General Premier League Thread 2019-20

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

talk that the champions league and europa league will be played over a few days with a straight ko to the final from the quarter final onwards

Interesting idea. Makes sense if they want to complete it quickly

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Surely they will finish this season as priority whenever that is.

Then do a half league season or some unique format so that they can return to the usual format at some point.

Agent Coulson

They can finish the season at the start of the next season whenever that is.

PL teams in European competition can drop out of the league cup or play their underage teams for as long as they are in it however once they do that they cannot add senior players the further they go in it and no two leg games.

The FA cup can be one legged games with no extra time and draws go to penalties.

Fitz*

Something different here, but it's being reported now that Mason Mount broke isolation to go for a kick about. Even after his team mate who he would have been in close contact with, had test positive for COVID-19.

Should something like this result in a one game when play resumes or would it not fall under the 'bringing the game into disrepute' category?

Cookiemunster

8-10 wrote: »

They're already suspended from Europe. Decision on the league won't change that

They're not. Once they appealed to CAS the suspension is stayed until CAS make their ruling. The case was due to be heard in June but CAS is basically at a stop now too.

Agent Coulson

FitzShane wrote: »

Something different here, but it's being reported now that Mason Mount broke isolation to go for a kick about. Even after his team mate who he would have been in close contact with, had test positive for COVID-19.

Should something like this result in a one game when play resumes or would it not fall under the 'bringing the game into disrepute' category?

The kick about was with Declan Rice and his manager Moyes was also in self isolation last week.

I like to call them something but someone here would report it and i would get carded.

Harry Palmr

They should both be sacked.

Carcharodon

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They should both be sacked.

And paraded through the streets naked

“Shame” “Shame” “Shame”

eagle eye

Harry Palmr wrote:

They should both be sacked.

Well that's not going to happen. If they were both tested and given the all clear I can't see any harm in it. If they weren't then a nice ban should be handed to both of them.

Rayne Wooney

All jokes aside, they are obviously going to finish the 9 games.

The when will depend on if UEFA decide to assert their authority and play the euros in the summer and how long the virus lingers for

bangkok

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They should both be sacked.

sacked for going outside?!

~Rebel~

bangkok wrote: »

sacked for going outside?!

You obviously know the context, and you obviously know that it’s not just going outside, but breaking quarantine and interacting with someone else.

I agree sacking him is too much, but it really is irresponsible.

Clubs will be working on the basis of their players being truthful about this... if you have a collection of players and staff who have all passed 2 weeks of isolation, then they could begin to expand their isolation cells and work with each other in small groups. It helps everyone, and it’s ultimately how all of us will start opening up social contact again.

One person taking the piss totally wastes all that effort.

stesaurus

I wouldn't be vilifying the players breaking quarantine. Firstly they're footballers so hardly bastions of intelligence to begin with. Secondly, the UK has a totally different attitude to the virus thanks to their government. I've so many friends in the UK or part of different UK based online groups and they really are burying their heads in the sand. It's scary.

stesaurus

Any PPG or other such nonsense is never going to be entertained. Either they resume the season whenever it's safe or they void the current season and startup when safe to do so.
There's massive headaches either way but voiding is easier IMO.
Most sponsors etc. I think would be happy with only receiving 70% of the product given the unprecedented nature of things. So I don't think you'll see many legal cases to that.
So what it will boil down to would be lost revenues expected from the normal 2021 season being cancelled/delayed versus lost potential revenues by clubs finishing higher than last year.
Then there's player contracts to deal with. The league isn't likely to resume before the usual end of June contract ends. Players are not going to be charitable and just extend for a few months. Some might, others will exploit it for higher wages and others will move clubs. Registrations for the season can't be changed so now we're in a position where clubs don't have enough players in their squad allowed to compete. Where's the integrity in that kind of situation?
It's a mess and completely unprecedented.

y0ssar1an22

stesaurus wrote: »

Any PPG or other such nonsense is never going to be entertained. Either they resume the season whenever it's safe or they void the current season and startup when safe to do so.
There's massive headaches either way but voiding is easier IMO.
Most sponsors etc. I think would be happy with only receiving 70% of the product given the unprecedented nature of things. So I don't think you'll see many legal cases to that.
So what it will boil down to would be lost revenues expected from the normal 2021 season being cancelled/delayed versus lost potential revenues by clubs finishing higher than last year.
Then there's player contracts to deal with. The league isn't likely to resume before the usual end of June contract ends. Players are not going to be charitable and just extend for a few months. Some might, others will exploit it for higher wages and others will move clubs. Registrations for the season can't be changed so now we're in a position where clubs don't have enough players in their squad allowed to compete. Where's the integrity in that kind of situation?
It's a mess and completely unprecedented.

i think its watford who are losing their number 1 and 2 keepers at the end of june.

the clip i watched from SSN were suggesting uefa might announce that contracts will run until the end of the season, whenever that may be. but that's another can of worms, being forced to remain with a club you have decided to leave, or the club decided not to renew. Then there are the players who have signed pre-contracts with other clubs. lallana maybe?

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

How irresponsible Man Utd only cancelling training for its players today after all other teams did this last week and gave their players training plans to do at home.

Manchester United have stopped their players from training at the club’s Carrington base and asked them to work individually following fresh advice regarding coronavirus from Boris Johnson.

On Monday the prime minister urged against all non-essential physical contact and travel. Ole Gunnar Solskjær, the manager, had been due to take training on Tuesday morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/17/manchester-united-cancel-training-coronavirus

8-10

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

How irresponsible Man Utd only cancelling training for its players today after all other teams did this last week and gave their players training plans to do at home.



https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/17/manchester-united-cancel-training-coronavirus

Liverpool only closed Melwood yesterday

Ikozma

With their lax attitude to this in the UK I can't see this season being finished, or a new one starting for quite some time

Harry Palmr

from guardian article on club by club actions.

In the meantime, players will follow individual training programmes at home having been advised to stay away from Melwood since Friday.

Injured players are allowed access to Melwood but their rehabilitation schedules are being restricted and staggered to minimise contact. All players have been advised not to travel abroad.

The_Kew_Tour

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

How irresponsible Man Utd only cancelling training for its players today after all other teams did this last week and gave their players training plans to do at home.



https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/17/manchester-united-cancel-training-coronavirus

Not only ones:cool:

Rayne Wooney

The euros have been postponed until 2021

Guy:Incognito

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The euros have been postponed until 2021

Had to be the case. Dont know why they dithered so long.

Move 1 international tournament that hasnt started and doesnt even have all the teams qulaified yet , frees up time should all the leagues that are in full swing or nearing completion should the whole thing be able to get going again in the summer.

Even if all this coronavirus stuff was sorted by the start of June, when do you fit in the playoffs before the tournament in a timeframe to get things started.

The_Kew_Tour

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The euros have been postponed until 2021

Common sense

yabadabado

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The euros have been postponed until 2021

Correct call.
Now void this season and wait it out until safe to start the 20/21.

pjohnson

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i think its watford who are losing their number 1 and 2 keepers at the end of june.

the clip i watched from SSN were suggesting uefa might announce that contracts will run until the end of the season, whenever that may be. but that's another can of worms, being forced to remain with a club you have decided to leave, or the club decided not to renew. Then there are the players who have signed pre-contracts with other clubs. lallana maybe?

Yep. I mentioned that before. Sure they could try and change contracts to being more "open" but then what of Ziyech? His now open Ajax contract overlaps with his Chelsea contact. I mean you could obviously delay his Chelsea contract starting but then as a side effect will Ajax then suffer financial issues since Chelsea then wouldn't pay the transfer fee until they do get him?

Can clubs afford to keep players for however long it takes to end the season? It could be a bloodbath for lower league sides who normally release quite a few players year on year to have to suddenly budget for retained players. Bolton, Blackpool and the likes would certainly fold before the season ends.

Kylo Ren

Baggly wrote: »

Football is propagated under the illusion that each season is important and matters. Its why fans watch; its supposedly why players put in as much effort as they do (idealistically, but realistically its money). If you start to say that seasons don't matter and can be voided to avoid mess / complications in planning (that's not to say football is more important than peoples lives - its not) then you start to chip away at that sense of importance.

There has to be a champion announced - by virtue of the fact that everyone has invested so much time, effort and importance to there being a champion and to each league position and to what happens each season.

And if anyone thinks voiding the season is the most viable option because it offers the fewest complications; and if that is indeed the case, there are, i should imagine, at least 10 clubs who would sue the PL to high heaven if the season was voided (on financial grounds), and 100's of players who are under financial incentive to finish the season who would also sue the PL for such a decision.

Voiding the season thus becomes a lot more complicated and less viable as a result.

I very much doubt the season will be voided. I dont think its nearly as clean and neat a solution as is being purported in this thread.

You're just propagating the 'sunk cost fallacy' "we've done so much, we must keep going!" It's not always best to keep going.

Also, imagine the PR nightmare of multi hundred million pound clubs suing the league who, in a global pandemic, decided to cancel the league in the interest of saving lives. Lol.

Harry Palmr

So then where does that leave the various play offs and other internationals - any mention?

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The euros have been postponed until 2021

Nice one, good move

Guy:Incognito

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep. I mentioned that before. Sure they could try and change contracts to being more "open" but then what of Ziyech? His now open Ajax contract overlaps with his Chelsea contact. I mean you could obviously delay his Chelsea contract starting but then as a side effect will Ajax then suffer financial issues since Chelsea then wouldn't pay the transfer fee until they do get him?

Can clubs afford to keep players for however long it takes to end the season? It could be a bloodbath for lower league sides who normally release quite a few players year on year to have to suddenly budget for retained players. Bolton, Blackpool and the likes would certainly fold before the season ends.

Theres no need to over complicate it. Any pre arranged transfers go ahead when they are supposed to , just like the January window when players move mid season. If a player is about to leave on a free with nowhere to go, they can still do that or come to an agreement with the club about a short term deal.

Baggly

Kylo Ren wrote:

You're just propagating the 'sunk cost fallacy' "we've done so much, we must keep going!" It's not always best to keep going.

I am propagating nothing. I never said should. I pointed out the situation as I see it, not how I feel it should be.

Also that's not nearly the point I was making.

Guy:Incognito

Kylo Ren wrote: »

Also, imagine the PR nightmare of multi hundred million pound clubs suing the league who, in a global pandemic, decided to cancel the league in the interest of saving lives. Lol.

No one has any issue with the postponement , its what happens after as a completely separate issue. Once this is over with and the nuts and bolts need to be sorted , its not a "theres a global pandemic , the cheek of you having issue" . The global pandemic is done at that stage.

Lets be honest , theres no reason for people to want the season voided other than fans that want to stop Liverpool winning the league or ones that hope itll help them avoid relegation. Especially Utd fans. With Utd on a good run and Chelsea and Leicester dropping points, literally the only reason for Utd fans to want the season voided is to stop Liverpool.

Fitz*

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep. I mentioned that before. Sure they could try and change contracts to being more "open" but then what of Ziyech? His now open Ajax contract overlaps with his Chelsea contact.

If all contacts are being extended, then so would his Ajax contract and the transfer would be delayed under after the season has concluded.

The only reason that the July 1st 2020 date is being used as the transfer date is because that is just the arbitrary date that is used to signal the start of the new season and when registrations are transferred. If the current season is still in process, then the registration dates will be moved also, IMO.

Players might not even be paid for these weeks as they are not working, certainly at lower level, so they will be happy to have the extra month's contract later in the year with their current club.

Kylo Ren

Baggly wrote: »

I am propagating nothing. I never said should. I pointed out the situation as I see it, not how I feel it should be.

Also that's not nearly the point I was making.

Baggly wrote: »

There has to be a champion announced - by virtue of the fact that everyone has invested so much time, effort and importance to there being a champion and to each league position and to what happens each season.

"individuals commit the sunk cost fallacy when they continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources (time, money or effort)"

Pretty much is exactly that.

Kylo Ren

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one has any issue with the postponement , its what happens after as a completely separate issue. Once this is over with and the nuts and bolts need to be sorted , its not a "theres a global pandemic , the cheek of you having issue" . The global pandemic is done at that stage.

Lets be honest , theres no reason for people to want the season voided other than fans that want to stop Liverpool winning the league or ones that hope itll help them avoid relegation. Especially Utd fans. With Utd on a good run and Chelsea and Leicester dropping points, literally the only reason for Utd fans to want the season voided is to stop Liverpool.

But no one knows when this is over?

Really, no reason for wanting a season voided than wanting to stop a club winning a title? Either I'm greatly exaggerating what's going on right now, or you're greatly understating it.

Baggly

Yes but the context of the rest of the post is talking about why that is the case. I never said that's the way it has to be or the way I'd want it to be. It's just the reality of the situation as I see it.

But if you throw a season away the whole thing starts to unravel.

Why is next season important but the last one was voided and thrown away?

If a season is voided and doesn't matter, do any of them matter?

Why should I shell out a lot of money to watch this when it may not matter in terms of the season finishing?

Those are the questions that will be asked.

One can't just decide to void a season and assume nothing changes. Football is predicated upon games, matches and results mattering. Start to pull at that thread and they all come loose, imo.

Guy:Incognito

Kylo Ren wrote: »

Really, no reason for wanting a season voided than wanting to stop a club winning a title? Either I'm greatly exaggerating what's going on right now, or you're greatly understating it.

Since I mentioned Utd, lets continue using them as an example. What reasons would Utd have for not wanting it finished? I dont see an upside for them.

IMO its easier to organise moving/curtailing a season that hasnt started yet rather than the ramifications of ditching one that is 75% done. Play it by ear. See what date it can be restarted and finished then fit next season in to whatever time frame you have left before the Euros. Do something similar to Scotland, split the league. Maybe do everyone plays each other once then split the league.

Kylo Ren

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since I mentioned Utd, lets continue using them as an example. What reasons would Utd have for not wanting it finished? I dont see an upside for them.

IMO its easier to organising moving/curtailing a season that hasnt started yet rather than the ramifications of ditching one that is 75% done. Play it by ear. See what date it can be restarted and finished then fit next season in to whatever time frame you have left before the Euros. Do something similar to Scotland, split the league. Maybe do everyone plays each other once then split the league.

It's not about what clubs want. It's about reality.

We're all pretty much playing it by ear.

What do you about player contracts for example?

Guy:Incognito

Kylo Ren wrote: »

What do you about player contracts for example?

from above

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres no need to over complicate it. Any pre arranged transfers go ahead when they are supposed to , just like the January window when players move mid season. If a player is about to leave on a free with nowhere to go, they can still do that or come to an agreement with the club about a short term deal.

Kylo Ren

Baggly wrote: »

Yes but the context of the rest of the post is talking about why that is the case. I never said that's the way it has to be or the way I'd want it to be. It's just the reality of the situation as I see it.

But if you throw a season away the whole thing starts to unravel.

Why is next season important but the last one was voided and thrown away? Because there was a literal pandemic last season and now we can continue?

If a season is voided and doesn't matter, do any of them matter? Go to the league winners and have a look at the years 1939 and 1945. There will be a big gap. Did the leagues that happened after them matter?

Why should I shell out a lot of money to watch this when it may not matter in terms of the season finishing? That's entirely up to you. I would see it as very low that another pandemic will happen next year and therefore will buy a sky subscription.

Those are the questions that will be asked.

One can't just decide to void a season and assume nothing changes. Football is predicated upon games, matches and results mattering. Start to pull at that thread and they all come loose, imo.

.

Baggly

You are cherry picking parts of what I have said to make a seemingly flippant set of comments.

I started this discussion by saying of course peoples lives matter. Of course the pandemic is a reason to make adjustments to the season.

But voiding isn't the only option. By a long shot.

But why choose voiding over postponing?

Once we know more about when the dust settles why not just pick up where we left off?

I'm waiting to hear why you think one or the other is better instead of just picking at other people's points tbh.

Baggly

Also I don't think you can compare the war period to now for what I'm talking about. The consumerism around football that exists now didn't back then.

My point is football is now sold as mattering hugely. Its sold as worth spending money on. Do something to undermine that and people may think it stops mattering as much.

Baggly

Also I don't think you can compare the war period to now for what I'm talking about. The consumerism around football that exists now didn't back then.

My point is football is now sold as mattering hugely. Its sold as worth spending money on. Do something to undermine that and people may think it stops mattering as much.

Guy:Incognito

Kylo Ren wrote: »

.

What about season 1914- 15 ?


The 39-40 season was only weeks old when the war stopped it. The dates for that stoppage worked a lot better.

A good chunk of Europe being actively at war is different to a virus anyway.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What about season 1914- 15 ?
.

Remember it well

Cork Boy 53

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What about season 1914- 15 ?


The 39-40 season was only weeks old when the war stopped it. The dates for that stoppage worked a lot better.

A good chunk of Europe being actively at war is different to a virus anyway.

WWI officially started in early Aug.1914 so would not really have made any difference to the football season.

windy shepard henderson

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What about season 1914- 15 ?


.

I blame Everton, they won the league in 1915 and 1939 before both world wars they are just bad news that lot

Kylo Ren

Baggly wrote: »

You are cherry picking parts of what I have said to make a seemingly flippant set of comments.

I started this discussion by saying of course peoples lives matter. Of course the pandemic is a reason to make adjustments to the season.

But voiding isn't the only option. By a long shot.

But why choose voiding over postponing?

Once we know more about when the dust settles why not just pick up where we left off?

I'm waiting to hear why you think one or the other is better instead of just picking at other people's points tbh.

I am not cherry picking anything. You asked three questions, I replied to three.

I haven't said anything about one being better than the other. I'm simply looking at what's going on, listening to experts and forming an opinion - I can't see the league going ahead.

Kylo Ren

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What about season 1914- 15 ?


The 39-40 season was only weeks old when the war stopped it. The dates for that stoppage worked a lot better.

A good chunk of Europe being actively at war is different to a virus anyway.

I agree, it's probably easier to house a league in a country in times of war than a global pandemic. There are no neutral countries in a pandemic.

stesaurus

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since I mentioned Utd, lets continue using them as an example. What reasons would Utd have for not wanting it finished? I dont see an upside for them.

IMO its easier to organise moving/curtailing a season that hasnt started yet rather than the ramifications of ditching one that is 75% done. Play it by ear. See what date it can be restarted and finished then fit next season in to whatever time frame you have left before the Euros. Do something similar to Scotland, split the league. Maybe do everyone plays each other once then split the league.

Utd would have budgeted for European football for 2021, not Champions League. They would have budgeted for Premier League TV rights coming through at the usual time. They would have budgeted for a full 38 game season and all the revenues that come with that.
If you are potentially delaying all that by at least 6 months in order to finish off 2020 then there's going to be impacts. Not to mention needing to streamline 2021 in order to finish on time for the Euros. So the reality is a much lower revenue for 2021.
It's nowhere near as simple as suggesting Utd would finish higher this year than reverting back to last year's positions.

It's a mess and only seems to be Liverpool fans that don't want to look past their league title to try figure it out.

8-10

There's only been 1 matchday lost. There's no reason to rush the decision on how to complete the season.