Does anyone know what did Ireland do to improve on gender gap recent year ?

mvl

Gynoid wrote: »

I have read that sentence several times and on none of the readings has it made any sense to me.

If someone works long hours and at awkward times why the heck should they not be rewarded, even disproprotionately, be they man or woman? Anything else is a form of ...communism, surely? Maybe someone can explain to me.

I assume this can be explained by your professional background. Try to read the article, it is interesting.
It can refer to private companies expecting ppl to work 60/80h weeks by default, offering high wages but no flexi time - there can be increased paye for the extra hours and oncall rates - but in theory these types of jobs/hours would not work for the main carer of the family (be it the mother of the father).

Gynoid

mvl wrote: »

I assume this can be explained by your professional background. Try to read the article, it is interesting.
It can refer to private companies expecting ppl to work 60/80h weeks by default, offering high wages but no flexi time - there can be increased paye for the extra hours and oncall rates - but in theory these types of jobs/hours would not work for the main carer of the family (be it the mother of the father).

https://careersmart.org.uk/occupations/equality/which-jobs-do-men-and-women-do-occupational-breakdown-gender

Im away on me holliers and not going to read a 29 page article, mvl I skimmed it and there is a lot of juggling of statistical analysis, and overall the article seems particularly slanted towards the more elite professions. I see no mention of the gender gap in actual occupations. If you quickly look at what I linked it shows occupation distribution. A lot of the occupations dominated by males are dangerous, tedious, detrimental to the body long term, dirty, smelly etc. I would not ve able to work on an oil rig or cutting metal, it would drive me mad. But someone HAS to.
If one is to speak honestly about any gender gaps then such facts should not be left out. In the end things balance out reasonably I think. Less hours, less stress, thus less pay seems fair.
Excessive social engineering to accommodate primarily women at the upper end of rather pleasant professions seems a tad unfair if the other parts of reality are ignored.

Arrival

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

LOL.

For someone that proclaims themself to be "intelligent", your arguments, critical thinking, debate style, self awareness, closed mindedness, ignorance of the difference between gender "pay gap" and "earning gap" and consistent "man hating" are quite frankly astounding.

You have done nothing for your crusade here except wind rational people up.

Men=Bad durr durr

She's an outright misandrist, simple as that. A female version of those redpill misogynists. No reasoning with such people, they're zoned in on their victim worldview and only acknowledge things that confirm that. It's easier to play victim to justify your lack of personal success than to just work hard and be motivated enough to do what's necessary to succeed in the way you want. Same mindsets as begrudgers

bunderoon

Arrival wrote: »

She's an outright misandrist, simple as that. A female version of those redpill misogynists. No reasoning with such people, they're zoned in on their victim worldview and only acknowledge things that confirm that. It's easier to play victim to justify your lack of personal success than to just work hard and be motivated enough to do what's necessary to succeed in the way you want. Same mindsets as begrudgers

"they're zoned in on their victim worldview and only acknowledge things that confirm that"

Exactly that. I said previously that discrimination exists. But Jenny ran with that. Didn't even take a minute to let it sink in regarding what I meant.
I later had to elaborate. But no reply.
Sees what she wants to see so there is to constructive discussion. Just buzzword replies that could be lifted verbatim from any femanazi blog/website.
Such a shame really.

Sarahdunners

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Woh! The arrogance! I never said, that I DID answer any of your questions. I said that I had to go.

You know, but your posting style is rather abrasive, and I can understand why you're on the receiving end of so many attacks. Why say that? I mean it... what purpose does it serve to insult another poster in such a manner.

You answered my post with vague nonsense. and then left it saying that you would return, but continued answering other peoples posts. Pretty fair observation on my part.

Do you expect me - in the Christmas holidays - to be on here every second of the day? Wind your arrogance back in.

Nope... although I expected you to answer the question when you said you would. That's not arrogance. That's believing you at your word.

There are MORE than enough resources for everyone in society. Lets look at another example: You are well aware , as am I , that there is no need for anyone to be homeless in this day and age.

There are more than enough resources to provide for them.

And...... another deflection. Now you're introducing homelessness. Relevance? Yup. None. :rolleyes: And just a single point with no support or introduction. Nope. Don't expand on it. I'm not interested in you harping about something completely unrelated to the topic on hand.

You said you enjoyed a discussion... but once again, you've shown yourself incapable of committing yourself to a discussion.

Dick_Swiveller

Sarahdunners wrote: »

What about the long list of corrupt male politicians in Ireland?

Charlie Haughey telling everyone to tighten their belts, while he bought an island for himself, and stole money from a Cancer fund - swiftly comes to mind.

Yes, there are useless male politicians and useless female politicians. Women aren't a panacea of virtue and nobility. They're quite capable of being as useless as men.

mvl

mvl wrote: »

<<The solution does not (necessarily) have to involve government intervention and it need not make men more responsible in the home (although that wouldn’t hurt). But it must involve changes in the labor market, especially how jobs are structured and remunerated to enhance temporal flexibility. The gender gap in pay would be considerably reduced and might vanish altogether if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours.>>

It's a precept of socialism. And it simply doesn't work on a degree of a large scale. It does work with small numbers of people 50-100 who all own a business, and receive a share of the profits based on the cooperation. However, such businesses tend to implode after a decade or so because of competing views on how the business should develop should it face the horrible fate of being successful.

The problem is that competition drives the majority of the job market. The low paid jobs are low paid because they're filled with the people who just don't want to compete. Not everyone is the same after all. Some people are highly competitive, some are just plain ambitious, and others just want to do their job & go home.

The rewards that people who do engage in the competitive market can be quite high. It depends on your commitment, ability to adapt and a fair amount of luck. And that's why so many people love the idea of socialism. Socialism means that you don't have to work hard because someone else will... for you. Because you're all essentially equal, the people who are more hardworking, will do more, and compensate for your lackluster performance. Whereas in a competitive market, the lackluster performance puts you near the bottom.

In spite of what others have said here, the chance of getting promotions due to family, favors, or by being male is extremely rare. Laws and society itself has changed over the last four decades to remove such attitudes, because it was once a definite way for people to advance. It still is, in some areas, like the county council related companies/projects or certain political offices. Note: I did say for males it's rare... because the laws were brought in to prevent such behavior for males. We have gender quotas and equality programs who will promote women simply because they're female, and/or a perceived minority.

The point is that socialism or communism (although communism is a very different fish) appeals to the writer of the article... or to many other people because they believe it will allow them to drift through life. Someone else will pick up the slack they leave behind, and in a socialist state of existence, you can't complain about it because it's all for the greater good. Awesome.

Anyway, I've spent time in various "communist", maoist, and socialist countries, and they've all adopted a competitive environment because it's far more productive/efficient for the nation, and people generally receive what they deserve. It's actually fair.

The Gender pay gap exists because certain people want a free ride. They want to coast through life with someone else footing the cost in time, effort or money. Women who don't want to compete, work in areas that pay well, or not have a family, want there to the pay gap to be a valid complaint because they want their cake and eat it too. They're not willing to accept reality, so they wish to change it to make it more suitable for them. It doesn't matter that the consequences of that reality would place more hardship on others... After all, it's just men that would be affected (the more competitive and career driven women are conveniently ignored).

Sarahdunners

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You know, but your posting style is rather abrasive, and I can understand why you're on the receiving end of so many attacks. Why say that? I mean it... what purpose does it serve to insult another poster in such a manner.

You answered my post with vague nonsense. and then left it saying that you would return, but continued answering other peoples posts. Pretty fair observation on my part.



Nope... although I expected you to answer the question when you said you would. That's not arrogance. That's believing you at your word.



And...... another deflection. Now you're introducing homelessness. Relevance? Yup. None. :rolleyes: And just a single point with no support or introduction. Nope. Don't expand on it. I'm not interested in you harping about something completely unrelated to the topic on hand.

You said you enjoyed a discussion... but once again, you've shown yourself incapable of committing yourself to a discussion.

Why I am on the receiving end of so many attacks, is:

Because I am a woman, and the absolute majority of posters on this thread are male.

I am a woman - talking about the gender pay gap (which discriminates against women) with mostly male, unenlightened posters. Of course I am going to be on the receiving end of attacks. It is an apt reflection of what society is like in Ireland today.

If there was a race pay gap, and a black person came on to talk about it , with mostly white people on a forum in a racist society - of course he is going to be attacked.

It is what I expect. You are a clear reflection of the sexist society that we live in. Well done lads, for proving my point so succinctly, over and over.

the_pen_turner

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Why I am on the receiving end of so many attacks, is:

Because I am a woman, and the absolute majority of posters on this thread are male.

I am a woman - talking about the gender pay gap (which discriminates against women) with mostly male, unenlightened posters. Of course I am going to be on the receiving end of attacks. It is an apt reflection of what society is like in Ireland today.

If there was a race pay gap, and a black person came on to talk about it , with mostly white people on a forum in a racist society - of course he is going to be attacked.

It is what I expect. You are a clear reflection of the sexist society that we live in. Well done lads, for proving my point so succinctly, over and over.

the reason you are being 'attacked' is because you came on here and bad basless claims that have been disproven and you have failed to have an adult discussion about it. every time you have been asked a question you have deflected and not answered the question but came back with another fancyfull claim.

for what its worth there probably is a black earnings gap . if a black person( or anyone really) made claims that it was based on discrimination rather than the career choices of the person in question then i would expect they would rightfully be qestions on their claims and shown how wrong the were

Sarahdunners

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Why I am on the receiving end of so many attacks, is:

Because I am a woman, and the absolute majority of posters on this thread are male.

The reason that people associate you with feminism, is because of this victimhood complex that you repeatedly show. The only person discriminating regularly in this thread is you. Sure, a few people have made derogatory remarks about women in general, but they tend to disappear after their soundbite. You, on the other hand, repeatedly make misandry related comments, and reinforce the idea of being a victim in every situation.

I am a woman - talking about the gender pay gap (which discriminates against women) with mostly male, unenlightened posters. Of course I am going to be on the receiving end of attacks. It is an apt reflection of what society is like in Ireland today.

I'm a person. My gender is not incredibly important with regards to my views on this topic. The Gender pay gap.That's something that you seem to focus far too much on. Gender. Us VS them. Gender Identity politics crap. Now, if this thread was on feminism, and male rights, then my gender would be a primary influence, however, I would still seek to see both sides of the argument, and be reasonable. Why? Because that's what a good discussion requires.

Once again, you're dismissing and insulting the posters of this thread, when you have repeatedly failed to address their points directly. Instead, you deflect whenever you meet any serious resistance to your views.

And it is not an apt reflection of Irish society today. FFS. I live in China most of each year and I have a better awareness of Irish society than you do. Ireland today is extremely pro-female, and very hip to protecting women from anything negative. Thankfully, Ireland hasn't embraced the nonsense from the US, but it's still an extremely good place for a woman to live.

Instead... you're reaching. Searching desperately for another way for you to claim to be a victim. You, as a female in Ireland, receive far more benefits, and protections than any male, and yet, you're still unsatisfied. Ireland is not an equal society... females receive far more positives for their sex, than a male ever does for his. In an equal society, your sex wouldn't be of any importance, and it would be your skills/ability/intelligence/conviction which helped you find success. An equal footing with males, since the one major advantage males have is physical strength, which has no place in most professional workplaces. Oddly enough, these are often the careers with the most salaries too. :rolleyes:

If there was a race pay gap, and a black person came on to talk about it , with mostly white people on a forum in a racist society - of course he is going to be attacked.

Why? Ireland doesn't have a cultural or historical relationship with racism based on color. Most Irish people I know couldn't care less what color a person's skin is. He'd be 'attacked' (although attacked is a rather strong word for being disagreed with) for speaking nonsense, double standards, or for encouraging reverse racism. Just as Ireland hasn't had a majority sexist culture/society in three or more decades. You are aware of all those laws seeking to prevent discrimination based on sex or color? Many of them were introduced initially in the 70s/80s/90s.

What will be the next deflection I wonder? You know, you could just deal with the topic on hand, than introducing unrelated scenarios that don't further the discussion in any way.....

It is what I expect. You are a clear reflection of the sexist society that we live in. Well done lads, for proving my point so succinctly, over and over.

How... exactly... am I a reflection of a sexist society? Go on. Go back over my posts on this thread and pick out any paragraphs (not sentences out of context) where I displayed any sexism, and argue the point.

Sexism, now. Not me simply disagreeing with you. I also notice that you have still failed to answer my question to you. Just another deflection. It is your history on this thread with regards your posting behavior which is generating any degree of hostility from posters. Fact is, while I rarely lower myself to insulting posters themselves, you are seriously making me doubt such a conviction...

Arrival

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Why I am on the receiving end of so many attacks, is:

Because I am a woman, and the absolute majority of posters on this thread are male.

I am a woman - talking about the gender pay gap (which discriminates against women) with mostly male, unenlightened posters. Of course I am going to be on the receiving end of attacks. It is an apt reflection of what society is like in Ireland today.

If there was a race pay gap, and a black person came on to talk about it , with mostly white people on a forum in a racist society - of course he is going to be attacked.

It is what I expect. You are a clear reflection of the sexist society that we live in. Well done lads, for proving my point so succinctly, over and over.

You genuinely need help

mvl

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a precept of socialism. And it simply doesn't work on a degree of a large scale. It does work with small numbers of people 50-100 who all own a business, and receive a share of the profits based on the cooperation. However, such businesses tend to implode after a decade or so because of competing views on how the business should develop should it face the horrible fate of being successful.

But thought what is suggested is flexible working that would benefit parents in general (not only mothers): part time, compressed hours, flexitime, job-shares, remote working ...- decent tech multinationals promote it in some form already (not sure how much it is favored in Ireland though). This obviously won't work for executive roles, but in a flatter organization, any other role could be divided in chunks that can be shared needs be.
From article, flexible working was not a given for MBA and law degrees holders in US:
e.g. - "In sum, the appeal of an MBA for women is large—incomes are substantial even if they are far lower than those of their male peers. But some women with children find the inflexibility of the work insurmountable."
But the author found the pharmacist role as a good example of high earning role which allows flexibility and doesn't penalize time out of the labor force:
"Rather than taking time off, female pharmacists with children go on part-time schedules. In fact, more than 40 percent of female pharmacists with children work part-time from the time they are in their early thirties to about 50 years old. Male pharmacists work around 45 hours a week, about nine hours more than the average female pharmacist. The position of pharmacist became among the most egalitarian of all professions today."

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Why I am on the receiving end of so many attacks, is:

Because I am a woman, and the absolute majority of posters on this thread are male.

I am a woman - talking about the gender pay gap (which discriminates against women) with mostly male, unenlightened posters. Of course I am going to be on the receiving end of attacks. It is an apt reflection of what society is like in Ireland today.

If there was a race pay gap, and a black person came on to talk about it , with mostly white people on a forum in a racist society - of course he is going to be attacked.

It is what I expect. You are a clear reflection of the sexist society that we live in. Well done lads, for proving my point so succinctly, etter and over.

No, it's because you can't debate and you express yourself poorly.

Is there discrimination in Ireland? Most probably.
Is this the reason you aren't getting where you think you should be? Definitely not.

Gynoid

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, it's because you can't debate and you express yourself poorly.

Is there discrimination in Ireland? Most probably.
Is this the reason you aren't getting where you think you should be? Definitely not.

What I would like to know, since we are agreeing so well on this topic is, where is the real Princess Consuela Bananahammock and what have you done with him!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gynoid wrote: »

What I would like to know, since we are agreeing so well on this topic is, where is the real Princess Consuela Bananahammock and what have you done with him!

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER??!

Sarahdunners

I think that if a black person came on here and said: that he thinks there is a race pay gap

I wouldn't be so arrogant, absusive, and dismissive to say to him

"The race pay gap is a myth! Haw haw haw"

I would talk to him like a human being, and listen to his concerns about where he feels discriminated against.

Isn't that the - you know - mature thing to do?

Sarahdunners

I also think it is interesting that some people on here have said - that they don't believe that men have been nasty to me and other women in real life.

And yet if you look back through this thread - there are so many men on here calling me stupid, an idiot, a liar.

You are demonstrating the exact same abusive behaviour, that I am talking about.

How come you haven't learned to talk to women without calling them - crazy, stupid , liars?

It is really making you look incredibly immature.

You need to question that social conditioning that you were brought up with from a young age-

"that men are superior,"

( to perfectly demonstrate this point - a man said on this thread "men are just BETTER than women") - laughable

Look at that behavior in yourselves and stop doing it. We are not in the dark ages anymore. Drag yourselves into the new year of 2020

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Still a massive gender gap in:
Suicides
Life expectancy
Outcomes of divorce (who gets kids/family home)
Homelessness
Drug abuse
Work place accidents

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarahdunners wrote: »

I think that if a black person came on here and said: that he thinks there is a race pay gap

I wouldn't be so arrogant, absusive, and dismissive to say to him

"The race pay gap is a myth! Haw haw haw"

I would talk to him like a human being, and listen to his concerns about where he feels discriminated against.

Isn't that the - you know - mature thing to do?

Not if he whinged and blamed it on his own misfortune, and ignored counter-arguments because he was completely unable to think and debate, such as the point that we have a mixed-race Taoiseacht.

Time to take personal responsibility, Sarah. Your failings are NOT someone else's fault.

Heres Johnny

Any chance of an example of gender pay inequality Sarah? We've been asking for days now at this stage....

Wibbs

Sarahdunners wrote: »

I think that if a black person came on here and said: that he thinks there is a race pay gap

I wouldn't be so arrogant, absusive, and dismissive to say to him

"The race pay gap is a myth! Haw haw haw"

I would talk to him like a human being, and listen to his concerns about where he feels discriminated against.

Isn't that the - you know - mature thing to do?

The problem is SD you are not having a normal "human being" conversation in this discussion. You see damned near everything as an attack.

If said Black guy completely ignored any points raised, saw near every response, mild disagreement, even basic questions as a personal attack on him and his colour and seemed utterly oblivious to any point other those in his own head, then yeah he'd be seen as either a wind up merchant, or a fanatic, or a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

You have rarely directly responded to any points raised by anyone in this thread. When you do post it's almost always the same story, no matter which poster you're quoting. IE women are seen as crazy/second class citizens/victims of Irish society in particular and this is a Fact(tm) and all you men are attacking me. That's your "debate". You'll likely not respond to this either, but if you do; see above. Rinse and repeat.

You rail against "Women" being dismissed as crazy or liars, but I hate to break it to you, out of the other women posting here, you're the only one that's attracting those labels and mostly in your opinion. Ask yourself why if you can.

Ironicname

Sarahdunners wrote:

I think that if a black person came on here and said: that he thinks there is a race pay gap

I would expect him to be able to show clear examples. Otherwise, I would say he is talking rubbish.

Sarahdunners wrote:

I also think it is interesting that some people on here have said - that they don't believe that men have been nasty to me and other women in real life.

I fully believe that people are nasty to you in real life. If your real life persona is anything like your online persona, I would be gobsmacked if people are anything but nasty to you.

Sarahdunners wrote:

And yet if you look back through this thread - there are so many men on here calling me stupid, an idiot, a liar.

Indeed there is. That's the risk of saying stupid, idiotic lies though.

Sarahdunners wrote:

How come you haven't learned to talk to women without calling them - crazy, stupid , liars?

I think it's more of a case of I can't speak to insane, stupid liars without referring to them as such. Gender is not a factor.

Gynoid

Perhaps in addition to the racism of low expectations there is the feminism of low expectations? Wishing to be nannied through education and careers is quite infantilising. Several of my women friends and close relatives have far better careers, pay and prospects than any guys I know, being top notch engineers, archaeologists, medical professors etc., and what they all have in common is a complete absence of ever having felt hard done by as women. This is universal among the ones I know - if anything in our conversations they regularly decry gender quotas and feminist moaning etc. They are just happy, smart, good, ambitious people who work bloody hard.

Cyrus

Sarahdunners wrote: »

I think that if a black person came on here and said: that he thinks there is a race pay gap

I wouldn't be so arrogant, absusive, and dismissive to say to him

"The race pay gap is a myth! Haw haw haw"

I would talk to him like a human being, and listen to his concerns about where he feels discriminated against.

Isn't that the - you know - mature thing to do?

How you feel is irrelevant, facts are relevant

Anecdotes are irrelevant, facts are relevant

Sarahdunners

Sarahdunners wrote: »

<Snip>

Look at that behavior in yourselves and stop doing it. We are not in the dark ages anymore. Drag yourselves into the new year of 2020

Oddly enough, I suspect if you applied the above to yourself, you'd be immeasurably happier... but it's obvious that you just want to preach from the pulpit and not deal with any feedback that doesn't immediately agree with you.

You haven't responded and dealt with, not one of my points. Not even one. In each case, you have deflected to some other belief unrelated to the original points. Shifting goalposts and engineered victimhood complex.

LostinBlanch

Aria Tasteless Tuner wrote: »

Still a massive gender gap in:
Suicides
Life expectancy
Outcomes of divorce (who gets kids/family home)
Homelessness
Drug abuse
Work place accidents

This may have been posted before, but I think it’s wirth seeing again. The For every 100 girls/women chart, updated for December 2019. It’s aimed at a US audience, but I think it’s as relevant to us here as well IMO.

Sarahdunners

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not if he whinged and blamed it on his own misfortune, and ignored counter-arguments because he was completely unable to think and debate, such as the point that we have a mixed-race Taoiseacht.

Time to take personal responsibility, Sarah. Your failings are NOT someone else's fault.

And who said that I am failing? I am not. I am doing very well for myself. Though I am currently not living in Ireland. Just back visiting at the moment.

My fight is not just for me - it is from witnessing other women being abused, and from talking to hundreds of other women about their experiences.

That I am personally doing well for myself - does not mean that I don't see the blatant discrimination against women in Government here in Ireland. I have talked to women in Government, and the stories that they have told me have no place in a developed country. A woman, with two masters degrees, told me that she was told to sit on a man's lap, to go back to the kitchen, and that the man are often stuck in the Dail bar.

Sarahdunners

Deleted User wrote: »

Oddly enough, I suspect if you applied the above to yourself, you'd be immeasurably happier... but it's obvious that you just want to preach from the pulpit and not deal with any feedback that doesn't immediately agree with you.

You haven't responded and dealt with, not one of my points. Not even one. In each case, you have deflected to some other belief unrelated to the original points. Shifting goalposts and engineered victimhood complex.

Klaz - again utter and extreme arrogance.

Are you serious?

Why SHOULD I reply to your points? Why should anyone? Because you wrote some points, that automatically means that some - one has to reply to them?

Where did you get that weird, arrogant, warped logic?

I don't think that I've ever written somthing - and then demanded that someone reply to me. If they want to great - if they don't want to - I wouldn't even notice, I would talk to some-one else.

Seriously where did you get that absolute level of arrogance?

Show me - where it says in the charter "you must reply to every post that is directed at you".

No , you can't show me it, because it is not there, and it is an arrogant level of bull****.

I don't even remember your post. Like a normal person, I log on here every so often and see what the latest posts are. Jesus. Wind down the ego in your posts.

Ironicname

Sarahdunners wrote:

Why SHOULD I reply to your points? Why should anyone? Because you wrote some points, that automatically means that some - one has to reply to them?

Sarahdunners wrote:

Seriously where did you get that absolute level of arrogance?

Sarahdunners wrote:

Are you serious?

Sarahdunners wrote:

Where did you get that weird, arrogant, warped logic?

For someone who doesn't like answering questions, you sure do ask a lot.

carq

Lol this just gets better and better.
So all your ‘evidence’ of Systemic persecution in ireland are these ‘stories’ of people being asked to sit on laps? This the same one as the bus?

And now you dont even live in ireland anymore? Back for the christmas from australia/ canada and telling everyone you meet how great everything there and how ireland is so backward?

Or did you move to finland to launch your political career?


People in ireland are probably in the top .1 % in the world population for standard of living. Women in ireland even higher again. The reality is that there is nothing valid to complain about.
Care so much about womens rights? Go to the saudi arabia embassy and picket them.