Property Market 2020

Villa05

The Student wrote:

I seen the same segment. The woman in the piece was 49 married with one child. You would expect people of this age to have purchased a property in their mid to late 20's which would have been the norm. So this woman would have been in her mid to late 20's in the mid to late 90's (well before the property prices went crazy) so the question to ask is why she did not.

mid to late 90's was the period of the craziest price rises. % rates were much higher. may not have met mortgage criteria.

The Student wrote:

I find it ironic that society has to take responsibility for peoples life choices? This woman seemed capable enough having rented for the last 20 yrs so has the ability to cover rent.

irish property was like a casino. the prudent person would avoid it. this woman is paying the price for a mismanaged economy through higher rents and taxes so that banks can be more proitable (and tax free)

Billythekid19

The_Conductor wrote: »

The sheer misery of commuting in Dublin- isn't a sufficient deterrent for most MNCs who consistently state they want their main Irish base to be in Dublin. When their staff are polled- the majority of the 20-somethings, also, advocate a Dublin location.

Working in Dublin- with its commuting hell and frankly ridiculous accommodation issues- are not putting the multinationals off looking for their Dublin offices/distribution centres/manufacturing etc- and similarly- investing in infrastructure for Carrick, Westport, Tralee and elsewhere- is not going to be the magic bullet that some people imagine for those areas.

Yes- we need better public transport options- and above all else, a plentiful supply of affordable accommodation for our workers. However, increasingly, our young multinational and multicultural workers- are telling their managers where they are willing to locate to- and when Ireland comes up- Carrick, Westport and Tralee- do not feature on the list of places that our young workers want to migrate to (notwithstanding the commuting hell, lack of accommodation, scandalous childcare costs and cost of living issues associated with Dublin and its general environs).

We only have one city of international note in Ireland- Dublin- we're kidding ourselves when we imagine we can shovel some largess into Co. Leitrim- or the far side of Mayo- and presto, international companies will move their facilities there. I'm sorry- its wishful thinking.

In that case it is the choice of the young 20 somethings to endure 'commuting hell, lack of accommodation, scandalous childcare costs and cost of living issues'. Locating outside of Dublin has been hugely successful for the likes of Apple. They bucked the trend and located in Hollyhill in Cork (area is akin to Moyross or Ballymun) and now has a well educated worforce of 5000 people(very diverse mix of local and international employees). Dell located at a greenfield site in Cork in the 80's and now employs thousands of skilled graduates. So it can be done.

Fol20

JamesMason wrote: »

And another brain drain of young Irish talent. Take a bow FG

Irish people are not emigrating on mass so I wouldn’t go quite that far.

AlmightyCushion

Billythekid19 wrote: »

In that case it is the choice of the young 20 somethings to endure 'commuting hell, lack of accommodation, scandalous childcare costs and cost of living issues'. Locating outside of Dublin has been hugely successful for the likes of Apple. They bucked the trend and located in Hollyhill in Cork (area is akin to Moyross or Ballymun) and now has a well educated worforce of 5000 people(very diverse mix of local and international employees). Dell located at a greenfield site in Cork in the 80's and now employs thousands of skilled graduates. So it can be done.

Cork is hardly Tralee, Carrick or Westport which is what the conductor was replying to. Big companies typically set up in cities and large urban areas. They go there because that is where the people are.

The IDA is trying but it's hard to attract these companies to places other than the cities.

Fol20

The_Conductor wrote: »

The sheer misery of commuting in Dublin- isn't a sufficient deterrent for most MNCs who consistently state they want their main Irish base to be in Dublin. When their staff are polled- the majority of the 20-somethings, also, advocate a Dublin location.

Working in Dublin- with its commuting hell and frankly ridiculous accommodation issues- are not putting the multinationals off looking for their Dublin offices/distribution centres/manufacturing etc- and similarly- investing in infrastructure for Carrick, Westport, Tralee and elsewhere- is not going to be the magic bullet that some people imagine for those areas.

Yes- we need better public transport options- and above all else, a plentiful supply of affordable accommodation for our workers. However, increasingly, our young multinational and multicultural workers- are telling their managers where they are willing to locate to- and when Ireland comes up- Carrick, Westport and Tralee- do not feature on the list of places that our young workers want to migrate to (notwithstanding the commuting hell, lack of accommodation, scandalous childcare costs and cost of living issues associated with Dublin and its general environs).

We only have one city of international note in Ireland- Dublin- we're kidding ourselves when we imagine we can shovel some largess into Co. Leitrim- or the far side of Mayo- and presto, international companies will move their facilities there. I'm sorry- its wishful thinking.

How about Cork, Galway or limerick. They are not as small as Westport etc but still offer young people most of the amenities they look for?

SozBbz

Billythekid19 wrote: »

In that case it is the choice of the young 20 somethings to endure 'commuting hell, lack of accommodation, scandalous childcare costs and cost of living issues'. Locating outside of Dublin has been hugely successful for the likes of Apple. They bucked the trend and located in Hollyhill in Cork (area is akin to Moyross or Ballymun) and now has a well educated worforce of 5000 people(very diverse mix of local and international employees). Dell located at a greenfield site in Cork in the 80's and now employs thousands of skilled graduates. So it can be done.

No one is saying multinationals can't located outside Dublin, Cork is also a city.

Thurles on the otherhand....

Billythekid19

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Cork is hardly Tralee, Carrick or Westport which is what the conductor was replying to. Big companies typically set up in cities and large urban areas. They go there because that is where the people are.

The IDA is trying but it's hard to attract these companies to places other than the cities.

Ok fair point theres a big jump between Cork and Westport.
But I dont see why Cork , Galway and Limerick cant become hubs for large multinationals on a greater scale than at present. I reckon a lot of 20 somethings would bite your hand off to relocate to these cities if it meant a higher standard of living, cheaper rent , reduced commuting times.

Fol20

beauf wrote: »

You don't have to copy everywhere else and their problems.

Its not to accommodate rural ireland. Its to improve the quality of life for the whole country.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/state-accused-of-anti-rural-bias-over-number-of-ida-site-visits-1.4133223

Yes but he rightly pointed out that the government dont choose where these MNC set base camp, they choose it and its a chicken and egg situation. Companies go where the workforce is. Dublin attracts all the employees as thats where the jobs are.

How can you attract a young worker to a small town where amenities may not have a lot to offer and if they leave the one company in town, they are forced to uproot completely and go back to dublin. Those prospects dont sound too appealing to me.

SozBbz

Fol20 wrote: »

Yes but he rightly pointed out that the government dont choose where these MNC set base camp, they choose it and its a chicken and egg situation. Companies go where the workforce is. Dublin attracts all the employees as thats where the jobs are.

How can you attract a young worker to a small town where amenities may not have a lot to offer and if they leave the one company in town, they are forced to uproot completely and go back to dublin. Those prospects dont sound too appealing to me.

Yeah this is what kills it for me. Moving employers is normal (near expected) in my industry. People move to climb the career lader, get more money, better terms etc. I've worked for 4 companies in my career and (although i have moved house within Dublin for my own reasons) I've never needed to relocate.

Buying into a town where there is really only one show in town is not appealing to me. Actually is quite scary. If for whatevre reason that employer doesnt work out for me, then I've to uproot my whole life?

PommieBast

SozBbz wrote: »

A multinational doesnt want to limit itself to the people of a mid size town as its work force. They want to be able to attract the best, and experience shows that you get that by locating in desirable urban centers.

This is exactly what happened with Intel. It has an R&D Office in Shannon (tax/grant reasons I suspect) but a large number of people who on paper work there actually work from the Leixlip site just outside Dublin.

AlmightyCushion

Billythekid19 wrote: »

Ok fair point theres a big jump between Cork and Westport.
But I dont see why Cork , Galway and Limerick cant become hubs for large multinationals on a greater scale than at present. I reckon a lot of 20 somethings would bite your hand off to relocate to these cities if it meant a higher standard of living, cheaper rent , reduced commuting times.

They are setting up and expanding in Cork, Galway and Limerick. That's why I used 'the cities' in the last line of the post I quoted. The housing and commuting issues whilst not as bad as Dublin are still bad in the other cities.

AlmightyCushion

SozBbz wrote: »

Yeah this is what kills it for me. Moving employers is normal (near expected) in my industry. People move to climb the career lader, get more money, better terms etc. I've worked for 4 companies in my career and (although i have moved house within Dublin for my own reasons) I've never needed to relocate.

Buying into a town where there is really only one show in town is not appealing to me. Actually is quite scary. If for whatevre reason that employer doesnt work out for me, then I've to uproot my whole life?

Even if it does work out for you at first, it might change at any stage in the future. Company closes down or struggles so there are cutbacks, redundancies or job losses. Your boss who was sound, leaves and is replaced by a díckhead. Work atmosphere becomes more toxic over time. Anything could happen. If there is a lot of companies in that field in a decent commutable distance, it isn't too bad. You dust off the CV and see what is out there. If there isn't what do you do?

This is why I don't think attracting a big company to the smaller towns is the right way to go. The place becomes too reliant on it. Instead we should be trying to attract smaller offices there that can grow relatively large over time. We should also try and cluster a good few companies in the same field in the same area. A software developer might not accept a job in Sligo because there even if there is a large dev company there because of the reasons you cite. However, if there was a relatively large dev sector there and a good 20 or 30 smallish dev companies there then they may be more likely to move there.

The problem is that is a slow and steady approach and people want big job announcements now.

Sleepy

Would the electorate stomach the reality of pursuing a policy of huge development of social housing?

Any movement towards mass scale development would have to come hand in glove with a complete re-evaluation / re-design of our housing policy:

The removal of the income limits for social housing applicants would lead to huge increases in the waiting lists
The ending of "right to buy" would no doubt lead to a loud whinge from those hoping to avail of generously discounted housing
The removal of an upper limit on differential rents would no doubt see some social housing rents surpass market value?
The introduction into some form of system of allocation of social housing units based on geographical need (i.e. one where the nurse needing accommodation in reasonable proximity to the hospital in which she works is given priority over the individual OAP or family who could be adequately housed elsewhere even if it's not as close to their family support network as they'd like) and an end to the "home for life" system whereby that notional nurse couldn't hold onto a prime location property 10 years after ceasing to work in the hospital without another legitimate reason for needing to be housed in that location).

The biggest problem faced by our social housing model would still remain however: if there's a constitutional right to be housed by the state, how can the state deal with those who refuse to pay their rent? There's no point in pursuing evictions if the end result of that eviction is that the state is obligated to re-house that delinquent tenant elsewhere. Could we deduct rent at source from social tenants? How would that work in the case of the self-employed? How about those social tenants who make their neighbours lives a misery? Are we prepared to follow the dutch and create "prison villages" where the dregs of society can be housed away from the rest of us? How do we keep those people there? What do we do in the case of the otherwise law abiding family who have a delinquent son or daughter that's causing these social problems?

And, obviously, any large scale development of new social housing would have to be paid for via higher taxation and / or cuts elsewhere. Where is this going to come from? The usual "easy" answer those on the left offer is increased taxation on corporations or "the elite". While personally I agree that corporation taxes are too low from an ideological point of view, this isn't something Ireland can change unilaterally and, indeed, as a small open economy with few resources beyond an educated, English-speaking workforce that are heavily dependent on FDI for employment, probably isn't something we *want* to tackle. As for "the elite"? Even our most left leaning political parties are opposed to any real taxation of property (the largest asset class held in the state). The farmers and rural Ireland in general will revolt at any suggestion of increased inheritance taxes. The introduction of water charges almost kicked off a civil war. Income taxation levels are already quite high and dependent on a fairly narrow base.

Obviously there are some loopholes which could be closed to reduce the scope of extremely high earners to engage in taxation avoidance but, even if the political appetite were there to tackle this, we'd likely just see more following the path taken by the likes of Denis O' Brien, JP McManus, Dermot Desmond, John Magnier et all and claiming tax exile status abroad while expecting the Irish public to fawn over them when they deign to donate a small portion of the tax liability they'd incur were they tax resident to a local hospital or sporting club (what's worse is the Irish public's tendency to give into this expectation).

Of course, there's plenty of savings to be made from waste in public sector spending. Again, though, these are often politically difficult to go after. Even "simple" things that make sense on paper like replacing children's allowance with tax credits and increased dependent child welfare payments that should lead to huge savings hit the problems of real politik when those savings come in the form of 300+ jobs in Letterkenny. Nevermind the trouble the PS unions would cause were we to try to genuine reform in areas like the Health service...

But, even if (and it's a big if) we found the political will to do any of the above would it raise enough in extra revenue / savings to pay for the development of tens of thousands of new homes in the areas we actually need them in?

The_Conductor

Fol20 wrote: »

How about Cork, Galway or limerick. They are not as small as Westport etc but still offer young people most of the amenities they look for?

Cork, Limerick and Galway- may not be as bad as Dublin- from a commuting and availability of accommodation and costs of other services, facilities and amenities- but they're not far behind. I don't follow the Limerick and Cork accommodation markets as closely as I do the Dublin and Galway markets- and if anything Galway is very probably worse than Dublin in terms of availability of accommodation- and commuting (I spent an infuriating 90 minutes on the Headford road a few evenings ago).

Being stuck in commuting misery in Galway- is as bad as being stuck in commuting misery in Dublin- and while childcare and other costs may be lower there (questionable whether they are or not), misery in one location- is akin to misery in another location.

Ireland needs to do away with this whole need to commute- and with frankly ridiculous costs associated with childcare, afterschool costs etc. Its not a Dublin versus the rest of the country issue- its a societal change that needs to happen in Ireland in general.

I would argue that there should be investment in remote working opportunities for private and public sector employees, where possible- to get people out of the daily commute. In addition- large volumes of high density accommodation units appropriately located- have to come on stream (and be available to buy or rent as people wish).

We're at a crossroads- where we have the opportunity to make choices without having them foisted on us by circumstances beyond our control- it would be incredibly short sighted to refuse to acknowledge what the issues actually are- and what our menu of options for remediating them are.

SozBbz

The_Conductor wrote: »

Ireland needs to do away with this whole need to commute- and with frankly ridiculous costs associated with childcare, afterschool costs etc. Its not a Dublin versus the rest of the country issue- its a societal change that needs to happen in Ireland in general.

I would argue that there should be investment in remote working opportunities for private and public sector employees, where possible- to get people out of the daily commute. In addition- large volumes of high density accommodation units appropriately located- have to come on stream (and be available to buy or rent as people wish).

We're at a crossroads- where we have the opportunity to make choices without having them foisted on us by circumstances beyond our control- it would be incredibly short sighted to refuse to acknowledge what the issues actually are- and what our menu of options for remediating them are.

This is the crux of the matter really.

I do think though that we're somewhat the architects of our own downfall however.

People often cite other European cities for their great standard of living and public transport, but the key structural difference is that people in those cities are happy to live and raise their families in apartments. Yes they have security of tenure, but as a concept many Irish people cannot fathom not having a house and a garden.

For everyone to have said house and garden, the natural consequence is suburban sprawl.

The by product of such sprawl is congestion and ineffective public transport. Everyone defaults to the car, because we can't built the quality of transport needed over such a dispersed area.


Its a fundamental change in mindset thats needed.

AlmightyCushion

SozBbz wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter really.

I do think though that we're somewhat the architects of our own downfall however.

People often cite other European cities for their great standard of living and public transport, but the key structural difference is that people in those cities are happy to live and raise their families in apartments. Yes they have security of tenure, but as a concept many Irish people cannot fathom not having a house and a garden.

For everyone to have said house and garden, the natural consequence is suburban sprawl.

The by product of such sprawl is congestion and ineffective public transport. Everyone defaults to the car, because we can't built the quality of transport needed over such a dispersed area.


Its a fundamental change in mindset thats needed.

I hate this argument. Many Irish (and many non-Irish living here) have no problem with apartment living. Plenty more would prefer to have a back garden but are more than willing to sacrifice it for an easier life/commute. People are living where ever they can right now. They'll take whatever they can get whether it has a garden or not. There isn't a single apartment block that is struggling to be filled (whether rentals or purchases) because people won't live there because they don't have a garden. It doesn't happen. People might prefer houses but lots will live in apartments.

Build apartments and good transport links for them and people will live there. The problem is every time someone wants to build an apartment block, loads of people complain. The problem is whenever the state wants to build the transport links, loads of people complain.

Bass Reeves

Huge difference between commuting into Limerick or Cork. Limerick is excellent to commute into. At present most tech companies locate in with Raheen or Castletroy. Both are very accessible. If you live 20milrs away both are 30 minutes commute unless you have to come through Adare. Then you have companies in Shannon as well and it is very accessible.

Cork is similar.not as accessible as Limerick but still not a dog's dinner like Dublin and Galway. Limerick could take another 250k people and it would still have good accessible. Cork probably needs a Northern Ring but that would solve it problems for next 30 years. Galways main problem is that the Motorway is too far out and only gives one way into the city.it has left most of the old bottlenecks in place. Limerick has other advantages it has satellite towns in a circle around it, Nenagh, Tipperary, Charlesville, Newcasrlewest, Ennis and Foynes Port. There is plans for a Northern Ring in Limerick from Coonagh to Castletroy this will really open up the complete city

odyssey06

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I hate this argument. Many Irish (and many non-Irish living here) have no problem with apartment living. Plenty more would prefer to have a back garden but are more than willing to sacrifice it for an easier life/commute. People are living where ever they can right now. They'll take whatever they can get whether it has a garden or not. There isn't a single apartment block that is struggling to be filled (whether rentals or purchases) because people won't live there because they don't have a garden. It doesn't happen. People might prefer houses but lots will live in apartments.

I think though in general apartments on the continent are more family friendly. There isn't the pressure to move on to a house to raise a family.

Our apartments are more for specific demographics, maybe some of the newer stock will address that but the historic stock doesn't have the storage, soundproofing, the setup etc for families

Fol20

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I hate this argument. Many Irish (and many non-Irish living here) have no problem with apartment living. Plenty more would prefer to have a back garden but are more than willing to sacrifice it for an easier life/commute. People are living where ever they can right now. They'll take whatever they can get whether it has a garden or not. There isn't a single apartment block that is struggling to be filled (whether rentals or purchases) because people won't live there because they don't have a garden. It doesn't happen. People might prefer houses but lots will live in apartments.

Build apartments and good transport links for them and people will live there. The problem is every time someone wants to build an apartment block, loads of people complain. The problem is whenever the state wants to build the transport links, loads of people complain.

Thats why as sozbbz points out, we need a fundamental change in housing policy. Build up and build infrastructure. its the only way to fix the issue properly. Build 10 blocks of apartments instead of 50 houses with a creche,shops,gym, takeaway on the ground floor so people have all the facilites they need within walking distance with a local bustop or dart nearby as well.

Right now people still have the mindset of a 3 bed semi with a garden. Similar to when you go shopping for anything, you need competition and a good selection be it in price,organic vs non organic, region dairy free etc. We should have apartments setup the same way. Some that cater to families, single people, couples etc - studio, 1 bed, 2 bed, 3 bed and 4 bed all within one block. This way you dont have one demographic in one area, have multiple options that people can buy if they choose while apartments should provide more affordability especially if we build these on a mass scale with economies of scale.

We need political will and cultural will to change our attitude to apartments as right now people look down on them. We need to change the planning system as there is far too many spurious objections to housing that makes it costly, slow and not palatable for developers to build.


The sad thing is that none of this will happen as people want their 3 bed semi with the garden but are unwilling to pay for the "luxury of this" but at the same time are unwilling to pay less for an apartment

PommieBast

Sleepy wrote: »

But, even if (and it's a big if) we found the political will to do any of the above would it raise enough in extra revenue / savings to pay for the development of tens of thousands of new homes in the areas we actually need them in?

A few years ago I was amazed (bordering on shocked) when my Irish then-colleagues remarked that the Troika should have been substantially more brutal in forcing economic reforms on Ireland. In hindsight I fear much of what you list will only happen if imposed from outside.

beauf

SozBbz wrote: »

....
People often cite other European cities for their great standard of living and public transport, but the key structural difference is that people in those cities are happy to live and raise their families in apartments. Yes they have security of tenure, but as a concept many Irish people cannot fathom not having a house and a garden.....

Almost impossible to evict people here. Why people say we don't have security of tenure I don't know.

But we don't build family suitable apartments. If you read the property threads on boards its dominated by people wanting accommodations for singles, despite the problems that caused in the past. Its all about the now.

awec

Billythekid19 wrote: »

Ok fair point theres a big jump between Cork and Westport.
But I dont see why Cork , Galway and Limerick cant become hubs for large multinationals on a greater scale than at present. I reckon a lot of 20 somethings would bite your hand off to relocate to these cities if it meant a higher standard of living, cheaper rent , reduced commuting times.

There's a network effect too. For example in tech, companies locate in Dublin because that's pretty much where all tech companies locate. The people these companies want to work for them want to be surrounded by like minded people and similar businesses.

I really do think there's a misconception about these MNCs who set up in Dublin, as if they're doing it reluctantly which is forcing workers to move to Dublin. A big reason as to why they set up in Dublin because that's where the staff they want to attract want to be based - in a major city.

And of course, the other big problem is the airport.

The Student

Fol20 wrote: »

Thats why as sozbbz points out, we need a fundamental change in housing policy. Build up and build infrastructure. its the only way to fix the issue properly. Build 10 blocks of apartments instead of 50 houses with a creche,shops,gym, takeaway on the ground floor so people have all the facilites they need within walking distance with a local bustop or dart nearby as well.

Right now people still have the mindset of a 3 bed semi with a garden. Similar to when you go shopping for anything, you need competition and a good selection be it in price,organic vs non organic, region dairy free etc. We should have apartments setup the same way. Some that cater to families, single people, couples etc - studio, 1 bed, 2 bed, 3 bed and 4 bed all within one block. This way you dont have one demographic in one area, have multiple options that people can buy if they choose while apartments should provide more affordability especially if we build these on a mass scale with economies of scale.

We need political will and cultural will to change our attitude to apartments as right now people look down on them. We need to change the planning system as there is far too many spurious objections to housing that makes it costly, slow and not palatable for developers to build.


The sad thing is that none of this will happen as people want their 3 bed semi with the garden but are unwilling to pay for the "luxury of this" but at the same time are unwilling to pay less for an apartment

I would go further and say that we need a cultural change regarding housing at its basic level. Some people who are housed by the State have no respect for any property and make areas no go.

While I would certainly agree with everything you suggest in your post unless we deal with the underlying issues it will just result in the same issues just in a smaller area but more concentrated.

riclad

Many people would be happy to live in a 1bed apartment if they could afford it.
not every single person wants to live in a house,
Theres no new house,s being built in rathmines ,if you want to live there you,ll very likely have to buy an apartment.

nerrad01

SozBbz wrote: »

If you read my post, you'll see thats not what I said.

SozBbz wrote: »

I don't see why people are so bothered with the buy to rent model.

I was referring to the fact that you couldn't get why people were bothered with the BTL model.

Of course they are bothered, hence the surge in support for SF and I am not blaming the BTL investors, they are going to go after profit wherever they can.

I am blaming the government for not looking after its citizens. I agree in general with your other points, but having almost 100% of apartment stock being built by MNC`s on a BTL model is completely unacceptable and i think everyone should be bothered by it.

nerrad01

It will be interesting to see how many sales go through from jan/ feb. The stock market continues to fall, and its almost a certainty that the coronavirus will hit pandemic levels at the current rate, which will spell disaster for huge areas of the economy.

If had an offer in and didnt have to go ahead i would definitely be holding off, although a house sale seems very insignificant in comparison to what could be ahead from a health viewpoint.

Mic 1972

nerrad01 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how many sales go through from jan/ feb. The stock market continues to fall, and its almost a certainty that the coronavirus will hit pandemic levels at the current rate, which will spell disaster for huge areas of the economy.

If had an offer in and didnt have to go ahead i would definitely be holding off, although a house sale seems very insignificant in comparison to what could be ahead from a health viewpoint.

i'm curious to see how the property market will evolve during the virus, between people wanting to sell now before the value drops and those who will try to benefit from it

PommieBast

I have already priced a potential drop into how much I am prepared to bid for properties. It is why I am only looking at places I could cash-buy rather maxing out what I could borrow.

For me it is either buy now(-ish) or leave Ireland. I am simply not going to hang around indefinitely paying €21k a year in rent.

SozBbz

I think some of the rhetoric about Covid19 and the Irish property market is overstated and premature.

Yes its going to impact on certain supply chains and fast fashion in particular, but the sale of 2nd hand houses in Ireland - a country yet to record a single case? All virus strains run a course, this is not something thats going to be around long term. It was be disruptive for a number of months, but it will end.

People are reacting like this is the black death. Our standards of hygiene and sanitation in this day and age mean we can contain a virus much more effectivly than hundreds of years ago. I really don't think this is going to kill a significant number of people. People die all the time from regular flu, car crashes etc in far greater numbers.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Covid 19 here, worst case scenario market wise, solicitors / agents / banks will slow down / shut up shop temporarily, so lack of new supply and a potential pause to the entire market. Can't see it affecting prices much in any way.