General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Guy:Incognito

pjohnson wrote: »

Those two points have passed though. There isnt a 3rd window for transfers. So if they really want to stick to finishing THIS season then transfers cant be permitted as there isn't a chance to register new players.

TBH I think you're making much more of it than there needs to be. They may well decide to close the window , but equally they may not.

It's always been the case that free agents can sign at any time anyway afaik, so as it stands, if a player was a free agent in April say, theyd be free to sign for any club that wants them

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

As an example (utd specific) it would be nice to cash in on Pogba for arguments sake and get fresh legs in before the seasons out!

On the other hand, he could be fit by then and Ole might play him

pjohnson

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why would anyone need to pay them They were out of contract anyway, they'll have been paid up till their contracts end. They are then free to go play for someone else and get paid as normal.

If they are playing for the club they would need to be registered employee's of the club and therefore under contract. I mean Liverpool had to formally sign and register Andy Lonergan as a player they couldn't just have him wander in unregistered or have him as a mascot sitting on the bench......


Theres a load of red tape involved in player contracts.

Guy:Incognito

pjohnson wrote: »

If they are playing for the club they would need to be registered employee's of the club. I mean Liverpool had to formally sign and register Andy Lonergan as a player they couldn't just have him wander in unregistered or have him as a mascot sitting on the bench.....

I only meant in a situation where they were out of contract and had no club. Obviously if they were going to be playing they'd re-sign, on a short term deal at least.

y0ssar1an22

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why would anyone need to pay them They were out of contract anyway, they'll have been paid up till their contracts end. They are then free to go play for someone else and get paid as normal.

So transfer window opens as normal regardless of when season finishes?

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

On the other hand, he could be fit by then and Ole might play him

Bruno says no

brinty

FitzShane wrote:

It's very easy to give extension to contracts to suit this longer time. Transfer won't go through until the new period of registration opens. And loans can easily be extended also.

Contacts are there for a reason

Both parties have rights under them

It's very "not easy" to extend contracts to suit this.

The players have a right to leave on the 30th June. Clubs have a right to say we've lost most of our team with expired contracts. I.e. Bournemouth

The season extending means you're into the summer transfer window, so teams can have new players who are technically employed but also technically not allowed play in the 19/20 season as they were not on the books at the close of the January transfer window

It's a legal minefield and EPL will have to fall into line with what UEFA dictates.

Guy:Incognito

brinty wrote: »

Contacts are there for a reason

Both parties have rights under them

It's very "not easy" to extend contracts to suit this.

The players have a right to leave on the 30th June. Clubs have a right to say we've lost most of our team with expired contracts. I.e. Bournemouth

The season extending means you're into the summer transfer window, so teams can have new players who are technically employed but also technically not allowed play in the 19/20 season as they were not on the books at the close of the January transfer window

It's a legal minefield and EPL will have to fall into line with what UEFA dictates.

No one is saying anyone is forced to extend a contract they dont want FFS .

Its very easy to extend a contract,

Club: do you fancy staying the extra month or two till the season is done so you can play, we'll pay you the same wages

Player: yeah, thats grand , cheers / no thanks, I'll go elsewhere

See, very simple.

y0ssar1an22

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one is saying anyone is forced to extend a contract they dont want FFS .

Its very easy to extend a contract,

Club: do you fancy staying the extra month or two till the season is done so you can play, we'll pay you the same wages

Player: yeah, thats grand , cheers / no thanks, I'll go elsewhere

See, very simple.

Then you have clubs footing the bill for an extended contract because of a rule the pl passed.
Who should cover these costs?

Can the player go elsewhere, is the window open as per normal in your scenario?

Guy:Incognito

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Then you have clubs footing the bill for an extended contract because of a rule the pl passed.
Who should cover these costs?

Can the player go elsewhere, is the window open as per normal in your scenario?

Footing what bill? They are choosing to sign and pay the player. No one is forced in to anything.

Of course they can go anywhere. Out of contract players can do that whenever they like.

Shanotheslayer

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Footing what bill? They are choosing to sign and pay the player. No one is forced in to anything.

Of course they can go anywhere. Out of contract players can do that whenever they like.

The point yos is making is they wouldn't have had to sign this player if the PL didn't change the rules. So it's costing the club money to sign to a player they should have had for the season already

y0ssar1an22

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Footing what bill? They are choosing to sign and pay the player. No one is forced in to anything.

Of course they can go anywhere. Out of contract players can do that whenever they like.

See above for paragraph 1.

Clubs can only register players during the transfer window. Was it arda Turan that trained with Barcelona for a few months before they could register him?

Collie D

It wouldn’t be that hard to open a new window. In fact it would be quite easy. All date based rules will become less rigid.

New window, pay per play, contract extensions, etc. are all options. They’re not inventing time travel.

Guy:Incognito

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The point yos is making is they wouldn't have had to sign this player if the PL didn't change the rules. So it's costing the club money to sign to a player they should have had for the season already

Its such a minor point in the scheme of things that its only being made to be argumentative.

Clubs can choose to have the players or not. Short of a time machine, we are where we are. The clubs and the league are changing things to get by , theres no way to alter the past so you change what you can. The club and the player can only come to an agreement about things that can actually change. Unless the player wants to play for free, the club has to pay them. Theres no way around that, so it'd not worth arguing over. Even if the PL paid the players, ultimately the clubs are paying anyway.

pjohnson

Collie D wrote: »

It wouldn’t be that hard to open a new window. In fact it would be quite easy. All date based rules will become less rigid.

New window, pay per play, contract extensions, etc. are all options. They’re not inventing time travel.

New window would be fine but if its supposed to be THIS season that is to be finished then clubs should have to use the players they would have normally had in the run in to THIS seasons finish. This season didnt have another transfer window so squads shouldn't change. (Barring promoting kids already at the club)

Guy:Incognito

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

See above for paragraph 1.

Clubs can only register players during the transfer window. Was it arda Turan that trained with Barcelona for a few months before they could register him?

Clubs can register free agents at any stage if theyve been release before the end of a transfer window.

The transfer window will be open when these players become free agents anyway, so no issue with them signing.

Guy:Incognito

pjohnson wrote: »

New window would be fine but if its supposed to be THIS season that is to be finished then clubs should have to use the players they would have normally had in the run in to THIS seasons finish. This season didnt have another transfer window so squads shouldn't change. (Barring promoting kids already at the club)

Things change. You cant force players to stay. Just like if a player retires mid season or a loan finishes.

~Rebel~

brinty wrote: »

Hahahaha

Ye all reckon they're going to be back by the 30th of April. There's more hope an asteroid hits the Earth in April

Do you still believe Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny too lads.

The peak off this won't even have hit Britain by April.

But keep dreaming your little fantasies.

....it didn’t say it will be back by April 30th. It said it definitely won’t be back before April 30th. Those are two different things.

brinty wrote: »

Contacts are there for a reason

Both parties have rights under them

It's very "not easy" to extend contracts to suit this.

The players have a right to leave on the 30th June. Clubs have a right to say we've lost most of our team with expired contracts. I.e. Bournemouth

The season extending means you're into the summer transfer window, so teams can have new players who are technically employed but also technically not allowed play in the 19/20 season as they were not on the books at the close of the January transfer window

This’ll be an interesting one alright, I could see the sense in another small transfer window, like the winter one, to allow teams that lose players who are out of contract to reinforce. Or even something like an emergency transfer system, similar to Spain’s, where if you lose someone you’re allowed to replace them. A lot of interesting options they can work with I think.

It's a legal minefield and EPL will have to fall into line with what UEFA dictates.

I don’t actually think they do. Any new players probably couldn’t play in Europe, but as mentioned above, Spain already have their own system where you can replace season-long injured players at any time from within the Spanish league system.

So while the PL might have an issue sorting out pan-European transfers without Uefa’s blessing, there could be an intra-England transfer window, where players could move within the English leagues, and I don’t think UEFA would have any oversight, just like they don’t in that Spanish instance.

dogbert27

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its such a minor point in the scheme of things that its only being made to be argumentative.

Clubs can choose to have the players or not. Short of a time machine, we are where we are. The clubs and the league are changing things to get by , theres no way to alter the past so you change what you can. The club and the player can only come to an agreement about things that can actually change. Unless the player wants to play for free, the club has to pay them. Theres no way around that, so it'd not worth arguing over. Even if the PL paid the players, ultimately the clubs are paying anyway.

Clubs can offer players out of contract a pay for play contract for a short duration or as you say a 9 games extension to see out the season.

I'm sure the likes of Lovren and Lallana would take the contract extension to still be at the club for winning the PL.

dogbert27

I posted this in the Liverpool thread too but applies to the general PL:

The PL seeing things logically.

It's 9 games that can easily be played all together in 1 month.

The last game in the PL was only 10 days ago so to go jumping straight in to voiding the league by some quarters was purely with self interest, e.g. Karen Brady and if anything shows how little faith she has in David Moyes and her players.

For Liverpool, if City were to lose the next game and Liverpool win then that's it. League won in the first game back or latest 2 games back with 2 wins.

There's so much more riding on the league to be completed for all the other teams that besides West Ham right now, I don't see the logic for any one to be calling on the season to be voided while we're still in March.

Mitch Connor

dogbert27 wrote: »

I posted this in the Liverpool thread too but applies to the general PL:

The PL seeing things logically.

It's 9 games that can easily be played all together in 1 month.

The last game in the PL was only 10 days ago so to go jumping straight in to voiding the league by some quarters was purely with self interest, e.g. Karen Brady and if anything shows how little faith she has in David Moyes and her players.

For Liverpool, if City were to lose the next game and Liverpool win then that's it. League won in the first game back or latest 2 games back with 2 wins.

There's so much more riding on the league to be completed for all the other teams that besides West Ham right now, I don't see the logic for any one to be calling on the season to be voided while we're still in March.

It's 9 games plus the fa Cup, plus any euro games. They can't operate the league calendar in a vaccum.

joeguevara

dogbert27 wrote: »

I posted this in the Liverpool thread too but applies to the general PL:

The PL seeing things logically.

It's 9 games that can easily be played all together in 1 month.

The last game in the PL was only 10 days ago so to go jumping straight in to voiding the league by some quarters was purely with self interest, e.g. Karen Brady and if anything shows how little faith she has in David Moyes and her players.

For Liverpool, if City were to lose the next game and Liverpool win then that's it. League won in the first game back or latest 2 games back with 2 wins.

There's so much more riding on the league to be completed for all the other teams that besides West Ham right now, I don't see the logic for any one to be calling on the season to be voided while we're still in March.

9 games in a month for teams that haven’t been training and players that won’t be fit, with also jphuge amounts worrying about friends and family that are sick. Right.,simple.

dogbert27

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It's 9 games plus the fa Cup, plus any euro games. They can't operate the league calendar in a vaccum.

The European games will be behind domestic competitions in order of completion.

There will still be countries with different stages of return so cross continent games will be last on the list.

Equally with the FA Cup. Teams will focus on the premier league completion first.

Iago

~Rebel~ wrote: »

....it didn’t say it will be back by April 30th. It said it definitely won’t be back before April 30th. Those are two different things.






This’ll be an interesting one alright, I could see the sense in another small transfer window, like the winter one, to allow teams that lose players who are out of contract to reinforce. Or even something like an emergency transfer system, similar to Spain’s, where if you lose someone you’re allowed to replace them. A lot of interesting options they can work with I think.



I don’t actually think they do. Any new players probably couldn’t play in Europe, but as mentioned above, Spain already have their own system where you can replace season-long injured players at any time from within the Spanish league system.

So while the PL might have an issue sorting out pan-European transfers without Uefa’s blessing, there could be an intra-England transfer window, where players could move within the English leagues, and I don’t think UEFA would have any oversight, just like they don’t in that Spanish instance.

Bear in mind that the Spanish system, while not unique, would very hard to replicate in the Uk this season.

All Spanish players have a minimum feee release clause, essentially the selling club doesn’t have a choice and also can’t replace the player sold in a similar way.

If we think there’ll be legal problems over voiding a season imagine the fallout from clubs being forced to sell players and not replace them.

The more I think about it the more I think the leagues will all start up in summer, play for two months then start again in January with the euros pushed out to August and then the following season a calender year as well to allow for Qatar.

That depends on the virus being eradicated though, who knows when that will happen fully.

eagle eye

Iago wrote:

That depends on the virus being eradicated though, who knows when that will happen fully.

We're talking October/ November 2021 before a vaccine is available to everybody

niallo27

eagle eye wrote: »

We're talking October/ November 2021 before a vaccine is available to everybody

That's worst case scenario in fairness.

dogbert27

joeguevara wrote: »

9 games in a month for teams that haven’t been training and players that won’t be fit, with also jphuge amounts worrying about friends and family that are sick. Right.,simple.

I still have to turn up for work everyday. I'm currently stuck in a country for over the next 3 weeks at a minimum without being able to see my wife and kids.

Society has to function. We can't stay in isolation for months. People have to get back out and work to pay for the living.

All players currently have an individual training programme sent to them by their clubs so it's not like they'll all be returning like Charlie Adam to a pre-season.

If the PL want to finish the season quickly it can be done once safe to resume.

citytillidie

Can fall in line with the summer league transfer windows

The_Kew_Tour

We won’t really know for another Month/6 weeks that’s the reality sadly.

Hopefully we see a ray of light but latest figures today across globe I’m starting get less optimistic this will be ok by end of June

~Rebel~

Iago wrote: »

Bear in mind that the Spanish system, while not unique, would very hard to replicate in the Uk this season.

All Spanish players have a minimum feee release clause, essentially the selling club doesn’t have a choice and also can’t replace the player sold in a similar way.

If we think there’ll be legal problems over voiding a season imagine the fallout from clubs being forced to sell players and not replace them.

The more I think about it the more I think the leagues will all start up in summer, play for two months then start again in January with the euros pushed out to August and then the following season a calender year as well to allow for Qatar.

That depends on the virus being eradicated though, who knows when that will happen fully.

I’m not saying to use the exact same system, just pointing towards them as proof that there are existing systems outside the norm.

A normal short transfer window, exclusively for trading within England, could be an option if it looked like some clubs might be decimated by contracts running out.

I think generally you’re right though, my suggestions were in answer to the other chap talking about needing Uefa's blessing for transfers, so was providing alt ideas where they wouldn’t. I think you’re right that all the major leagues will probably fall into line in some capacity.

Ikozma

Liverpool fc premier league champions 2020
Sounds great doesn't it, its gonna be some party

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

More embarrassing watching grown men get triggered over who thanks their posts and then hypocritical do it themselves anyway

It's a cute obsession that nobody gives a **** about anywhere on this website accept the soccer forum

First step is admitting your obsession.

noodler

joeguevara wrote: »

9 games in a month for teams that haven’t been training and players that won’t be fit, with also jphuge amounts worrying about friends and family that are sick. Right.,simple.

Championship do it all season

noodler

noodler wrote: »

First step is admitting your obsession.

I'm glad you are progressing to step 2

Fitz*

PL clubs will have to pay back £762m to TV broadcasters if the season is not finished.

Which basically means rhat the clubs will have to ensure that they do everything that they possibly can do to finish the season.

893bet

Indefinitely.

Wonderful prose.

niallo27

Taking out being a liverpool fan, we need football back. Even behind closed doors. We will need an escape from all this ****. I'm taking 5 to 6 months time.

joeguevara

noodler wrote: »

Championship do it all season

Championship teams play without training for months. Jesus I learn something new every day.

~Rebel~

joeguevara wrote: »

Championship teams play without training for months. Jesus I learn something new every day.

I feel like you’re maybe looking at the most negative aspect of every angle on this - not even the most realistic, but the actual worst.

You mention players forced to play without training, whilst worrying about their sick families.

This won’t be happening while there is still widespread sickness. This is all for after we pass that point.

For a month or two, or however long is needed, they’ll just work out from home with their personal regime. Then (as becomes appropriate), since each individual cell has been isolating, you can have these cells come together in training grounds, where each person has been confirmed clear. Probably small groups working together at first, then those groups coming together for full team training in the build up to football returning.

Basically an exact mirror of how the rest of society will begin to reintegrate.

joeguevara

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I feel like you’re maybe looking at the most negative aspect of every angle on this - not even the most realistic, but the actual worst.

You mention players forced to play without training, whilst worrying about their sick families.

This won’t be happening while there is still widespread sickness. This is all for after we pass that point.

And long before the ok is given for full football to be played, clubs will have already been back training together. They’ll get a month at minimum now, maybe two, with just isolation and their own personal regimes. Then, as each individual cell has been isolating, you can have cells come together in training grounds, where each person has been confirmed clear. Probably small groups at first, then those groups coming together for full team training in the build up to football returning.

Basically an exact mirror of how the rest of society will begin to reintegrate.

I am being realistic. U.K. in all likelihood with their approach to this will be the most affected after Italy. This is not worse case scenario.

~Rebel~

joeguevara wrote: »

I am being realistic. U.K. in all likelihood with their approach to this will be the most affected after Italy. This is not worse case scenario.

They might well be, and it will take a while. But there’s no rush. They don’t need to start playing football while things are still bad. However long it takes for things to improve there, that’s how long we’ll wait.

No ones going to be playing while the virus is still rampant. No one is going to be out on the field kicking a ball around worrying about their sick families like you suggest.

We have literally forever. When things clear enough for isolated players to return to training, they’ll return to training. When things clear enough for them to safely play matches, they’ll play matches.

noodler

joeguevara wrote: »

Championship teams play without training for months. Jesus I learn something new every day.

Teams are training.

Might be alone but they are.

You are going to have to get real.

None of this is perfect, the first few games being poorer for a lack of match fitness is acceptable.

joeguevara

noodler wrote: »

Teams are training.

Might be alone but they are.

You are going to have to get real.

None of this is perfect, the first few games being poorer for a lack of match fitness is acceptable.

I am being real. I just don’t think it is possible to complete this season and then start another one. I don’t think anyone would wish for this to be happening. This is not going to be a couple of weeks off and just start again.

Hitchens

Manchester United will continue to pay all casual matchday staff even if the remainder of their season is cancelled or played behind closed doors.

Nice gesture in fairness

noodler

joeguevara wrote: »

I am being real. I just don’t think it is possible to complete this season and then start another one. I don’t think anyone would wish for this to be happening. This is not going to be a couple of weeks off and just start again.

Let's stick to the original point.

IF the thing clears up, a bit of rustiness isn't and shouldnt stop the games being played.

joeguevara

noodler wrote: »

Let's stick to the original point.

IF the thing clears up, a bit of rustiness isn't and shouldnt stop the games being played.

There would have to be a type of pre season of a month from full clearance to train, in order to prepare teams for the most important matches. I have always said that.

~Rebel~

joeguevara wrote: »

I am being real. I just don’t think it is possible to complete this season and then start another one. I don’t think anyone would wish for this to be happening. This is not going to be a couple of weeks off and just start again.

No one thinks it’s just a few weeks off...

As for when the following season starts, does it really matter? I’d expect after they finish this one they’ll take a month off, have a transfer window, and then get back to it - whenever that may be. If it’s 2 months, grand. If it’s 6 months, grand. If it’s a year, grand. The actual dates don’t matter. The one thing we’re not lacking is time.

joeguevara

You Never Walk Alone, to play across Europe in show of unity.

https://youtu.be/8H9T7427EbI

joeguevara

~Rebel~ wrote: »

No one thinks it’s just a few weeks off...

As for when the following season starts, does it really matter? I’d expect after they finish this one they’ll take a month off, have a transfer window, and then get back to it - whenever that may be. If it’s 2 months, grand. If it’s 6 months, grand. If it’s a year, grand. The actual dates don’t matter. The one thing we’re not lacking is time.

We are not lacking in time. Football teams are though. Longer it takes to get new football tv revenue in the worse it will be. That is the crux of everything.

y0ssar1an22

proper order.....

"Irish Rugby's 2019/20 domestic season is to conclude with immediate effect due to ongoing concerns over coronavirus.

"Government action in combating the virus looks set to continue beyond March 29th. Irish Rugby wants to play its part while giving clubs the chance to put plans in place for the 2020/21 season.

"The directive applies to all incomplete national and provincial competitions."

"The decision to end the domestic rugby season for 2019/2020 season has not been made lightly. All options were discussed and the IRFU is satisfied it has arrived at the only equitable solution.

"These are challenging times for us all and we know clubs will be impacted by this directive, but we will look back at this season as one where we put the physical welfare of our rugby community above all else.

"Clubs are now in a position to make plans for the 2020/21 season. We look forward to marking the 30th anniversary of the All-Ireland League."

:pac: