Does anyone know what did Ireland do to improve on gender gap recent year ?

Wibbs

Sarahdunners wrote: »

And I want to ask the men on here:

Can you hand on heart say that you have never experienced, or enjoyed power over women in this country?

Hand on heart, no. Any "power" I've exerted over anyone had no gender bias. Actually if anything I've given more women more leeway than I would a man.

Sarahdunners wrote: »

What is a feminist? I have never heard women ever, talking about feminism. It is a very strange term used online by men.

Who has used the term on this thread? Male posters only.

You speak of paygaps and oppressed/oppressor narratives straight from the Feminist Handbook on Victimhood, subtitled; Women are always agentless victims and men are always to blame. To complete the set I await "rape culture" and "patriarchy" You also studiously and near completely avoid any counter arguments to your position. Which suggests a lack of confidence in same to say the least. So utilising the if it quacks like a duck test seems to fit.

Marcos

Wibbs wrote: »

Hand on heart, no. Any "power" I've exerted over anyone had no gender bias. Actually if anything I've given more women more leeway than I would a man.

You speak of paygaps and oppressed/oppressor narratives straight from the Feminist Handbook on Victimhood, subtitled; Women are always agentless victims and men are always to blame. To complete the set I await "rape culture" and "patriarchy" You also studiously and near completely avoid any counter arguments to your position. Which suggests a lack of confidence in same to say the least. So utilising the if it quacks like a duck test seems to fit.

Exactly, immediately after two posts discrediting the notion of a gender pay gap by explaining that there is an earnings gap due to

differences in the way men and women work and choose to spend their time

; and a video showing those saying there actually is a gender gap in not the best light and unable to answer simple questions about hourly pay, we get such powerful rebuttals such as "What is a feminist?" Or some fella told me that men have power over women. Which has about as much relevance as Enda Kennys man with two pints stories. Deflect, deflect ,deflect.

So that leads me to think, they know that their argument doesn't hold any water and is totally irrelevant, if they can't even stand over it.

bfa1509

Sarahdunners wrote: »

And I want to ask the men on here:

Can you hand on heart say that you have never experienced, or enjoyed power over women in this country?

Every morning when I wake up, I stretch and yawn and wonder to myself how I can exert my privaleged male power over next woman I see.

Nothing puts more wind in my sails than woman yeilding to my every move.

The best part is knowing that there are higher powers that are going to keep it this way for me or improve it.

bunderoon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually quite a few males spread across society do. These claims of a gender pay gap rarely, if ever, consider the males working on the lower ends of the salary brackets. I'm not talking about traditionally male dominated fields with low salaries although they certainly should be considered... however, there are males working in many areas dominated by females.

But the truth is that society itself places pressure on males to earn more money, connecting it to their sex appeal and attractiveness to women. It's little surprise that most males will swing towards the professions that pay the best. I've been seeing more and more articles internationally over the last few years about women complaining about having to date guys less successful financially than them. :rolleyes:

Full agree with you. There may be more males in the last number of years in female dominated fields, but the vast majority are not.
I'm on my phone here but either the above post or my previous post mentioned money and 'status'. I was alluding to the female mating ratings game when writing that.

gw80

Sarahdunners wrote: »

And I want to ask the men on here:

Can you hand on heart say that you have never experienced, or enjoyed power over women in this country?

Could I ask you a hypothetical question?
If an invading army materialised on the horizon ready to cause carnage and destruction to your way of life, if you had the choice to send either the men or the women to defend it who would you send? Hand on heart.
What I'm getting at is men and women are not the same
We are different.
Do we deserve equal rights? Absolutely.

bunderoon

bfa1509 wrote: »

Every morning when I wake up, I stretch and yawn and wonder to myself how I can exert my privaleged male power over next woman I see.

Nothing puts more wind in my sails than woman yeilding to my every move.

The best part is knowing that there are higher powers that are going to keep it this way for me or improve it.

Yeah. Isn't it an awful strange mindset to think that we would be thinking of dominating women as if it was something natural in men.. What an insult to men. Ffs.... it's like some retarded take of some sort of reverse mansplaining (womansplaining). It actually makes me feel a little sick thinking that someone would think, let along write such nonsensical $hite.

storker

bunderoon wrote: »

.... it's like some retarded take of some sort of reverse mansplaining (womansplaining).

Womoaning?

AllForIt

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Cop on? Are you aware of the long long history of men oppressing women in Ireland.

Are you serious?

Men gave women washing machines and sky+. What more do you want?

Silentcorner

As mentioned earlier, the good thing about the gender pay gap is how easy it is to see through it, it doesn't take much effort to see it in real life...

It is one perfect example of how today's well funded Feminist Organisations use data to misrepresent important issues...it must be uncomfortable to the feminists who recognise this as the topic is not going away...it is also easy to spot the weak minded individuals who fall for it.

If it is this simple to misrepresent, largely unchallenged, important data what else is today's Feminist movement misrepresenting, Rape Culture, Domestic Violence...it begs the question, why are we the taxpayer, funding Organisations that are misrepresenting vital data?

For how long is all this viable, will we still be funding The Women's Council in 10 years, what will the causes be then?

Women already enjoy greater access to healthcare, better outcome's in justice, better standards of education....

bunderoon

AllForIt wrote: »

Men gave women washing machines and sky+. What more do you want?

No, no. You don't get it. These fine products only exist because women gave the men the freedom to go out to work as they minded the childer....

All jokes aside, you see the silliness of it all.

greencap

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice if you could have respect for the gender - that gives birth to the entire population.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could give recognition to the huge disparity in workplace accidents and fatalities based on gender.

You devalue the hardship men go through with this pay gap nonsense.

Grab a shovel and a raincoat sweetie, we'll investigate the reason for this "pay gap" thing.

Geuze

Gynoid wrote: »

On the matter of the pension schemes one issue I have (from personal experience) is that there is no contribution recognition from the state for the unpaid but surely valuable work of stay at home mothers. My children now contribute a lot to the state in terms of their innovation, expertise and on a mundane level big chunks of tax. I never made enough in my self employment work for a private pension plan, I had a family before child allowance payments were quite high and after 25 years raising a family I had no pension and am scrabbling now to get enough contributions. Anyway it is a side issue. It also does not fit into any modern activism agenda. C'est la vie.

I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have been answered already.

The SPC system does recognise SAHP, since 1994.

It's called the Homemakers Scheme.

Sarahdunners

Sarahdunners wrote: »

A man said to me in Ireland, only last week,

You state a man said to you this last week, and you're implying it's a common perception. It's not.

Cop on? Are you aware of the long long history of men oppressing women in Ireland.

Are you serious?

I'm 42 years old. As long as I've been an adult, women have had full legal equality in this nation. As long as I've been working professionally, legal changes have been made to surpass equality to protect women in both the workplace and in society itself. In many ways, they're more than equal due to the protections and benefits assigned to them simply due to their sex. Just as we have approved reverse discrimination where it's acceptable to discriminate against males simply to boost women in areas they already have equal opportunity to avail of.

My mother is a primary school principal in a Marist Brothers school. She's been a principal there for 30 years. She fought discrimination from a religious body, and proved herself capable of doing the role even though the parents initially wanted a male principal. Her support came from males within the Marist brothers. Males. Yup. The vast majority of criticism she has received throughout the years has come from other women.

The point is that you have really bought into the patriarchy concept. Like that males are all part of some group who help each other out. Rubbish. Males are naturally competitive with status being linked to leadership roles. There is no collective hive mind or buddy system for males. If anything we're less cooperative than females, and more likely to aggressive compete against each other.

You're probably of a similar age to me, or younger. Not many older female posters on boards. So, in all likelihood, you've never experienced this history of Irish men oppressing women.... so when will you get to stop using historical, but now removed, discrimination as a way to justify your attitudes? [Although it should be mentioned that while historically men were at the top, keeping women under control, they were also keeping other men at the bottom and under control... often employing harsher methods to do so than they would have for females)

I'm also curious whether there's ever an acceptable endgame for women's rights, because it sure as hell, isn't about equality. That's a question and a statement. What is your opinion on the endgame, and what must be achieved for a female, like yourself (Yes, I'm assuming gender), before "equality" has been reached?

Equal opportunity is obviously not enough, so what is it?

Gynoid

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/less-of-a-man-men-boys/

A recent article (by a woman) about misandry.

carq

The endgame point it quite apt and they never go into detail about what they actually want!

Except ‘equality’!

Do they want all wages in a company to be visible to everyone who works there?
Should all jobs have exactly a 50 /50 split of male and female?


Just these 2 things would not work in reality Nd cause absolute chaos. Imagine the amount of infighting in a company if all wages suddenly became visible. What should happen then - all wages get smoothed out so the best performer and worst performer now earn the same? That will antagonise and demotivate anyone productive.

In the case of 50/50 split do we force female school leavers into bricklaying and refuse collection roles? Men into creche snd nursing roles? Freedom of choice is now abandoned and we would live in some dystopian state where your profession is pre determined.

Calina

gw80 wrote: »

Could I ask you a hypothetical question?
If an invading army materialised on the horizon ready to cause carnage and destruction to your way of life, if you had the choice to send either the men or the women to defend it who would you send? Hand on heart.
What I'm getting at is men and women are not the same
We are different.
Do we deserve equal rights? Absolutely.

Actually, I would send both. And the women in the French Resistance would take issue with you suggesting they couldn't have fought against the Nazis.

Christ almighty.

Calina

carq wrote: »

Do they want all wages in a company to be visible to everyone who works there?
Should all jobs have exactly a 50 /50 split of male and female?


Just these 2 things would not work in reality Nd cause absolute chaos. Imagine the amount of infighting in a company if all wages suddenly became visible. What should happen then - all wages get smoothed out so the best performer and worst performer now earn the same? That will antagonise and demotivate anyone productive.

In the case of 50/50 split do we force female school leavers into bricklaying and refuse collection roles? Men into creche snd nursing roles? Freedom of choice is now abandoned and we would live in some dystopian state where your profession is pre determined.

I think transparency in wages would be a brilliant idea. It is depressing to be highly productive and see unproductive men getting promoted ahead of you. This happens to men too.

Additionally there is an issue in how you perceive work. Men don't go into a lot of female jobs because they have lower status. Fix the status - ie pay child care assistants what we pay bricklayer- and more men might do it.

Fanny Wank

Calina wrote: »

Additionally there is an issue in how you perceive work. Men don't go into a lot of female jobs because they have lower status. Fix the status - ie pay child care assistants what we pay bricklayer- and more men might do it.

This is the old "women's work is undervalued" bolloxology. I once read a "newspaper" say the gender pay gap is "proof" that women's work is undervalued (specifically in relation to cleaners). Why are cleaners not paid a very high wage?

- because a lot of cleaners are women & something to do with the patriarchy?
- it's one of the lowest skilled jobs that one can do and there's huge supply?

A more pertenent question (if there even is a question to be asked) is why do more women work as cleaners than men? Awaits some bland response re "status" when IMO it's a choice related to flexibility, ability to work ones chosen hours etc

I was once at a presentation where the percentage of women in management in my profession was branded "Disgraceful". Guess what? Turns out the percentage of male/female managers is similar to the percentage of males/females in the profession.

Fanny Wank

Saw it posted earlier but the Uber example is an outstanding one for showing up why interpretation of a headline statistic is vital. However most people (male & female, in relation to most stats) rarely read past the headline

Cyrus

Calina wrote: »

I think transparency in wages would be a brilliant idea. It is depressing to be highly productive and see unproductive men getting promoted ahead of you. This happens to men too.

Additionally there is an issue in how you perceive work. Men don't go into a lot of female jobs because they have lower status. Fix the status - ie pay child care assistants what we pay bricklayer- and more men might do it.

Outside of the civil service there doesn’t need to be any fairness in pay or transparency it’s up to everyone to negotiate as best they can for themselves and move on if they feel they are undervalued.

Any of this wondering and bitching about someone else who gets paid more and does less , in your opinion, is an utter waste of time and counter productive

Be they Male or female

carq

Calina wrote: »

I think transparency in wages would be a brilliant idea. It is depressing to be highly productive and see unproductive men getting promoted ahead of you. This happens to men too.

Additionally there is an issue in how you perceive work. Men don't go into a lot of female jobs because they have lower status. Fix the status - ie pay child care assistants what we pay bricklayer- and more men might do it.

So its all status related? Dont this being a bricklayer is a status symbol!?

Why dont more women become bricklayers ?
Oppression or personal choice?
Or would it have something to do sith the harsh conditions?

Sarahdunners

Nintendo Lite wrote: »

Have you ever considered that men are more motivated by gaining power? From an evolutionary point of view social status and power confers more comparative advantage to men than women, therefore men are selected for who are motivated by power.

I don't think that men are inherently more motivated by gaining power. It is about how much the society respects women, and allows them to reach higher.

In Finland, the prime minister and most of her top M.P's are female.

My ideal career: I would love to have done a master's in International relations, a second master's in Politics, and worked my way up the Political ladder. I am really intelligent, but I have been called stupid by men in Ireland many times.

I feel in Ireland , it would just be too hard, and I would be too disrespected. I have had men call me stupid loads of times in Ireland. Look at the man on here who said that, "men are just better".I have talked to women in Government here, who said that they are talked down to, and treated really awfully, when they make it into Government.

However, if I had been born in Finland - that would have been the career that I would have really loved.

carq

Sarahdunners wrote: »

I don't think that men are inherently more motivated by gaining power. It is about how much the society respects women, and allows them to reach higher.

In Finland, the prime minister and most of her top M.P's are female.

My ideal career: I would love to have done a master's in International relations, a second master's in Politics, and worked my way up the Political ladder. I am really intelligent, but I have been called stupid by men in Ireland many times.

I feel in Ireland , it would just be too hard, and I would be too disrespected. I have had men call me stupid loads of times in Ireland. Look at the man on here who said that, "men are just better".I have talked to women in Government here, who said that they are talked down to, and treated really awfully, when they make it into Government.

However, if I had been born in Finland - that would have been the career that I would have really loved.

This is turning into a joke now.
So you are oppressed now in ireland and only in finland you would achieve your true potential?
What have you actually done to achieve your goals? Have to done any of the university courses? Have you put yourself forward for public office?


But no, bad bad ‘men’ calling you names is what is holding you back, if you lived in Finland you would be around the cabinet table by now..

Sarahdunners

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You state a man said to you this last week, and you're implying it's a common perception. It's not.



I'm 42 years old. As long as I've been an adult, women have had full legal equality in this nation. As long as I've been working professionally, legal changes have been made to surpass equality to protect women in both the workplace and in society itself. In many ways, they're more than equal due to the protections and benefits assigned to them simply due to their sex. Just as we have approved reverse discrimination where it's acceptable to discriminate against males simply to boost women in areas they already have equal opportunity to avail of.

My mother is a primary school principal in a Marist Brothers school. She's been a principal there for 30 years. She fought discrimination from a religious body, and proved herself capable of doing the role even though the parents initially wanted a male principal. Her support came from males within the Marist brothers. Males. Yup. The vast majority of criticism she has received throughout the years has come from other women.

The point is that you have really bought into the patriarchy concept. Like that males are all part of some group who help each other out. Rubbish. Males are naturally competitive with status being linked to leadership roles. There is no collective hive mind or buddy system for males. If anything we're less cooperative than females, and more likely to aggressive compete against each other.

You're probably of a similar age to me, or younger. Not many older female posters on boards. So, in all likelihood, you've never experienced this history of Irish men oppressing women.... so when will you get to stop using historical, but now removed, discrimination as a way to justify your attitudes? [Although it should be mentioned that while historically men were at the top, keeping women under control, they were also keeping other men at the bottom and under control... often employing harsher methods to do so than they would have for females)

I'm also curious whether there's ever an acceptable endgame for women's rights, because it sure as hell, isn't about equality. That's a question and a statement. What is your opinion on the endgame, and what must be achieved for a female, like yourself (Yes, I'm assuming gender), before "equality" has been reached?

Equal opportunity is obviously not enough, so what is it?

That is a really excellent post. It is really nice to talk to some one , who doesn't call me 'stupid' or 'crazy'.

Thank you!

The end game is where we develop as a society, to sit down with each gender, and ask them what they need in society to improve their lives.

We are not doing that at all, right now! Shouldn't that be the first thing that a developed society does:
1) What do you, as the female gender need
2) What do you, as the male gender need.

Discussion is important.

I have to go, but I will come back later.

Sweetemotion

Sarahdunners wrote: »

However, if I had been born in Finland - that would have been the career that I would have really loved.

Ahh.

storker

Gynoid wrote: »

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/less-of-a-man-men-boys/

A recent article (by a woman) about misandry.

Good article.

bfa1509

Deleted User wrote: »

[Although it should be mentioned that while historically men were at the top, keeping women under control, they were also keeping other men at the bottom and under control... often employing harsher methods to do so than they would have for females)

Some of the women in my workplace are always bitching about how there aren't enough females in the management positions and how men control everything in the company. I always tell them that those men had to compete massively with other men to get into those positions, there wasn't some kind of secret masculine handshake required to get those jobs, they pretty much had to sacrifice any work-life balance they had to get to that position - something that most men or women are not willing to do.

It was ridiculous to be aggrieved by this anyway because we worked in an engineering company (Engineering, which had about a 1:20 female to male ratio in college) and regardless of this statistic, there were more women working in the company!! But they were mad that only 1 of the 4 in management were female. I remember saying to them over lunch: "Only 5% of engineering graduates are women but they make up 25% of the management here. That seems more than fair no?" Their response was "ya, but she's a psychopath!!!". This pretty much summed up the attitude - the men in the company (the company was founded by 4 men) worked hard to get a gender balance and still there was a victimhood mentality amongst a small number of the female employees.

The company was since bought out by a large multinational, which has gender equality quotas it must meet. Almost all the employees have a science or engineering background and the company is struggling to find enough women to maintain the quota. Female graduates seem to get snapped up instantly regardless of their competence. We hire a lot of non-national women (when a national man would be more than suitable...)

I struggle to see any inequality against women in my sector.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sarahdunners wrote: »

That is a really excellent post. It is really nice to talk to some one , who doesn't call me 'stupid' or 'crazy'.

Thank you!

The end game is where we develop as a society, to sit down with each gender, and ask them what they need in society to improve their lives.

We are not doing that at all, right now! Shouldn't that be the first thing that a developed society does:
1) What do you, as the female gender need
2) What do you, as the male gender need.

Discussion is important.

I have to go, but I will come back later.

Discussion IS important - but blaming men and running anecdotes of what a man said to you last week is NOT discussion. If you are genuinely intelligent (and I'm not saying you aren't) you'll be able to discuss this with relevant statistics, observations and reponces to counter-arguments. THAT''S discussion.

There are more than a few successful politicians in Ireland - we've had two female presidents in the last twenty years - so it is possible to be a successful politician in this country and female.

Dick_Swiveller

There is no gender pay gap. Sorry to disappoint you, OP.

Dick_Swiveller

On a related note, Why is it always assumed that having more women in positions of power is axiomatically a good thing? Almost all of our female politicians are an embarrassment to the country. Mary Harney was probably the most inept politician in the history of the State.

This narrative that is constantly peddled by the media (women = great) is getting boring now.