Property Market 2020

Graham

Mod Note

Neutral Guy,

if there are elements of the Irish property market or living in Ireland that you don't understand or agree with, please take them to a separate thread rather than derailing this thread further.

Some off-topic posts have been deleted.

Woshy

Woshy wrote: »

We are sale agreed on a house and after a lot of soul searching and agonising we are proceeding. We signed the contracts the end of last week. We're not sure if the vendors will sign as they are also purchasing a property. They may pull out and if so, we're ok with that. It is what it is. This is our long-term family house and we're looking in a very specific area for family reasons and a property has been hard to find.

We have a decent deposit as we're not first time buyers and the mortgage we will be taking is a good bit below what we had been approved for. We purposely didn't want to go too mad. We also have a good amount left in our savings after paying the deposit.

The mortgage will be 18% of our current income and we think both our jobs are fairly secure (especially mine). We did a lot of sums on how we would afford the mortgage on one salary and how that would work. The rate is fixed for three years so we know what payments will be.

I don't feel great about it, we really weren't sure if we would pull out or not but given all the info we made the best decision we could. Time will tell, I guess!

I posted this three months ago - and it feels like a lifetime ago now! We moved in 6 weeks ago and we are thrilled with the house and so glad we proceeded with the purchase. Even just having the extra space while we're all stuck in the house has been so good for my mental health.

Lockdown was a strange time to move but we got there in the end. Both our jobs remain very secure and a lot of the anxiety I had has lifted. This is our longterm house and we were extremely picky on location (within 2 square km) so it would have taken a while for something else suitable to come up - knowing this is a 20+ year house means I'm not really concerned with price drops too.

I will say we are very glad we didn't borrow the max amount we were offered and that we didn't stretch ourselves. We could have spent 100k more and gone bigger but with all that has gone on it has made us a lot happier to borrow less money.

Best of luck to anyone else going through purchases!

neutral guy

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

Neutral Guy,

if there are elements of the Irish property market or living in Ireland that you don't understand or agree with, please take them to a separate thread rather than derailing this thread further.

Some off-topic posts have been deleted.

OK,can you explain me here and forever .Why I have rent the property for 8 months if I bought house already .Thank you.

fret_wimp2

neutral guy wrote: »

OK,can you explain me here and forever .Why I have rent the property for 8 months if I bought house already .Thank you.

without specific details of your particular case, its impossible to give an explanation.

One of the parties could be in a chain.
The property could be under probate.
There could be a boundary dispute.
The other party may have asked the solicitor to slow proceedings while they get some affairs in order (including any of the aforementioned issues).

Im sure others could come up with a dozen more reason why a sale may be held up.
Without having details of your specific case, its all speculation.

TheSheriff

Woshy wrote: »

I posted this three months ago - and it feels like a lifetime ago now! We moved in 6 weeks ago and we are thrilled with the house and so glad we proceeded with the purchase. Even just having the extra space while we're all stuck in the house has been so good for my mental health.

Lockdown was a strange time to move but we got there in the end. Both our jobs remain very secure and a lot of the anxiety I had has lifted. This is our longterm house and we were extremely picky on location (within 2 square km) so it would have taken a while for something else suitable to come up - knowing this is a 20+ year house means I'm not really concerned with price drops too.

I will say we are very glad we didn't borrow the max amount we were offered and that we didn't stretch ourselves. We could have spent 100k more and gone bigger but with all that has gone on it has made us a lot happier to borrow less money.

Best of luck to anyone else going through purchases!

Congratulations on your purchase !!

Sounds like you made the right decision for you, and can forget about the ups and downs of the property market !

Donald Trump

The_Conductor wrote: »

I think that the entire rental sector should be taxed in an identical manner.
I'd argue that a flatrate tax of, say, 25% of rental income, with no allowances or deductions- applied in an identical manner, across the board- would be fair and equitable.

With 356,500 private rented units in Ireland and a standardised average national rent rate of €1,129 (Jan 2019 figures, according to the RTB)- this means the private rental market is worth in the region of 5 billion- and a flatrate tax @ 25% would be worth approximately 1.25 billion to the exchequer.

I have no idea what landlords are currently paying to the exchequer (as-in- a total)- but it must be a portion of the 1.25 billion that I suggest would accrue with a 25% flatrate tax on gross rental incomes.

Happy days then for the fella on 200k in the IFSC. No more 50% tax for him. His salary can change to 17k per year cash plus the use of a few apartments for a rent of 1 Euro a year. He can sublet these if he wants...and of course only pay 25% on the rental income........

Graham

Mod Note

discussion of who owns mortgaged properties moved into a separate thread

1sttimebuyer20

Woshy wrote: »

I posted this three months ago - and it feels like a lifetime ago now! We moved in 6 weeks ago and we are thrilled with the house and so glad we proceeded with the purchase. Even just having the extra space while we're all stuck in the house has been so good for my mental health.

Lockdown was a strange time to move but we got there in the end. Both our jobs remain very secure and a lot of the anxiety I had has lifted. This is our longterm house and we were extremely picky on location (within 2 square km) so it would have taken a while for something else suitable to come up - knowing this is a 20+ year house means I'm not really concerned with price drops too.

I will say we are very glad we didn't borrow the max amount we were offered and that we didn't stretch ourselves. We could have spent 100k more and gone bigger but with all that has gone on it has made us a lot happier to borrow less money.

Best of luck to anyone else going through purchases!

Congrats, very similar situation myself, looking in an area of about 3-4km sq for over a year, was outbid a couple of times, was sale agreed on one. This week I’ve paid a booking deposit on a new build. I can already feel the weight lifted off my shoulders although I won’t fully relax until draw down.

I have maxed what I can borrow (single income buyer) but I’ve a 30% deposit and I’ve certainly no plans to ever enter the property market again. I think my deposit will safeguard against negative equity, I do fully expect a slight drop in prices next year, my guess is circa 5% (don’t ask me for quotes from anywhere, I’m simply guesstimating) but I’m happy to take that on the chin. My mortgage is more than affordable and will allow me to continue living very comfortably and that’s all I care about.

If anyone else is on the fence, I would advise to start making a decision one way or another, the 2nd hand market right now has a lot of panic buyers, 6 properties I viewed recently all have multiple bidders and are gone a fair chunk over asking prices so make your decision, but implement it at the right time for you

Villa05

ngunners wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/programme-for-government-wrong-to-put-faith-in-private-builders-1.4286542

This article is a great read, and a clear explanation of the government's role in exacerbating the housing crisis.

Unfortunately,the programme for government is a continuation of failed policies.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” - Albert Einstein

It is truly shocking that a Government is pursuing this policy to provide social homes. The people authorising this are top level public servants who benefited most from bench-marking public sector pay. Anyone responsible for this level overspending and waste in the private sector would not last long in there position


Paying half a million for something that could be done by councils for half that

The State and their agents are also active, buying up one quarter of all new market homes, for social housing last year. The “half a million euro” social home is now established in policy, and at a time when the Minister confirms an “all-in” cost of less than €250,000 nationally, for a two-bedroom apartment developed by local authorities.

At the end of 25 years, the State will own assets worth less than 5 per cent of its investment and the 11,500 families living in them will be homeless.

Another offshore fund has leases worth €750,000 each for social housing apartments, with the local authority responsible for maintenance.

It is truly depressing to be paying tax every week and then for it to be passed to foreign funds to fund extortionately priced property that can be delivered easily at a fraction of the cost



People often state here where are other political parties will get the money to implement their policies of delivering affordable homes, well the answer is well and truly in that article.


How can a Minister for finance stand over this level of waste and missed opportunity. Prudent Paschal!!!!!!!

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

It is truly shocking that a Government is pursuing this policy to provide social homes. The people authorising this are top level public servants who benefited most from bench-marking public sector pay. Anyone responsible for this level overspending and waste in the private sector would not last long in there position


Paying half a million for something that could be done by councils for half that












It is truly depressing to be paying tax every week and then for it to be passed to foreign funds to fund extortionately priced property that can be delivered easily at a fraction of the cost



People often state here where are other political parties will get the money to implement their policies of delivering affordable homes, well the answer is well and truly in that article.


How can a Minister for finance stand over this level of waste and missed opportunity. Prudent Paschal!!!!!!!

For the social housing that was delivered is it possible to get a view of the cost per unit to compare? Are social houses contracted to private sector for delivery or built by civil service - OPW etc?
I have no faith in public servants ability to manage such large scale projects, especially when their performance in procurement and project management is considered - children’s hospital most recent example.

wassie

Exaxctly. The civil service is no match for Tier One contractors whose sole purpose is to execute a construction contracts. The big money is made in variations to that contract.

ngunners wrote: »

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” - Albert Einstein

But did he really say that?

JimmyVik

wassie wrote: »

But did he really say that?

I heard he used to say it every day

Earthhorse

OwlsZat wrote: »

The paid advertising on the daft search page tells more of the story. The first ad is for the Capital Docks Residence. It's a stunning development at the mouth of the harbour built on the old U2 tower foundations. I was watching it for prices before JP Morgan bought it outright during the build before leasing it back to Kennedy Wilson for 20 years. Apartments range from 3k to 4k. I've been down around it a few times, appears a ghost town to me with a very low occupancy rate. It's a thing good Kennedy Wilson still have plenty money to splash on the No1 daft advertising space. Bodes well for it sitting almost idle for quite some time.

Not sure if this has been posted here already as the thread is quite huge but my understanding is that Google employees have been told that they can work from home until 2021. As such a lot of them situated in the docklands decided to return home and broke their leases. So there is less demand at the high end than ever right now. Not sure how this will work in the long run; I'm sure many of these employees are still paying Irish tax despite having returned to their home countries (and thus no longer resident). Many of them may return in the New Year so potentially it's just a blip but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Ozark707

Earthhorse wrote: »

Not sure how this will work in the long run; I'm sure many of these employees are still paying Irish tax despite having returned to their home countries (and thus no longer resident). Many of them may return in the New Year so potentially it's just a blip but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I have heard that some companies are telling employees they need to return to Ireland within 6 months of leaving (if they did). This has got to do with the 183 day tax residency rule.

GreeBo

Do people think that we will ever see some stable property prices?
I don't see how you avoid the cycles, they go high, people can't afford them, rents go up, prices go up even more due to commercial landlords, then the market tanks or government build social/affordable housing, prices drop, rents drop, commercials leave the market, prices drop further, mortgage becomes cheaper than renting, landlords re-enter the market and away we go again.

OwlsZat

Ozark707 wrote: »

I have heard that some companies are telling employees they need to return to Ireland within 6 months of leaving (if they did). This has got to do with the 183 day tax residency rule.

Wonder how far away we are from an EU wide workers tax.

Donald Trump

Ozark707 wrote: »

I have heard that some companies are telling employees they need to return to Ireland within 6 months of leaving (if they did). This has got to do with the 183 day tax residency rule.

Not if they had been working her for all the previous year. You would be tax resident for 2020 if you worked here most of 2019. Unless you applied split-year status which would be only really supposed to be for permanent moves.

brisan

IAmTheReign wrote: »

But large scale investors think in longer terms than 12 months.

If you have a choice in renting an apartment immediately for 1,600 or waiting 3 months to rent it at 2,000 you break even after just 15 months.

15 months @ 1,600 = 24,000
12 months @ 2,000 = 24,000

A year later and holding out for the higher rent is worth nearly 5,000.

27 months @ 1,600 = 43,200
24 months @ 2,000 = 48,000

And with the rent cap at 4% this difference gets compounded every 2 years when you can review the rent.

Assuming rents go back up to their previous levels during a worldwide recession with very high unemployment numbers and no emigration to ease the burden

brisan

sparkledrum wrote: »

I have had tenants in my property for almost 10 years. They have now decided to move back to Poland. I don't want to rent anymore, I want to sell the property. They're hoping to go mid August. Is it a really bad time to sell?

Sell now but at a realistic price
Do not wait till later in the year
If it needs work get your tradesmen lined up now .
Kitchen bathroom floors .painter etc

JimmyVik

GreeBo wrote: »

Do people think that we will ever see some stable property prices?
I don't see how you avoid the cycles, they go high, people can't afford them, rents go up, prices go up even more due to commercial landlords, then the market tanks or government build social/affordable housing, prices drop, rents drop, commercials leave the market, prices drop further, mortgage becomes cheaper than renting, landlords re-enter the market and away we go again.

The biggest single factor in why house prices are so high in Ireland is that there was a point in the 90s where women were encouraged into the workforce. Over the years it became more common, so you had more double income couples competing for properties and they wiped the floor with single income bidders. This just grew and grew to the point where it is very rare now to buy a property on one income.

accensi0n

JimmyVik wrote: »

The biggest single factor in why house prices are so high in Ireland is that there was a point in the 90s where women were encouraged into the workforce. Over the years it became more common, so you had more double income couples competing for properties and they wiped the floor with single income bidders. This just grew and grew to the point where it is very rare now to buy a property on one income.

Yep, this is exactly why I have two wives.

brisan

Back in the olden days whe I got my first mortgage you could borrow 3 times the primary earner and 1 times the secondary earner
At the time I was a 4th year apprentice and wife to be was a civil servant earning more than me
I was classed as the primary earner as it was assumed my wife would give up work when a baby arrived
Not if a baby arrived but when
That was the days of 16% interest rates
Yes folks 16%

cnocbui

It really is a global phenomenon:

1 in 4 teleworkers mulling ditching Japan’s big cities for rural areas

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13479412

cnocbui

brisan wrote: »

Back in the olden days whe I got my first mortgage you could borrow 3 times the primary earner and 1 times the secondary earner
At the time I was a 4th year apprentice and wife to be was a civil servant earning more than me
I was classed as the primary earner as it was assumed my wife would give up work when a baby arrived
Not if a baby arrived but when
That was the days of 16% interest rates
Yes folks 16%

I remember having a property related investment that paid me 17.5%

Billythekid19

Proof that the market is taking a tumble. Came across this house built in 2007 and is selling for 135k. You can barley buy a site in a lot of places In cork for that price. Fair enough this address is 50k from cork city but surely ideal for someone wfh or a ftb. https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/18-radharc-na-coille-rathcoole-mallow-cork-p51-y3ek

cnocbui

Billythekid19 wrote: »

Proof that the market is taking a tumble. Came across this house built in 2007 and is selling for 135k. You can barley buy a site in a lot of places In cork for that price. Fair enough this address is 50k from cork city but surely ideal for someone wfh or a ftb. https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/18-radharc-na-coille-rathcoole-mallow-cork-p51-y3ek

I'd say it's slightly closer to Limerick than Cork. :cool:

One swallow does not a summer make. It's not proof of anything. It hasn't sold yet, and location, location it doesn't have.

Marius34

Looking at today's BidX1 Auction, seems like all houses up to 500K, got sold in Dublin Co.
This one appears to have a heated bidding war, from 260K to 468K.
https://bidx1.com/en/en-ie/auction/property/42570
Which can't even be called a house, but rather a piece of land. If I'm not wrong, you can't even build a house with good size garden, as it has less than 100sqm of total land (house + garden combined).

TheSheriff

Billythekid19 wrote: »

Proof that the market is taking a tumble. Came across this house built in 2007 and is selling for 135k. You can barley buy a site in a lot of places In cork for that price. Fair enough this address is 50k from cork city but surely ideal for someone wfh or a ftb. https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/18-radharc-na-coille-rathcoole-mallow-cork-p51-y3ek

I don't think a single property listing in Mallow tells us much. Its a significant distance from Cork city.

I worked there many years ago, you brought back some memories!

TheSheriff

Marius34 wrote: »

Looking at today's BidX1 Auction, seems like all houses up to 500K, got sold in Dublin Co.
This one appears to have a heated bidding war, from 260K to 468K.
https://bidx1.com/en/en-ie/auction/property/42570
Which can't even be called a house, but rather a piece of land. If I'm not wrong, you can't even build a house with good size garden, as it has less than 100sqm of total land (house + garden combined).

Now that is maddness!

Top Dog

cnocbui wrote: »

I'd say it's slightly closer to Limerick than Cork. :cool:.

81km to Limerick, 51km to Cork

Am I missing something, or do auctioneera have no map links? Just a single satellite image?