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Bit of a step-back week this week, coinciding with the return to lockdown. No harm after two big weeks. 58.9 miles consisting of:
Monday 40mins @8:25 min/mile
Tuesday 53mins @8:22 min/mile
Wednesday 76mins @7:39 min/mile
Thursday 64mins @7:46 min/mile
Friday 36mins @7:44 min/mile
Saturday 62mins @ 6:21 min/mile
Continuous session on the grass in spikes @15 acres in the Phoenix Park consisting of 20mins slower than lt - 3mins jog - 8 x 80s on / 40s off - 3mins jog - and then another 20mins somewhere between two thresholds.
Paces were 6:10 and 6:05 for the two 20mins sections, happy with that.
Sunday 78mins @7:46
Also finished Sunday with my 2,020 miles in 2020. I’ve only gone over 2,000 miles once before so well up on that already.
A bit busy with other stuff at the moment but lots to think about what I can do with the next few months. Right now, the way I’m thinking is that, even when club training returns, I have one ‘free’ session a week to do whatever I want to do.
So, the plan is to do something similar to the club session on Saturdays for the foreseeable future and Wednesday is Sacksian’s choice…based on where I want to be when races return.
Saturday will always be a strength session and the training of the last 9 months will surely continue to stand to me, so if the next race is 10k xc, I should be reasonably well-prepared.
Which means I can afford to do something a bit different - and probably faster - on Wednesdays. This will probably mean a lot more LT / LT+ work but I'd also like to do 5k sessions with lots of 200s-400s at 5k pace. Lots of rest too, but just a decent volume while getting comfortable at goal pace. A few months of that would be a nice complement to the strength stuff I've been doing.
I had in mind running a 5k pb this year and the session of 10 days ago tells me that pace is a bit beyond me at the moment so I would like to get back into a condition - and sense of comfort with that pace - where it's not.0 -
Off week this week. Deadlines and lack of sleep combined meant a day off on Wednesday and a general malaise from Monday to Friday.
Just 45 miles for the week. Forget what I said about 50 miles being relatively easy to hit. I was out six times this week and two or three of them were a chore.
The up-side was a decent session on Saturday and still looking forward to the winter!
Monday - 52mins @ 7:52
Tuesday - 48mins @ 7:53
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - 35mins @ 7:35
Friday - 49mins @ 7:37
Saturday - 4 x 8mins XC off 2mins jog - i.e. 40mins continuous
This was done over the 2km Munich Hills / Magazine Loop in the Fartlek in *blustery* conditions. Tough loop through the dips all the way up to Acres road, with the wind cutting right across you, and then, not so tough, back down to the Magazine Fort with the wind on your back. I was originally planning to do 5, but it would have been too much, so happy enough with 4.
It probably ended up being between-two-thresholds but was, gently, progressive - finishing up just under 6-minute pace for the last 8-minute rep. Good workout on a testing loop in sub-optimal conditions (although the tailwind was very helpful).
Just over 10k in 40mins - 6.24 miles @ 6:25m.
It’s a testament to the Donore Harriers traditions that so many of us were down at the Magazine Fort training separately, actually choosing to do xc sessions on a Saturday morning in conditions like that.
Sunday - 77mins @7:41 min/mile
Very tired this morning. Again, passing by about 8 different club mates on their long runs. Park was beautifully quiet.0 -
Double week update.
I’ll skip past two weeks ago, wasn’t much of a week - 45 miles.
I did a hill session on the Khyber (3 x 30/45/60/45/30 off jog back and 4mins b/t sets) on the Thursday but was feeling it for three days afterwards so I didn’t do another session that week. It also coincided with some deadlines and a week of bad sleep so I missed a day. The length of time it took me to recover from the hill session also suggests I could do with a few more specific hill sessions (and I have a few ideas for some).
This week was much better - two decent sessions and 59 miles.
Monday + Tuesday —> two phoenix park short trail loops around 7 miles each.
Wednesday
The Lumberjack: 2 x (6mins LT off 90s easy & 4 x 1min on/1min off)
This was tough. But enjoyable (afterwards). Supposed to be by HR but my HR wasn’t working and probably working harder on the 2nd 6mins than I was supposed to be but I still held it together for the 1min reps, so it probably wasn’t too far off.
Paces were approximately: 5:25 (first 6mins) and then 5:06/5:07/5:09/5:18 (for the first 4 x 1mins) straight into 5:29 (2nd 6mins) and then 5:22/5:23/5:12/4:46 (for the 2nd 4 x 1mins)
The acres is never a very forgiving place to run but it was actually okay for this session. Ground was a bit cut up but the 7mm spikes were fine for the conditions.
I was pretty pleased with the pace on the 6min sections and it made me think that I might actually be fit enough to do more/longer harder stuff closer to my 5 mile pace - a pace I tend to shy away from in training.
Thursday + Friday —> two canal runs around 6 miles.
Saturday
While club training is off, I’ve decided to lean in a bit more to the idea of experimenting a bit more. So, on Saturday, I did a marathon pace/hr session and ended up with my longest run since March 2019.
The plan was 4-3-2-1 miles at marathon hr (144-149bpm) off 1 mile. I cut the recovery of the first one a bit short and then had to run a bit longer at the end to make up the HM distance.
The final run total was 85mins @6:30, with all of the marhr sections at around 6:18 and the off miles around 7min/mile. I found the first 4 miles very handy and they averaged 144bpm, but as I got into the 2 mile and 1 mile sections, I just found my legs harder to move. I didn’t feel particularly tired, I just couldn’t get my legs to ‘go!’. Just shows me how important the muscular endurance side of things is for long runs.
I’ve done two 10 milers at 6:06 or so in recent months, both on more challenging surfaces (and both of which I finished pretty strongly), so I was surprised at how timid my finish on this run was - I just presumed I’d be able to blast out the last mile, but not to be!
I’m not going to do any longer runs but I might repeat this in 3 weeks or so, just to see if repeating it has any impact. It’s not a particularly demanding session aerobically and works out as a good aerobic refresh.
Sunday - 53mins @8:40! Very gentle recovery
Next week, some more LT stuff midweek and probably something with hills at the weekend. Or the other way around.0 -
Is that the plan for the winter so? Aerobic sessions with a sprinkling of threshold\VO2max in there?0
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I'm struggling to wrap my head around 5.25 LT pace?0
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Duanington wrote: »Is that the plan for the winter so? Aerobic sessions with a sprinkling of threshold\VO2max in there?
The plan is effectively trying to keep a few different plates spinning (slowly) over the next few months. But I’m definitely thinking of prioritising the quality of sessions more than I have been.
I’ve spent a lot of this year doing aerobic work (and many weeks where the priority was building volume rather than worrying about the quality of the sessions) and I think I’m at the stage where I need to progress the ‘work’ elements of the sessions I’m doing if I’m going to push on - even if it’s going to be a while before there’s any proper racing.
There are no races on the horizon - and no club sessions at the moment - so there’s no pressure to squeeze in two sessions a week if the body is telling me that it’s not a good idea. So, it might mean longer LT intervals with decent rest or larger volume of faster LT intervals.
I love the xc fartlek stuff we do with the club and that’ll pick back up in a few weeks but, even with all the mileage and consistency of the past 6 or 7 months, I don’t really feel that I’ve actually got faster over any distance - I’m just in good general shape, which is still a great feeling when you’ve had a lot of interrupted/truncated seasons over the years with niggles and injuries.
So I want to experiment a bit with developing that fitness in a couple of different - but specific - directions. Firstly, I want to try and do more LT and LT+ / 10k-paced stuff. That might mean something like 8 x 1k LT off 90s or 4 x 6mins off 2mins. Or even something like a 6 x 1mile @10k off 4mins (something which I’ve always shied away from, and still amn’t sure it’s a good idea!!). I’m doing this with a (hopefully, national) 10k XC in mind in the new year.
Secondly, I want to do some harder hill sessions (beyond Vo2). Peter Coe has a progression going from 10 x 20s to 40 x 20s up a very steep hill. For me, efficiency and economy are always worth a few seconds a mile - it’s difficult to maintain for a very long time but worth investing in periodically. This is just something I’ve had on my mind to do for a long time.
Basically, for the next few months, I want to be in a position to be able to pivot to any distance from 10k (10 mile) xc to 1500m indoors, while still maintaining aerobically - those MarHR long runs every few weeks should be enough.
If we go back to Level 3, there may be a club 5k TT and almost certainly the 124th running of our annual Stephen’s Day club 10 mile XC race (started in 1896!). So, something to look forward to and I'm trying to keep both those options in mind.0 -
Swashbuckler wrote: »I'm struggling to wrap my head around 5.25 LT pace?
Sorry to hear that!!
My LTHR range is about 152-157bpm which would probably be around 5:40 in these conditions.
I did this session two years ago with a working hr monitor and it was 5:40 pace for the first 6min section and 5:41 for the second (but I’m fitter at the moment!).
My hr wasn’t working for Wednesday’s session, so I was just running by effort. That’s the pace it came out as. And, as I said above, I was aware that I was probably above LTHR.
So, this was possibly about 10-12 seconds faster than LT pace on the first one, but it’s a 6min effort and I’m generally quite conservative on LT efforts so it’s not going to kill me.0 -
Wasn't meant to come across as judgemental or anything. I just see 6.06 pace for ten miles (granted on a tough route) and the two just didn't add up to me.0
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Swashbuckler wrote: »Wasn't meant to come across as judgemental or anything. I just see 6.06 pace for ten miles (granted on a tough route) and the two just didn't add up to me.
I didn't take offence at all - I absolutely don't mind questions or comments, but expect very long answers, and just ask if you have a question!
One of the difficulties of interpreting training logs/Strava is that there is an infinite amount of context/detail (even the tone!) that gets obscured: background, sleep, diet, true effort, conditions, sporting history, amount of activity during the day, genetics!! I can fill in the blanks on mine, but I don't expect anyone else to be able to.
LT is a physiological threshold, not a pace threshold so, if it is measured, there's nothing to add up, other than making sure the effort's in the right zone! Different people use different terminology for various thresholds - I use my MarHR threshold and my LTHR threshold and they're based on heart rate and were professionally measured (by Emmett Dunleavy, who is an absolute gent).
The 6.06 for 10 miles is a reference to a club session (a 10mile tempo!) where my first two miles were 6:33 and 6:28 so it's not reflective of a 10 mile race time - not that I think I could maintain my LTHR for 10 miles!
And, also, everyone's different.
My physiology generally suggests I should be faster over longer distances/xc than I am, but also slower over shorter distances than I am! And my mile and 5k pbs don't seem to bear much relation to my LTHR and I suspect will always be stronger than pbs for any distance 5 miles and longer.0 -
Bit of an off-week but two decent sessions. 53 miles in total.
Monday was 50mins @ 7:57
Tuesday session was 2 x 4 x 1k off 60s/3mins standing recovery @something harder than 10k.
I can’t remember the last session where I purposely took a standing recovery between intervals - probably about two years ago! But I’m trying to get a bit more quality into my sessions, which means running them a bit harder.
This was okay. The difference that the last year has made to my running is that I can actually tolerate and finish a session like this which involves a good volume of long-ish LT+ intervals.
My lactate curve in 2016 showed that, once past the lactate threshold, my lactate rose quite steeply and quickly (although it has never really effected me over 5k because it’s too short) which meant I had to be quite careful in longer races. And this has been the case up until recent months basically.
Since then, my feeling is that the miles of the past year have made it a lot flatter (it doesn't build up so quickly anymore). And the session on Tuesday backs up this feeling.
As usual, very windy on the 15 acres, although also very warm on Wednesday. Conditions underfoot fine for spikes. Started pretty tentatively and ran the 2nd set a little faster than 1st (but it was also harder).
SET 1 (3:27.2 / 3:19.4 / 3:22.5 / 3:19.6) = AVG. 3:22.2
SET 2 (3:16.4 / 3:19.5 / 3:20.3 / 3:21.7) = AVG. 3:19.5
Last couple were tough but they’re off a minute recovery so to be expected.
Generally, my philosophy with intervals is:“…if the athlete cannot significantly quicken the pace even towards the end of a set or session it is likely that the intervals are being run too quickly for the current level of fitness.”
So, I failed on that regard. But 99% of the interval sessions I’ve ever run have involved me being able to blast the last rep (which I still think is the *right* way to do them) so in trying to do things a little bit differently at the moment - particularly trying to deal with lactate a little better - it’s not too bad, particularly because the last three of the second set were still pretty solid off 60s recovery.
Wednesday was 50mins @ 7:54
Thursday - 55mins @ 8:22 to the park and back
Friday - 20mins - pushed for time again and went out just to keep the discipline up.
Saturday was something I’ve intended to do for a while. Build up to a Peter Coe style 30-40 x 100m hill session (on a 16% hill!!). I did 19 and they were probably closer to 80m - the hills finish with about 10 steps so I added three bounds to the end of each hill, which I thought was a nice stimulus to have as a bonus. I’ll go back to this and not as beat up as I’d thought today (albeit now ****ed after neighbourhood clean-up).
Sunday - long run = 73mins @7:25
Current plan for the sessions for next week are 8 x 1k off 90s (@ nominal 10k pace) midweek. And a “lactate stacker” for friday or next weekend!0 -
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Solid start but a sickly end to the week...
Monday - thought I might be coming down with something but got out for 53mins @ 8:09min/mile. Was thinking of leaving session until Wednesday at this point.
Tuesday - woke up still feeling a bit tender after the combination of hills and neighbourhood clean-up over the weekend but wanted to get the session done and leave the option of doing the second session on Friday and possibly fitting in a 5k progression on Sunday.
So, this was 8 x 1k off 90s on the acres on the same k stretch as last week’s session. Again, quite warm and the usual wind (although blowing in the opposite direction). Grass was firm underfoot. They come out as:
3:23.4 / 3:28.9 / 3:27.2 / 3:30.7 / 3:27.9 / 3:27.4 / 3:26.1 / 3:22.7 = AVG. 3:26.8
I misjudged the first one a bit because I didn’t really twig that the wind direction was favouring me but, otherwise, I held it together pretty well. And happy that I was able to pick it up for the last rep.
Not as intense as last week’s session but still tough, particularly the psychological burden of getting through 8 on your own! It felt long. Once you get to 5 or 6, it’s fine.
Wednesday - again, stuck for time. Off.
Thursday - back to 9 miles. 70mins @ 7:47
Friday - 60mins @ 7:40 /m
And then struck down by a bad lurgy Friday night. In bed all day Saturday.
So three days off so far. Feel fine today but will probably wait until Wednesday to run again.
I usually get one of these things a year. It generally comes off the back of a couple of hard sessions with inadequate recovery, whether through insufficient sleep or food. I’ve been able to dodge it in the past by heading it off but a combination of things in the last couple of weeks meant I just wasn’t cautious enough.
Missing days when I hadn’t previously and mentioning tiredness are signs it's on its way. I wrote the Monday entry for this log on Tuesday, where I said I thought I might be coming down with something, and in my run description on Strava on Tuesday, I think I mentioned that I was still recovering from the weekend before the session. Those combined, and a bit of a bug going around the house, were the perfect storm for succumbing.
It always take me ages to feel like I’m back 100% again so I’ll take a step back in intensity with the sessions for 10 days or so (was supposed to be doing the “lactate stacker” last Saturday!!).
Club sessions return from this week with a rumoured first session of a 5.5k xc threshold tempo followed by a three-quarter session of 200s - both over our usual Magazine Fort loop. Which is exactly the type of session I'd love to do but I’ll have to skip that this week.
And going forward I have to figure out what the priority for me will be midweek when I’m back at the club sessions.
Midweek I’ll either be hitting 2mile reps @MAR —>LT (in advance of the Stephen’s Day 10mile xc race, which probably won't happen), hills (in advance of needing to be quicker come March, which probably won't be needed) or…..
At some point, I want to rerun an 80 x 100m session I did years ago. I was reminded of it by a post in the “Random Running Questions” thread.
I was actually a bit injured at the time I did it in 2016 but I ran three races shortly after doing it (a BHAA 4-miler, the Great Ireland 5k, and the road relays) that went really, really well and I’ve always thought it played a big part in those races.
Just a huge amount of volume at a good speed without killing yourself (although it is mentally challenging). If there’s the possibility of a mile either at Christmas or in the New Year, I might get it done before then.
Beyond that, I think Athletics Ireland are coming under increasing pressure from athletes and clubs to lobby harder for some form of return to competition and I suspect they will try to organise a National Senior XC late February or so. I would say the demand would be incredible and it’d certainly be special to do it, so I’d like to do a couple of 10 x 1k off 2mins sessions before then. One on the grass same as last Wednesday and, if I can squeeze another in, hopefully one on the track.
Not sure whether I'll recover quickly enough to do a TT before the end of the year but either way it's been a very productive year in terms of running, if not in terms of races. Hopefully I can keep the consistency going for another few months.0 -
80 x 100? what the **** :pac:0
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IvoryTower wrote: »80 x 100? what the **** :pac:
Dude - this is exactly what you should be doing!!
Have you ever heard of someone doing an 8 x 1000m session?
Or 20 x 400m?
Now, just keep going....
Actual session took about an hour:
https://www.strava.com/activities/520220396/laps
It's about 5 miles of running in around 5/min pace. Now, maybe I was in ridiculously good shape at that time (unlikely) and I wouldn't be able to get near it now (quite possible) but I still think it was one of those beautiful training experiments that simultaneously makes absolutely perfect sense, and no sense whatsoever.
Can't wait to do 40 x 200m @ 3k pace and 100 x 100m @5k pace in the new year!!!0 -
How do you keep count?
I get confused if there is more than 10 reps.0 -
How do you keep count?
I get confused if there is more than 10 reps.
I'm the same - that's why the 800m is my favourite distance!
I think most of my sessions of either 20 reps or 2 x 10 reps have ended up being 21 reps because I lose count and just want to be sure.
But, for this one, I made sure from the start that I could tell by the lap no. on the garmin where I was. I really, really didn't want to run 79. I think I was breaking it up mentally into sets of 10 as well and I do remember around rep 50 being a bit dubious about the possibility of completing it.0 -
Still recovering…
28.4 miles which, amazingly, is more than in any week in December 2019. So, this year has been good and while I don’t want to limp into 2021, it always take me a while to recover from these things.
41mins @8:14 min/m
52mins @7:57 min/m
58mins w 5 x HS off jog back @8:21 min/m
77mins @7:51 min/m
I may not make a session this week. But we’ll see what happens.
The Stephen’s Day club 10 mile xc race has been cancelled - first time since 1916 and only the 2nd time in its history it hasn’t taken place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterhouse_Byrne_Baird_Shield0 -
You lads who have been secretly training on the 2 mile loop will get your day in the sun when it is re-arranged.0
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scotindublin wrote: »You lads who have been secretly training on the 2 mile loop will get your day in the sun when it is re-arranged.
Not me, cap'n - I'm out there on Strava calling out the subterfuge and skullduggery!
(actually I *was* planning to start training for it this week or next if I hadn't been struck down with lurgy. Don't know why I bother, never get a decent handicap anyway!)0 -
There was a couple of members spotted on the loop this morning as we made our way up the Kyber at the end of the long run!0
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Recovery taking a long time. Not unusual for me, as I’m genetically blessed with the ability to lose fitness extremely quickly, while taking an inordinate amount of time to regain it.
Took Monday and Tuesday off. And then decided to just commit to getting back out on Wednesday and everyday from here on. My HR on Wednesday and Thursday was shockingly high despite running very slowly.
Wednesday - 41mins @8:15min/m
Thursday - 54mins @8:21min/m
Friday - 54mins @8:09min/m - this was better.
Saturday - 75mins @8:09 - better again. Chest still not right, but HR returning to normality.
Sunday - 35mins @7:28 - Originally planning to do 10 but decided to keep it short for safety's / recovery's sake. Legs coming back - lungs still a bit full of mucus.
There’s a club 5k xc race next weekend and the Stephen’s Day race is back on, thanks to the benevolence of the OPW. I won’t be able to race the 5k, so the only dilemma is whether to do the Stephen’s Day race at all.
My fastest time is from the first time I did it in 2014, when I ran 62:07 (62:55 in 2017 and 63:44 in 2015, when I was similarly lurgy-afflicted in the month before). And I had hopes of running a bit quicker this year.
I’m not going to do that now but 10 miles xc is still a decent workout. If I’m confident that it won’t set me back in terms of injury or illness, I’ll do it. Even if that’s closer to the 2015 time or 64 mins, it would be worthwhile doing it.
With the announcement of the cross-country season and Sport Ireland’s apparent point-blank refusal to countenance an elite GOAL indoor mile, it looks likely that I won’t have to worry about track for the next few months.
At the moment, I feel like I’ve taken a few steps back in the last couple of weeks despite a really good year, mileage wise. But, if I can get back to where I was last month (and get a bit more sleep) in the next three or four weeks, I’ll be in a good position to work towards for the national novice xc or the national masters (if either happen).
January will be about getting the good habits back in place. Running everyday is the priority. And go with the plan I had a couple of weeks ago, trying to develop fitness in different directions. But I am thinking of going back to doing more of the interval work in sets/higher number of intervals rather than longer reps.
And 2021 will, again, be about PBs. And, again, the track will be the priority.
800m, 1500m, 3000m and, if I’m very, very lucky, a 5k pb.0 -
43.4 for the week although it was only today that I felt like I was finally back to the land of the living.
6 days running, mostly short.
Monday - 40mins @8:03 (knee sore)
Tuesday 51mins @7:55 (knee better)
Thursday - 54mins @6:53 w/3 miles a bit uptempo in the middle
Friday - 39mins @ 7:58
Saturday - 8 x 3m30s off 90s xc on Polos.
Probably could have done with longer spikes and a slower first interval. Either way, it was windy as usual on the Polos, very gloopy and I started to tire (hr was rising) by the last few reps. Harder work than I was anticipating but worth doing anyway. Just under 6 miles of running @6:42 pace in total for the session.
Sunday - 66mins @ 7:31
This was a lovely run - I normally run on trails but they're so sticky at the moment that I ran on the road.
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Will hopefully do a mini-session before the 10-mile xc race on Saturday. Not expecting much, but it will be a good workout (and am preparing a series of legal challenges to the handicapping committee’s decisions in advance of it). In or around 63mins is a reasonable target.
Looking forward to getting faster and fitter again in 2021.0 -
This week was mostly about making sure I was ready for Saturday’s race.
5 days of running (including a couple of short days) for 39 miles.
Tuesday - 46mins @7:47
Wednesday - 3 x 8mins xc @MHR off 2mins on WBB Lap
Very gloopy - hr higher than MHR and my spikes split. Leaving me with no spikes for Saturday’s race.
Friday - 31mins @7:18 - hr higher than usual, not sure why.
Saturday.
Waterhouse Byrne Baird
The traditional club handicap 10 mile xc race, held on St. Stephen’s Day since 1896. Perfect for social distancing because of the handicap nature and two-mile loop.
First runners set off at 11:00 with the scratch man off at 11:35. Myself and one of the junior guys (who ran 9.05.66 for 3000m during the summer) set off at 11:26. 40 finishers in total.
Having split my spikes during the week, the only option I had were my 800m/1500m spikes which I’ve never worn outside a track before but on the morning of the race I ended up dithering so long about spike lengths that I was actually running late so had to cycle up to the park to get there in time. I left the house just after five past, leaving me 20 minutes to cycle the two miles to the park and get my spikes on before the start. It meant I didn’t have much time to think about a strategy.
The way the race works is that, over the first 4 laps, you’re unwinding the handicaps of people who started in front of you, some of whom might be three miles into their 10 miles before you begin, while also trying to protect your lead against the (faster) athletes who start behind you.
I always get the handicap of someone who’s about two minutes faster than me over 10 miles so I was just planning to try and keep an even effort and hopefully push on in the last lap.
The WBB lap starts at the trail beside the dog pond in the Phoenix Park with the first section of the lap up the long drag along the trail that runs parallel to Chesterfield Avenue (on which there was a strong headwind on Saturday). You then turn towards the 15 acres, before turning back down the trail running parallel to the Khyber which, once you’ve navigated the gloop through the trees at the top, is a quite fast downhill down around the cricket pitches and back to the start at the dog pond.
My strategy was to keep the guy who started at the same time as me in sight for as long as possible, letting him off up the drag and then trying to get closer again when we had the wind at our backs. I was managing this quite well for the first two laps and was really holding back on the 2nd half. But the wind was getting stronger and stronger on the drag and I am just terrible into the wind. The rope broke at about 5 miles and he put about another minute into me, on top of the lead he already had, during the second half of the race.
On lap 4, the handicaps are visibly unwinding and, at this stage, I’m conscious that I am slowing down a LOT on the drag. So, I’m starting to worry about people behind me catching me on the last lap. It isn’t until the end of mile 9 that the scratch runner (who started nine minutes after me) passed me and then I’m only passed by one other guy (a 19yo 1:50 800m runner that can also apparently run 10 miles xc in 60mins, who started 2.5 minutes after me). Some of the others who started behind me were catching me towards the end of the race but ultimately ran out of room and I stuck in a pointless sprint finish just to make sure.
In the end, the winner of the Shield is a 16 year-old who ran 62’09”, which in those conditions and on that lap, is very impressive.
My final time was 63:08, 7th fastest on the day, and my splits are a good indicator of what sort of race it was: 6:21 / 5:59 / 6:18 / 5:57 / 6:24 / 6:02 / 6:44 / 6:04 / 6:48 / 5:58.
The fastest time of the day was a mere 53 minutes.
Really good workout and just a great tradition to be part of, and we’re especially lucky to still be able to uphold it in COVID times.
Sunday - 80mins on the road at 7:53 - didn’t fancy more mud and gloop, so opted for a very pleasant clockwise loop of the park, taking in the s-bends, Upper Glen, furry glen and down North Road.
Probably take a week of many easy miles next week. Might repeat today’s long run a few times. Conscious that my HR is a little elevated for the same effort this past couple of weeks so might get some benefit from lots of easy miles.0 -
Very well run yesterday and great that the event managed to go ahead.
The handicappers have made notes from the above which may or may not be taken into consideration in 2021.
All joking aside it was great to see some brilliant times from the younger ones yesterday; the DH future is bright.0 -
scotindublin wrote: »Very well run yesterday and great that the event managed to go ahead.
The handicappers have made notes from the above which may or may not be taken into consideration in 2021.
All joking aside it was great to see some brilliant times from the younger ones yesterday; the DH future is bright.
Congratulations on the podium place - has to be a very satisfying feeling at the end of a 10 mile xc race! It was definitely a memorable edition yesterday, not just the winner but Eric running 53 minutes was a bit special too.
I was happy enough with my race (I just crumbled under the onslaught of the psychological sledging I received in the run-up). Sub 60 next year!
And the handicapping was bang on.
The conditions on the lap change from one week to the next. I think a little less rain midweek and calmer conditions would have made my handicap more generous. That's the magic of the race!0 -
That will be me slaughtered in the handicaps next year!
It was a bumper edition yesterday; Eric and Barbara both deserve special mentions and a host of good runs through the field.
The first mile of the lap was definitely tougher than the second even though there was a few sticky spots in the second mile. A sadistically satisfying morning!0 -
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43.6 miles for the week. About 10 shorter than I had hoped for, due to missing Saturday’s run. Otherwise, all easy.
Still feel like I’m struggling to get back into a consistent routine, and fitness is about 10% off where I’d like it to be.
Monday 51mins @7:51
Wednesday 80mins @7:44
Thursday 51mins @8:08
Friday 52mins @8:06 with 4 x 10s HS
Saturday I left the house for a workout and noticed the front step was a bit icy. Got around the corner on my way up to the Park and promptly hit the deck. I’d had an awful night’s sleep so took it as a sign to take another day off and trudged back home with a heavily gashed (but otherwise uninjured) knee.
On Sunday, I did the session I had been planning to do on Saturday. It felt very wrong to be heading out to do a session on a Sunday, instead of the usual easy miles.
Sunday - 100mins @7:17
Obviously, due to the black ice everywhere, I had to tiptoe up and back but I was able to do the ‘work’ bits on the grass at the 15 acres. The grass was pretty firm overall. The areas where cut-up muddy grass or trail had frozen over was a little unstable, but still better than the road though.
The session was one I did a few times in the lead-up to Bohermeen in 2019, called The Crescendo. Unfortunately, today, it was not much of a crescendo at all, but still worth doing.
It’s done as one continuous run but, after a few miles warm-up, you go into the session proper, in which you increase your HR every 20 minutes (for 3 or 4 segments).
When you’re fit or trained for a long race, the increase in HR should result in an increase in pace, which makes it a good progression session. When you’re not fit, you may actually be slowing down to keep your HR within the target range, which was my experience the first time I tried it.
Today, I managed to run the same pace for all 3 segments:
6:41 for 20mins @ 144 bpm (lower end of marhr range)
6:42 for 20mins @ 148 bpm (upper end of marhr range)
6:42 for 20mins @ 152 bpm (bottom of lthr range)
It’s not an entirely enjoyable session because you have to rein yourself in to keep to the range so you’re never really running relaxed but the idea is that, as you repeat it or do other similar sessions, both your pace for each range improves and there’s less HR drift for the same effort.
Not too worried about the paces, it’s always the same when I do these ‘big workouts’ / sessions within continuous runs and the surface wasn’t ideal this morning. Hopefully, will see an improvement next time out. My average HR for the WBB was 158 and didn’t drop below 154 from 600m in so seems about right.
Hoping to get down to the track mid-week for a 16-20 x 400m session (probably first half at ‘target’ 10k, second half at current 5k) and then doing something similar enough to today next weekend.
I have a rough plan of sessions until the end of January but need to get back to 6 days a week consistently from next week too.0 -
Back up close to 50 miles for the week. Got out 6 days.
Monday - 51mins @8:06
Wednesday - A progressive 70mins @6:51
Was hoping to get to the track for a slew of 400s, but got the news it was officially closed on Tuesday night so, rather than trying to fit something in, I did my 10 mile Phoenix Park loop as a progressive run first thing on Wednesday. Working down from 6:53 to 6:10 pace over an undulating 7 miles - helped by the fact that the first few miles of it is mostly uphill, from the bottom of Wellington Road up the Upper Glen Road and then in and out of the Glen, before becoming mostly downhill in the second half, which includes the North Road. This was lovely and relaxed - sometimes it’s just nice to run!
Thursday - 34mins @ 11:42
Friday - 51mins @8:17
Saturday - 20 x 80s on / 40s off around the 15 acres in the Park.
The grass wasn’t as hard as I expected and I probably could have done with (5mm) spikes but still a good workout which amounted to 40mins@6:14. Would love to repeat this during the summer when the ground’s a bit firmer and the legs a bit faster.
Sunday - 80mins @7:54 EASY (first FOUR miles all over 8mins!)
Lovely and relaxed low HR run. Nice not to have to worry about ice for a change.0 -
I spotted an Irish Times piece on the Stephen's day run. I'm sure you've seen it already but here it is:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/crock-around-the-clock-frank-mcnally-on-the-joys-of-running-europe-s-oldest-cross-country-race-1.44517000 -
Dubh Geannain wrote: »I spotted an Irish Times piece on the Stephen's day run. I'm sure you've seen it already but here it is:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/crock-around-the-clock-frank-mcnally-on-the-joys-of-running-europe-s-oldest-cross-country-race-1.4451700
Thanks - we have our own PR team in The Irish Times, Ian O'Riordan wrote about it on St. Stephen's Day too!
Frank McNally wrote a longer article about in in 2013 that has some more of the background: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/in-the-park-mid-winter-1.1638562
It also has the story of Frank Cahill who won it aged 76.Born in 1900, he was not quite as old as the club. But he shared his age with the 20th century, which like him was still full of youth and optimism when he made his race debut in 1923.
There then followed perhaps the most heroic series of failures in the history of athletics, as for the next 52 years he competed without success. In 1974, he was only 200 yards from the finish line when victory was snatched from his grasp again. A year later, he finally missed a race, because of a training accident. Then, finally, the triumph.
It’s said that the “scratch” athlete in 1976 – Eamonn Coghlan – was still finishing breakfast at home in Ranelagh when Cahill started out on the first of the five, two-mile laps. But this time, it was the veteran’s own body that nearly thwarted him.
Within sight of the finish, he fell over, and had he accepted the help offered by concerned onlookers, might have been disqualified. Luckily, his wits were still intact. He regained his feet unaided, accelerated into a trot, and the rest was glory.
His heroics made the front page of The Irish Times, where Peter Byrne noted that Irish sport had just been deprived of its “most illustrious loser”. As Byrne added, Cahill’s attempts to win had spanned the political careers of two Cosgraves, WT and Liam.
That's in Ian O'Riordan's article from this year too:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/the-joys-of-being-born-to-run-on-st-stephen-s-day-1.4444241
The guy that denied Tom O'Riordan in 1971 was Willie Smith, who also won it in 1958 as a 15 year-old, the youngest ever winner. And now the Senior group's coach!0 -
Peter Byrne noted that Irish sport had just been deprived of its “most illustrious loser."
That's a great line0 -
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Still not actually getting to 50 miles for the week. Got out 6 days, but this week and last were more like 5 and a half. A full six will get me to 50.
Tuesday - 53mins @8:11
Wednesday - A progressive 70mins @6:53
Same as last week, but in more difficult conditions due to the stronger wind. 6 miles progressively in the middle - into the wind around the S-bends and up the Upper Glen Road, with a tailwind on the way back down. Not as relaxed as last week, which probably explains why I only did 6 and why the 6th was 5:55.
Thursday - 51mins @ 8:15
Friday - 23mins @ 7:58
Saturday -HILLS!
3 x (30/45/60/45/30) off jog back + 3mins b/t sets.
A good session on the Khyber in the Phoenix Park and comparable to previous attempts at it. Nothing spectacular - think some of the DTC-allied group were doing 800m reps on the Khyber same time, so I got pulled-along for one.
Interestingly, the Garmin Connect stats from this session actually illustrate the gait problem I have that has been the cause of historic calf + achilles issues in the right leg (and multiple missed track seasons). The difference between L/R ground contact balance becomes quite pronounced at higher cadence/pace (only really an issue at faster than 5k pace). This is what I presumed the problem was but have never been able to see it like this. Nice visualisation to keep in mind while not doing anything about it!
Did this in the Asics TartherEdge, which I like for faster sessions. Also ordered a pair of the MetaRacers and some new xc spikes at the weekend. So I’m thinking of going full Asics. I liked the Asics Piranhas as barely-there racers when they were around. But hadn’t had a pair of Asics in about 5 years until last year, I went through two pairs of the Gel Noosa Tri and then randomly picked up the Dynaflytes in a half price sale. I’ve found the Dynaflytes really nice as a proper easy run shoe. So, interested to see how the MetaRacers work out - my impression is that they’re a carbon plate show, but more stripped back so look and feel a bit more like a classic racer.
Sunday Standard - 82mins @8:01 EASY!0 -
Funnily enough your Friday "run" was discussed on our Sunday run this morning.0
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scotindublin wrote: »Funnily enough your Friday "run" was discussed on our Sunday run this morning.
Can't believe I got grief from a 400m runner! I'll have to have a word with Donal next time I see him.
Once I start missing days, I start missing more days so the last two weeks I've done a couple of 20-30 min runs when I've been pressed for time just so I can say I've done a 6 day week - entirely for psychological reasons! The more obvious solution would be to run at night / late evening on those days but....eh....0 -
We are all creatures of habit and even getting out for those 23 minutes is good for the head0
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Broke the 50 mile barrier for the first time since middle of November - 52miles for the week. Bit of a grind getting out every day but feel better having done it.
Monday - 53mins @8:17
Tuesday - half-way between a session and a fartlek. 8 x 3m30s off 90s around my Phoenix Park 10 mile route. It was a bit messy with the rain and people walking everywhere, and it was getting dark but worth getting done, as much for psychological reasons. 70mins @ 7:14
Wednesday 40mins @8:03
Thursday 49mins @8:24 - passed by a dead deer, two wading birds and had to navigate ankle-deep muddles on the trails.
Friday 16mins @8:07
Saturday - 4mile-3mile-2mile-1mile @mar effort —> a bit faster off 5mins jog = 86mins @6:32
Repeat of session I did in November when I was feeling pretty fit - but with 5mins instead of 1 mile between intervals. Good aerobic refresh.
Kept the longer efforts more controlled than last time and was able to up the shorter efforts a bit more.
Last time out paces were 6:18 (4miles) - 6:19 (3miles) - 6:18 (2miles) - 6:17 (downhill 1mile). This time, it went 6:24 (4miles) - 6:19 (3miles) - 6:09 (2miles) - 5:59 (mostly uphill mile).
The jog interval between the 4mile + 3mile reps was about 7min pace but 7:30 before the 2-mile and 8min pace before the 1-mile (because I was hoping to hit that a bit harder but, unfortunately, it was uphill and into the wind!).
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So, the ASICS Metaracers arrived on Friday and this was therefore my first ever run in a carbon plate shoe - and one of the few track legal ones!
I think they're essentially an ASICS racing flat with a carbon plate in them, so they don't have the same stack height as the others, but probably don't have the same amount of cushioning either. I mainly bought them for their aesthetics!
I have a lot of thoughts about them and I suspect they'll be more benefit at sub-6 pace. I have an unequal gait so I’m not entirely sure my body appreciates the whole “locked-in” aspect of the carbon plate experience i.e. once you set off at a pace, it’s very economical to keep that pace rolling (in the absence of uphills and headwinds). My average hr for the first 4-mile was actually below marathon hr and 3-mile in the middle of marathon hr range, so I think that reflects their economy benefit. I’m pretty sure I’m not as fit as I was in November yet I was able to kick on a bit for the 2 and 1 mile reps.
And I did get a sense that the pace seemed to feel a bit more comfortable on the two-mile and mile reps when I opened up my stride a bit more.
Would be interested to see how they do on a faster workout but I'll keep them wrapped up for the odd irregular session like yesterday - happy enough with the Hyperion tempo as a standard session shoe on the road.
Sunday - 51mins @8:11
No reason to go any longer after yesterday, especially with the paths in the park as frosty as they were.
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Have to just keep ticking over for the next while until club training is back. Hopefully, do some faster 3min reps Tuesday or Saturday. Maybe put the spikes on for the weekend session.0 -
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A very patchy week - only 41 miles but not a bad month overall.
A bit more quality and a bit more sleep too - but work got in the way of getting out on Friday. And rain got in the way of doing a session on Saturday.
Tuesday afternoon I did 14 x 400m. I was a bit pushed for time so I did 50s recovery instead of 200m/1min, saving myself over two minutes!
1st 7 - 80/80/80/77/79/76/78
2nd 7 - 77/ 80/78/79/78/81/70
Average 78. Apart from the 76 and the final 70, they were all in a narrow range, which is encouraging. The 70 at the end is encouraging too, but it was definitely a harder session that I was hoping for, particularly given the output.
Did these along the cycle/pedestrian path at the bottom of the phoenix pitches where I learnt from scotindublin that the bike signs were spaced 100m apart, which was actually really useful as a psychological tool.
At the start of the year, I had been hoping to get to do 20 x 400m on the track, but obviously COVID put an end to that. If I could do a couple of weeks of 20 x 400m @85 or so, I think that would be a very good strength workout for me.
For the 5k pace 400s, I’d prefer to be a couple of seconds quicker over the next few months. Last year, I did 14x400 on the Polos off 60s in average 74s. I had put together a few months of 50-60+ easy miles before that but I still think 76-77s should be possible for 16 x 400m off 200m in 6 or 8 weeks.
——-SHOE REPORT - ASICS TartherEdge:
This was probably the first 5k-ish pace session I’ve done on the road in a good while. I just hate running fast on the road outside of races (as much due to surface and congestion concerns, as injury ones). The TartherEdges did the job insofar as they got out of the way.
When I’m trying to run quickly, I need to get up on my toes and get my knees up and I just want my shoes to not get in the way, which generally means as light as possible.
They’re not particularly cushioned (more cushioned than the ASICS Piranhas but less cushioned than the original Brooks Hyperions) but they’re not so light that they smell of injury e.g. NB RC5000s - which I’ve only worn once (in a Road Relay mile).
So, happy with them as a fast session shoe. And I'm hoping to do 800s with them on Tuesday.
Wednesday - 45mins @8:13
Thursday - 42mins with progressive 20mins in the middle @ 7:06
I’m sort of going back to my running roots with Tuesday + Thursday sessions. When I first started running, I was training for a marathon and I used to do 400s or 800s on Tuesday, a ‘tempo’ on a Thursday and long run on a Saturday. I didn’t really know what I was doing but it worked out.
So, I did a progressive 20mins (4x5min sections) tempo on Thursday. Due to the profile and wind, it was a run of two halves - averaging about 6:35 for the first 10mins and about 5:50 for the second 10 mins. The 20mins section was essentially a 5k loop so I’d like to do that a few times and just work it down closer to 5:50 overall, but without pushing. It’s probably more useful to my middle-distance goals than 10 miles of 6:30.
Saturday - Phoenix Park loop - 81mins @7:56, no session - just happy to get out.
Sunday 76 @ 7:31 - usual route a little brisker, just to get home. Passed scotindublin as I ran down the North Road contemplating a future as a 60m/200m indoor runner.
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Overall, I still feel like I’m just muddling through these weeks rather than training especially productively or with any particular joy or commitment but, even with that, I did over 200 miles in January.
Last year was my most consistent training year, by some distance, and I didn’t get over 200 miles until April (and only topped 200 miles six times in the whole year), so I’m doing ok. Keep this up until April and hopefully I’ll see a return.
I think the best training period I did last year was during our first lockdown when I just got out for 70-80mins easy every day of the week, building up to a long run of 60+ weeks. I might do that again in March or April to stick in a bit of volume, but 50+ every week with decent quality would be great to maintain for a whole year.
With case numbers falling as they are, and the Olympic window closing in, I’m hopeful the track season will start early. So, I’m keeping that idea of doing a track 5k in mind. I had planned to last year but, hopefully, this is the year I finally get to experience the joy of a 12.5-lap race.
One of the other hangovers from last year is that I think I was fit enough to run faster than I did over 1500m, so that’s still bugging me.
I don’t know whether that’s best served by a repeat of last year (i.e. loads of easy miles in the build-up) or something different. I definitely need more under-distance speed work than last year.
Anyway, I’ll keep muddling through until something clicks.0 -
The only bit of knowledge I have ever imparted on you!0
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scotindublin wrote: »The only bit of knowledge I have ever imparted on you!
Quality trumps quantity!! Seriously, this is a life-changing revelation. I had been thinking about possible physical markers around the pitches for years (e.g. where the trees start, where the paths to the car parks are, everything!) so it's really, really useful to know this.0 -
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You want to do a 20 X 400 session... good lord I can barely contemplate half that0
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You want to do a 20 X 400 session... good lord I can barely contemplate half that
If you're capable of running 6 miles, you can do a 20 x 400m session.
If I said 5 x 1 mile or 8 x 1k, no one would blink an eye!! Similar volumes of work, but the 20 x 400m session has more rest.
Doing intervals is (in my opinion) a very under appreciated and productive method of building endurance with good form for a lot of runners. If you approach it with the idea that you want to finish more strongly than you start, you'll end up running a lot of volume with very good form (because you're doing 70-90s intervals rather than 5-6min ones) without being stressed.
You just have to know how to vary the pace of the interval or length of the rest to suit your needs and abilities.
As with anything, it depends on your priorities and preferences!! I probably won't be running a 10k but it's good for me to get that amount of volume at 10k pace without over stressing myself.0 -
Doing intervals is (in my opinion) a very under appreciated and productive method of building endurance with good form for a lot of runners. If you approach it with the idea that you want to finish more strongly than you start, you'll end up running a lot of volume with very good form (because you're doing 70-90s intervals rather than 5-6min ones) without being stressed.
I am going to have to try this approach to be honest. Good to have in mind at the start of a session for sure.0 -
I remember when we were building up to 20 x 400s on the road and we were all like that's an epic session gaffer.
The response was you are all running 12-16 miles on your long run. Only the pace will get you on 20 x 400s if you go at them to hard.
C0 -
I am going to have to try this approach to be honest. Good to have in mind at the start of a session for sure.
For the bulk of interval sessions, you should be thinking about building into them with your fastest intervals towards the end. For the most part, I don't think it matters if the first couple of intervals are a little off-pace.
Ultimately, if you're thinking about putting weeks of training together, I know I feel better when I can remember all the sessions where I've finished strongly.
And, again, this is all personal opinion, but I'm more likely to stay consistent when I'm slightly undercooking sessions than when I'm picking myself off the floor after them or hanging on for the 2nd half. It means I'm also more likely to get in all the ancillary stuff too.
6 months of 95% sessions twice a week is better than two weeks of back-to-back 100% sessions that lead to burnout or injury!scotindublin wrote: »I remember when we were building up to 20 x 400s on the road and we were all like that's an epic session gaffer.
The response was you are all running 12-16 miles on your long run. Only the pace will get you on 20 x 400s if you go at them to hard.
C
I think I've only ever done the 20x400 on the Polos, where the off bits were kept honest, and I remember thinking a 90s 400 never felt so hard!
Thanks to your 100m marker info, I can now do all the stupid sessions I had planned for the track on that path (80 x 100m on/off would be around 10 miles!).0 -
For the bulk of interval sessions, you should be thinking about building into them with your fastest intervals towards the end. For the most part, I don't think it matters if the first couple of intervals are a little off-pace.
Ultimately, if you're thinking about putting weeks of training together, I know I feel better when I can remember all the sessions where I've finished strongly.
And, again, this is all personal opinion, but I'm more likely to stay consistent when I'm slightly undercooking sessions than when I'm picking myself off the floor after them or hanging on for the 2nd half. It means I'm also more likely to get in all the ancillary stuff too.
6 months of 95% sessions twice a week is better than two weeks of back-to-back 100% sessions that lead to burnout or injury!
Anyone running sessions should burn that post into their brains.. Hits all the key points in my opinion ... Great advice...0 -
The goal for February is 200 miles.
I’ve never run 200 miles in February and I think it’d be great to be going into April and May with 3 decent months of mileage behind me.
48.5 miles this week, but will probably struggle to hit 50 next week so there might need to be one week closer to 60 later in the month.
Monday - 50mins @8:17
Tuesday - OFF
Wednesday - 60mins0seconds @ 7:48
Thursday - Repeated the progressive 20mins tempo from last week. A little faster on both sections, averaging about 6:30 for the first 10mins and about 5:40 for the second 10 mins. and under 19 minutes for the 5k Strava segment that it covers.
Friday - 6.66 miles @8:13
Saturday - session was a faster Fartlek: 2 x 15 x 200m off 100m + 4mins jog b/t sets on the footpath around the Acres. Lots of 40s 200ms interspersed with 30s 100ms. (Total - 6.06miles @ 6:28)
Average for the first set was 40.3s on / 31s off and for the second set 39.6s on / 31.4 off.
It’s the type of session I always enjoy. Just a lot of rhythm work without much rest but never too taxing.
This was done using scottindublin’s 100m per bike symbol trick (although I did discover a glitch in the matrix, in that one of the symbols is a bit off), which made it a lot easier to keep track of things.
Last time I did this was on the track at the National Indoor Arena in December 2019 where I averaged 38s but took the 100m a lot handier (rest was averaging around 45s compared to 31 yesterday - reflecting the fact that it was probably closer to 3k pace for me at that time, rather than 5k pace). And I’d say I was in around 4:45 or so mile shape then, having front-run a 4:48 indoor mile a couple of weeks before.
So, I suspect I’m in that ballpark at the moment. Hopefully, will get a chance to do a session like this on the track soon.
Sunday - an unpleasant 86mins @ 8:14
Plan for the future is just to keep the weeks ticking over, until I can think about putting a proper structure on things. I do think I need more LT stuff and faster than 5k stuff, as I’m hoping to start the season (whenever that is) with a track 5k or 3k.0 -
Is there anything to be said for a Mass for the bike symbol that is out of whack? At least a strongly worded letter to the OPW surely??0
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scotindublin wrote: »Is there anything to be said for a Mass for the bike symbol that is out of whack? At least a strongly worded letter to the OPW surely??
They're going to have to dig the whole thing up.
As much as I wanted to believe that I was throwing in a 35s 200m* for the same effort in the exact same spot every lap, it was a crushing realisation.
Seriously, still really useful for sessions and I'll definitely be using it for 400s/800s/ks on the path in future, rather than relying on the watch - but leaving the short 100m out, obviously!
(*- to avoid any suggestion of stat padding, I left the short 200s out of the averages quoted in the previous post!)0 -
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What would you hope to run in a track 5k?0
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