Compulsory retirement and the rise in the State pension age.

Tony EH

JRant wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past them to push the state pension age out even further being honest.

There are those on the right that believe there shouldn't be any state pension at all.

anewme

Tony EH wrote: »

There are those on the right that believe there shouldn't be any state pension at all.

And also the tax free lump sum will go on private pensions.

Tony EH

titan18 wrote: »

My contract says 60 is compulsory retirement. I work in IT so there's no physical reason I can't do my job as I get older.

Your company doesn't care whether you can do your job or not after you reach a certain age. You are easily replaced. Most companies these days aren't even interested in hiring people in their 50's, who they view as over the hill.

There is s huge, huge, problem with ageism in Ireland's workplace and it isn't going to get any better.

Frankly, I'd rather see government tackle that problem rather than just making the state pension and unemployment payments increasingly unobtainable for more and more people.

Phoebas

anewme wrote: »

Private sector workers need to be treated the same as public sector workers and not discriminated against.

When's that starting?

JRant wrote: »

If it needs to be cut then so be it. Expecting people to cope with 3-5 years with nothing coming in after working for 40+ years is disgraceful. We can't keep pushing the age limit out. As it is most people only get a few years to enjoy it.

No government is going to willingly cut the pension rate. It would be suicidal.
I don't think they cut it when the IMF were in town; they're not going to do it as part of a long term policy.

anewme

Phoebas wrote: »

When's that starting?

Well if the public service compulsory retirement rate is 70, private sector needs to match.

X111111111111

punisher5112 wrote: »

They want everyone to work till they die.

Many jobs one shouldnt go past 60 such as driving trucks or buses as they are extremely unhealthy as it is.

FG 101

Tony EH

anewme wrote: »

Plus, people are getting younger, physically and mentally.

People are living longer. Not necessarily getting younger. However, most people will still feel the age in themselves. Their eyesight will deteriorate, their bodies will stiffen up, etc. Nobody escapes that.

Pushing out the retirement age to 70 only means that you end up with people of that age either having to sign on if they qualify (which is becoming harder and harder to do), or dip into their savings, assuming they have any and enough to last til they reach the magic number.

anewme

Tony EH wrote: »

People are living longer. Not necessarily getting younger. However, most people will still feel the age in themselves. Their eyesight will deteriorate, their bodies will stiffen up, etc. Nobody escapes that.

Pushing out the retirement age to 70 only means that you end up with people of that age either having to sign on if they qualify (which is becoming harder and harder to do), or dip into their savings, assuming they have any and enough to last til they reach the magic number.

I'm totally with you here and it's an issue for a very close friend at the moment who will be retiring shortly. Its certainly opened my eyes about respect for someone who started work at 15 and will have worked for one employer for 45 years.

For me, I'm hoping to go at 65, but will be pissed off getting nothing coming in for 2 years, ( i already know I wont qualify)after working since I was 18.

Tony EH

anewme wrote: »

I'm totally with you here and it's an issue for a very close friend at the moment who will be retiring shortly. Its certainly opened my eyes about respect for someone who started work at 15.

For me, I'm hoping to go at 65, but will be pissed off getting nothing coming in for 2 years, ( i already know I wont qualify)after working since I was 18.

The way it stands at the moment, you will get 9 months of unemployment benefit, and the social welfare (or whatever it will be called by then) will hound you to try an find a new job. Then, if your savings are over a specific amount you will get nothing and will be expected to dip into those savings.

But, by the time you are 65, I doubt that the situation will be as it is now.

It will, more than likely, be much worse.

JRant

Phoebas wrote: »

When's that starting?


No government is going to willingly cut the pension rate. It would be suicidal.
I don't think they cut it when the IMF were in town; they're not going to do it as part of a long term policy.

They may not willingly do it but thens are going to come to a head sooner rather than later.

JRant

Tony EH wrote: »

The way it stands at the moment, you will get 9 months of unemployment benefit, and the social welfare (or whatever it will be called by then) will hound you to try an find a new job. Then, if your savings are over a specific amount you will get nothing and will be expected to dip into those savings.

But, by the time you are 65, I doubt that the situation will be as it is now.

It will, more than likely, be much worse.

As AD rightly pointed out, they want rid of older people and this is a way to force people's hands.

elperello

I saw it in the US older people hardly able to make ends meet at he end of their working life having to take all kinds of low paid jobs to get by.

They are doing it here by stealth on the basis that only a relatively low number are affected each year in relation to the total work force.

X111111111111

Disgusting to imagine working your entire life and putting savings away for retirement only to be told you have to use them as through no fault of own you can't claim the dole when forced to retire. At the same time if you've done f u c k all and claimed dole for years not saving a cent you can still get full dole at same age. Although i suppose it's funny and we deserve it for voting these same crooks in year after year and letting them ride us.

Dothebartman

I decide to retire at 55 in Ireland and have been paying into a pension all my life with employer contributions.

When can i legally start to draw down on my private pension. Would you have to wait till 68?



This is just a scenario above. I am currently working in the states and i can take out at any age with a 10% fine.
Also can retire at 55 with no fines if i'm with the same company.

Just wondering about Ireland is all.

anewme

X111111111111 wrote: »

Disgusting to imagine working your entire life and putting savings away for retirement only to be told you have to use them as through no fault of own you can't claim the dole when forced to retire. At the same time if you've done f u c k all and claimed dole for years not saving a cent you can still get full dole at same age. Although i suppose it's funny and we deserve it for voting these same crooks in year after year and letting them ride us.

There are a limited number of who people can vote for. It's a or b and they are both useless, or even worse than useless.

Agree its disgusting how workers are treated after a life of working and trying to save a bit to enjoy retirement.

Even expecting people to sign in the dole after working for 40 - 50 years is a disgrace.

Tony EH

X111111111111 wrote: »

Disgusting to imagine working your entire life and putting savings away for retirement only to be told you have to use them as through no fault of own you can't claim the dole when forced to retire. At the same time if you've done f u c k all and claimed dole for years not saving a cent you can still get full dole at same age. Although i suppose it's funny and we deserve it for voting these same crooks in year after year and letting them ride us.

No, we don't. People need to stop placing blame for a government's shitty decisions on ordinary people. No party campaigns for election on a platform of making things shit for people and nobody votes anybody in hoping that the party they put their mark besides will make things shitier either.

The blame lies solely with the party in government who, when they get to power, reveal what they really had in store all along.

X111111111111

Tony EH wrote: »

No, we don't. People need to stop placing blame for a government's shitty decisions on ordinary people. No party campaigns for election on a platform of making things shit for people and nobody votes anybody in hoping that the party they put their mark besides will make things shitier either.

The blame lies solely with the party in government who, when they get to power, reveal what they really had in store all along.

And people still vote for them. That's the electorates fault.

anewme

X111111111111 wrote: »

And people still vote for them. That's the electorates fault.

Who else do they vote for? Theres an option of a or b.

Masala

So.. if I retire at 65 when my State pension is 68 for me. Will my company pension go against me if I go on the dole.

anewme

Masala wrote: »

So.. if I retire at 65 when my State pension is 68 for me. Will my company pension go against me if I go on the dole.

Yep.

You get employment benefit for 9 months and after that you get employment benefit, which is means tested.

If you have taken a pension lump sum, its likely you will qualify for little or no assistance.

mikeym

I honestly dont get the raising of the retirement age.

Yes people are living longer but as the older you get the chances are you are going to get sick or get an illness.

Once a TD steps into the Dail they board the gravy train and they lose touch with the common man. Allowances, Expenses and the perks are great.

Jinglejangle69

So people are living longer yet we should keep the pension age the same?????????

Doesn’t compute.

TimeToShine

mikeym wrote: »

I honestly dont get the raising of the retirement age.

Yes people are living longer but as the older you get the chances are you are going to get sick or get an illness.

Once a TD steps into the Dail they board the gravy train and they lose touch with the common man. Allowances, Expenses and the perks are great.

They're raising it because there simply is not enough money in the pot to pay all of the incoming retirees and ensure that the current crop of workers also get paid out. The ratio of workers to retirees in Ireland will be 2:1 in 2050, it's around 6:1 now. Raising the age is a cop out and the easiest way to kick the can down the road, next to lowering the pension rate itself and lastly discriminating against those with private pensions, all of which we will see in our lifetimes.

I wouldn't fancy being 25 and maxing out a pension, even with generous work contributions.

Jinglejangle69

Nintendo Lite wrote: »

How much longer are people living today compared to 20 years ago, 40 years ago, 60 years ago?

60 years ago?

At least 10 years.

Jinglejangle69

Like what is the problem?

Something needs to be done about the pension crisis coming down the line.

If we done nothing now and it hit us in 20 years people would be giving out we should have done something now.

Can’t win.

Go in job seekers and you will get nearly the same each week.

anewme

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Like what is the problem?

Something needs to be done about the pension crisis coming down the line.

If we done nothing now and it hit us in 20 years people would be giving out we should have done something now.

Can’t win.

People are oblivious that this train has now left the station.

anewme

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Like what is the problem?

Something needs to be done about the pension crisis coming down the line.

If we done nothing now and it hit us in 20 years people would be giving out we should have done something now.

Can’t win.

Go in job seekers and you will get nearly the same each week.

If you have a private pension you more than likely wont get job seekers allowance as any savings or income you have will be deducted.

Jinglejangle69

anewme wrote: »

If you have a private pension you more than likely wont get job seekers allowance as any savings or income you have will be deducted.

So what’s the solution?

X111111111111

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Like what is the problem?

Something needs to be done about the pension crisis coming down the line.

If we done nothing now and it hit us in 20 years people would be giving out we should have done something now.

Can’t win.

Go in job seekers and you will get nearly the same each week.

You won't get jobseekers if you have saved for retirement. Also in 20-25 years time if you have a private pension that is enough to sustain you then kiss your public pension goodbye unless you are part of the untouchable public sector.

JRant

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So people are living longer yet we should keep the pension age the same?????????

Doesn’t compute.

People are living longer, on average. However, the important part is quality of life. Having 65-70 to enjoy travel etc is a much better option than trying to do it at 70+. Human beings seriously slow down in their 70s and quality of life diminishes significantly.

blackbox

anewme wrote: »

If you have a private pension you more than likely wont get job seekers allowance as any savings or income you have will be deducted.

If you have a private pension that disqualifies you from JSB it is deemed that you don't need the JSB.

Why should government give you money if you have enough of an income already?

Dothebartman

blackbox wrote: »

If you have a private pension that disqualifies you from JSB it is deemed that you don't need the JSB.

Why should government give you money if you have enough of an income already?

At what age can you retire and start making withdrawals from your private pension?

anewme

blackbox wrote: »

If you have a private pension that disqualifies you from JSB it is deemed that you don't need the JSB.

Why should government give you money if you have enough of an income already?

Deemed by who exactly?

Mrs OBumble

anewme wrote: »

Deemed by who exactly?

Deemed by the government.

It's the same if you become unemployed at any age: you get jobseekers benefit for a limited time if you have enough stamps. But if you don't or once they run out, jobseekers allowance is means tested. You if have cash above 20k or other income or property that you own but aren't personally using, or are co-habiting with someone who is working, then the amount you get is rapidly reduced.




Expect to see euthanasia on the agenda in Ireland soon. It will be sold as a compassionate option. Really it's about reducing spending on end-of-life care.

Arthur Daley

The other issue facing us is the likes of google have been flagging for a few years now that up to 1 in every 2 jobs will disappear by 2030. Through AI, machine learning etc. Many 50 and 60 year olds will find it close to impossible to compete in that labour market. Some will do well no doubt, and we will be constantly reminded of this. But if they were honest, a lot will be on the scrapheap.

thesimpsons

https://siptu.agitate.ie/act/support-the-stop67-campaign/

A campaign has been started to get this new age repealed. Its worth gettting behind this.

Phoebas

thesimpsons wrote: »

https://siptu.agitate.ie/act/support-the-stop67-campaign/

A campaign has been started to get this new age repealed. Its worth gettting behind this.

They're looking for 500 signatures.
Seems a bit of a pathetic effort given that they represent 200k workers.

But then again, they're not proposing an alternative solution.

thesimpsons

Agree they not suggestng an alternative, but it is a start on the discussions. I cant think of one either other than just lower it again until if/when they come up with a realistic idea to raise the age in the future. I knew years ago when the age was raised some stop gap was going to have to come into play to cover the non earnings between 65 and 67/8, but naively did think there would be a solution offered by the time the age change came into affect. Really does not look like this is even being thought about in government. I've said it many people in the age brracket, and alot arent aware that they will be left adrift financially. The petition might now raise awareness of this. Which bright spark in govt thought this one up ?

anewme

thesimpsons wrote: »

https://siptu.agitate.ie/act/support-the-stop67-campaign/

A campaign has been started to get this new age repealed. Its worth gettting behind this.

I'm not a SIPTU worker, so I would not have known about this, so thanks for letting me know.

I'm totally behind it, it is an election issue.

They will get a lot more than 500 signatures, its nearly there already.

puppieperson1

The secret is never list the dates you went to college or secondary school or your date of birth on any CV then you get an interview the rest is up to you . they work out your age based on these things so dont let them also get off facebook! you can get work in your late 50's & early 60's

Phoebas

thesimpsons wrote: »

Agree they not suggestng an alternative, but it is a start on the discussions. I cant think of one either other than just lower it again until if/when they come up with a realistic idea to raise the age in the future.

I don't think we can afford to kick this an down the road for too much longer.
Look - the pensions time bomb has been visible on the horizon for ages now and the increase in the pension age isn't exactly new, so I think that if SIPTU want to lead a campaign on this now, it's not unreasonable to ask them to suggest workable alternatives. Simply rejecting what is already in place isn't going to fly.

iamwhoiam

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Deemed by the government.

It's the same if you become unemployed at any age: you get jobseekers benefit for a limited time if you have enough stamps. But if you don't or once they run out, jobseekers allowance is means tested. You if have cash above 20k or other income or property that you own but aren't personally using, or are co-habiting with someone who is working, then the amount you get is rapidly reduced.




Expect to see euthanasia on the agenda in Ireland soon. It will be sold as a compassionate option. Really it's about reducing spending on end-of-life care.

Give me a pill anyday if I am terminally ill or in pain or just weary and want out
It is not compassionate to keep people alive when all they want is to be at peace

BuboBubo

Can't see the government doing anything to change the situation myself. If you're out the door aged 65 it's tough sh1t.

It's cheaper to pay means tested unemployment benefits for 2/3 years than the slightly higher pension payments. It's a win for them.

anewme

BuboBubo wrote: »

It's cheaper to pay means tested unemployment benefits for 2/3 years than the slightly higher pension payments. It's a win for them.

Because the reality is that most people would get zero if it were means tested.

thesimpsons

anewme wrote: »

I'm not a SIPTU worker, so I would not have known about this, so thanks for letting me know.

I'm totally behind it, it is an election issue.

They will get a lot more than 500 signatures, its nearly there already.

I'm not SIPTU either & never even saw it was a SIPTU backed thing, someone shared it to me so I'm trying to share it out as much as I can.

I've worked and paid every tax going since age of 16 and will get screwed over by this gap but I have numerous family members and acquaintances who have never contributed to taxes or worked and they will continue to see no real difference in their income. many tax injustices over the years have annoyed me but this one is really getting on my goat.

mossie11

anewme wrote: »

If you have a private pension you more than likely wont get job seekers allowance as any savings or income you have will be deducted.

I wonder can your employer delay paying your pension for two years. i.e. you retire at 65 but your private pension would not kick in until you are 67?

Arthur Daley

Maximum cost of this? 800m to 1bn per annum. Out of a total budget of 70 odd billion. It's easily doable by achieving cost savings elsewhere. Could walk into every govt. department and find 1bn in spurious services within a week.

The truth is there is no political will to this. There is no leadership to take hard decisions.

The country is supposedly booming and running a deficit. Under a supposedly 'conservative' government. It's a joke.

elperello

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't think we can afford to kick this an down the road for too much longer.
Look - the pensions time bomb has been visible on the horizon for ages now and the increase in the pension age isn't exactly new, so I think that if SIPTU want to lead a campaign on this now, it's not unreasonable to ask them to suggest workable alternatives. Simply rejecting what is already in place isn't going to fly.

Pensions time bomb is just a sound bite.

Everybody needs a certain amount of money to survive. There is enough to go around.

The people will be there we just need a properly thought out fair system to make sure that they will get what they need.

As for SIPTU their campaign has two simple goals 1- Drop the 67 proposal 2- Start a debate leading to setting up a fair system.

They are deliberately not confusing the message by being prescriptive about the solution.

I would say their campaign is well thought out and worthy of support.

Arrival

Ah but don't worry everyone, any investments you've made with the hopes of further helping yourself when you're older will only be subjected to 33% CGT, very fair stuff altogether

We're a nation of subservient, docile, apathetic morons. But ahhh sure, it'll be granddd

Nermal

A lot of complete dopes posting here that are polishing off the last of the sherry rather early in the day.

JSB claimed at 65 bridges the gap to claiming your pension. It is not means-tested.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/older_jobseekers.html

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-06-11/869/