Property Market 2020

fifth

KaiserSochez wrote: »

I’m in a similar position. Wondering how you went about the negotiation? The vendor on mine was firm on their asking to begin with as I went in 5k less than asking and they came back with a no. That was a week ago. I was planning on seeing how things played out for a few weeks and maybe broaching the subject again...

So for context - it's a high end new build property and has been sitting for a few months. The last of a small development of 8 homes. I figured if I could negotiate 5-10% off the price it would fall nicely within my budget, with everything going on in the market now I thought maybe I'd chance asking.

I called the EA and asked if the vendor would consider an offer of 8% off the asking. She came back and said no deal, asked if I'd be interested in some other properties, I said no & thank you for enquiring for me. I'd sit out for a while and see how the market goes.

She called me back a couple of days later and asked if I'd be willing to up my offer on the property and I said no, I couldn't stretch to it. So she said she would "go and speak to the builder again"

This time they came back and said they would be willing to deal at a 6% discount and this was acceptable to me. I think the property is exceptional. Whole process took around 7 days with the back and forth.

fliball123

FVP3 wrote: »

You didn't "deal with" anything. There is no landlord tax of 51%, there is an income tax for all.

All your arguments on this thread are badly thought out.

I argued that if someone has a buy to let then they must have a job that pays a good salary as they will have had to get a deposit for 2 houses. Therefore as we know the higher rate of tax kicks in at a very low level in this country it would safe to assume that most landlords are already on the higher rate of tax or close to it and any income garnered by a rental would be or at the very least partially subject tot he higher rate of tax. So there is a tax on rental income. Even if they are not on the higher income bracket their rental income is still income and is subject to tax.

If there was no tax for landlords rental income then why did the govenment create this page on the revenue website?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/how-do-you-calculate-your-taxable-income.aspx

Is this phucking coherent enough for you?

ittakestwo

eagle eye wrote: »

Why not close down every gym and turn them into apartments, what about soccer stadiums. We could get rid of two from Shels, St Pat's and Bohs and they all play in the one stadium? How about we get rid of Croke Park and move all major gaa matches to somewhere in the middle of the country which makes it easier for everybody to travel?
What about all the Phoenix park, close it and open a new park in ballygobackwards?
Why are you talking about golf courses. It's a good healthy activity with lots of paid up members. It's not costing the state anything. The others I mention are all getting state money in one form or another.

Because golf clubs take up huge amounts of land. You would fit about a 100 gyms in the space of one golf club. The Avia Stadium and Croker which both would fit into a golf club a few times over hold annual events where 50/80k turn up to, Miltown golf club doesn't. Go there during the weekday and there might be 10 Oap's on it...great use of land 4km from the CC? Visit the old DL golf club, they put in 1000 residential units, also created a public park and have shopping facility. Golf clubs belong out the N11, M1 or M4, not 4km from Dublin CC

GreeBo

ittakestwo wrote: »

Miltown golf club has the luas line beside it. You could also cycle into town within 10/15 mins. It's a perfect place to put a high density housing similar to Dun Laoghaire golf club.

They would be expensive given the location but it would have an effect on the whole market as the people buying/living there would not have to go somewhere else.

Ever at the end of a very long que for a supermarket checkout, then they open another till. Will only the people at the top of the que benefit from the extra till being opened?

You mean the above capacity green line that is about to have cherrywood lupmed into it? That luas?

I gave some example prices from the Dun Laoghaire development, arguably Milltown is a better location, so prices will be even higher. The people buy in this development for, lets say 500K are were looking at other developments for 500K, they didnt go from a 250K buyer to a 500K one.

It doesnt help me queueing in Lidl if BT open another till, no.

ittakestwo

GreeBo wrote: »

You mean the above capacity green line that is about to have cherrywood lupmed into it? That luas?

I gave some example prices from the Dun Laoghaire development, arguably Milltown is a better location, so prices will be even higher. The people buy in this development for, lets say 500K are were looking at other developments for 500K, they didnt go from a 250K buyer to a 500K one.

It doesnt help me queueing in Lidl if BT open another till, no.

I don't know what your point is. If they build on any land it will increase supply and have a knock on effect on the whole market. No?

kevinc565

Villa05 wrote: »

Personally I think a windfall tax of 70/80% on land designated commercial/residential or industrial as was the case from 2009 up to 2016 as the best option

Anyone now why the current sitting Gov abolished it. Was it just their links with wealthy large farmers or was there something more important

Another problem is the constant changes in the law. Why build and suffer a 70%(?) windfall tax when you know you can wait for the next government in 4-5 year who will change it.

This is one reason why i support the current CB mortgage rules, when they don't flip flop every year they create certainty.

GreeBo

ittakestwo wrote: »

I don't know what your point is. If they build on any land it will increase supply and have a knock on effect on the whole market. No?

My point is that building more expensive, high end houses doesnt do much for the people who cany find a 250K house to buy.

GreeBo

ittakestwo wrote: »

Because golf clubs take up huge amounts of land. You would fit about a 100 gyms in the space of one golf club. The Avia Stadium and Croker which both would fit into a golf club a few times over hold annual events where 50/80k turn up to, Miltown golf club doesn't. Go there during the weekday and there might be 10 Oap's on it...great use of land 4km from the CC? Visit the old DL golf club, they put in 1000 residential units, also created a public park and have shopping facility. Golf clubs belong out the N11, M1 or M4, not 4km from Dublin CC

again I'll ask, how much do you think units are going to cost on a site in Milltown, given the cost of the Dun Laoghaire ones?

Your argument is that this is prime real estate, just 4km from the city...so you reckon they are going to build a couple of hundred 2 bed apartments for 200K?
Or do you think they are going to build modern "village" with luxury houses and some apartments and have units from 500K well into the millions?


and your nonsense points about 10 OAPS are nonsense and dont help your argument.

eagle eye

ittakestwo wrote:

Because golf clubs take up huge amounts of land. You would fit about a 100 gyms in the space of one golf club. The Avia Stadium and Croker which both would fit into a golf club a few times over hold annual events where 50/80k turn up to, Miltown golf club doesn't. Go there during the weekday and there might be 10 Oap's on it...great use of land 4km from the CC? Visit the old DL golf club, they put in 1000 residential units, also created a public park and have shopping facility. Golf clubs belong out the N11, M1 or M4, not 4km from Dublin CC

You never mentioned the Phoenix park, you'd easily fit 20 golf courses in there.

ittakestwo

GreeBo wrote: »

My point is that building more expensive, high end houses doesnt do much for the people who cany find a 250K house to buy.

Of course it will. People who buy these new houses will leave the market meaning less demand for all other property on the market. There would be a trickle down affect on the price of a €250k house if they started building a load of €500k houses.

ittakestwo

eagle eye wrote: »

You never mentioned the Phoenix park, you'd easily fit 20 golf courses in there.

Thats a public space.... I am not a trespasser if I walk/run through the Phonix Park

JimmyVik

kevinc565 wrote: »

Another problem is the constant changes in the law. Why build and suffer a 70%(?) windfall tax when you know you can wait for the next government in 4-5 year who will change it.

This is one reason why i support the current CB mortgage rules, when they don't flip flop every year they create certainty.

Agreed

Never underestimate certainty. Everything needs certainty to thrive. Thats why landlords have been leaving the market for some time now. Watch what happens pension contributions if FG touch pensions again. Certainty is paramount.

JimmyVik

eagle eye wrote: »

You never mentioned the Phoenix park, you'd easily fit 20 golf courses in there.

How many apartments would you get in a high rise in Stephens green.

JimmyVik

ittakestwo wrote: »

Of course it will. People who buy these new houses will leave the market meaning less demand for all other property on the market. There would be a trickle down affect on the price of a €250k house if they started building a load of €500k houses.

Im thinking house building is going to be severely cut back. I may be wrong, but i dont see how it wont be.

ittakestwo

JimmyVik wrote: »

How many apartments would you get in a high rise in Stephens green.

Green public space in the center of the city...no problem with it. At any given during the weekday you will have a few hundred people walking through it.

JimmyVik

ittakestwo wrote: »

Green public space in the center of the city...no problem with it. At any given during the weekday you will have a few hundred people walking through it.

What about fitzwillian square then? Or Dartmouth square.
Might as well tax the builders a bit more and make them put the parks back on top of the buildings with the proceeds.
Jaysus we have the green spaces in Dublin sorted along with housing.
We are making great progress here.
Id tax people for walking near a green space too. Better yet, CPO their gardens, and their parents gardens. Or Eamonn Ryans windowsill.
We wont stop til we CPO them all. Or tax them for having it. The bare faced cheek of them.

Me and you would make a great team.

Just kidding

Dwarf.Shortage

ittakestwo wrote: »

Thats a public space.... I am not a trespasser if I walk/run through the Phonix Park

Pay a green fee in Milltown you're not trespassing they're happy to have you I'm sure. Just because it isn't free doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.

ittakestwo

JimmyVik wrote: »

What about fitzwillian square then? Or Dartmouth square.

To get an idea of my point go to google satellite and look at the size of those parks which are being used as green areas and compare it to the area of golf club.

Sure the public park they left over in the old DL golf club after they build a 1000 residential units is bigger than both Fitzwilliam and Dartmouth park. And funny enough as a local from there the only time I have been on the grounds of the old DL golf club was to use the new public park and the Tesco they built there.

Dwarf.Shortage

ittakestwo wrote: »

To get an idea of my point go to google satellite and look at the size of those parks which are being used as green areas and compare it to the area of golf club.

Sure the public park they left over in the old DL golf club after they build a 1000 residential units is bigger than both Fitzwilliam and Dartmouth park. And funny enough as a local from there the only time I have been on the grounds of the old DL golf club was to use the new public park and the Tesco they built there.

So if someone is from Malahide but has never used the tennis courts they should be torn down? If you're from Whitehall and don't go near the GAA St. Vincents GAA Club should be CPO'd for the greater good and apartments built on it?

You not using it doesn't mean it should be repurposed.

As far as I am aware, Dun Laoghaire golf club was bought by a developer for a massive amount of money, he also included a new site for them to move to.
So, nothing to do with the local council or government, just a private business deal.

mcbert

So the 2020 Property Market. What about that then eh?

GreeBo

ittakestwo wrote: »

Of course it will. People who buy these new houses will leave the market meaning less demand for all other property on the market. There would be a trickle down affect on the price of a €250k house if they started building a load of €500k houses.

They leave the 500K market, they dont do squat for the 250K market.
Unless you reckon people who want to buy a 500K house in milltown, instead just go to a 250K in jobstown?

ittakestwo

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

So if someone is from Malahide but has never used the tennis courts they should be torn down? If you're from Whitehall and don't go near the GAA St. Vincents GAA Club should be CPO'd for the greater good and apartments built on it?

You not using it doesn't mean it should be repurposed.

The argument is being missed, Golf clubs take up HUGE amounts of land. They are not comparable to tennis clubs or gyms in the amount of land they take up.

They are also private, you cant go onto them unless you are a member. Given the huge amount of land they take up and the lack of public access to this huge amount of land it's obvious they are better off away from the city. Having Elm Pak, Miltown and Clontarf GP's all of which are 4km from the CC is such an inefficient use of urban land.

GreeBo

bubblypop wrote: »

As far as I am aware, Dun Laoghaire golf club was bought by a developer for a massive amount of money, he also included a new site for them to move to.
So, nothing to do with the local council or government, just a private business deal.

Shhhh dont ruin it with facts.

ittakestwo

bubblypop wrote: »

As far as I am aware, Dun Laoghaire golf club was bought by a developer for a massive amount of money, he also included a new site for them to move to.
So, nothing to do with the local council or government, just a private business deal.

The local council had to rezone the land residential for it all to happen. It was a really good move on behalf of DLRcoco, pity other councils aren't following.

ittakestwo

ittakestwo wrote: »

The local council had to rezone the land residential for it all to happen. It was a really good move on behalf of DLRcoco, pity other councils aren't following.

Sure that was never going to be an issue. It happened because a private developer could make lots of money by doing it.
Dun Laoghaire Rathdown were hardly going to refuse to rezone?

FVP3

fliball123 wrote: »

I argued that if someone has a buy to let then they must have a job that pays a good salary as they will have had to get a deposit for 2 houses.

There are other ways of owning property, its often inherited, or bought for cash ( which doesn't mean the person has otherwise a big income).

Plenty of landlords dont pay 51% so there isn't a landlord tax of 51%.

GreeBo

ittakestwo wrote: »

The local council had to rezone the land residential for it all to happen. It was a really good move on behalf of DLRcoco, pity other councils aren't following.

The council may have rezoned it, but the developer paid through the nose for it, and each unit owner is paying a significant amount of money to live there.

You are still ignoring the cost of units that are built by private developers on expensive land such as a golf club.

Also, the land was bought in 2002.....FOURTEEN years later units became available to purchase.

Dwarf.Shortage

ittakestwo wrote: »

The argument is being missed, Golf clubs take up HUGE amounts of land. They are not comparable to tennis clubs or gyms in the amount of land they take up.

They are also private, you cant go onto them unless you are a member. Given the huge amount of land they take up and the lack of public access to this huge amount of land it's obvious they are better off away from the city. Having Elm Pak, Miltown and Clontarf GP's all of which are 4km from the CC is such an inefficient use of urban land.

As I said in a previous post this is completely untrue, there are no truly private golf clubs in Ireland. From Milltown all the way up to Adare Manor a member of the public can play them having paid the requisite green fee. The only reason walking on them is trespassing is if you are not a member and/or haven't paid a green fee you're not insured if struck by a golf ball.

They are no different to the Botanic Gardens or any other space that requires a lot of maintenance and hence has to charge for their use. This idea that someone from Milltown who's not a member cannot use the golf course is completely incorrect.

GreeBo

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

They are no different to the Botanic Gardens or any other space that requires a lot of maintenance and hence has to charge for their use.

Or Phoenix park that the taxpayer pays for...