Does anyone know what did Ireland do to improve on gender gap recent year ?

Silentcorner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

sadly i have a cousin that believes this nonscience. she regularly spouts it as fact and gets very offended when told its only a myth and that the fact dont show it.

sadly i dont believe this to be trolling. i believe she genuinely is this deluded or brainwashed

It is much easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled! So they say...

Touchee

Fanny **** wrote: »

I could be wrong but I simply refuse to believe someone that stupid could live to adulthood without one day thinking it was a good idea to lick one's finger & stick it in a plug socket

Hence I'm thinking wind up

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

Eric Cartman

Touchee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

Have you just assumed the gender of every other poster based on what side of this argument theyre on......

sounds a bit.....sexist...

Touchee

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Have you just assumed the gender of every other poster based on what side of this argument theyre on......

sounds a bit.....sexist...

Well, the poster I was referring to is a man. I didn’t refer to every other poster. Read my post again

Wibbs

Touchee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

A) there isn't a gender pay gap in the way it's presented, so we can get that red herring outa the way.

While I agree it's disrespectful to call someone stupid for holding an opinion, it's just as disrespectful for someone to hold an opinion, not respond in any normal fashion, don't back up this opinion with anything approaching facts and then go on to call everyone else in the discussion disgusting abusive arseholes.

C) the latter while not necessarily stupid is at best bloody rude, or veering very close the rocks of daft.

D) some opinions are indeed stupid.

Eric Cartman

Touchee wrote: »

Well, the poster I was referring to is a man. I didn’t refer to every other poster. Read my post again

Touchee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

how do you know that poster is a man ?

the_pen_turner

Touchee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

not everyone opiniuns are worth listening to repeatedly
you can come on here and say the most stupid and oddbad stuff you like but you cannot expect that people wont challange it.

all the evidence shows there is no pay gap. it has been ilegal for year and there have been no case brought due to it.

Fanny ****

Fanny **** wrote: »

Lads, she's on the wind up. Absolutely 100%

is this one the same poster "midlands missus" - same m/o, deflects everything, gets hysterical, has a 3rd wave feminst rant and dissappears after being challenged and repeats the cycle a few months later

Touchee

the_pen_turner wrote: »

not everyone opiniuns are worth listening to repeatedly
you can come on here and say the most stupid and oddbad stuff you like but you cannot expect that people wont challange it.

all the evidence shows there is no pay gap. it has been ilegal for year and there have been no case brought due to it.

What evidence? There’s no cases brought because people don’t have access to payroll information, because people are afraid that they will be seen as trouble makers, which may impact their ability to secure future jobs.

In Ireland, reporting on salary payments to men and women broken down into job categories is not a legal requirement, companies do not report such information. So how can the evidence you talk about be obtained? It’s mind boggling that evidence can be gotten, although companies do not provide such information to any authorities.

Huntergonzo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the stats show that it men are twice as likely to be victims of domestic violance than woman.

That's interesting, I remember last year Newstalk ran segments in the mornings for a week or so specially highlighting 'Violence Against Women' but nothing about violence against men, guess that doesn't exist.

the_pen_turner

Touchee wrote: »

What evidence? There’s no cases brought because people don’t have access to payroll information, because people are afraid that they will be seen as trouble makers, which may impact their ability to secure future jobs.

In Ireland, reporting on salary payments to men and women broken down into job categories is not a legal requirement, companies do not report such information. So how can the evidence you talk about be obtained? It’s mind boggling that evidence can be gotten, although companies do not provide such information to any authorities.

if they dont have access to this information then how are they claiming to be paid less per hour than men

Silentcorner

Touchee wrote: »

What evidence? There’s no cases brought because people don’t have access to payroll information, because people are afraid that they will be seen as trouble makers, which may impact their ability to secure future jobs.

In Ireland, reporting on salary payments to men and women broken down into job categories is not a legal requirement, companies do not report such information. So how can the evidence you talk about be obtained? It’s mind boggling that evidence can be gotten, although companies do not provide such information to any authorities.

The private sector is, well, private...until next year when private companies will be obliged to publish the earnings of each gender...

The evidence is staring you in the face every day, men do the dirty, dangerous and difficult jobs that you pass all the time, men also work longer hours, are willing to commute longer distances...again, all of this is self evident...just watch who are in their cars at 6am in the morning...in truth, women have a better work life balance...for now.

The gender earnings gap is a consequence of decisions both men and women make in their careers...

Men get fulfilled not by their work but their ability to provide for their families and are willing to work those long hours, those difficult, dangerous and dirty jobs to do just that....and that is before we get into risk taking and innovation.

Feminists are trying to convince us all that this is Patriarchial Oppression and that women are not fulfilled by starting their own families and spending more time with their kids but by working long hours for mundane corporations...it is a spectacular misjudgment that has been indulged for far too long now.

runawaybishop

Touchee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different opinion to yours, doesn’t mean they are stupid. It’s so disrespectful to call the one woman standing up on this forum for what she believes is right, ‘’stupid’’

No wonder there is a gender pay gap with the likes of you around.

If it was a man posting in a similar way would it be disrespectful, or is it only because it's a woman and we must blindly agree?

Fyi other woman post in this thread without issue. The posters posts are what matter, not their gender.

Sarahdunners

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Klaz - again utter and extreme arrogance.

<snip>

I don't even remember your post. Like a normal person, I log on here every so often and see what the latest posts are. Jesus. Wind down the ego in your posts.

It's fine. TBH, I've no interest in wasting any time on you. You're simply incapable of engaging in a respectful conversation. For all your whining about discrimination and being insulted... you were the first, and second, and third to insult me before I even started using sarcasm on you. You cannot even apply the standards you would hold men up to... well.. to yourself. You've embraced the belief in double standards and cannot even see the hypocrisy of your behavior.

So.. yup. No need to reply. You are quite simply the most pathetic poster I've ever seen on boards, and I've encountered quite a few on AH, Humanities (the older forum), or here on CA.

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

sadly i have a cousin that believes this nonscience. she regularly spouts it as fact and gets very offended when told its only a myth and that the fact dont show it.

sadly i dont believe this to be trolling. i believe she genuinely is this deluded or brainwashed

Oddly enough, I've been encountering more and more 'western' women in their 30s with this kind of attitude both in Asia working professionally or simply travelling. Now, the majority are those from the US or Europeans who have lived in the US for a few years. However, it is spreading to other nationalities too. I find it's quite common with US/Canadian female lecturers over here too. A few males, but generally, that's due to their wifes influence.

Pretty sad just how dumb people are getting. Social media, telecommunications, and fake news has a lot to answer for.

Nintendo Lite

Nintendo Lite wrote: »

Even if there are statistics broken down into categories it doesn't prove anything. Two people doing the exact same job can be paid different salaries because one person is a better negotiator than the other.

Not just that. It doesn't take into account shares, benefits, commissions made, etc. Many jobs rely on a degree of sales, which female professionals often want to avoid, hence they earn less in commissions. Or in other cases, people will defer a monetary reward/benefit so that they can have longer holidays, or simply that the person doesn't take their holidays and they're converted into extra salary.

There are so many factors in the calculations of salaries depending on the Industry and position itself. It's only low end jobs which tend to pay equal amounts to their employees...

Beasty

OK, it would appear this thread has become rather heated

Could everyone back off a bit. The topic is the gender pay gap, so please do not bring other "arguments" into it

There may be a threadban amnesty but that does not stop me issuing new ones and if we see the standard of "debate" there has been during the course of today I am prepared to remove posting privileges at thread and/or forum level

So in summary please discuss the topic of the gender pay gap in a civil manner

Any questions, PM me - Do not respond to this warning in-thread

jrosen

I am not sure I believe there is a gender pay gap. I have yet to see one single example where a male and a female both starting at the same job with the same qualifications and experience are paid differently down to gender. I would imagine there would be lots of legal cases pending if this were true.
There will always be pay differences

Ironicname

There is no gender pay gap. It is illegal to pay someone less for exactly the same work based on their sex/gender.

Show me how that is wrong or agree with me.

If you can't, that's the end of the conversation

Dick_Swiveller

jrosen wrote: »

I am not sure I believe there is a gender pay gap. I have yet to see one single example where a male and a female both starting at the same job with the same qualifications and experience are paid differently down to gender. I would imagine there would be lots of legal cases pending if this were true.
There will always be pay differences

I was sure this "gender pay gap" crap was debunked a few years ago. Whenever I hear it mentioned now, I bang my head against the wall about 20 times and pray to God to put an end to this utter, blatant idiocy.

Those pushing it know it's complete and utter waffle. But it's gone beyond an economic argument (if it ever was that). It's become a noble cause among the progressive twitter mob, and no matter how many times the bloody thing is debunked, destroyed, torn to shreds and firmly dismantled, it still comes crawling back to annoy us all over again.

Ironicname

Dick_Swiveller wrote:

I was sure this "gender pay gap" crap was debunked a few years ago. Whenever I hear it mentioned now, I bang my head against the wall about 20 times and pray to God to put an end to this utter, blatant idiocy.

I kiss my daughter goodnight every night, knowing that I have done everything in my power to fight for her right to make whatever choice she makes to be fair and her choice.

If I thought for one moment she was ever to become a man hating arse, I would fight against her tooth and nail.

That is choice.

I have faith that my daughter won't grow up to be a **** because she wasn't raised to be one.

hapime

There is NO gender pay gap
It exists in the minds of some deranged women
The law is clear, men and women must be paid the same for the same job
Now the problem arises when you take the average wage for men and women, men will be higher.
Now the deranged women will cry "see told you so"
They could not be more wrong.
Certain jobs pay more , thats a fact.
These high paying jobs are the dangerous and dirty ones, have to pay a premium to get people to do them
How many women are signing up to work on North Sea Oil Rigs?
How many women are down underground working as miners?
How many women are working on the sewers?
No barriers to women working in these high paying jobs, they simply do not want to do them.
The deranged women who go on about pay gap, think this is not fair, why cant a checkout woman in a shop be paid the same as a North Sea Oil Rig worker?
I will tell you why, there would be no one willing to risk life and limb on a Oil Rig if they could get the same pay working in a supermarket.
Same goes for all the other high paying dangerous and dirty jobs

mvl

But let us do something else instead, before writing any other new statement about magical gender pay gap, have a read at OP or the thread title: this thread was not meant to be discussing about gender pay gap, but about gender gap.
- I would have preferred if we talk about changes to constitution - article 41.2, changes to family law to protect rights of fathers, promoting work/life balance in private companies (even by increasing paternal leave) - in general measures that would support working parents in making balanced decisions when raising their families ...

The thread instead revealed how our thoughts can spiral when talking about gender equality: this in general is interesting to observe too, unless there weren't so many unhelpful posts ... Nothing can be done about that now I am afraid.

Personally, I feel that the greater problem is the encouragement and development of this idea that the two genders (I'm not dealing with Trans or other junk) need to be directly competing. That there is a fight between the genders for control of benefits in society.

I'd be more interested in ways that we can encourage and generate a more egalitarian society with far less focus on gender as a dinstinctive difference between us.

The thing is that I view people as people. Perhaps it's my management background, or being raised by teachers, but I don't automatically acknowledge a persons gender, race, etc when I'm talking to them. I don't factor them in until I've already established the importance of such to the other person, and TBH the best relationships I have with people who similarily don't care too much about such things.

I'd like to see a balance brought to society removing many of the "boosts" or benefits assigned to females so that they can be brought in line with the same benefits that males currently receive.

This is a modern society. It's not a rehash of the old. The impact of technology removes many of the biological advantages that males had, which gave them so much importance in previous generations. So, we live in a time, where both males and females can succeed on their own merits... intelligence, skill acquisition, ambition, etc. An equal and fair society that measures the behavior of the individual... as an individual... not as a representative or cog within the machine that is their gender.

Naturally, I view females based on my personal experiences with them. My mother is a very intelligent and successful woman. I've known many other women throughout my life who were easily mentally stronger or more intelligent than me. And I consider myself to be above the average (again due to experiences in life). I don't see any reason to highlight females and give them greater support than what is given to males. They don't need it. As a gender. As individuals, perhaps, but then that would apply to the male individual also.

Let's start moving back towards equality, genuine equality being the goal, rather than the mutated version that is currently being promoted by organisations..

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's start moving back towards equality, genuine equality being the goal, rather than the mutated version that is currently being promoted by organisations..

Said equality won't keep such organisations in a job.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Said equality won't keep such organisations in a job.

Oh, I'm aware... just as I'm aware that feminism is a multi-billion dollar industry. Hpwever, we need to start reining in this kind of behavior.

Look. I've been writing a personal development book for the last twp years. As such I thoroughly researched the western market for such books, and I realised just how much fake material is sold as being facts. I'd known some was crap because I'd used it myself, but I hadn't know that it was so extensive and worse yet, growing in scope.

We, as a society, need to step beyond this greed that we often see in many areas, which is promoted instead as some kind of virtue. The gender gap is just another indication of this kind of malaise. Encouraging something is that is so destructive within a society that can affect, well, everyone

dvdman1

Hourly gender pay gaps dont exist in Ireland
For every hour worked men and women are paid exactly the same.

Annualised gender pay gaps do exist.

The term "Gender pay gap" is very misleading as it implies deliberate sex discrimination when in fact there are a multitude of reasons why this is, rightly or wrongly.

Whats more relevant to social justice is the annulised pay gaps between lower classes, working class and upper classes, this is more relevant to a fairer society.

carq

Most men just want to get on with it.
There's no benefit of trying to 'reign in this behavior' at the personal level as it is simply not worth the hassle that will come with it.
Women need to lead this change themselves and challenge the false assumptions.
Ironically i think improving men's rights (paternity leave) would actually benefit them and level the playing field.

Well, what tends to happen is that males will typically rein in such behavior in employers, if they feel that they are being discriminated against, or rather the general perception is that they're being tricked or taken advantage of. Most males have an awareness of value regarding the work that they supply to a position, and will "negotiate" to ensure they're being treated fairly. Not all males, mind. Some males are too shy/inexperienced to do this, but most males learn over time to deal with this kind of behavior.

The problem is that society is teaching females to accept things as they are. The creation of safe spaces, and giving women extra rights means that females are even less likely to counter any devaluation of their work. Even before the social effects kick in, females, on average are more "agreeable", seeking to avoid conflict with an authority figure (on a level playing field without higher authority, they don't avoid conflict), and so they're paid less. The problem is that society is conditioning females to expect everything to be handed to them without argument. The introduction of terms like mansplaining, or maninterrupting, reinforce the belief of security against the behavior of males, but workplaces, especially at the professional level are highly competitive places. So, the pursuit of safety for women in the workplace against competition, means that they're ill-equipped for the higher paid positions, which seek individuals with confidence, assertiveness, etc.

Females need to stand out from the shadow of feminism, and seek equality for themselves. To recognise that gender is not a factor because all the attributes that determine salary benefits and promotional success are not based on physical ability. In most jobs that females enter, intellectual skills are dominant. The advantage of physical strength that a male has, doesn't have any bearing on most jobs, and every other aspect can be developed by themselves should they have the desire to do so. So.. personal responsibility for life decisions needs to be placed at the forefront of any discussion. Equality of opportunity is protected under the law for females, and so they have the opportunity to avail of the same opportunities available to males. There will always be some obstacles for a gender. There are obstacles for the male gender too, especially from other males, but we learn to adapt and overcome those obstacles.. because we don't have much choice in the matter.

It should also be recognised that many males never succeed professionally, and don't reach the higher paid jobs. There is a double standard at play here. When it comes to male success, it is collective. The males who don't succeed are ignored, by placing emphasis on the numbers of males in high positions. Thus making it about gender, rather than ability. When it comes to women though, the standard shifts. Rather than examining the reasons for behind why the females who have succeeded... the focus is on finding excuses for those who have failed. So, the double standard is pushed to give an impression of discrimination rather than ability and ambition.