would not scrabble now for the 10 years contributions.
I judged as a young woman that it would be better for them in terms of their well being. My choice of course, one that causes zero regrets.
It is still not a fashionable part of any agenda is my point. State funded creches where low paid workers care for children from infancy has been the program. Not a broader look at the nature of being human and the meaning of life, but instead crude and cruel economics ruling humanity above all else. I dont agree with it, and I see from how you put valuable in inverted commas that we do not agree with each other. And that is fine. I am merely pointing out other angles, not looking to be assessed through an empirical cost benefit analysis.

You mentioned it isn’t discussed in terms of pensions. I pointed out, as the home caring credits were introduced in 2018, following the introduction of homemaking scheme in 1994, that it in the world of state pension, you were wrong.

The home caring roles are absolutely a factor in state pension reforms. In fact they’re probably the biggest factor

As for ‘valuable’, I use the inverted commas as I believe there are many ways to be a good parent. Simply staying at home isn’t enough for me. There are numerous bad parents who stay at home and numerous parents who work and provide valuable parenting

And for many people they simply don’t have a choice. So while I fully agree that the issue of parenting and childcare is a broad discussion that needs to be had. The current situation precludes most low/middle earners from having the choice and I don’t like people believing that working parents are lesser than those who can afford not to work and who provide their ‘valuable’ parenting full time

I’m not suggesting you were implying this BTW, just pointing out why I used ‘valuable’.

Now back to the pay gap...

Gynoid

The usual angle here is that it is not a pay gap but a motherhood gap.
But you can pipe down if your motherhood pay gap does not fit the program. Its okay, I am used to that.

On another note I keep mis-typing pay gap with pay fap.

Fr_Dougal

mvl wrote: »

Seeing Ireland is 7th out of 10 in this top ranking countries considered to be closest to achieve gender equality, link
- benchmarking looked at health, education, work and politics.

Other countries from Northern Europe, or NZ, seem pretty much few levels above than we are, and so would assume have a well deserved place.

But ... does anyone have any idea what did Ireland do recently to improve on gender gap ?

I.e. on same page, only 17.6 % women in companies' boards of directors => average ... like everything else around here on this subject, or no ?

Apparently they had to temporarily remove the glass ceiling to fit in that new printer, expect things to get back to normal next year.

Eric Cartman

Ireland made the gender pay gap illegal in 1998 with the employment equality act and as such it has not been a problem since.

However the primary carer of children pay gap has been closed by introducing paternity leave, women delaying having children, remote working and job sharing and a bunch of really sexist programs that allow (usually only women) to take years out of work and come back to a pay and promotion level the same as a man or childless woman who had never left work, effectively removing any disadvantage to having children and allowing this clown world to exist where people who dedicate themselves to their career or don’t have children just get kicked in the face mid way through their career.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

They haven't done much in the nursing and teaching sector

Student Nurse Population is 90% Female

A few builders started identifying as ladies I reckon..

carq

i think 2020 will be the year the gender pay gap brigade will collide with ' Gender is a social constuct' brigade.
Lots of people i think spout both ill informed views at the same time without realising the hypocrisy .

Look forward to seeing them squirm

tobsey

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ireland made the gender pay gap illegal in 1998 with the employment equality act and as such it has not been a problem since.

However the primary carer of children pay gap has been closed by introducing paternity leave, women delaying having children, remote working and job sharing and a bunch of really sexist programs that allow (usually only women) to take years out of work and come back to a pay and promotion level the same as a man or childless woman who had never left work, effectively removing any disadvantage to having children and allowing this clown world to exist where people who dedicate themselves to their career or don’t have children just get kicked in the face mid way through their career.

Those programs don't exist. You might come back in on an equivalent pay level after maternity/parental leave, but you won't just be given a promotion.

In almost all cases the gender pay gap isn't caused by men being paid more for the same role, it's men advancing their careers further and easier than women, usually due to having a family. You can't deny that this happens when you look at the workforce at a macro level. High level positions are overwhelmigly male dominated.

I've seen it first hand. My wife graduated a year before me and was always one step ahead career wise. Then we got married, had three kids in four years and she's behind where she was in her career, never mind compared to me. Some of this was down to our own choices, based on how we wanted to run our family, but it was definitely the easiest choice. It should be easier for women to maintain their career progression while having a family.

Phoebas

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

That's 22 years ago,

It was, but unfair pay and conditions effect people all their working lives (and into their retirement). There are, of course, more recent cases (example, example, example).

But as I said, the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about structural problems in the labour market.
I never quite understood the knee jerk reactions some men have about the gender pay gap, like they're in competition with women but not with other men. Surely a level playing field ultimately benefits us all.

Reviews and Books Galore

Phoebas wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of unequal pay, but the gender pay gap is not really about direct comparison cases; more about differences in aggregate due to structural problems in the labour market that tend to disadvantage women.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/3-000-state-clerical-staff-secure-up-to-40m-back-money-in-equal-pay-case-1.1047738

Or men are more likely to puck profitable jobs, see their worth in how much money they make and work longer hours