Property Market 2020

Hubertj

combat14 wrote: »

From another boards thread - looks like some tenants are stopping rent payments - wonder how long it will be till this is widespread? bound to have a downward affect on rents if this crisis continues which it appears to be the case.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058074447

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Tenant refusing to pay
Hi,

I am a landlord with a 2-bed apartment in North-West Dublin. I bought the apartment in 2018 (at age 28, with all my savings and a parental loan too!). Late last year I decided to go travelling with my girlfriend and move to Australia for a year or potentially two, and rented out the apartment.

The rent is 1,700 Euro per month. The tenant advised that their work has been stopped temporarily due to Covid-19, and is refusing to pay anything. They say when they get the rent supplement, they will give me that (a maximum of 900 Euro). However, they are refusing to contribute a single cent themselves. I've tried to open negotiations to a fair compromised rate during the pandemic but he refuses.

He only submitted the rent supplement form this week, despite claiming he lost his work 5 weeks ago. I was also conscious of renting for the first time and before signing the agreement had unofficial conversations with them asking about their savings etc., as I didn't want to have to evict a couple with a child. He promised he had savings. I explicitly asked about if he lost his job would he be OK for 3-6 months, and he promised he would be. I appreciate this isn't legally binding but I feel it shows that he is using this situation to take advantage of me.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I should proceed? I feel I've been fair with my assessment, but the next month's rent is due today and he has paid nothing. My parents suggested contacting a solicitor but they said they wouldn't get involved (I assume they don't want their name attached to any potential issues down the line). All the guidance from the government advises that tenants still have to pay their rent but all those messages are just being ignored.

I appreciate that there is little sympathy for landlords. However, I put all my savings into buying this apartment, and don't think I should be treated the same as some person who has 5 properties etc. I'm now working in Australia paying living costs, rent and bills for myself and my girlfriend, who is unable to get a job as over 800,000 Australians have been let go and the working holiday visa is quite restrictive for employers. This is on top of my mortgage/management fees etc. for the apartment at home.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Hopefully the landlord gets the non paying tenant out of their apartment. Doesn’t really matter what the rent is if someone thinks they should be allowed to live somewhere for free. Where will that tenant get a landlord reference for the next place they live?

JimmyVik

combat14 wrote: »

From another boards thread - looks like some tenants are stopping rent payments - wonder how long it will be till this is widespread? bound to have a downward affect on rents if this crisis continues which it appears to be the case.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058074447

----

Tenant refusing to pay
Hi,

I am a landlord with a 2-bed apartment in North-West Dublin. I bought the apartment in 2018 (at age 28, with all my savings and a parental loan too!). Late last year I decided to go travelling with my girlfriend and move to Australia for a year or potentially two, and rented out the apartment.

The rent is 1,700 Euro per month. The tenant advised that their work has been stopped temporarily due to Covid-19, and is refusing to pay anything. They say when they get the rent supplement, they will give me that (a maximum of 900 Euro). However, they are refusing to contribute a single cent themselves. I've tried to open negotiations to a fair compromised rate during the pandemic but he refuses.

He only submitted the rent supplement form this week, despite claiming he lost his work 5 weeks ago. I was also conscious of renting for the first time and before signing the agreement had unofficial conversations with them asking about their savings etc., as I didn't want to have to evict a couple with a child. He promised he had savings. I explicitly asked about if he lost his job would he be OK for 3-6 months, and he promised he would be. I appreciate this isn't legally binding but I feel it shows that he is using this situation to take advantage of me.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I should proceed? I feel I've been fair with my assessment, but the next month's rent is due today and he has paid nothing. My parents suggested contacting a solicitor but they said they wouldn't get involved (I assume they don't want their name attached to any potential issues down the line). All the guidance from the government advises that tenants still have to pay their rent but all those messages are just being ignored.

I appreciate that there is little sympathy for landlords. However, I put all my savings into buying this apartment, and don't think I should be treated the same as some person who has 5 properties etc. I'm now working in Australia paying living costs, rent and bills for myself and my girlfriend, who is unable to get a job as over 800,000 Australians have been let go and the working holiday visa is quite restrictive for employers. This is on top of my mortgage/management fees etc. for the apartment at home.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

This was always going to happen.
Yet another landlord who didnt think about the potential downsides of renting their property and is now paying the price.
And when he comes back from Australia he still wont get his apartment back.


People really need to look at the risk/reward profile of becoming a landlord.
If they did, they would run a mile. I really dont understand how anyone could become a landlord in this day and age. Leave it to the REITs.

handlemaster

combat14 wrote: »

From another boards thread - looks like some tenants are stopping rent payments - wonder how long it will be till this is widespread? bound to have a downward affect on rents if this crisis continues which it appears to be the case.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058074447

----

Tenant refusing to pay
Hi,

I am a landlord with a 2-bed apartment in North-West Dublin. I bought the apartment in 2018 (at age 28, with all my savings and a parental loan too!). Late last year I decided to go travelling with my girlfriend and move to Australia for a year or potentially two, and rented out the apartment.

The rent is 1,700 Euro per month. The tenant advised that their work has been stopped temporarily due to Covid-19, and is refusing to pay anything. They say when they get the rent supplement, they will give me that (a maximum of 900 Euro). However, they are refusing to contribute a single cent themselves. I've tried to open negotiations to a fair compromised rate during the pandemic but he refuses.

He only submitted the rent supplement form this week, despite claiming he lost his work 5 weeks ago. I was also conscious of renting for the first time and before signing the agreement had unofficial conversations with them asking about their savings etc., as I didn't want to have to evict a couple with a child. He promised he had savings. I explicitly asked about if he lost his job would he be OK for 3-6 months, and he promised he would be. I appreciate this isn't legally binding but I feel it shows that he is using this situation to take advantage of me.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I should proceed? I feel I've been fair with my assessment, but the next month's rent is due today and he has paid nothing. My parents suggested contacting a solicitor but they said they wouldn't get involved (I assume they don't want their name attached to any potential issues down the line). All the guidance from the government advises that tenants still have to pay their rent but all those messages are just being ignored.

I appreciate that there is little sympathy for landlords. However, I put all my savings into buying this apartment, and don't think I should be treated the same as some person who has 5 properties etc. I'm now working in Australia paying living costs, rent and bills for myself and my girlfriend, who is unable to get a job as over 800,000 Australians have been let go and the working holiday visa is quite restrictive for employers. This is on top of my mortgage/management fees etc. for the apartment at home.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Get a solicitor. No proof they even lost their job here. Be prepared to have to go 1 year with rent. The system is all towards the tenant.

This will not get better. They need to be evicted. Have the letters for over due rent sent etc. Be prepared this tenant will not sign for anything from the post office. . Have the solicitor know this plan accordingly

combat14

handlemaster wrote: »

Get a solicitor. No proof they even lost their job here. Be prepared to have to go 1 year with rent. The system is all towards the tenant.

This will not get better. They need to be evicted. Have the letters for over due rent sent etc. Be prepared this tenant will not sign for anything from the post office. . Have the solicitor know this plan accordingly

I think there is a legal moratorium on evictions during the ongoing covid crisis

JimmyVik

handlemaster wrote: »

Get a solicitor. No proof they even lost their job here. Be prepared to have to go 1 year with rent. The system is all towards the tenant.

This will not get better. They need to be evicted. Have the letters for over due rent sent etc. Be prepared this tenant will not sign for anything from the post office. . Have the solicitor know this plan accordingly

Isnt it sad that he would have been so much better off just not becoming a landlord and leaving his apartment empty while he was away.

lomb

It may be getting to the point of subletting to a company who let's to a tenant. Then if they don't pay rent throw their stuff out and let them sue company which has no assets.

hometruths

combat14 wrote: »

From another boards thread - looks like some tenants are stopping rent payments - wonder how long it will be till this is widespread? bound to have a downward affect on rents if this crisis continues which it appears to be the case.

In Canada there is a group trying to organise a mass rent strike, and some evidence it is growing.

It would be absolute chaos is something like this got going here.

We should keep our rent. Our landlords will be fine. We may not be. No tenant should feel forced to hand over so much money when faced with so much uncertainty. You should keep your rent. Whatever you have, hang on to it. Once you give it to your landlord, it’s gone. You won’t have it for food or for medicine. You won’t have it for you, your family, your friends, your neighbours, or your co-workers – no-one. Your landlord will have it. It will go in their bank account and it will secure their investments.

https://keepyourrent.com/

BillyBiggs

lomb wrote: »

It may be getting to the point of subletting to a company who let's to a tenant. Then if they don't pay rent throw their stuff out and let them sue company which has no assets.

How does it work for a landlord who let out a house through a letting agency? Not a landlord myself. Just interested in learning what a letting agency can/will do.

JimmyVik

BillyBiggs wrote: »

How does it work for a landlord who let out a house through a letting agency? Not a landlord myself. Just interested in learning what a letting agency can/will do.

Letting agency will just drop it.
They will keep their fees though.
Landlords problem. Landlords loss.

BillyBiggs

JimmyVik wrote: »

Letting agency will just drop it.
They will keep their fees though.
Landlords problem. Landlords loss.

Okay Jesus, I thought they might offer some insurance to landlords. They do little more than show the properties and do the contracts so.

JimmyVik

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Okay Jesus, I thought they might offer some insurance to landlords. They do little more than show the properties and do the contracts so.

Exactly. They collect the rent too and take their cut.
But if the tenant refuses to give the rent there is no cut for the agency in zero rent, so they just hand everything back to the landlord advising them to go through the legal process.

Honestly I would be surprised if that person who went to Australia even got their apartment back when they come home. The tenant can live rent free for as long as the RTB and courts take. When it was fast it was 1-2 years. God knows how long now.

PommieBast

combat14 wrote: »

I think there is a legal moratorium on evictions during the ongoing covid crisis

Yep there is.
Question is what about afterwards. It is pretty clear that the very second the moratorium is lifted, there will be an avalanche of eviction notices going out..

ladystardust

Sadly no, we had approval in principle and my husbands income has been affected. We managed to secure a smaller mortgage than the AIP was for.... but then declined mortgage protection because of an health issue 6 years ago that resolved and was never “officially closed off” by a health professional. Looking for any excuse.

cruizer101

JimmyVik wrote: »

This was always going to happen.
Yet another landlord who didnt think about the potential downsides of renting their property and is now paying the price.
And when he comes back from Australia he still wont get his apartment back.


People really need to look at the risk/reward profile of becoming a landlord.
If they did, they would run a mile. I really dont understand how anyone could become a landlord in this day and age. Leave it to the REITs.

I think thats a bit harsh, it sound like they bought the apartment with full intention of living there and then decided to travel.
Its reasonable enough to think you would be better renting out the apartment rather than leave it empty or selling and I'd say 95% of the time you would be right doing that. In this case the OP was just unlucky, its not like anyone could have predicted current circumstances.

I do agree people should think long and hard before investing in a property to rent but this case is different.

JimmyVik

cruizer101 wrote: »

I think thats a bit harsh, it sound like they bought the apartment with full intention of living there and then decided to travel.
Its reasonable enough to think you would be better renting out the apartment rather than leave it empty or selling and I'd say 95% of the time you would be right doing that. In this case the OP was just unlucky, its not like anyone could have predicted current circumstances.

I do agree people should think long and hard before investing in a property to rent but this case is different.

I agree with you 100%.
You should be able to do that easily, but you cant. The risk is too high and when it goes bad it goes VERY bad.

fliball123

PommieBast wrote: »

Yep there is.
Question is what about afterwards. It is pretty clear that the very second the moratorium is lifted, there will be an avalanche of eviction notices going out..

This is what I don't understand from the tenant what is their long game here. If they stop paying they are out as soon as the landlord gives them notice. One of the first things a landlord looks for off a tenant is a reference off your last landlord. Good luck with that..If someone stopped paying I would simply tell any landlord ringing for a reference on this tenant that he is a scumbag and I wouldn't let him within 100 metres of my property. Good luck with getting a new place to rent. This would also be not typical the owner is in Oz if they were in the country there is a lot of intimidation that you could bring to bear as in knocking on their door 4/5 times a day , ringing 30/40 times a day. I would hound the phuck out of anyone trying to take the p1$$

fliball123

Just on a different topic I have been arguing supply side is coming down. Myhome is down 400 properties since last Friday. Good luck anyone buying the pool of properties out there was p1$$ poor to begin with and its getting smaller by the day

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

Just on a different topic I have been arguing supply side is coming down. Myhome is down 400 properties since last Friday. Good luck anyone buying the pool of properties out there was p1$$ poor to begin with and its getting smaller by the day

I have been arguing that demand is coming down. Viewings down 100%.

Good luck anyone selling to the pool of buyers which number zero.

GreeBo

schmittel wrote: »

I have been arguing that demand is coming down. Viewings down 100%.

Good luck anyone selling to the pool of buyers which number zero.

Its a bit simplistic to make statements such as above but ignore the social distancing challenges everyone is facing.

eagle eye

schmittel wrote:

Good luck anyone selling to the pool of buyers which number zero.

I just signed contracts today. So you are incorrect that there are zero buyers. My sister agreed terms last week. She's a seller and buyer. Her own house was sale agreed six weeks ago and is at the contract signing stage next week with no issues, cash buyer.

greendom

Buying and Selling is of course nigh on impossible at the moment with no possibility of viewings but that may lead to pent up demand for people that want to buy a property but have been unable to, once restrictions are relaxed. I imagine prices will drop but it may take longer than people think to take effect

fliball123

schmittel wrote: »

I have been arguing that demand is coming down. Viewings down 100%.

Good luck anyone selling to the pool of buyers which number zero.

Have you any proof of this, have you proof of zero virtual viewings and zero sales as if you look at myhome sold section it shows over 200 properties sold in this country in the last 10 days?? So have you any proof or facts that dispute this or does fact just not meet with your narrative ?

Padre_Pio

Looking for opinions here.

Went sale agreed on a house just before lockdown. No other bidders AFAIK, just me and the seller. They had a price in mind that was at the top of what I thought the property was worth, but we agreed anyways.

8 weeks later, things are looking bleak with respect to the economy and property. I asked the seller to wait until June before proceeding, just until things settle down but they refused.

Gut tells me to pull out of sale, property will probably still be there in a few months anyways. What do people here think?

fliball123

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Looking for opinions here.

Went sale agreed on a house just before lockdown. No other bidders AFAIK, just me and the seller. They had a price in mind that was at the top of what I thought the property was worth, but we agreed anyways.

8 weeks later, things are looking bleak with respect to the economy and property. I asked the seller to wait until June before proceeding, just until things settle down but they refused.

Gut tells me to pull out of sale, property will probably still be there in a few months anyways. What do people here think?

It all depends on your own personal situation, do you need to buy? Supply is starting to dry up and personally if I was selling and agreed x and then someone pulled out thinking in 3/6 months time they want to buy my place for x - y (discount) I would simply pull the property until the market is on the way back up and if you look at the amount of property being taken off the market since corona came to our lives it is up over 11% being taken off and this is with some new property coming into the market as well. So I would be careful. If I was you I would say look currently I cant move due to corona / social distancing and ask if they can wait until the restrictions have been lifted. it buys you time if the property market tanks in the mean time you can pull out, if we have a V shaped recovery (which is not likely) you could go ahead. Also bear in mind your loan approval time span it may expire and in a few months time the banks may not lend to you.

pearcider

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Looking for opinions here.

Went sale agreed on a house just before lockdown. No other bidders AFAIK, just me and the seller. They had a price in mind that was at the top of what I thought the property was worth, but we agreed anyways.

8 weeks later, things are looking bleak with respect to the economy and property. I asked the seller to wait until June before proceeding, just until things settle down but they refused.

Gut tells me to pull out of sale, property will probably still be there in a few months anyways. What do people here think?

Go with your gut. We are heading for steep falls in property prices. At least back to 2012 inflation adjusted. Unemployment was 16% in 2012. We have already hit 16.5% and the central bank is predicting 25% in Q2. Madness to buy now.

hometruths

GreeBo wrote: »

Its a bit simplistic to make statements such as above but ignore the social distancing challenges everyone is facing.

Indeed, but I take it you saw the statement I was replying to?

PommieBast

fliball123 wrote: »

This is what I don't understand from the tenant what is their long game here.

Assuming the government would panic at the prospect of mass evictions and extend the eviction ban.

addaword

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Looking for opinions here.

Went sale agreed on a house just before lockdown. No other bidders AFAIK, just me and the seller. They had a price in mind that was at the top of what I thought the property was worth, but we agreed anyways.

8 weeks later, things are looking bleak with respect to the economy and property. I asked the seller to wait until June before proceeding, just until things settle down but they refused.

Gut tells me to pull out of sale, property will probably still be there in a few months anyways. What do people here think?

Was talking to an auctioneer the other day, he expects a fall of 30% before it is all over, what with a flood of old peoples homes hitting the market, the economy destroyed etc.

hometruths

eagle eye wrote: »

I just signed contracts today. So you are incorrect that there are zero buyers. My sister agreed terms last week. She's a seller and buyer. Her own house was sale agreed six weeks ago and is at the contract signing stage next week with no issues, cash buyer.

I was replying to a post arguing that supply was down because there were 400 less properties on myhome since last Friday.

I presume you did not start the purchasing process since last Friday, and clearly neither did your sister.

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

Have you any proof of this, have you proof of zero virtual viewings and zero sales as if you look at myhome sold section it shows over 200 properties sold in this country in the last 10 days?? So have you any proof or facts that dispute this or does fact just not meet with your narrative ?

I have zero proof of zero viewings, virtual or otherwise.

I was just engaging in tit for tat vacuous nonsense.

I don't have a narrative.