General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Fitz*

joeguevara wrote: »

8 teams have already declared they are self isolating. Arsenal, Leicester City, Chelsea, Manchester City, Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham and Everton. They hardly voted to finish season to conclusion.

I don't think we will see another game played again this season, and no game should be unless there is a miraculous change in developments/changes in medicine, vaccines and society.

By the sounds of things, 18 PL teams agreed to finish the season a the current standings are. Because there is over 75% of the season played. If the clubs are agreeing to it, why can't the fans?

What worries me is the ratio of PL footballers & staff that have tested positive for the virus compared to general public. And it's only because football clubs have access to doctors & testing easily.

Ikozma

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Everyone knew except for the Liverpool fans who were afraid to admit it.
Now they are desperate for the league to be called over and done with before it actually is.

They didn't want to tempt fate which is kinda ironic now

monkey9

rob316 wrote: »

And i just dont know why other posters cant see that, it has to be finished or the ramifications are huge and complex.

Ah they can see it in fairness.

joeguevara

Ikozma wrote: »

Absolutely everyone knew or knows liverpool had the lge won, 25 pts ahead with 9 games left, it was over months ago for christ sake, just hand the damb thing over and be done with it

Sport, especially competitive professional support has nothing to do with the moral victory. If that was the case that marathon runner who was cruising to a gold until the Crazy Irish priest jumped on him would have been given the gold medal. Or a vastly superior team who only lose because being struck down by food poisoning would win. Or a team who lost due to a goal because of a divot in the pitch.

Unless you win by the required points, then you didn’t win. It’s disgraceful. It’s crazy. I’d be disgusted if I was a Liverpool supporter and I would be arguing exactly the same as ye, but it impacts everyone else.

Honestly I hope there is some way that the matches can be played and Everyone gets the position they deserve. But you can’t just magic up a title and forget about everything else.

Umaro

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Whats your point?

Your argument is that Championship/L1/L2 teams need the clarity on finishing positions as it matters to those teams finances.

Not paying out the merit money in the PL would have the same impact. You need finishing positions to distribute the £400m. You can't just say "sorry lads, we're holding on to it - the league is void".

brinty

joeguevara wrote:

But you can’t just magic up a title and forget about everything else.

You're obviously not familiar with Liverpool and their alternative titles my good man.

If city go down for FFP they've already laid claim to last seasons league title

Ikozma

Liverpool will be awarded the title whether moral or not because of their absolute never before seen total dominance of the lge(if it can't be finished any other way) they can't not be awarded it after the season they've had

Fitz*

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You fell right into my trap card.


Yu gi oh reverence sorry lads I'm cool I swear.

Saw you of more of a Pokémon man myself

joeguevara

FitzShane wrote: »

I don't think we will see another game played again this season, and no game should be unless there is a miraculous change in developments/changes in medicine, vaccines and society.

By the sounds of things, 18 PL teams agreed to finish the season a the current standings are. Because there is over 75% of the season played. If the clubs are agreeing to it, why can't the fans?

What worries me is the ratio of PL footballers & staff that have tested positive for the virus compared to general public. And it's only because football clubs have access to doctors & testing easily.

Sorry I misunderstood the meaning of finishing the premiership to conclusion. I took it as continuing to play.

But the ramifications of a team relegated, when they haven’t actually been relegated is obscene. It is grossly unfair to argue that only two teams are the only ones looking after their own interests. Every team that escaped relegation where it was a possibility is self serving. Every team in a European spot is self serving. The ones between that don’t care. I presume Liverpool voted themselves to be champions.

Shanotheslayer

Ikozma wrote: »

Liverpool will be awarded the title whether moral or not because of their absolute never before seen total dominance of the lge(if it can't be finished any other way) they can't not be awarded it after the season they've had

Hate to break it to you buddy. But it has been seen before. By literally City over 2 years.

Ikozma

brinty wrote: »

You're obviously not familiar with Liverpool and their alternative titles my good man.

If city go down for FFP they've already laid claim to last seasons league title

Have they now, that's news to me, can you show me where that's written please

Cantona's Collars

Ikozma wrote: »

Liverpool will be awarded the title whether moral or not because of their absolute never before seen total dominance of the lge(if it can't be finished any other way) they can't not be awarded it after the season they've had

Only it doesn't work that way.

Ikozma

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Hate to break it to you buddy. But it has been seen before. By literally City over 2 years.

Were city ever 25 pts ahead of the 2nd place team having won 27/29 games, I don't think so pal

astrofool

Umaro wrote: »

Your argument is that Championship/L1/L2 teams need the clarity on finishing positions as it matters to those teams finances.

Not paying out the merit money in the PL would have the same impact. You need finishing positions to distribute the £400m. You can't just say "sorry lads, we're holding on to it - the league is void".

The money would be used to handle the financial fallout of the league not happening.

DVDM93

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Holy smokes. Make a comment about a person tweeting something that isn't an authorized account and all of a sudden I'm T.Hanks.

For clarity I think it's absolute pony. I can't imagine most clubs agreeing to that because it absolute makes no sense.

"Lads, meeting held today, just to discuss if Liverpool should be champions, can we vote for it , Relegation, CL, Europa League, not really on the agenda despite the money involved but really we just need you guys to vote on the if Liverpool should be champions"

As someone said I believe it was the telegraph he quoted? Has anyone got the article link?

If you think I'm T.Hanks.....

Disagreed last week
Disagreed in the past
Just an FYI

I'm actually Niallo as well, I disagree with him sometimes but chat regularly. I'm just a bored person.

I support Everton United and Liverpool

I think you've taken this one a bit too much to heart, that said I don't blame you for not wanting to be made responsible for any of Otis Agreeable Axe^ carry on.

I don't actually think that ye are the same person.

It was an exaggeration following on from my Batman & Robin post & comparison I made yesterday in that anything you seem to post he's there ready & waiting lurking in the bushes ready to be of service, it's just so sad & unhealthy.

it was then fuelled by Woodsie's paranoia comment & then the whole thing has completely blown up since as I've just seen.

this thread is absolutely ridiculous, there are so so many scenarios that can happen from here & what happened tonight is that I posted in about the latest one doing the rounds, perfectly relevant in this thread you would think & up for discussion on both sides but no, not two seconds later I was called desperate for whatever reason?

anyway, no offence made by my post & I hope none taken & that I've explained myself well enough here.

Fitz*

joeguevara wrote: »

Sorry I misunderstood the meaning of finishing the premiership to conclusion. I took it as continuing to play.

But the ramifications of a team relegated, when they haven’t actually been relegated is obscene. It is grossly unfair to argue that only two teams are the only ones looking after their own interests. Every team that escaped relegation where it was a possibility is self serving. Every team in a European spot is self serving. The ones between that don’t care. I presume Liverpool voted themselves to be champions.

Read again, my friend. I said no team would be related.

Edit: sorry, I am mixing my thinking and what is seemingly being voted.

But we ( the apparently decision voted by clubs and I) seem to have the same decision. Next season starts as 22 in the premier league. Which I would assume would then cascade down the leagues as 26 and so on.

firemansam4

I find it funny all the posters in here with such concern for society in the UK that they think the season should be made null and void.
While trying to hide there absolute glee at the idea of Liverpool loosing out on the title that is all but won mathematically.

BTW I'm a Liverpool fan and I think if things get real bad as some suggest then the season should be cancelled.

But some posters just need to stop the faux concern for society in the UK and just admit they want to see Liverpool lose out on the league...

Ikozma

Ikozma wrote: »

Were city ever 25 pts ahead of the 2nd place team having won 27/29 games, I don't think so pal

Where in the rules of the premier league or any league for that matter does it matter if a team is 1 or 50 points ahead?

What about the team with lowest points in relegation but still mathematically safe?

brinty

Ikozma wrote:

Liverpool will be awarded the title whether moral or not because of their absolute never before seen total dominance of the lge(if it can't be finished any other way) they can't not be awarded it after the season they've had

Em yes they can not be awarded it. The league hasn't finished.

Has the full 38 game season been completed? No
Can Liverpool be caught? Yes

Therefore they're current dominance amounts to the sum total of SFA.

As for their total dominance how many of the four main trophies have they won so far??

Shanotheslayer

Ikozma wrote: »

Were city ever 25 pts ahead of the 2nd place team having won 27/29 games, I don't think so pal

Go to bed.

Ikozma

brinty wrote: »

Em yes they can not be awarded it. The league hasn't finished.

Has the full 38 game season been completed? No
Can Liverpool be caught? Yes

Therefore they're current dominance amounts to the sum total of SFA.

As for their total dominance how many of the four main trophies have they won so far??

Dominance of the lge obviously, it is the league we are talking about is it not

brinty

Ikozma wrote:

Were city ever 25 pts ahead of the 2nd place team having won 27/29 games, I don't think so pal

Doesn't matter how far any team was ahead

Has the full 38 game season been completed? No Can Liverpool be caught? Yes

Therefore their current dominance amounts to the sum total of SFA

brinty

Ikozma wrote:

Dominance of the lge obviously, it is the league we are talking about is it not

You said dominance, now you're back tracking

There's a surprise

Umaro

brinty wrote: »

You said dominance, now you're back tracking

There's a surprise

This is the post you quoted.

Ikozma wrote: »

Liverpool will be awarded the title whether moral or not because of their absolute never before seen total dominance of the lge(if it can't be finished any other way) they can't not be awarded it after the season they've had

Cmon now brinty. You're losing your subtlety - maybe it's time for bed?

Woodsie1

Umaro wrote: »

Your argument is that Championship/L1/L2 teams need the clarity on finishing positions as it matters to those teams finances.

Not paying out the merit money in the PL would have the same impact. You need finishing positions to distribute the £400m. You can't just say "sorry lads, we're holding on to it - the league is void".

It wouldnt have the same impact at all

brinty

Umaro wrote:

Cmon now brinty. You're losing your subtlety - maybe it's time for bed?

Maybe you should come up with an original response

joeguevara

firemansam4 wrote: »

I find it funny all the posters in here with such concern for society in the UK that they think the season should be made null and void.
While trying to hide there absolute glee at the idea of Liverpool loosing out on the title that is all but won mathematically.

BTW I'm a Liverpool fan and I think if things get real bad as some suggest then the season should be cancelled.

But some posters just need to stop the faux concern for society in the UK and just admit they want to see Liverpool lose out on the league...

I may be wrong but I haven’t seen any post (in the last 2-3 hours) that hid glee at Liverpool being denied the title. There have been a few claims by Liverpool supporters of that but I honestly haven’t seen it. Most arguments have been on how it would effect other teams. Have you seen any post by a Liverpool supporter even acknowledging how it effects other teams.

As for faux outrage on U.K. society, I may have missed that too. Majority of posts I have read have been solely football related. I did mention myself that there is a bigger picture but more of a throwaway remark.

I think every avenue should be explored on what could be done. But simply to award a title is not the right decision.

Umaro

Woodsie1 wrote: »

It wouldnt have the same impact at all

Wow, I never thought about it like that.

Woodsie1

Umaro wrote: »

Wow, I never thought about it like that.

Maybe you should think before you type then.

joeguevara

FitzShane wrote: »

Read again, my friend. I said no team would be related.

Edit: sorry, I am mixing my thinking and what is seemingly being voted.

But we ( the apparently decision voted by clubs and I) seem to have the same decision. Next season starts as 22 in the premier league. Which I would assume would then cascade down the leagues as 26 and so on.

But why wouldn’t it include relegation. If you can award a title before it is concluded then the same should apply to relegation. The reason I say this is because what is being advocated is only two teams coming up from the Championship instead of 3. Why should that team be denied it. It can’t just be cherry picked to suit.

Umaro

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Maybe you should think before you type then.

But then I wouldn't end up in engaging discussions with a fellow like yourself.

"PL clubs will still need their prize money"

"No they won't"

Fitz*

joeguevara wrote: »

I may be wrong but I haven’t seen any post (in the last 2-3 hours) that hid glee at Liverpool being denied the title. There have been a few claims by Liverpool supporters of that but I honestly haven’t seen it. Most arguments have been on how it would effect other teams. Have you seen any post by a Liverpool supporter even acknowledging how it effects other teams..

It doesn't meet your criteria of 2-3 hours but it's within the last 30 hours. For me, it stood out at the time as a deranged comment given the current situation. Easy to remeber. There's probably more across the many threads, but I'm not going looking.

smelly sock wrote: »

This will be epic if the season is voided.

Woodsie1

Umaro wrote: »

But then I wouldn't end up in engaging discussions with a fellow like yourself.

"PL clubs will still need their prize money"

"No they won't"

I didnt say that.
Try not lying when you attempt to look smart.

brinty

Woodsie1 wrote: »

I didnt say that.
Try not lying when you attempt to look smart.

I think you’re over estimating the posters intellect

joeguevara

FitzShane wrote: »

It doesn't meet your criteria of 2-3 hours but it's within the last 30 hours. For me, it stood out at the time as a deranged comment given the current situation. Easy to remeber. There's probably more across the many threads, but I'm not going looking.

Fair enough. Apologies. I think it’s the worst thing that could have happened. Liverpool have been class and their team and manager have shown pure pedigree. It’s wrong that rival supporters would relish in the current situation.

I stick to the Spurs forum so don’t get to see posts between other supporters. It really gets up my nose when supporters drop in there to slag spurs off so I can understand how it would effect you.

I do stand by my belief that unless mathematically a team wins, then they shouldn’t be awarded a title. Not because of Liverpool but all effected teams.

Fitz*

joeguevara wrote: »

Fair enough. Apologies. I think it’s the worst thing that could have happened. Liverpool have been class and their team and manager have shown pure pedigree. It’s wrong that rival supporters would relish in the current situation.

I stick to the Spurs forum so don’t get to see posts between other supporters. It really gets up my nose when supporters drop in there to slag spurs off so I can understand how it would effect you.

I do stand by my belief that unless mathematically a team wins, then they shouldn’t be awarded a title. Not because of Liverpool but all effected teams.

Up until about 3 days ago I would have agreed with you about mathematically having to be champions before awarding a title!! But we are living though history at the moment! And the first time in life of every person reading this post, that a football league season will not be completed, so it's new ground. It's unknown for all of us.

And just to say again, my slagging off of spurs was not of spurs fans , but of the club ( well, really the owners but I can see why my posts were picked up that way to be fair). We both know that spurs fans did not vote universally against voiding the season. It was one person acting on behalf of the club.

joeguevara

FitzShane wrote: »

Up until about 3 days ago I would have agreed with you about mathematically having to be champions before awarding a title!! But we are living though history at the moment! And the first time in life of every person reading this post, that a football league season will not be completed, so it's new ground. It's unknown for all of us.

And just to say again, my slagging off of spurs was not of spurs fans , but of the club ( well, really the owners but I can see why my posts were picked up that way to be fair). We both know that spurs fans did not vote universally against voiding the season. It was one person acting on behalf of the club.

Don’t worry. You explained. All good.

It is new ground. But every team should be taken into consideration. It really is fcucked up.

eagle eye

I think Liverpool deserve the title but I can't see how you can officially give it to them. If you do that then all positions have to be awarded and I don't think you can do that given the ramifications.
Hopefully we can get back up and running and finish it out.

joeguevara

I think everyone is in agreement that the provisional date of April 4 for return of premiership football is completely unobtainable. If it returns on 05th July which is still unlikely based on the estimate of peaks that have been published, there is a clear issue. The players wilL have done no squad training.

Reports suggest that each player will complete a fitness training regime in their own homes overseen remotely by club medical staff. So although they may have kept fitness (which is a stretch as there will be no face to face oversight) they will have had no football drills or individual coaching as a team.

Managers have already raised that this is unacceptable. Ilprepared teams would be expected to compete for points which would impact European football, relegation or promotion. Furthermore, players could be risking serious injuries if they play and are not fully fit. There would have to be at least 4 weeks of training including warm up matches, similar to pre-season to ensure that teams are prepared for effectively their futures. That would mean restarting premiership matches in September which are scheduled to last 6 weeks. That would mean finishing the premiership mid October. There would have to be a break for the players and then start pre season all over again. This would mean that the new season would start in December.

No tv revenue for teams til then. No new ticket revenue. New kits couldn’t be sold. Sponsorship deals couldn’t be made corporate revenue delayed. It would literally bankrupt half the teams.

Also players could walk away from contracts in June meaning squads could be decimated. None of this is going to work.

Nunu

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

It's like someone saying that they were the only person in the country who got 5 numbers in the lotto but deserve the jackpot because they were nearer to winning it than anyone else.

Well, it’s more like the only person in the country that had 5 numbers and they also had the 6th but it got stuck in the tube on the way out and the drum shut down.

There’s no end date to this crisis. No way the season will be null & voided without more clarity because who’s to say next season wouldn’t still be affected. Finish what you started and adjust accordingly. They will carry on as is whether that’s in 2 weeks time (no chance) or God knows when.

Ikozma

brinty wrote: »

You said dominance, now you're back tracking

There's a surprise

Maybe read original posts correctly before making yourself look silly like a good lad

Why would they void this season and start another from scratch?

Do the neutrals think this crisis is going to go on for months and suddenly resolve neatly early August and 20/21 season will begin?

Right...

The current season needs to finish whenever. That may mean Xmas like fixtures. But to borrow a famous electoral rally cry, Let's get the League Done!

Richard Hillman

I reckon Man City will be asked to forfeit the Liverpool match and one other against a non competitive team.


Relegation scrapped. The top 2 of the championship promoted. Then 5 teams relegated next year

monkey9

brinty wrote: »

Doesn't matter how far any team was ahead

Has the full 38 game season been completed? No Can Liverpool be caught? Yes

Therefore their current dominance amounts to the sum total of SFA

Liverpool will win their 19th title this year, you really need to accept this.

Where you are going wrong is pretending it's not about Liverpool and then focusing on Liverpool.

Liverpool aren't the issue, get over it. Everything that happens over the next few weeks will lead to Liverpool being crowned Champions.

The promotion/relegation places are where it's going to get messy.

eagle eye

monkey9 wrote:

The promotion/relegation places are where it's going to get messy.

It would be crazy to give Liverpool the title without finishing the season
The season should be finished as soon as we are clear to get back to normality and it doesn't matter if that's in April or next year.

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

It would be crazy to give Liverpool the title without finishing the season
The season should be finished as soon as we are clear to get back to normality and it doesn't matter if that's in April or next year.

First of all, it wouldn't be crazy. Liverpool are clearly the Champions.

Secondly, Liverpool aren't the issue here. That matter is solved. It's the promotion/relegation issues and the money that comes with it all is what is going to cause havoc.

Clubs will sue, don't think they won't.

So once again, the leagues will play out, the Euros will be postponed.

joeguevara

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I reckon Man City will be asked to forfeit the Liverpool match and one other against a non competitive team.


Relegation scrapped. The top 2 of the championship promoted. Then 5 teams relegated next year

That would more or less be considered fraud and fixing a title. Under what circumstances could the premier league direct forfeiture of matches to benefit a team.

Also, why would Leeds and West Brom receive automatic promotion to premiership without qualifying at the expense of four or 5 teams that could catch them. If there is no rule prescribed, then it cannot be made up now to benefit one team over another, especially with such huge financial consequences.

Finally, why would a mandated play off place team be denied a place in the premiership but teams at the foot of the table escape relegation. Benefitting one team over another, or fixing the rules to do so is fraught with so many legal issues that would be negligent to do so. Also, even if they took the chance and rolled the dice on it, they would be slapped with an injunction to desist until the outcome of a legal case which could take several months to be heard delaying the start of a new season.

It appears unlikely as it stands that Liverpool will be crowned champions without playing out the remaining fixtures. I have seen it argued to allow Liverpool play, for example two matches to obtain the required number of points to be crowned champions. Again, that would favour Liverpool over other teams. Why not allow other teams a chance to obtain the required number of points to qualify for Europe, or let’s say in Fulham’s position to gain automatic promotion.

No matter how unfair (and I do think it is) that Liverpool would not be crowned champions as it stands, they cannot receive favouritism at the expense of other teams, simply because they had a good run.

monkey9

joeguevara wrote: »

That would more or less be considered fraud and fixing a title. Under what circumstances could the premier league direct forfeiture of matches to benefit a team.

Also, why would Leeds and West Brom receive automatic promotion to premiership without qualifying at the expense of four or 5 teams that could catch them. If there is no rule prescribed, then it cannot be made up now to benefit one team over another, especially with such huge financial consequences.

Finally, why would a mandated play off place team be denied a place in the premiership but teams at the foot of the table escape relegation. Benefitting one team over another, or fixing the rules to do so is fraught with so many legal issues that would be negligent to do so. Also, even if they took the chance and rolled the dice on it, they would be slapped with an injunction to desist until the outcome of a legal case which could take several months to be heard delaying the start of a new season.

It appears unlikely as it stands that Liverpool will be crowned champions without playing out the remaining fixtures. I have seen it argued to allow Liverpool play, for example two matches to obtain the required number of points to be crowned champions. Again, that would favour Liverpool over other teams. Why not allow other teams a chance to obtain the required number of points to qualify for Europe, or let’s say in Fulham’s position to gain automatic promotion.

No matter how unfair (and I do think it is) that Liverpool would not be crowned champions as it stands, they cannot receive favouritism at the expense of other teams, simply because they had a good run.

Exactly, the leagues will be played out. You make so much sense.

Liamalone

How can you award a title for an incomplete season? May just abandon the season, never happened, everyone's happy.

joeguevara

monkey9 wrote: »

Exactly, the leagues will be played out. You make so much sense.

But if finishing this season would delay new tv money, sponsorship, ticket revenue, new shirt sales which could bankrupt a considerable amount of clubs, just so Liverpool can win a title, the greater good would have to prevail.

None of it makes sense. And nobody really knows what will happen. But money will be the most important factor at the expense of Liverpool’s moral right to be champions.