Property Market 2020

Mic 1972

Captainsatnav wrote: »

This old chestnut agian.

If only I could kick my blasted avocado habit...then I could buy a house. Oh well...

self entitlement isn't going to help, that's for sure

The_Conductor

Mic 1972 wrote: »

self entitlement isn't going to help, that's for sure

Some people are willing to make sacrifices that others consider too extreme or excessive. I never really 'got' that whole avocado thing- but there are people out there who smoke, drink, have gym memberships, decent VHI, Sky packages, iPhone 11s, regularly eat take-aways, go on 1-2 sun holidays a year etc. Then there are people who don't do any of these things.

People have a reasonable expectation to 'live' however, living and what are reasonable norms- will differ from person to person.

A singleton on a reasonable wage- could, if properly focused, save as much as an average couple on similar wages- but the singleton would be exceptional- and the couple would be using a chunk of their disposable income towards living expenses that the singleton might only dream about.

Swings and round-abouts. You only live once.

Experience_day

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If I could afford a house being single with an average salary anybody can, but most people aren't willing to make sacrifices

This. I didn't have TV, drank in rather than out, drove a 15 year old car and rented in a shít hole. Contrasted with my colleagues and peers who were out partying, nicer apartments etc.

Obviously no one shoe fits all but lots of those same friends and colleagues are bitching about not being able to afford places etc.

cnocbui

Captainsatnav wrote: »

This old chestnut agian.

If only I could kick my blasted avocado habit...then I could buy a house. Oh well...

Yeah, that old chestnut saw me buying my first house with a 65% deposit and paying the mortgage off within a year. But I didn't go on holidays, drink, smoke or spend money on having a good time, or drive a car that was less than 10 years old.

I certainly didn't buy a nice new build, I bought a relative dump.

awec

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I always found the avocado toast thing to be pretty patronising.

The_Conductor

awec wrote: »

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I agree.
Life is short enough- without spending a chunk of it in sheer misery.

cnocbui

awec wrote: »

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I always found the avocado toast thing to be pretty patronising.

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree.
Life is short enough- without spending a chunk of it in sheer misery.

The dump I bought had 3" flying cockroaches courtesy of the US, a few German cockroaches, and then there were the normal ones. Bull ants would come and go as they pleased. It had no insulation what so ever, so when it was 3° in the morning outside it was 4° in the bedroom when you got up and when it was 30° at 1 am in the morning you sprayed water on towels in the bedroom and had a fan blowing over them just to be able to get to sleep. And guess what, I wasn't miserable, because I never thought I was entitled to better at that age.

Yeah, too much hardship for you lot, that life's to short trope. But you know what, I was only in there for two years and then sold it for 65% more than I paid for it. Now I own two properties, the one I live in has a lovely view, is roomy, no neighbours, no crime, and I haven't had a mortgage for a decade.

I don't regret the cockroaches, massive huntsman spiders or ants or the sloping floor one bit. There is a reason other countries refer to a property ladder - one rung at a time. You want a property elevator, fair do's if you can pull it off, I'd rather be free of a mortgage before I was 30.

Mic 1972

awec wrote: »

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I always found the avocado toast thing to be pretty patronising.

Utterly miserable is not how I would describe my life, I can have fun without getting plastered at the pubs every week end, and I dont drive an expensive car and during my rent years I was sharing instead of having the place to myself

Now I'm mortgage free and planning to buy a second property. I would feel miserable if I was still paying rent or mortgage at my age

Mic 1972

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree.
Life is short enough- without spending a chunk of it in sheer misery.

A life spent complaining about high rent and greedy LLS doesn't sound much fun to me

Captainsatnav

cnocbui wrote: »

Yeah, that old chestnut saw me buying my first house with a 65% deposit and paying the mortgage off within a year. But I didn't go on holidays, drink, smoke or spend money on having a good time, or drive a car that was less than 10 years old.

I certainly didn't buy a nice new build, I bought a relative dump.

Fair play

Umaro

cnocbui wrote: »

The dump I bought had 3" flying cockroaches courtesy of the US, a few German cockroaches, and then there were the normal ones. Bull ants would come and go as they pleased. It had no insulation what so ever, so when it was 3° in the morning outside it was 4° in the bedroom when you got up and when it was 30° at 1 am in the morning you sprayed water on towels in the bedroom and had a fan blowing over them just to be able to get to sleep. And guess what, I wasn't miserable, because I never thought I was entitled to better at that age.

Yeah, too much hardship for you lot, that life's to short trope. But you know what, I was only in there for two years and then sold it for 65% more than I paid for it. Now I own two properties, the one I live in has a lovely view, is roomy, no neighbours, no crime, and I haven't had a mortgage for a decade.

I don't regret the cockroaches, massive huntsman spiders or ants or the sloping floor one bit. There is a reason other countries refer to a property ladder - one rung at a time. You want a property elevator, fair do's if you can pull it off, I'd rather be free of a mortgage before I was 30.

Would it be fair to sum up your point as "I suffered, so you should suffer too." ?

Cyrus

Umaro wrote: »

Would it be fair to sum up your point as "I suffered, so you should suffer too." ?

I'd take it as it's not that easy buy a house but it's possible if you sacrifice a bit

Experience_day

awec wrote: »

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I always found the avocado toast thing to be pretty patronising.

My experience wasn't miserable at all. In fact quite the opposite. I had people round, I learned a lot of cheap hobbies. Having a nice 3 bed detached house now with space to play around beats having rocked an old Samsung, canned beer and Aldi food.

I genuinely don't think people appreciate the benefits of deferred gratification.

Again different strokes for different folks. I know I could have saved up now for another house, but I'm not that driven. Well I might if people's predictions about 20 percent drops come true lol.

cnocbui

Umaro wrote: »

Would it be fair to sum up your point as "I suffered, so you should suffer too." ?

No. How about; don't complain to me about the high cost of housing when it's high, precisely because most people want it now and are prepared to take on huge levels of debt to get it now and have driven up prices.

Graham

cnocbui wrote: »

There is a reason other countries refer to a property ladder - one rung at a time.

I think there's a large element of truth to that cnocbui.

Whether it's expectation or availability we're almost incapable of delivering anything other than 3 and 4 bed semis in the burbs.

I'd be all for seeing the planning process used to enforce a better mix of properties.

pearcider

pearcider wrote: »

There was 1700 properties to rent in Dublin city exactly a month ago. Now it’s 2031. I’ll be keeping an eye on that number.

Well its a month later and we are up to 2,454. A steady increase but nothing to worry landlords yet. However I still see a perfect storm facing rents this year. Not only do we have a cyclical recession and covid 19 we have a crazy amount of student accommodation and hotels coming on stream recently. This will exert huge downward pressure on the rental market in Dublin. Now with tourism and foreign student numbers under severe pressure for next year, the bottom of the market could be a long way down.

lisasimpson

awec wrote: »

In fairness subjecting yourself to an utterly miserable existence shouldn’t be a prerequisite to buying a home.

I always found the avocado toast thing to be pretty patronising.

Just because your saving and making sacrifices doesnt mean your living a miserable life. Its been a bit senseible. I dropped sky if i wanted to see a match i popped down to the pub. I still went to GAA matches. Would cancel netflix subs for the summer and i wouldnt be home much to walk it. Instead of full gym membership used pay as you go classes or 3 month membership and then when weather was good out for walks and runs no need for the gym.
I still went on holidays and city breaks. Off peak travel and airb&b. Myself and a housemate would do taxi for each other if one of us wasnt going out for a night and the other was. Having decent wifi meant i had a pay as you go phone and just connected the phone to the wifi in the apartment. Still would meet friends for brunch. Make sure tax credits are up to date and in jan claim your refunds every year. Have a jar of tea or coffee in the drawer at work but can still treat yourself to a bought coffee a couple of times a week. Bulk up dinners with extra veg to have extra for lunch the next day
Small sacrifices and you can still enjoy life.

Claw Hammer

pearcider wrote: »

Well its a month later and we are up to 2,454. A steady increase but nothing to worry landlords yet. However I still see a perfect storm facing rents this year. Not only do we have a cyclical recession and covid 19 we have a crazy amount of student accommodation and hotels coming on stream recently. This will exert huge downward pressure on the rental market in Dublin. Now with tourism and foreign student numbers under severe pressure for next year, the bottom of the market could be a long way down.

There are still thousads of homeless. there is potential to migrate the homeless from hostels and hotels to normal housing. it will all depend on what the LAs and the DOH do about it. the behavior of the banks will also have a big influence on the situation. They were very slow to deal with delinquent landlords last time round. this time they might appoint receivers and sell straight away.

Padre_Pio

pearcider wrote: »

Well its a month later and we are up to 2,454. A steady increase but nothing to worry landlords yet. However I still see a perfect storm facing rents this year. Not only do we have a cyclical recession and covid 19 we have a crazy amount of student accommodation and hotels coming on stream recently. This will exert huge downward pressure on the rental market in Dublin. Now with tourism and foreign student numbers under severe pressure for next year, the bottom of the market could be a long way down.

A 30% increase in two months is pretty stark.

Still too early to draw any conclusions. July will be the litmus test when companies will either open their doors, or keep them closed forever.

Mic 1972

cnocbui wrote: »

No. How about; don't complain to me about the high cost of housing when it's high, precisely because most people want it now and are prepared to take on huge levels of debt to get it now and have driven up prices.

Excellent point

Icepick

lisasimpson wrote: »

Just because your saving and making sacrifices doesnt mean your living a miserable life. Its been a bit senseible. I dropped sky if i wanted to see a match i popped down to the pub. I still went to GAA matches. Would cancel netflix subs for the summer and i wouldnt be home much to walk it. Instead of full gym membership used pay as you go classes or 3 month membership and then when weather was good out for walks and runs no need for the gym.
I still went on holidays and city breaks. Off peak travel and airb&b. Myself and a housemate would do taxi for each other if one of us wasnt going out for a night and the other was. Having decent wifi meant i had a pay as you go phone and just connected the phone to the wifi in the apartment. Still would meet friends for brunch. Make sure tax credits are up to date and in jan claim your refunds every year. Have a jar of tea or coffee in the drawer at work but can still treat yourself to a bought coffee a couple of times a week. Bulk up dinners with extra veg to have extra for lunch the next day
Small sacrifices and you can still enjoy life.

The whole you have to consume as much as possible to enjoy life is bull**** in the first place.
Don't waste your disposable income on disposable experiences.

Hubertj

Padre_Pio wrote: »

A 30% increase in two months is pretty stark.

Still too early to draw any conclusions. July will be the litmus test when companies will either open their doors, or keep them closed forever.

I think it will be later than July before full effects are known.... I know that Google have a backlog of about 150 people due to relocate to Ireland from other countries whic has built up over last couple of months. My company has offers with 55 people in India but we don’t know when we can relocate them to Ireland...

GreeBo

Umaro wrote: »

Would it be fair to sum up your point as "I suffered, so you should suffer too." ?

only if you sum up the contrary opinion as "Other people have nice houses so I should have one too"

OttoPilot

cnocbui wrote: »

The dump I bought had 3" flying cockroaches courtesy of the US, a few German cockroaches, and then there were the normal ones. Bull ants would come and go as they pleased. It had no insulation what so ever, so when it was 3° in the morning outside it was 4° in the bedroom when you got up and when it was 30° at 1 am in the morning you sprayed water on towels in the bedroom and had a fan blowing over them just to be able to get to sleep. And guess what, I wasn't miserable, because I never thought I was entitled to better at that age.

Yeah, too much hardship for you lot, that life's to short trope. But you know what, I was only in there for two years and then sold it for 65% more than I paid for it. Now I own two properties, the one I live in has a lovely view, is roomy, no neighbours, no crime, and I haven't had a mortgage for a decade.

I don't regret the cockroaches, massive huntsman spiders or ants or the sloping floor one bit. There is a reason other countries refer to a property ladder - one rung at a time. You want a property elevator, fair do's if you can pull it off, I'd rather be free of a mortgage before I was 30.

Nobody should be making a 65% gain from a residential property in two years. Did wages also go up 65%?

Graham

OttoPilot wrote: »

Nobody should be making a 65% gain from a residential property in two years.

If somebody buys a fixer-upper and spends the time/money to bring it up to standard, a 65% increase in market price is not the same as a 65% gain.

OttoPilot

Graham wrote: »

If somebody buys a fixer-upper and spends the time/money to bring it up to standard, a 65% increase in market price is not the same as a 65% gain.

Agreed. There was no mention of how much OP spent on time/money however.

TSQ

OttoPilot wrote: »

Nobody should be making a 65% gain from a residential property in two years. Did wages also go up 65%?

What a miserable begrudger you are. If the op had lost 60% on an investment property he poured his savings into in the hope of a decent income in retirement (because only civil servants still have guaranteed, pay related pensions nowadays) you would be crowing. He worked hard, he lived frugally, he took a chance when many were still afraid to invest in property, and is now providing a home to someone else. Did he just get lucky, or is he one of those smart people who keeps up with the financial news rather than the Khardasians? Either way, fair play.

Dav010

OttoPilot wrote: »

Nobody should be making a 65% gain from a residential property in two years. Did wages also go up 65%?

Why?

OttoPilot

TSQ wrote: »

What a miserable begrudger you are. If the op had lost 60% on an investment property he poured his savings into in the hope of a decent income in retirement (because only civil servants still have guaranteed, pay related pensions nowadays) you would be crowing. He worked hard, he lived frugally, he took a chance when many were still afraid to invest in property, and is now providing a home to someone else. Did he just get lucky, or is he one of those smart people who keeps up with the financial news rather than the Khardasians? Either way, fair play.

Nope. I believe if he lost money on sale of a house, he should be compensated in tax refunds. I dont believe in the financialization of primary residence homes. There is too much speculation in property.

If I told you I was going to borrow 200k and put it all in the stock market, would you say fair play or would you think I was an fool? Probably the latter. People should not be making investments on the basis of borrowed money. Taxation of these gains and relief on losses would prevent this.

OttoPilot

Dav010 wrote: »

Why?

Excluding any potential improvements made by op, simply put wages did not increase by the same amount. So the only way the house price could increase that much is if people are borrowing more I.e. an asset bubble.