Have you heard of BPD/What do you know of it?

MrAbyss

MrAbyss wrote: »

there is a very interesting theory that the baby girl was 'replaced' by another baby the mother had and in the infant's mind the mother had 'abandoned' them when the little brother or sister came along. This is the root cause of the BPDs abandonment issues.


BPDs are all about terror of being abandoned and they are nearly exclusively women. Fascinating topic.

I dunno..I have seen/see a mother that seems to have almost turned on a child, after having more.. it's absolutely heartbreaking to watch, when you can't do much about it.. the narcissistic parent phenomenon is very real, and I would imagine is at the root of a lot of these issues..

MrAbyss

Alecto wrote: »

I've been raped and I couldn't face going to the gardai about it, I wouldn't dream of falsely accusing someone. I'd be upset if I liked someone and they didn't want to go on another date but I'd be the one at home eating ice cream and crying to love songs!

BPD has a reputation as some sort of Fatal Attraction dangerous stalking woman who will boil your rabbit or kidnap you (cathy bates - misery) but most people with BPD just end up torturing themselves.

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

MrAbyss

Gynoid wrote: »

Study up on the amygdala.

Gearbox of the brain. BPDs go from 1-5 and skip all the gears in between.

MrAbyss

it has got to the stage that if I even suspect a woman has BPD I will not have any kind of relationship with her . They are just too dangerous, toxic and unhinged. It's very sad for people with BPD of course, but I consider staying away from Borderlines as I would a person with typhoid coughing around me. It is not hate. Quarantine.

MrAbyss

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

Do you have evidence of this?

Just to provide a bit of balance against how difficult it is to have a relationship with a person who has BPD. One of the closest people in my life has a diagnosis. She's like a sister to me. I don't see her as having a personality disorder I see a person who struggles. She has a huge capacity for empathy and understanding of other people. The person she hurts is herself.

GeetarPick

MrAbyss wrote: »

it has got to the stage that if I even suspect a woman has BPD I will not have any kind of relationship with her . They are just too dangerous, toxic and unhinged. It's very sad for people with BPD of course, but I consider staying away from Borderlines as I would a person with typhoid coughing around me. It is not hate. Quarantine.

I consider people with judgemental attitudes like this in the same vein.

Lillyfae

For all those talking about “undiagnosed”, how do you know you have it without a diagnosis?

GeetarPick

Lillyfae wrote: »

For all those talking about “undiagnosed”, how do you know you have it without a diagnosis?

Trust me I know .

Foweva Awone

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that many BPD women (including myself) are survivors of childhood sexual abuse. False rape claims as an adult may be the result of misinterpreting a situation due to past trauma - rather than coming from any maliciousness on the woman's part.

I know that doesn't make it in any way okay, it's just that so many people (even some mental health professionals) view BPD sufferers as pure evil, poisonous people. There is so much stigma attached to it. Not every sufferer displays all of the symptoms, in fact I believe you only need to hit 5 of the 9 markers on the DSM-5 criteria to get a diagnosis. It's quite unfair to write off all people/women with the diagnosis, just because of your experience of a few.

Alecto

Lillyfae wrote: »

For all those talking about “undiagnosed”, how do you know you have it without a diagnosis?

When it was suggested to me when I was 21, I looked up the symptoms and refused to believe it, but then by the time I was 30 I was saying it to the psychiatrists myself, and they confirmed it, sometimes you know you have it. I had some refuse to label me as such and others hint at it until finally one came out and said it. They seem to want to avoid labelling people these days but I found it gave me a lot of clarity and understanding. I was very confused by my behaviour before I looked into BPD and began to understand myself so much more.

Lillyfae

GeetarPick wrote: »

Trust me I know .

But there are diagnostic tools these days, we don’t have to guess if we have it, or self diagnose, you’re receiving some kind of professional guidance, right?

MrAbyss

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that many BPD women (including myself) are survivors of childhood sexual abuse. False rape claims as an adult may be the result of misinterpreting a situation due to past trauma - rather than coming from any maliciousness on the woman's part.

I know that doesn't make it in any way okay, it's just that so many people (even some mental health professionals) view BPD sufferers as pure evil, poisonous people. There is so much stigma attached to it. Not every sufferer displays all of the symptoms, in fact I believe you only need to hit 5 of the 9 markers on the DSM-5 criteria to get a diagnosis. It's quite unfair to write off all people/women with the diagnosis, just because of your experience of a few.

It is unfair but it is common sense.

MrAbyss

MrAbyss wrote: »

It is unfair but it is common sense.

I await your evidence of your previous claim.

metaoblivia

I have a friend who is married to a woman with BPD. Apparently their relationship is very tumultuous and probably not dissimilar to what Wibbs was describing. It's an open marriage as she's bisexual and early on he learned she was cheating on him with a woman. He's said there are months where it's incredible and then months when she absolutely hates him, and that they both have the ability to bring out the most toxic parts of each other. I can see where that sort of roller coaster would be both exhausting and exhilarating, especially if the non-BPD person is the saving type.

Her condition got very bad right after they married and she wasn't able to work for a few years (and she worked in a creative field - think theater) and is only now starting to slowly get back into a part time job (which has nothing to do with her original job).

I think having a partner with BPD would be very challenging because my father had similar emotional instability and being involved with someone like that would dredge up bad memories and prove very toxic for me.

Alecto

metaoblivia wrote: »

I have a friend who is married to a woman with BPD. Apparently their relationship is very tumultuous and probably not dissimilar to what Wibbs was describing. It's an open marriage as she's bisexual and early on he learned she was cheating on him with a woman. He's said there are months where it's incredible and then months when she absolutely hates him, and that they both have the ability to bring out the most toxic parts of each other. I can see where that sort of roller coaster would be both exhausting and exhilarating, especially if the non-BPD person is the saving type.

Her condition got very bad right after they married and she wasn't able to work for a few years (and she worked in a creative field - think theater) and is only now starting to slowly get back into a part time job (which has nothing to do with her original job).

I think having a partner with BPD would be very challenging because my father had similar emotional instability and being involved with someone like that would dredge up bad memories and prove very toxic for me.

That's eerily familiar to me, I'm also bi-sexual and have had issues with infidelity in the past. I think the highs are extremely high when you're with someone with BPD and that's really addictive and intoxicating, but the lows are also extremely low, and that's tough. I have a new found understanding of this since I'm in a relationship with someone who also has BPD.

nothing

One of the big issues with BPD is the catch-all of the symptoms in diagnosing it. It's possible to have two people diagnosed with BPD to have only one overlapping symptom. This is part of what makes it so difficult to treat, not to mention that the "gold standard" treatment of DBT is shown to only work in certain areas (suicidal tendency, anger) for certain types of BPD, which is unsurprising when you know it was all just cherry picked elements of CBT and mindfulness by someone who self diagnosed as BPD.

It's also easily misdiagnosed as a type of bipolar, as depression, as some kind of generalised anxiety disorder, depending on which symptoms you present with, meaning it can be years before you get an "accurate" diagnosis and referred for appropriate treatment. It can also be co-existing with other disorders, and teasing out which symptoms are for which disorder - nightmare.

I agree with OP, it's not curable, but it is manageable. Unfortunately no two cases of BPD are the same, so finding the right amount and type of treatment is a struggle.

Diagnosed over 10 years ago, after 6 years with a generalised depression/anxiety diagnosis. Have a friend with it too, we have great chats about things that may or may not be due to our BPD or that we just happen to have in common, and debates about what are "normal" or BPD reactions.

For those who don't have it, but have dealt with people they suspect have it, first I'd say don't try to diagnose someone else, you never know what's going on in someone's head and you're not their psychiatrist, secondly, if someone does have it, it makes life incredibly difficult and it would do no harm to be just a tiny bit more empathetic.

Its important to know the type of person we want to have in our lives. Labels can be dangerous however because they bunch individuals under the one umbrella. They can also take away personal responsibility. I'm a big fan of taking ownership for who we are and what we do. A diagnosis can be liberating but it can also an excuse.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its important to know the type of person we want to have in our lives. Labels can be dangerous however because they bunch individuals under the one umbrella. They can also take away personal responsibility. I'm a big fan of taking ownership for who we are and what we do. A diagnosis can be liberating but it can also an excuse.

Having a label after many many years of not knowing what was wrong gives an amazing way to understand what's going on, how to treat it, how to recognise unhelpful behaviours and actions, how to understand past behaviours and how to recover. Its no more an excuse than, say, a diabetes label. It is a useful medical diagnosis.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

Having a label after many many years of not knowing what was wrong gives an amazing way to understand what's going on, how to treat it, how to recognise unhelpful behaviours and actions, how to understand past behaviours and how to recover. Its no more an excuse than, say, a diabetes label. It is a useful medical diagnosis.

Yes I can see that. I can also see how it can give some people an "out" and excuse hurtful behaviour.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes I can see that. I can also see how it can give some people an "out" and excuse hurtful behaviour.

That kind of person doesn't need a label to find an excuse, and it's certainly not a good reason to dismiss a diagnosis (or label as it's being unhelpfully referred to by several on this thread)

nothing

nothing wrote: »

That kind of person doesn't need a label to find an excuse, and it's certainly not a good reason to dismiss a diagnosis (or label as it's being unhelpfully referred to by several on this thread)

They don't but yet they do exist because I've encountered them. Diagnoses in my experience can cause some people to be trapped by their struggles. They can become fixated on it and see it as their identity. Look at the words I am using; 'some' 'can' 'my experience'.

Nowhere am I saying that all people who have BPD use it to hide or that the diagnosis is bad for all those who have it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I can see that. I can also see how it can give some people an "out" and excuse hurtful behavior.

I would say that people with severe levels of the disorder or other severe personality typer disorders are possible to chaotic to be organised enough to look for an excuse for their behavior they have disordered thinking as part of the condition.

The self pity and blaming others, looking for an excuse is probably a personality type related to low levels of empathy its not a mental illness.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I would say that people with severe levels of the disorder or other severe personality typer disorders are possible to catholic to be organised enough to look for an excuse for their behavior they have disordered thinking as part of the condition.

The self pity and blaming others, looking for an excuse is probably a personality type related to low levels of empathy its not a mental illness.

Not necessarily. There are many many people who have a mental illness and who also engage in self pity and victim behaviour.

I don't quite understand the first part of your post.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They don't but yet they do exist because I've encountered them. Diagnoses in my experience can cause some people to be trapped by their struggles. They can become fixated on it and see it as their identity. Look at the words I am using; 'some' 'can' 'my experience'.

Nowhere am I saying that all people who have BPD use it to hide or that the diagnosis is bad for all those who have it.

I understand that you don't mean all those with the diagnosis. What I find frustrating is that people (not just you) refer to a diagnosis of a mental health condition as a label, when the same doesn't apply to, say, cancer, diabetes, broken leg. It's part of the struggle those with mental health issues face every day. That somehow their diagnosis shouldn't be or isn't valid as its dismissed.

I encounter people who are filled with self pity. They also struggle with depression and anxiety. Yet you could offer them the moon and they will find a reason not to take it. Pain can be seductive to some. Why get up and face your demons when you can lie in a heap all day? Why take charge of your life when you can blame the world?

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not necessarily. There are many many people who have a mental illness and who also engage in self pity and victim behaviour.

I don't quite understand the first part of your post.

It's certainly not restricted to those with mental illness, plenty of mentally healthy people are well adept at playing the victim.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I encounter people who are filled with self pity. They also struggle with depression and anxiety. Yet you could offer them the moon and they will find a reason not to take it. Pain can be seductive to some. Why get up and face your demons when you can lie in a heap all day? Why take charge of your life when you can blame the world?

Sounds like you could use more empathy in your life

nothing

nothing wrote: »

I understand that you don't mean all those with the diagnosis. What I find frustrating is that people (not just you) refer to a diagnosis of a mental health condition as a label, when the same doesn't apply to, say, cancer, diabetes, broken leg. It's part of the struggle those with mental health issues face every day. That somehow their diagnosis shouldn't be or isn't valid as its dismissed.

It isn't my intention to dismiss or invalidate diagnoses in mental health. I'm just not sure of they are always helpful.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

Sounds like you could use more empathy in your life

Ha.

Sounds like you don't know a damn thing about me.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It isn't my intention to dismiss or invalidate diagnoses in mental health. I'm just not sure of they are always helpful.

Is a cancer diagnosis unhelpful in any circumstances? People need to understand that a mental health diagnosis is no less helpful than a physical one.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

It's certainly not restricted to those with mental illness, plenty of mentally healthy people are well adept at playing the victim.

They absolutely are. I agree.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ha.

Sounds like you don't know a damn thing about me.

Sounds like you don't know a thing about depression.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They absolutely are. I agree.

Then why focus only on those who happen to be mentally unwell?

nothing

nothing wrote: »

Sounds like you don't know a thing about depression.

Sounds like you are making a personal judgement against one person based off a few posts on a forum.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

Then why focus only on those who happen to be mentally unwell?

Because this thread is about mental ill health.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not necessarily. There are many many people who have a mental illness and who also engage in self pity and victim behaviour.

I don't quite understand the first part of your post.

The person will think differently when they are ill verses when well so in a way there is not point in saying they are acting the victim or looking for excuses because to them when they are unwell it does not seem like that, now when they are well they may be open to the idea.

For some insight is crushing and very hard to deal with so in a sense they may know they are looking for excuses but full awareness of that would be too much.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sounds like you are making a personal judgement against one person based off a few posts on a forum.

A simple observation based on the opinion of depressed people that you posted. What else would I base it on except what you've said yourself that clearly shows that.

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because this thread is about mental ill health.

And thus an opportunity to bash them?

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

The person will think differently when they are ill verses when well so in a way there is not point in saying they are acting the victim or looking for excuses because to them when they are unwell it does not seem like that, now when they are well they may be open to the idea.

For some insight is crushing and very hard to deal with so in a sense they may know they are looking for excuses but full awareness of that would be too much.

Yes I take that point. The world is made up of many different types of people all worth their own uniqueness and way of coping.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

And thus an opportunity to bash them?

Provide evidence of where I "bashed" people who are struggling with their mental health? I stand over everything I posted here.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

A simple observation based on the opinion of depressed people that you posted. What else would I base it on except what you've said yourself that clearly shows that.

Please don't assume anything about me. I haven't done the same with you.

Trigger Happy

nothing wrote: »

And thus an opportunity to bash them?

You must be reading the wrong thread. She did not bash them.
Or perhaps you are been argumentative for arguments sake...

nothing

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Provide evidence of where I "bashed" people who are struggling with their mental health? I stand over everything I posted here.

Persepoly wrote:

I encounter people who are filled with self pity. They also struggle with depression and anxiety. Yet you could offer them the moon and they will find a reason not to take it. Pain can be seductive to some. Why get up and face your demons when you can lie in a heap all day? Why take charge of your life when you can blame the world?

Speaks for itself that you have no empathy for people who are depressed/anxious and unable to accept help for whatever reason.

nothing

nothing wrote: »

Speaks for itself that you have no empathy for people who are depressed/anxious and unable to accept help for whatever reason.

You are correct. I am cold and heartless. My empathy for those who suffer is non existent.

Right. Now that that's out of the way.

PoisonIvyBelle

I know someone with BPD so I know a bit about it, and I was diagnosed with PTSD myself a few years ago which leads to some similar issues with anxiety, emotional regulation, and dissocation.

With regards to the stigma in terms of any mental health issues, it does still exist, but you can control how much it affects you. A lot of people just won't understand it and it's not your job to make them understand, it's often a losing battle TBH. It's very hard for people to understand something they haven't experienced themselves. I'd also be careful about who you talk to about it, and I know a lot of people will argue and say you should be open with everyone, but honestly - that can just lead to more stress. I'd say you only need to tell people on a need to know basis. It's your business.

One thing I would say is that I think that it's always good to have the clarity of a diagnosis in terms of treatment and understanding your own behaviour, but don't let it become a noose around your neck either. What I mean by that, is that you shouldn't let it define you. You're still you, you just have a name for what's going on with you now.

MrAbyss

Deleted User wrote: »

Not necessarily. There are many many people who have a mental illness and who also engage in self pity and victim behaviour.

I don't quite understand the first part of your post.

You get this with the Professionally Depressed types. They can turn it on and off like a switch.

Fr_Dougal

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno about high level FD, but I'll give it a go(I went out with another but she was undiagnosed, though fitted the profile to a tee. Almost identical trajectories). *generalisation alert* women(tm) tend to be more obviously emotional and up and down in relationships, well imagine a normal level amped up by the power from an atomic reactor.

In the early stages it's pretty good to great, almost overwhelming in the attention you get. You're carpet bombed with passion and the sex is off the charts. It's quite "addictive" in a way and in the rearview mirror of hindsight can look planned to be, to get you "hooked" as it were. And it does. If you were an inexperienced guy you'd be screwed I'd imagine as she'd feel like the Perfect Girlfriend. I'd been around the block and it fooled me for a time. It's not planned as such, more the condition I'd imagine, the need to get themselves hooked on the emotionals as that seems to be the drug involved.

Then with time - and not so long in from my recall, a few months - the emotionals begin to get more obviously negative, more obviously manipulative in keeping the emotionals tap open for the hit they needed. It was a rare day where something, some issue wasn't in play, lurching from extremes of positive to negative. The need for attention was a constant and the natural reaction, or mine anyway, was to feel like I should supply it. It was never enough and could never be enough. Actually at the tail end of one I largely switched off and funny enough that calmed things and her right down. I wasn't playing the game. I can see how someone with this condition could end up with a cold bastard, or the other extreme of someone who would keep supplying the emotional hits to their personal detriment.

Emotionally manipulative would be my biggest takeaway. Though not in a I dunno psychopath type way. It's not so much to their advantage overall. Though major headmelt sums it up and no way would I stick around if I even got the sniff of that again. Put it this way, after those two - and this is donkey's years ago - I'd still be so sensitive to it that even perfectly normal women's normal emotional stuff gets my hackles up to a degree. If I had a friend involved with someone with this - and I have. One guy's life nearly went around the U bend over it - I'd tell them to run as far and as fast away as possible. Which itself can be bloody difficult as the emotionally manipulative stuff can be focussed ever harder on what weaknesses they perceive in you if they think you're moving away.

My 2cents anyway FD.

Similar enough to my own experience with one.

She craved attention, if you didn’t reply to her straight away she would accuse you of ghosting her etc, we’re talking about hours here.

It got to the stage where I had to block her WhatsApp messages, she’d text at 3/4am when most normal people would be asleep.
Maybe 6 months after no contact from her she’s send a text message, trying to start an argument calling me a narcissist. This was after me completely ignoring her. Had to block text messages after that.

Then out of the blue came an apology for her behaviour, via email. Immediately I knew what was going to happen. I accepted her apology and then left it at that. Couple of days later what happens? Boom! Dramalama, Calling me a narcissist again etc.

You have to cut these people completely out of your life, or call the cops on them when they get to that level of crazy.

Alecto

It's been interesting to hear people's opinions, some open minded, some disheartening. I would say though that someone texting you in the middle of the night doesn't exactly warrant calling the guards