The darkness of legal separation for a father with young children

LegacyUser

First, I apologise for the length and, second, if another forum would be able to garner additional insight, experience and help please feel free to move. Thank you.

I'm desperately lonely in this marriage to a woman with whom I've been for 16 years. Ever since we had our first child, the relationship has declined. It's as if the day the first child was born was the day this relationship began to die. It will be 15 years until my youngest child will be 18, when apparently then I can be free from dealing with my wife. I cannot take another 15 years of this world where everything revolves around the children and I don't exist as a man with emotional, sexual and companionship needs. There is no emotional balance in this obsession. The coldness, the resolute determination to destroy any time together with a worry about the children. The coldness is killing me. It is false dawn after false dawn - each and every time I try to emotionally connect some worry about the children intervenes. I've never been with another woman since I met my wife, and I couldn't live with having an affair - aside from not feeling ethically comfortable with that, it sounds like it would only make everything infinitely messier.

Today somebody sensed things weren't going well and mentioned it to a divorced mutual friend who just got off the phone to me to tell me to "suck it up" and that "far away fields are greener" as he endured well over a decade of having to deal with his ex after the separation and this made his life "hell on earth". I had never even thought of that - I had thought I would be free, albeit poorer, and rights/responsibilities would be made clear in law so that would minimise my contact with their mother. In hindsight, given her obsessive nature, it is almost certain that there would be an anxiety-charged interference in every aspect of my post-marriage life under the guise of "concern" for the children. I expect there will be huge financial penalties on me - even though my salary is less, €60,000 v. €85,000 - and I will probably be the one who must leave the family home (the mortgage for which consumes 55% of my nett income as we each pay 50% of the mortgage, while childcare consumes another 17%). If everything were to be divided 50/50 - which apparently is very unlikely for a father in Ireland - then I feel I could deal with the reduced financial circumstances by moving to a cheaper area, etc. I could start again in that scenario, I feel.

However, the thought that even when I'd be "free" from this marriage I would be more a prisoner than ever is putting me into a uniquely dark place today. I've a tear rolling down my cheek just writing that, even though I'm a male in his mid-40s. I'm overwhelmed by my probable future as until now I always believed I had more power over my own life than I'm now experiencing. I feel decidedly trapped, now - as I have felt to a distinctive, but lesser, degree before today's phone conversation.

I know I could stay in this marriage and just go from day to day and she'd be content with that "it's entirely about the children" approach - shudder - but this married life of coldness is breaking my spirit. I know from years of experience now that she is much, much harder than I so I've gone beyond the war of attrition stage.

I have initiated marriage counselling, and she knows how I feel but recurrently tells me I need mental help and should meet other friends, as if the latter is comparable with the needs a man has in his wife. That essentially is the tactic that dismisses me and absolves her for any onus to show me love and give us time together. The rest of my life is going well - it is entirely my need for intimacy which is not being met. While the following are words usually associated with women and their needs, I don't care anymore: I need love, kindness, softness, gentleness and somebody to hold me once again. It is now so long since I've felt them, and I am empty. Life is too short, and I feel that more and more each day now.

I want to vanish, to just leave Ireland and my secure job if this unfreedom is my future but even if I leave this house for a hostel for some nights as a cry for help I lose rights to this home so each and every night I continue to stay here. That desire to disappear from Ireland altogether is now stronger than ever. But my beautiful little, fun-loving kids really need their dad, and they make that clear each single solitary day. It would very much suit me to believe they don't need me, but they absolutely do and nobody will be able to undermine that. Consequently, however, all the permutations here seem to have my ending up in really dark places until the youngest child is 18/for the next 15 years.

While I can imagine plenty of happily separated men without young children, is there such a person as a happily separated father of young children? Is there any light to be seen here? This is by far the darkest place I've ever been, and it just seems to be getting darker. Any constructive perspective will be most appreciated. Thank you.

kerryjack

You have opptions but you can't see them clearly. Seperation is common enough nowadays. A friend of mine recently separated they are 2 professionals we got a bit of a shock at first we had no idea but they said it's been coming with a while and started planning for it.

Kids are slightly older than yours I don't think there was any afairs or any thing but they have decided to split and move on and let each other have another go if they wish. They were able to buy a second property and he has the kids the weekend. Sitting down and having a grown up conversation with herself and tell her where your at and see can ye get away out with as little carnage as possible.

smelly sock

isthereanylight? wrote: »

First, I apologise for the length and, second, if another forum would be able to garner additional insight, experience and help please feel free to move. Thank you.

I'm desperately lonely in this marriage to a woman with whom I've been for 16 years. Ever since we had our first child, the relationship has declined. It's as if the day the first child was born was the day this relationship began to die. It will be 15 years until my youngest child will be 18, when apparently then I can be free from dealing with my wife. I cannot take another 15 years of this world where everything revolves around the children and I don't exist as a man with emotional, sexual and companionship needs. There is no emotional balance in this obsession. The coldness, the resolute determination to destroy any time together with a worry about the children. The coldness is killing me. It is false dawn after false dawn - each and every time I try to emotionally connect some worry about the children intervenes. I've never been with another woman since I met my wife, and I couldn't live with having an affair - aside from not feeling ethically comfortable with that, it sounds like it would only make everything infinitely messier.

Today somebody sensed things weren't going well and mentioned it to a divorced mutual friend who just got off the phone to me to tell me to "suck it up" and that "far away fields are greener" as he endured well over a decade of having to deal with his ex after the separation and this made his life "hell on earth". I had never even thought of that - I had thought I would be free, albeit poorer, and rights/responsibilities would be made clear in law so that would minimise my contact with their mother. In hindsight, given her obsessive nature, it is almost certain that there would be an anxiety-charged interference in every aspect of my post-marriage life under the guise of "concern" for the children. I expect there will be huge financial penalties on me - even though my salary is less, €60,000 v. €85,000 - and I will probably be the one who must leave the family home (the mortgage for which consumes 55% of my nett income as we each pay 50% of the mortgage, while childcare consumes another 17%). If everything were to be divided 50/50 - which apparently is very unlikely for a father in Ireland - then I feel I could deal with the reduced financial circumstances by moving to a cheaper area, etc. I could start again in that scenario, I feel.

However, the thought that even when I'd be "free" from this marriage I would be more a prisoner than ever is putting me into a uniquely dark place today. I've a tear rolling down my cheek just writing that, even though I'm a male in his mid-40s. I'm overwhelmed by my probable future as until now I always believed I had more power over my own life than I'm now experiencing. I feel decidedly trapped, now - as I have felt to a distinctive, but lesser, degree before today's phone conversation.

I know I could stay in this marriage and just go from day to day and she'd be content with that "it's entirely about the children" approach - shudder - but this married life of coldness is breaking my spirit. I know from years of experience now that she is much, much harder than I so I've gone beyond the war of attrition stage.

I have initiated marriage counselling, and she knows how I feel but recurrently tells me I need mental help and should meet other friends, as if the latter is comparable with the needs a man has in his wife. That essentially is the tactic that dismisses me and absolves her for any onus to show me love and give us time together. The rest of my life is going well - it is entirely my need for intimacy which is not being met. While the following are words usually associated with women and their needs, I don't care anymore: I need love, kindness, softness, gentleness and somebody to hold me once again. It is now so long since I've felt them, and I am empty. Life is too short, and I feel that more and more each day now.

I want to vanish, to just leave Ireland and my secure job if this unfreedom is my future but even if I leave this house for a hostel for some nights as a cry for help I lose rights to this home so each and every night I continue to stay here. That desire to disappear from Ireland altogether is now stronger than ever. But my beautiful little, fun-loving kids really need their dad, and they make that clear each single solitary day. It would very much suit me to believe they don't need me, but they absolutely do and nobody will be able to undermine that. Consequently, however, all the permutations here seem to have my ending up in really dark places until the youngest child is 18/for the next 15 years.

While I can imagine plenty of happily separated men without young children, is there such a person as a happily separated father of young children? Is there any light to be seen here? This is by far the darkest place I've ever been, and it just seems to be getting darker. Any constructive perspective will be most appreciated. Thank you.

You'll be grand.

It can always be worse OP.

Get out and enjoy life.

Kingkong

You did the right thing getting marriage counseling see where it goes first. I am 100% sure she know this is coming too. Kids are resilient and adapt. They much prefer a happy Dad than a Dad who pretends everything is okay. I think you need to put an exit strategy in place. Start putting some of your own money aside and sit down with a solicitor and find out the facts.

smelly sock

kerryjack wrote: »

You have opptions but you can't see them clearly. Seperation is common enough nowadays. A friend of mine recently separated they are 2 professionals we got a bit of a shock at first we had no idea but they said it's been coming with a while and started planning for it.

Kids are slightly older than yours I don't think there was any afairs or any thing but they have decided to split and move on and let each other have another go if they wish. They were able to buy a second property and he has the kids the weekend. Sitting down and having a grown up conversation with herself and tell her where your at and see can ye get away out with as little carnage as possible.

Perfect world scenario.

Its the man who ends up paying a mortgage for the next 30 years for a house he wont be living in you'd feel sorry for

worded

smelly sock wrote: »

Perfect world scenario.

Its the man who ends up paying a mortgage for the next 30 years for a house he wont be living in you'd feel sorry for

Seek legal advice, you can be sure she has.

You are looking for light

Here is some ...

You have a few kids. Some people can never have any

You both have good jobs

You have options, all of which are painful but you will choose your path

You will get through this OP

kerryjack

smelly sock wrote: »

Perfect world scenario.

Its the man who ends up paying a mortgage for the next 30 years for a house he wont be living in you'd feel sorry for

Yes It was easy because they could afford a second property and property is still cheap down here, you can still get a nice semi D in a bog standard town for 180 K. The problem you have is in this bog standard town the woman are scarce and the few that are knocking about are single for a reason. Luckily enough the nearest houre house is in limerick only an hour's drive away and he can have 2 then for an hour for a 100 quid and he will never again have to listen to a women complain.

zerosugarbuzz

isthereanylight? wrote: »

First, I apologise for the length and, second, if another forum would be able to garner additional insight, experience and help please feel free to move. Thank you.

I'm desperately lonely in this marriage to a woman with whom I've been for 16 years. Ever since we had our first child, the relationship has declined. It's as if the day the first child was born was the day this relationship began to die. It will be 15 years until my youngest child will be 18, when apparently then I can be free from dealing with my wife. I cannot take another 15 years of this world where everything revolves around the children and I don't exist as a man with emotional, sexual and companionship needs. There is no emotional balance in this obsession. The coldness, the resolute determination to destroy any time together with a worry about the children. The coldness is killing me. It is false dawn after false dawn - each and every time I try to emotionally connect some worry about the children intervenes. I've never been with another woman since I met my wife, and I couldn't live with having an affair - aside from not feeling ethically comfortable with that, it sounds like it would only make everything infinitely messier.

Today somebody sensed things weren't going well and mentioned it to a divorced mutual friend who just got off the phone to me to tell me to "suck it up" and that "far away fields are greener" as he endured well over a decade of having to deal with his ex after the separation and this made his life "hell on earth". I had never even thought of that - I had thought I would be free, albeit poorer, and rights/responsibilities would be made clear in law so that would minimise my contact with their mother. In hindsight, given her obsessive nature, it is almost certain that there would be an anxiety-charged interference in every aspect of my post-marriage life under the guise of "concern" for the children. I expect there will be huge financial penalties on me - even though my salary is less, €60,000 v. €85,000 - and I will probably be the one who must leave the family home (the mortgage for which consumes 55% of my nett income as we each pay 50% of the mortgage, while childcare consumes another 17%). If everything were to be divided 50/50 - which apparently is very unlikely for a father in Ireland - then I feel I could deal with the reduced financial circumstances by moving to a cheaper area, etc. I could start again in that scenario, I feel.

However, the thought that even when I'd be "free" from this marriage I would be more a prisoner than ever is putting me into a uniquely dark place today. I've a tear rolling down my cheek just writing that, even though I'm a male in his mid-40s. I'm overwhelmed by my probable future as until now I always believed I had more power over my own life than I'm now experiencing. I feel decidedly trapped, now - as I have felt to a distinctive, but lesser, degree before today's phone conversation.

I know I could stay in this marriage and just go from day to day and she'd be content with that "it's entirely about the children" approach - shudder - but this married life of coldness is breaking my spirit. I know from years of experience now that she is much, much harder than I so I've gone beyond the war of attrition stage.

I have initiated marriage counselling, and she knows how I feel but recurrently tells me I need mental help and should meet other friends, as if the latter is comparable with the needs a man has in his wife. That essentially is the tactic that dismisses me and absolves her for any onus to show me love and give us time together. The rest of my life is going well - it is entirely my need for intimacy which is not being met. While the following are words usually associated with women and their needs, I don't care anymore: I need love, kindness, softness, gentleness and somebody to hold me once again. It is now so long since I've felt them, and I am empty. Life is too short, and I feel that more and more each day now.

I want to vanish, to just leave Ireland and my secure job if this unfreedom is my future but even if I leave this house for a hostel for some nights as a cry for help I lose rights to this home so each and every night I continue to stay here. That desire to disappear from Ireland altogether is now stronger than ever. But my beautiful little, fun-loving kids really need their dad, and they make that clear each single solitary day. It would very much suit me to believe they don't need me, but they absolutely do and nobody will be able to undermine that. Consequently, however, all the permutations here seem to have my ending up in really dark places until the youngest child is 18/for the next 15 years.

While I can imagine plenty of happily separated men without young children, is there such a person as a happily separated father of young children? Is there any light to be seen here? This is by far the darkest place I've ever been, and it just seems to be getting darker. Any constructive perspective will be most appreciated. Thank you.

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

The chan chan man

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

Selfish?! No! You’ve no idea until you’re in this situation. Some women think men are tough, without needs etc. I’ve been in a similar situation, feeling so touch starved you feel like you could literally kill someone. I often feel like i was part of some WW2 style nazi experiment where you’d see what happens to someone if you starve them of touch...

There is no easy answer OP. Its a **** situation caused by a stupid ****ty wife who took the relationship for granted and forgot that she’s a wife as well as a mother.

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

Yeah, every man is selfish for wanting/needing love.

It's absolutely amazing that my wife dares to care for, me, even though we have kids. I mean how dare she, I'm not supposed exist anymore.



What a load of fvcking nonsense, from you. If you don't look after yourself (and each other) how do you think you'll be able to look after the kids.

They have a duty of care to each other

And if your wife is already making exit plans...

There are dozens of support groups, for women, for exactly this. Advising on how to maximise their take on exit. Every argument is recorded, every time you give out to the kids, overtime outside the house etc.

Be prepared for this. You will more than likely be portrayed as abusive by her legal team.

Wibbs

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

What the actually hell? I can't quite believe I just read that. Christ.

Now in any relationship, there are three truths, his, hers and the actual reality, but in the absence of any other truth the guy is describing a loveless marriage that seems to only exist "for the children" as far as his wife is concerned. Reduced to a sperm donor and Facebook father figure. Read the OP again as if it were a woman describing a marriage without basic intimacy and tell me you'd be nearly so dismissive. Would you tell her they were "depressed"(which seems to be the all too easy goto explanation for many), would you describe her as selfish, would you describe her as the problem and not being easy to live with? I bloody doubt it. And you'd be dead right not to. I've known both men and women in such setups and it's a purgatory with occasional spells of hell. Oh he's likely depressed alright, but as a reaction not a catalyst or cause for the present circumstances.

I'd echo others above and seek legal advice and pronto. You've the advantage of a good job so you do have options, but you need to work out how to navigate them. TBH and IMHO marriage counselling at this stage is a waste of time, energy and money. Like I say I've known others in your situation and there's a point where marriage counselling is about as much use as a chocolate teapot, simply because one party doesn't care, nor want to change and wants to keep the status quo going, sometimes you'd see a temporary shift when that status quo was looking shaky, but in my experience it was only ever temporary.

Daisy78

kerryjack wrote: »

Yes It was easy because they could afford a second property and property is still cheap down here, you can still get a nice semi D in a bog standard town for 180 K. The problem you have is in this bog standard town the woman are scarce and the few that are knocking about are single for a reason. Luckily enough the nearest houre house is in limerick only an hour's drive away and he can have 2 then for an hour for a 100 quid and he will never again have to listen to a women complain.

I think you need to read the post again, it isn’t merely about sex, he has other needs which are not being met and a trip to the local “houre” house as you put won’t solve his problems I’m afraid.

Op you don’t sound selfish to me but you do come across as being deeply unhappy. I’m neither male nor married and don’t have kids so perhaps can’t offer the perspective you are looking for but thought I’d post anyway.

You say you initiated (or tried to) marriage counselling, how did your wife respond to that, did she dismiss it out of hand, if so what was her reasoning? Is she aware of how seriously you feel about this and that you are contemplating separation? Do you think counselling would actually lead to her making some positive changes or is she likely to just go through the motions? The excessive focus on your children does come across as her attempting to deflect attention away from your relationship. What happens when you try to initiate intimacy? By that I mean hand holding, a hug, the small stuff. If she is not receptive then there is a bigger problem here that can’t be attributed to the children. She may be unhappy herself but for her own reasons has decided not to confront the issues in your marriage. I think you need to have that discussion again, lay your cards on the table and say that you don’t see a future if she is not willing to address the intimacy issues in your marriage.

If she is not willing to deal with it then you have a hard decision to make. Your friend is right in saying that the grass is not necessarily greener but as with a lot of things in life separation is different (or moreso it’s consequences) for everyone. It’s expensive (you will need deep pockets to cover legal fees), it’s protracted and it’s lonely. I have friends who are going through it and it’s not a straightforward easy process by any means. At the end of the day though you have to ask what you want out of this process? Is it to live a separate life from your wife with access to your children regardless of any future relationship you may have with her or indeed your children? Is it to separate in the hope of meeting someone else who can provide the things you are looking for? A new relationship might not materialise and you may need to be okay with that, would you be happy to separate knowing you could find yourself on your own, perhaps not indefinitely but for a period of time? Only you know what you want out of this whole process and what sacrifices you would be willing to make to get to that point.

There is a Separation and Divorce forum on here which might be worth checking into, you might get the perspective you are looking for from people who have gone through all of this.

The chan chan man

A trip to a brazzer will solve nothing. OP wants to be wanted.. I could have written his post myself.

kerryjack

The chan chan man wrote: »

A trip to a brazzer will solve nothing. OP wants to be wanted.. I could have written his post myself.

I wouldn't know but a lad told me an hour there would straighten every bone in your body.

lawred2

worded wrote: »

Seek legal advice, you can be sure she has.

You are looking for light

Here is some ...

You have a few kids. Some people can never have any

You both have good jobs

You have options, all of which are painful but you will choose your path

You will get through this OP

How can you be sure she has got legal advice? There is no way on Earth you can know that for definite so I fail to see how it helps the OP.

worded

lawred2 wrote: »

How can you be sure she has got legal advice? There is no way on Earth you can know that for definite so I fail to see how it helps the OP.

OK let’s say I’m wrong and you are correct she hasn’t got legal advise. There is still no harm in him seeking legal advise and knowing his rights.
In that way I’m helping the OP.

The chan chan man

kerryjack wrote: »

I wouldn't know but a lad told me an hour there would straighten every bone in your body.

Well.... while it won’t fix his problem, he can still have fun!

seamus

Don't assume your wife has gotten legal advice or sought help from outside. That's the word of the cynics out there. Some of the advice on this thread is awful. Don't be thankful for what you've got, keep your head down and stick it out. That's the road to a miserable and early grave.

She's clearly aware that the marriage has gone cold and that you're struggling, but that doesn't mean she's preparing for your (or her) exit.

Indeed her suggestion that you should seek help and more social outlets suggests that she's not looking for the marriage to end, but is seeking out ways for you to become content again. Possibly misguided ways, but it shows that she's trying.

The question here really is whether you have attended the marriage counselling together. This would seem to me to be the obvious first step. From there if you individually need to see a professional, then you can do that, but you need a qualified outsider to take an passive look at your relationship and help you both discover what it is that's keeping the intimacy out of your relationship.

Remember that this is a shared problem. Your wife no doubt misses the intimacy too. She feels the pressure of your needs as much as her own, but for whatever reason cannot bring herself to disconnect from other matters. There are things she is doing "wrong", needs of yours that she is neglecting. But I can guarantee you that she can say the same about you. That there are burdens she is carrying and feels like she's completely on her own.

The important thing now is to be open about your feelings and receptive to hers. Don't take any personal criticism as an attack or a deflection, but as an opportunity to make things better for both of you. The only way for things to get better from here is for things to change. That doesn't mean she has to change, it means you do too.

Don't cheat. Don't go to see a sex worker. You haven't disconnected emotionally from your marriage. The guilt from what you've done will make your depression fifty times worse. What may be a comforting hour of human contact and warm intimacy will be quickly replaced with an enormous vacuum in your heart.

At the end of the day though, whatever the outcome, your mental health is top priority. For your sake and your children's sake. Many people who grew up in a tense household with one or both parents being angry and miserable, would happily trade that for seeing their Dad only twice a week, but happy and relaxed. Money is meaningless in the grand scheme. Your kids will love you whether you live in mansion or a bedsit. Your happiness and energy is the thing that will stick with them.

mlem123

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

Whilst I don't agree that your feelings are selfish, I do agree you should speak with your GP yourself.

OP, you sound depressed and filled with anxiety. I suffer with anxiety so I get it and I know the spiral that happens when you feel isolated from the world. But with anxiety you've gone through all the options and worried them over so much there are no positive left, each option has been soured with overthinking.

Your wife's suggestion of you to see a regular counselor and to meetup with friends are good, I think it'd do you the world of good. Even finding a class to make you meet people etc helps getting out of your own head.

You also say that any alone time is interrupted by your wife worrying about the kids. Does she feel things to do with the kids are all left to her, along with balancing a stressful full time job? Have these intimacy issues made her feel more alone? You said that you want to vanish? Has this led you to detach from family life?

I don't think she's a "cold hearted b***h" that other commenters have suggested but I also don't think it's all on you either. Open communication is necessary but if you both feel like it's a doomed marriage I don't think anythinig will save it.

amadangomor

Almost a mirror image of the situation I am in. Don't want to get into too many details here but empathise with you isthereanylight?. Keep the chin up, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I just can't invest anymore into trying with someone who since we had another child treats me like I'm an inconvenience so we are splitting as soon as we practically can. The fact you are both on decent money hopefully can make that easier. Good luck!

amadangomor

mlem123 wrote: »

Whilst I don't agree that your feelings are selfish, I do agree you should speak with your GP yourself.

OP, you sound depressed and filled with anxiety. I suffer with anxiety so I get it and I know the spiral that happens when you feel isolated from the world. But with anxiety you've gone through all the options and worried them over so much there are no positive left, each option has been soured with overthinking.

Your wife's suggestion of you to see a regular counselor and to meetup with friends are good, I think it'd do you the world of good. Even finding a class to make you meet people etc helps getting out of your own head.

You also say that any alone time is interrupted by your wife worrying about the kids. Does she feel things to do with the kids are all left to her, along with balancing a stressful full time job? Have these intimacy issues made her feel more alone? You said that you want to vanish? Has this led you to detach from family life?

I don't think she's a "cold hearted b***h" that other commenters have suggested but I also don't think it's all on you either. Open communication is necessary but if you both feel like it's a doomed marriage I don't think anythinig will save it.

Don't think he is full of anxiety for no reason. It sounds like he is in an impossible situation with someone who doesn't give a jot about him so that will take a toll on anyone. The best case scenario that I can see here would be to get out of the situation where he can co parent his kids but not being affected so much by someone who doesn't care about him. This is definitely possible!

Lamentabli sane

Hi,



I really feel for you man. What you are going through must be very tough, but I don't think its all that uncommon. Hang in there. The darkest hour is often before the dawn.



My advice is going to be a bit unorthodox, but I hope you hear me out. As far as I have seen, in my experience, what I will describe is the only thing which seems to produce rock-solid, utterly dependable marriages which blast through all the obstacles in their path.



The secret is: putting God into your marriage. I often wondered how do some couples manage to stay so in love and dedicated to each other after so many years. Despite everything that life throws at them, despite their problems, these people always pull through. As far as I could see, the common denominator was faith and doing things God's way.



I decided to investigate myself and I read Christopher West's Theology of the Body for Beginners (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theology-Body-Beginners-Introduction-Revolution/dp/1932645349). It is a book synthesizing John Paul II's teaching on marriage. I have to say I was blown away with every page. The old stereotypes of stiff faced married people who never do anything "icky" are effectively demolished. The ideal goes way beyond "two best friends who are in love". The goal is a total union of two people who become a unit, who give to each other a total, unreserved gift of self and who love each other with a love that is sacrificial (I am writing this from memory so the list is incomplete). The picture of marriage I was left with was just something extraordinarily beautiful and definitely worth fighting for. Implementing may be hard work but I don't think anything works as well - the wisdom is just incredible.



Hope your marriage turns around. You come across as a great genuine guy. Don't give up bud.

mlem123

amadangomor wrote: »

Don't think he is full of anxiety for no reason. It sounds like he is in an impossible situation with someone who doesn't give a jot about him so that will take a toll on anyone. The best case scenario that I can see here would be to get out of the situation where he can co parent his kids but not being affected so much by someone who doesn't care about him. This is definitely possible!

Yeah well anxiety usually stems from somewhere, although it might not be helped if his disposition was to be a worrier type.

We don't know she doesn't care about him though, so I think that's a bit much to say, she does probably care but the focus is on the kids now or finds it hard if he is constantly disassociating himself from family life. I can't say that for sure either.

Either way, I agree co-parenting is probably the way forward

tomwaits48

sorry to hijack, but its related, could anyone be so kind as to private message me the name of a good family law solicitor in the Dublin area?

Antares35

smelly sock wrote: »

Perfect world scenario.

Its the man who ends up paying a mortgage for the next 30 years for a house he wont be living in you'd feel sorry for

Yup. My ex was separated with 2 kids. His ex wife was chronically "ill" with made up diseases and refused to work. He cleared 4k a month after tax and had to hand 3200 to her. She was left in the big house, refused to downsize even though they didn't need 4 bedrooms, refused to take in a tenant to contribute to the mortgage and refused to sell. He saw a solicitor who basically told him any court would look at the situation and consider it fair. The legal system is very unfairly stacked against men and fathers and I say that as a woman and a lawyer
Needless to say I high tailed out of that situation as fast as I could because I knew I would always be second or third place, as would any children we might have had. OP is right to become concerned about the implications of separation and how he will fare.

OP I'm sorry you're going through this.

Antares35

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

This is not an easy one to reply to. To be honest OP you sound either a bit selfish or a bit depressed. When you have a child your time for taking for yourself is over and your time for giving begins in earnest for circa 21 years. Maybe visit your GP for some advice and to see if you are depressed. You’d be doing yourself and those seeping you a big favour, you can’t be easy to live with the way you’re thinking.

Not sure I agree. Having children obviously changes your perspective and they of course need to come first but that doesnt mean you effectively dissolve your relationship with your spouse which is what OPs wife sounds like she did. It's very sad when people lose their identity and become just parents, living vicariously through their children. Parents need to be a unit first, and then parents to their children as a United front, whether that be in a marriage or through co parenting in a mature and effective way.

zerosugarbuzz

Antares35 wrote: »

Not sure I agree. Having children obviously changes your perspective and they of course need to come first but that doesnt mean you effectively dissolve your relationship with your spouse which is what OPs wife sounds like she did. It's very sad when people lose their identity and become just parents, living vicariously through their children. Parents need to be a unit first, and then parents to their children as a United front, whether that be in a marriage or through co parenting in a mature and effective way.

I didn’t intend to sound harsh towards the OP, maybe the use is the word selfish made it sound that way.

The OP mentions that it will be 15 years until his youngest child is grown up which would indicate the child is now 3 or 6 depending on whether he means 18 or 21. He also says that since the birth of the first child things have deteriorated. Depending how many children they have his wife could be very busy. She may also work full time, have most or all of the household responsibilities. He wants more attention, nothing wrong with that per say. But... he gives no indication of what he does for his wife. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own happiness, his wife has asked him to find outside interests. Maybe he should do this while this stage if his marriage lasts. Marriages are long, I would say most go though this phase when the children are young. Just noticed OP has not come back since his initial post.

Antares35

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I didn’t intend to sound harsh towards the OP, maybe the use is the word selfish made it sound that way.

The OP mentions that it will be 15 years until his youngest child is grown up which would indicate the child is now 3 or 6 depending on whether he means 18 or 21. He also says that since the birth of the first child things have deteriorated. Depending how many children they have his wife could be very busy. She may also work full time, have most or all of the household responsibilities. He wants more attention, nothing wrong with that per say. But... he gives no indication of what he does for his wife. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own happiness, his wife has asked him to find outside interests. Maybe he should do this while this stage if his marriage lasts. Marriages are long, I would say most go though this phase when the children are young. Just noticed OP has not come back since his initial post.

You're right sorry did not mean to be so reactionary. Agree we need to be responsible for change where we are unhappy!

marizpan

I agree with the OP in that:

Don’t expect your freedom post separation
Don’t expect a fair/pleasant separation

I would also agree that you should seek legal advice and in addition seek counseling to help cope with where you currently find yourself and explore avenues of happiness/self discovery yourself.

I write this from experience.

You should start working on yourself now.
And if you do separate in the future you will be in a mentally better place.
Sometimes when one partner starts focusing on themselves, it shifts pressure off the relationship which can only be a good thing.

Post separation the following will be invaluable so develop them now:

1. friend/support network
2. Hobbies/interests/fitness
3. Counseling or alternative means of exploring yourself

Without the above, separation is a dark dark place.

statto25

If the OP is a boards member, feel free to PM me on your current issues. I am going through something very similar and may be able to offer some insight. No agenda, just 2 people in a similar dilemma