General Premier League Thread 2019-20

yourdeadwright

8-10 wrote: »

By that argument, treating the virus as some sort of sentient vested interest in the fate of the league, the virus wins if you void it and don't go on as before.

The biggest F*ck you to the virus is a vaccine. That's the priority here.

Football should be stopped. It is. That's all.

I was saying anything that has been stopped not just football should resume as normal after all this ,
Obviously football is just a sport and fun

Chuck Noland

citytillidie wrote: »

Just going on this

https://twitter.com/Chris78Williams/status/1243524003991617536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243524003991617536&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058060512%26page%3D15

Calendar leagues have finished so for teams to get into the CL and EL there winter league would need to be finished going by that.

I’m only going off what the itailian FA have stated previously and no one from UEFA has de bunked them. Least not publicly anyway

Father Hernandez

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Actually now that you mention a season ticket I'm curious.

If the league is voided, will season ticket holders get some sort of refund?

I'd paid for 2 tickets to United games in April & May and been told if the games are postponed/behind closed doors, we'll get refunds.

For ST holders, United said they'll offer either a pro-rata rebate against their season tickets for next year, or a pro-rata cash refund based on the number of games still to be played. Would imagine it's the same for other PL clubs.

TheCitizen

giveitholly wrote: »

Talks of him going to utd,this could scupper his big money move

Would be madness for any top club to hand over big money for that idiot. Clearly doesn't have the temperament and discipline to make it with a top club.

TheCitizen

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Harry Kane wants the season finished by June or cancelled. Much like west ham who are pushing this Spurs would be the big winners in this case.

Poor stuff from Kane, so transparent that it'd be in his clubs selfish interests to scrap the season. The season should finish out or should be called as it is and each team placed where they stand.

jacool

TheCitizen wrote: »

Poor stuff from Kane, so transparent that it'd be in his clubs selfish interests to scrap the season. The season should finish out or should be called as it is and each team placed where they stand.

He also said "I'll always love Spurs, but it's one of those things. I've always said if I don't feel like we're progressing as a team or going in the right direction, I'm not someone to stay there just for the sake of it."

So not only are Spurs selfish, but so, it seems, is Harry.
Maybe they were made for each other.
He has signed a contract up to 2024.

yourdeadwright

jacool wrote: »

He also said "I'll always love Spurs, but it's one of those things. I've always said if I don't feel like we're progressing as a team or going in the right direction, I'm not someone to stay there just for the sake of it."

So not only are Spurs selfish, but so, it seems, is Harry.
Maybe they were made for each other.
He has signed a contract up to 2024.

Iv been saying it for a long time but I think Harry will replace Sergio at City ,

Rock77

TheCitizen wrote: »

Poor stuff from Kane, so transparent that it'd be in his clubs selfish interests to scrap the season. The season should finish out or should be called as it is and each team placed where they stand.

Couldn’t disagree more about each team placed where they stand. There’s only one thing more unfair than voiding the season and that’s placing teams where they stand..

TheCitizen

jacool wrote: »

He also said "I'll always love Spurs, but it's one of those things. I've always said if I don't feel like we're progressing as a team or going in the right direction, I'm not someone to stay there just for the sake of it."

So not only are Spurs selfish, but so, it seems, is Harry.
Maybe they were made for each other.
He has signed a contract up to 2024.

I don't know who'd buy with the price on his head? Because he's an English player he will be ridiculously over priced.

When Man United paid 75m was it for Lukaku that time Kane would have cost probably 200m at that time if Spurs were to cash in but he's not more than twice as good a player than Lukaku, so even in the land of astronomical fees for top footballers Kane represents such poor value for money that any move for him becomes very difficult.

Could easily happen that Kane will be stuck at spurs his entire career and never win anything, a null and void career bar the money.

TheCitizen

Rock77 wrote: »

Couldn’t disagree more about each team placed where they stand. There’s only one thing more unfair than voiding the season and that’s placing teams where they stand..

Finishing where they stand may have to be the option for Euro places for next season.

I don't know how you'd come to the conclusion that finishing where they stand with more than 3/4 of the season completed is less unfair than scrapping the whole season?

TheCitizen

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Iv been saying it for a long time but I think Harry will replace Sergio at City ,

City have a transfer ban do they not? Or a European ban hanging over them cos of FFP.

I doubt they'll be paying over the odds for any player right now and 'Arry is more over the odds and poor value for money in terms of a transfer fee than anyone anywhere.

Rock77

TheCitizen wrote: »

Finishing where they stand may have to be the option for Euro places for next season.

I don't know how you'd come to the conclusion that finishing where they stand with more than 3/4 of the season completed is less unfair than scrapping the whole season?

I certainly don’t have all the answers and they may have few options depending on the time frame for everything but,

Crowning a team champions when they haven’t won anything, relegating teams when they haven’t been relegated, not giving a team their chance to win a title they are so close to, not giving teams their chance of promotion are all things I see as extremely unfair.

Finish the season whenever it’s safe to play.

Father Hernandez

Can see lots of arguments for and against finishing the league as is versus declaring it null and void.

Interesting that if Coronavirus happened in March 2014 and they finished the season as is with every team in the league standings, Leicester would've been relegated and never would've won the league in 2016.

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

Finishing where they stand may have to be the option for Euro places for next season.

I don't know how you'd come to the conclusion that finishing where they stand with more than 3/4 of the season completed is less unfair than scrapping the whole season?

Finishing as is only has some merit if everyone had played the same amount of games imo.

Whatever about being relegated by the season finishing early , but that happening when you've a game in hand would be beyond unfair.

TheCitizen

Rock77 wrote: »

I certainly don’t have all the answers and they may have few options depending on the time frame for everything but,

Crowning a team champions when they haven’t won anything, relegating teams when they haven’t been relegated, not giving a team their chance to win a title they are so close to, not giving teams their chance of promotion are all things I see as extremely unfair.

Finish the season whenever it’s safe to play.

I think that is the best option but it would need a European wide approach and all leagues buying into it. It would mean CL and EL qualifiers that start in June for some leagues would also be put back till everyone's domestic league is done. The following season would then need to be an agreed in advance truncated season and scrapping of domestic Cups for that season if needed.

Declaring it null and void is not an option at all in my opinion and it'll be financial concerns that will tip that balance.

Why would the TV companies hand over money for something that's null and void or be expected to stump up again for the following season if the last one was written off as if nothing happened? Wouldn't ST holders be entitled to their money back if it's null and void? Null and Void would be ruled out I reckon.

Agent Coulson

Listening to Rory K Smith saying between 20 to 30 teams in the National Leagues are now considering legal action to get the decision to void there season overturned.

If that many teams that far down the league pyramid are pissed off I can imagine how many teams in the professional leagues would take it.


West Brom are in their final season of parachute payments and have budgeted at getting into the premier league if the season is voided do get get another season of parachute payments from the premier league I don't thinks so.

Leeds have invested heavily over the last two seasons to get back into the premier league.

The play off final is the richest game in football Fulham, Brentford, Forrest, Preston and a few other teams still in the running to get to the play offs for that.

Then you have the teams in league 1 & 2.

Any sign of a statement from Grealish or Villa.

It's a hard one to explain away, he must at the very least be in trouble for breaking the lockdown, I guess leaving the scene of an accident is also on the cards, and then you have the whole "unsteady on his feet" wearing a slipper and a shoe...

billyhead

Deleted User wrote: »

Any sign of a statement from Grealish or Villa.

It's a hard one to explain away, he must at the very least be in trouble for breaking the lockdown, I guess leaving the scene of an accident is also on the cards, and then you have the whole "unsteady on his feet" wearing a slipper and a shoe...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1244658828932767744
Tosser

Agent Coulson

There is a reason Southgate hasn't called him up and its not to his footballing ability.

The word used in the post above sums it perfectly.

"...once this has all boiled over..."

It sounds like he doesn't really get the gravity of the matter. His club, the FA and probably the police will have to look into this, and calling round to a friend doesn't explain why he crashed, why he appeared unsteady, where he went to before police arrived etc.

MD1990

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/03/30/fa-threatened-legal-action-inexcusable-haste-scrapping-non-league/

PL & EFL have to finish,

Rock77

MD1990 wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/03/30/fa-threatened-legal-action-inexcusable-haste-scrapping-non-league/

PL & EFL have to finish,

To me it reads like their issue is it was decided so soon.. as in what if football resumes quicker than expected but they have already cancelled their season.

PL and EFL do not have to finish, nor does the season have to be cancelled. Nobody knows the outcome yet, the definitive posts look very silly, let’s hope the season does finish but let’s stop pretending we know the answer..

Ohmeha

Deleted User wrote: »

Any sign of a statement from Grealish or Villa.

It's a hard one to explain away, he must at the very least be in trouble for breaking the lockdown, I guess leaving the scene of an accident is also on the cards, and then you have the whole "unsteady on his feet" wearing a slipper and a shoe...

Was Richie Keogh found in the car?

Guy:Incognito

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-cut-staff-wages-20-per-cent-coronavirus-daniel-levy-a4402551.html#Echobox=1585650240

Well done spurs. It's about time those fat cats in the canteen stopped lining their pockets on the backs of the working class like Dele Alli and Harry Kane.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-cut-staff-wages-20-per-cent-coronavirus-daniel-levy-a4402551.html#Echobox=1585650240

Well done spurs. It's about time those fat cats in the canteen stopped lining their pockets on the backs of the working class like Dele Alli and Harry Kane.

If they are maintaining his and the players wages at current levels, that's fairly outrageous.

MD1990

https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1244976982917603330

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

If they are maintaining his and the players wages at current levels, that's fairly outrageous.

TBH , the first thing that should have happened when there was any talk of ordinary staff getting a cut (assuming Spurs cant actually afford to pay the staff) is a message on the players whatsapp to see how much they need to give up for the staff to keep getting paid.

I'd like to think that if something happened to to someone in work, the rest of the folks would get on board with chucking in 20 or 30 quid a week each to look after them. When youre talking about PL players on their wages , they should have no issue giving up a few grand a week to support the staff. Some of these are the people that look after the players in their jobs. Feeding them, washing the facilities they use, their gear etc.

TitianGerm

MD1990 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1244976982917603330

Does that headline mean that the 45 clubs could go bust?

LuckyLloyd

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

TBH , the first thing that should have happened when there was any talk of ordinary staff getting a cut (assuming Spurs cant actually afford to pay the staff) is a message on the players whatsapp to see how much they need to give up for the staff to keep getting paid.

I'd like to think that if something happened to to someone in work, the rest of the folks would get on board with chucking in 20 or 30 quid a week each to look after them. When youre talking about PL players on their wages , they should have no issue giving up a few grand a week to support the staff. Some of these are the people that look after the players in their jobs. Feeding them, washing the facilities they use, their gear etc.

If it actually ends up coming to pass that support staff at a top level club lose their wages while players continue getting paid in full, well...what could you ever say about the character of the players involved that would be harsh enough? Nevermind the owners or executive staff who failed to demonstrate leadership in the situation involved.

This won't happen. The people involved have agents who will convince them to avoid this at all costs!

citytillidie

TitianGerm wrote: »

Does that headline mean that the 45 clubs could go bust?

Yes that is what the Football League is worried about voiding the season will see lower league teams going bust

Hodors Appletart

It says in the piece that there are ongoing talks involving the PFA. I suspect there will be a collective announcement around player wages etc.

as talks continue between the Premier League, clubs and the Professional Footballers' Association over wage cuts or deferrals during football's shutdown.

smelly sock

citytillidie wrote: »

Yes that is what the Football League is worried about voiding the season will see lower league teams going bust

Im not sure how anything else would work for the EFL. To many games left to play and many promotions / relegations to be decided.

All professional divisions in england will more than likely have to be voided to avoid multiple legal actions etc.

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

Im not sure how anything else would work for the EFL. To many games left to play and many promotions / relegations to be decided.

All professional divisions in england will more than likely have to be voided to avoid multiple legal actions etc.

You could easily say this too

All professional divisions in england will more than likely not be voided to avoid multiple legal actions etc.

gimli2112

People have a preference and then build their argument around that. Then argue it ad nauseum. I'm just worried about all the kids now playing video games and the ensuing gun violence.

dogbert27

So lets just say the leagues get null and voided. That means the 19/20 season never happened.

Do January transfers get reversed?

Do manager sackings get reversed?

dogbert27

3 Divisions of the National League suspended indefinitely

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52092442

Cork Boy 53

dogbert27 wrote: »

3 Divisions of the National League suspended indefinitely

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52092442

Suspended not declared null and void as yet anyway.

citytillidie

dogbert27 wrote: »

3 Divisions of the National League suspended indefinitely

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52092442

And over 100 lower league clubs have written to the FA about voiding their league it’s going to be interesting to see what happens either way

y0ssar1an22

citytillidie wrote: »

Yes that is what the Football League is worried about voiding the season will see lower league teams going bust

how will they go bust if the season is voided?

Fitz*

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

how will they go bust if the season is voided?

Clubs throughout the football pyramid will have to give back TV money that could be already spent.

Clubs will have to give back season tickets money to fans, again that could already be spent.

Some clubs are still in the parachute payments scheme with this money already spent also. Clubs like WBA who spent it inorder to get into the PL this season and won't receive another parachute payment so they could face years of debt if they stay in the championship, same with Leeds who have spent a bit on the basis of getting promoted this season. Bielsa & Bilic might not stick around for another season in the Championship either.

Where will clubs gets all this money to hand back if they have already spent it on transfers, wages & infrastructure?

Strumms

dogbert27 wrote: »

So lets just say the leagues get null and voided. That means the 19/20 season never happened.

Do January transfers get reversed?

Do manager sackings get reversed?

The results would be null and voided, a club signing a player would be a business transaction not a sporting result... the problems are not being able to see out an on field sporting set of fixtures... nothing to do with the business stuff, sackings, transfers. My read of it anyway, especially since we’ve passed both windows.

~Rebel~

Strumms wrote: »

The results would be null and voided, a club signing a player would be a business transaction not a sporting result... the problems are not being able to see out an on field sporting set of fixtures... nothing to do with the business stuff, sackings, transfers. My read of it anyway, especially since we’ve passed both windows.

Out of curiosity I wonder what happens with career stats? Kane, Aguero, Salah, Mane, Vardy etc's goal records, are their goals this season removed from their records? Do appearance stats get rolled back for everyone?

Not to mention all the weird little conundrums with player contracts, like what about any clauses for wage structure based on targets - if they just replay the season, does a Spurs player get his bonus for them being in the Champions League next season, despite looking like missing out this season on the 75% of a seasons merit? If the seasons were to be replayed as if the past year never happened, one would imagine all this comes down to the wording in contracts, and player agents will be fairly rabid in pursuing their piece of the pie where possible (as they always are in all things)

The more I think about it, the more I just see Europes big leagues agreeing on starting up at the same time to finish their seasons and pushing the next season off for as long as it needs to be. In contrast to the millions of complications (and pounds/euros) from trying to replay the seasons, the only real sacrifice from continuing where they left off is scheduling. And given that there is literally football year round anyway, scheduling is something they can handle. Everything gets pushed to where it makes sense, which needs to happen soon with WC2022 anyway.

Agent Coulson

Would players have to pay back appearance fees, goal bonuses, win bonuses, clean sheet bonuses for games that never happend if thy are all null and voided?

Way too many issues involved to actual null and void a season.

Rock77

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Would players have to pay back appearance fees, goal bonuses, win bonuses, clean sheet bonuses for games that never happend if thy are all null and voided?

Way too many issues involved to actual null and void a season.

I think you are trying to make it more complicated than it actually is.

I would be pretty sure that no club will ask players for money back for appearances they made this season even if the season is cancelled.

My issue with null and void is fairness, it would be absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, but no player will have to pay any club money back.. silly stuff in my opinion

citytillidie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Out of curiosity I wonder what happens with career stats? Kane, Aguero, Salah, Mane, Vardy etc's goal records, are their goals this season removed from their records? Do appearance stats get rolled back for everyone?

Not to mention all the weird little conundrums with player contracts, like what about any clauses for wage structure based on targets - if they just replay the season, does a Spurs player get his bonus for them being in the Champions League next season, despite looking like missing out this season on the 75% of a seasons merit? If the seasons were to be replayed as if the past year never happened, one would imagine all this comes down to the wording in contracts, and player agents will be fairly rabid in pursuing their piece of the pie where possible (as they always are in all things)

The more I think about it, the more I just see Europes big leagues agreeing on starting up at the same time to finish their seasons and pushing the next season off for as long as it needs to be. In contrast to the millions of complications (and pounds/euros) from trying to replay the seasons, the only real sacrifice from continuing where they left off is scheduling. And given that there is literally football year round anyway, scheduling is something they can handle. Everything gets pushed to where it makes sense, which needs to happen soon with WC2022 anyway.

They would have to you can't have goals in games that did not take place, we may find out more today there is another UEFA meeting at some point today.

Agent Coulson

Rock77 wrote: »

I think you are trying to make it more complicated than it actually is.

I would be pretty sure that no club will ask players for money back for appearances they made this season even if the season is cancelled.

My issue with null and void is fairness, it would be absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, but no player will have to pay any club money back.. silly stuff in my opinion

The clubs will have to pay back multi millions to different parties if the season is null and voided which which will effect the players. It may not effect current players appearances fees that have been paid out however their end of season bonuses will undoubtedly be effected if the season is null and voided.

8-10

Agent Coulson wrote: »

however their end of season bonuses will undoubtedly be effected if the season is null and voided.

Exactly. Although maybe there's some bonuses that would need to be paid, e.g. any Norwich player with a bonus on not getting relegated if those exist.

Would depend a lot on how contracts are worded.

Augme

Rock77 wrote: »

I think you are trying to make it more complicated than it actually is.

I would be pretty sure that no club will ask players for money back for appearances they made this season even if the season is cancelled.

My issue with null and void is fairness, it would be absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, but no player will have to pay any club money back.. silly stuff in my opinion

A lot of clubs are so desperate for money that I would be surprised if they didn't ask for that money back. Add in appearance bonuses, clean sheet, goals etc it would amount to a decent amount. Would be amazed if every club just let them have it.

dogbert27

Opinion of a sports lawyer on what might happen if league is voided.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8173173/Coronavirus-UK-voiding-Premier-League-EFL-seasons-cause-chaos.html

Cookiemunster

Lads, even if the season is voided, those games were played and televised. You can't demand money back for something that was provided. The TV companies can withhold further payments, but the can't look for a return of monies for games that they already broadcast. If you take that logic to it's conclusion, then subscribers to Sky and BT can demand a refund of their subscriptions going back to last August. That's not going to happen.