General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Shanotheslayer

rgace wrote: »

Why not finish the season in 2021 then?

We will have to wait and see when football can restart again i suppose but I believe Liverpool will be awarded the title either way, professional teams are not as petty as fans and can accept being beaten by the better team.

The issue isn't thinking that Liverpool are deserved winners. The issue is it sets precedent for future years.

Where do you draw the line? Liverpool need 2 games to win. What if it was 3/4/5? Why would it be acceptable 1 year and not another?

The worst thing they can do is afford a title to a team that didn't fulfil the fixtures imo.

rgace

It's not ideal but sure if contracts expire so be it, it will be just like a longer January transfer window.

Hopefully this doesn't happen again for a very long time but if it does then a decision can be made based on the situation at the time.

citytillidie

is_that_so wrote: »

The biggest problem is contracts expiring and the ability of players to be able to move.

UEFA have suspended those registration deadlines and other things so that is one way around those contract issue

Drumpot

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The issue isn't thinking that Liverpool are deserved winners. The issue is it sets precedent for future years.

Where do you draw the line? Liverpool need 2 games to win. What if it was 3/4/5? Why would it be acceptable 1 year and not another?

The worst thing they can do is afford a title to a team that didn't fulfil the fixtures imo.

As with every decision made in the EPL, it will come down to money in the end. Which is likely to yield a better financial outcome for the league. A voided season or having Liverpool as champions.

I personally think having such a popular team as Liverpool as champions (regardless of my alliegance they are a superb team to watch and their football can be breathtaking) might be a more financially rewarding outcome for the league regardless of fixtures being completed or not. I know this doesnt factor in all the other variables, but money always talks in this league.

Blazer

rgace wrote: »

Why not finish the season in 2021 then?

We will have to wait and see when football can restart again i suppose but I believe Liverpool will be awarded the title either way, professional teams are not as petty as fans and can accept being beaten by the better team.

Of course they deserve it and I hope they get it.
But this is the biggest crisis to hit the planet since WW2 according to recent media sites. Unless of course you lived in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Syrai or any other ****fest of human bigotry which most of us ignore.

Personally I think they should immediately declare the season over and Liverpool as winners. No relegation from any of the other leagues or indeed promotion.
But each team in first place should be recognized as the winners of their respective leagues.
I know there's the whole financial implications with sky and sponsors but that's something that can be reworked out over a few seasons etc.

TitianGerm

Blazer wrote: »

Of course they deserve it and I hope they get it.
But this is the biggest crisis to hit the planet since WW2 according to recent media sites. Unless of course you lived in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Syrai or any other ****fest of human bigotry which most of us ignore.

Personally I think they should immediately declare the season over and Liverpool as winners. No relegation from any of the other leagues or indeed promotion.
But each team in first place should be recognized as the winners of their respective leagues.
I know there's the whole financial implications with sky and sponsors but that's something that can be reworked out over a few seasons etc.

I think Leeds would prefer to get the PL money than be crowned winners and told to stay put. They've invested heavily and you'd have to wonder what will happen if they don't go up.

dogbert27

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The issue isn't thinking that Liverpool are deserved winners. The issue is it sets precedent for future years.

Where do you draw the line? Liverpool need 2 games to win. What if it was 3/4/5? Why would it be acceptable 1 year and not another?

The worst thing they can do is afford a title to a team that didn't fulfil the fixtures imo.

That's just what the Belgian FA did yesterday!

Guy:Incognito

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think Leeds would prefer to get the PL money than be crowned winners and told to stay put. They've invested heavily and you'd have to wonder what will happen if they don't go up.

It could well alter the whole future of the club. They could go up, survive , then become a stable PL club. Another season in the Championship could end in them not going up next year and stagnating or worse declining and ending up further down.

You've then the opposite for the teams that would have gone down. They get to reset and have another go at staying up. Players that might have gone to Leeds may end up with one of them, strengthening them.

This is then repeated in each league.


Deciding Villa go down based on the current table isnt fair either, they have a game in hand.

Cork Boy 53

dogbert27 wrote: »

That's just what the Belgian FA did yesterday!

That decision could yet be reversed as UEFA have since warned countries that end their leagues early about CL and EL places for next season assuming there is one.

Rock77

In my opinion it’s ridiculous to award any team any trophy they have not won.

It’s also ridiculous to not finish the season when football does start again.

Liverpool will be deserved winners if the season is completed.

However they will not be deserved winners if they don’t get enough points to win the league but are given the trophy anyway.

TitianGerm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It could well alter the whole future of the club. They could go up, survive , then become a stable PL club. Another season in the Championship could end in them not going up next year and stagnating or worse declining and ending up further down.

You've then the opposite for the teams that would have gone down. They get to reset and have another go at staying up. Players that might have gone to Leeds may end up with one of them, strengthening them.

This is then repeated in each league.


Deciding Villa go down based on the current table isnt fair either, they have a game in hand.

I think Villa had one of the hardest run in of the bottom clubs. Liverpool, United, Wolves, Arsenal, Everton, Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Chelsea.

I honestly couldn't see them winning to many of those games but with West Ham the last day it could have gone to the wire.

Edit: Bournemouth have tough games as well so one of them is very likely to drop down. Watford have a few winnable games and could well stay up.

Rock77

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think Villa had one of the hardest run in of the bottom clubs. Liverpool, United, Wolves, Arsenal, Everton, Palace, Newcastle, West Ham and Chelsea.

I honestly couldn't see them winning to many of those games but with West Ham the last day it could have gone to the wire.

Edit: Bournemouth have tough games as well so one of them is very likely to drop down. Watford have a few winnable games and could well stay up.

Could you see Watford beating Liverpool 3-0 a while back? The only thing that matters about the fixture is it’s actually played. You can’t relegate a team based on their position when they have games left and could save themselves.. crazy stuff...

TitianGerm

Rock77 wrote: »

Could you see Watford beating Liverpool 3-0 a while back? The only thing that matters about the fixture is it’s actually played. You can’t relegate a team based on their position when they have games left and could save themselves.. crazy stuff...

Villa are conceding to many goals. It's hard to pick up points when you average two goals a game against you. Smith hasn't even tried to change anything by the looks of it so it won't get any better.

Edit: I'm not saying finish as things are.

Rock77

TitianGerm wrote: »

Villa are conceding to many goals. It's hard to pick up points when you average two goals a game against you. Smith hasn't even tried to change anything by the looks of it so it won't get any better.

Edit: I'm not saying finish as things are.

I don’t disagree with your view on Villa I was just using the first part of your post to get my point across that finishing things as they are is ridiculous.

Hopefully football resumes in the near future and the season gets finished..

1o059k7ewrqj3n

BBC wrote:

European governing body Uefa has written a joint letter with the European Clubs' Association and the European Leagues urging domestic bodies not to abandon their competitions.

Leagues across Europe have been told that ending competitions early could result in them forfeiting Champions League and Europa League places.

Full article here: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52140204

Don't finish your league you forfeit European football the season after.

smelly sock

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Full article here: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52140204

Don't finish your league you forfeit European football the season after.

It might be the lesser of two evils tbh. Either finish this season and forget about having a 20/21 season at this point. I can't see them sacrificing a full season. The amount of clubs affected by that far outnumbers the clubs affected by no European football.

It's really hard to see any football being played this summer. Especially considering the Liverpool v Atleti has been linked with a spike in cases.

smelly sock

Rock77 wrote: »

Could you see Watford beating Liverpool 3-0 a while back? The only thing that matters about the fixture is it’s actually played. You can’t relegate a team based on their position when they have games left and could save themselves.. crazy stuff...

Exactly the ramifications of a decision to award trophies / relegate teams and allow team into Europe based on current standing will have to much of an impact on lower divisions especially. The longer this Covid thing goes on I think we need to accept a voiding of the 19/20 season.

irelandrover

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Full article here: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52140204

Don't finish your league you forfeit European football the season after.

Could is an important word. There is no way UEFA cut any of Spain, England, Germany or Italy out of European competitions.

citytillidie

smelly sock wrote: »

Exactly the ramifications of a decision to award trophies / relegate teams and allow team into Europe based on current standing will have to much of an impact on lower divisions especially. The longer this Covid thing goes on I think we need to accept a voiding of the 19/20 season.

Why void it ? What if you cant start football until next Jan / Feb are you going to play a short 20/21 season so players will be ready for the Euros?

ricero

I just find it bizzare that people give preferance to a league season that hasn't even started and will more than likely not start in August to a season that is 75% finished and can effect the longterm future of many many clubs.

Its as if they have an other agenda or something....

smelly sock

ricero wrote: »

I just find it bizzare that people give preferance to a league season that hasn't even started and will more than likely not start in August to a season that is 75% finished and can effect the longterm future of many many clubs.

Its as if they have an other agenda or something....

I think there are agendas on every side tbh. People who want the season finished have obvious agendas too.

Clubs and fans should be prepared to accept the moral victories for this season and be happy. This is unprecedented and it's unfortunate.

eagle eye

Things could be a lot different by time football returns. Aston Villa, who can't afford key injuries, lost two critical players in McGinn and Wesley who could both be back by the time football resumes. Spurs could have a bunch of players back too.
Then you have the question of fitness with certain players who don't do well when there's no football.
We could see some crazy results when football returns.

Great news for PL in case it was missed from the Coronavirus thread.

Uefa, Europe’s football leagues and top clubs have emphasised their determination to complete the 2019-20 season despite the coronavirus shutdown, with Uefa saying it may not accept clubs into next season’s Champions League if they have not qualified in the normal way.

In a joint letter sent on Thursday night to Europe’s national FAs, leagues and top-division clubs, the Uefa president, Aleksander Ceferin, the chairman of the European Club Association, Andrea Agnelli, and Lars-Christer Olsson, the president of European Leagues, maintained that remaining club matches in national leagues and the Champions and Europa Leagues could be completed by playing into July and August. However they acknowledged the scale of the crisis means they do not expect to have a clear idea of how that may be done until mid-May at the earliest.

As reported by the Guardian before Uefa’s video conference with national FAs on Wednesday, the football authorities in England and across Europe are increasingly accepting that starting to play again by June is optimistic, a revision of their initial hope the season could be finished by 30 June.

In the letter, Ceferin, Agnelli and Olsson wrote: “We are confident that football can restart in the months to come – with conditions that will be dictated by public authorities – and believe that any decision of abandoning domestic competitions is, at this stage, premature and not justified.

“Since participation in Uefa club competitions is determined by the sporting result achieved at the end of a full domestic competition, a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfilment of such condition. Uefa reserves the right to assess the entitlement of clubs to be admitted to the 2020-21 Uefa club competitions, in accordance with the relevant applicable competition regulations.”

The joint letter was sent after the Belgian league management board on Thursday became the first in major European football competition to recommend scrapping efforts to finish the season, saying it will award its championship to Club Brugge who are 15 points ahead of second-placed Gent. The league’s clubs will now have to seriously think about whether to accept that recommendation given the collective statement of intent by Uefa, the ECA and EL.

The letter acknowledged the “health crisis caused by the spread of Covid-19 has no precedents in our society” but, referring to the decision to allow more time for club competitions to run into the summer by postponing the summer’s European Championship, said: “European football has nonetheless been capable of reacting as one united family. The common standpoint struck on 17 March by Uefa, the ECA and EL was that every effort had to be made in order to allow all domestic and European competitions to be concluded in compliance with their formats.”

Referring to the working group set up by Uefa to consider how matches could be completed, the letter noted the idea of trying to finish national leagues first, then play the remaining Champions League and Europa League ties after that. The work is “now focusing on scenarios encompassing the months of July and August”, the letter said.

“Closely following the development of the current situation, the calendar working group will indicate as soon as possible, and ideally by mid-May, which of the plans can be enacted for the completion of the season without leaving anyone behind. Stopping competitions should really be the last resort after acknowledging that no calendar alternative would allow to conclude the season.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ematurely-uefa

1o059k7ewrqj3n

irelandrover wrote: »

Could is an important word. There is no way UEFA cut any of Spain, England, Germany or Italy out of European competitions.

UEFA banned English teams in the 80s, so there is a precedent of removing/preventing/banning teams from entry to European competitions, there are regulations in place that must be adhered to.

Fitz*

citytillidie wrote: »

Why void it ? What if you cant start football until next Jan / Feb are you going to play a short 20/21 season so players will be ready for the Euros?

It's a question that gets so often, but never answered.

I haven't seen a single good argument behind voiding a season yet. Not even any good reason. Just loads of people throwing the words out there.

Voiding a season won't save lives either.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

It's a question that gets so often, but never answered.

I haven't seen a single good argument behind voiding a season yet. Not even any good reason. Just loads of people throwing the words out there.

Voiding a season won't save lives either.

Relegation teams and Spurs. Doesn't benefit anyone else.

Cork Boy 53

6 wrote: »

Relegation teams and Spurs. Doesn't benefit anyone else.

Obviously it benefits the anti Liverpool brigade too. I think that this season will be completed at some point even if it`s not until 2021.

smelly sock

FitzShane wrote: »

It's a question that gets so often, but never answered.

I haven't seen a single good argument behind voiding a season yet. Not even any good reason. Just loads of people throwing the words out there.

Voiding a season won't save lives either.

There are good arguments for voiding. Just none that you agree with.

If the PL is finished then all divisions in England should be finished also. I can't see that happening though with the amount of games left to be played. Say this drags on into September do you still think all divisions should be finished disrupting the 20/21 season?

The European competitions could possible be cancelled next season and that would remove that headache.

smelly sock

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It benefits the anti Liverpool brigade too.

Finishing the season thus interfering with the 20/21 season benefits the Pro Liverpool bridge too.

Cork Boy 53

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It benefits the anti Liverpool brigade too.

Minority on social media. They don't represent views of their respective clubs. If you hate one club over supporting your own you were never a real supporter anyway.

smelly sock

eagle eye wrote: »

Things could be a lot different by time football returns. Aston Villa, who can't afford key injuries, lost two critical players in McGinn and Wesley who could both be back by the time football resumes. Spurs could have a bunch of players back too.
Then you have the question of fitness with certain players who don't do well when there's no football.
We could see some crazy results when football returns.

This. Rather than without any preparation just running things off straight away teams should be allowed a pre season. Voiding this season would possibly allow that.

It's a tough pill to swallow if you are a team on the cusp of promotion but these are extraordinary times.

Fitz*

smelly sock wrote: »

There are good arguments for voiding. Just none that you agree with.

If the PL is finished then all divisions in England should be finished also. I can't see that happening though with the amount of games left to be played. Say this drags on into September do you still think all divisions should be finished disrupting the 20/21 season?

The European competitions could possible be cancelled next season and that would remove that headache.

So are you going to share these good arguments or just talk of them?
What benefits come from voiding a season that is 75% complete?

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

Shouldn't the England captain Harry Kane be the one doing this instead of talking about voiding leagues that will cost hundreds if not thousands of people their jobs at clubs throughout English football.

https://twitter.com/MelissaReddy_/status/1246058760658968581?s=20

8-10

Rock77 wrote: »

In my opinion it’s ridiculous to award any team any trophy they have not won.

It’s also ridiculous to not finish the season when football does start again.

Liverpool will be deserved winners if the season is completed.

However they will not be deserved winners if they don’t get enough points to win the league but are given the trophy anyway.

If the league is shortened they would have enough points. Kind of like the Duckworth-Lewis method

smelly sock

FitzShane wrote: »

So are you going to share these good arguments or just talk of them?
What benefits come from voiding a season that is 75% complete?

What benefits would come from having another season disrupted by this? ie the 20/21 season?

So instead of having 1 season disrupted you'd have two.

8-10

smelly sock wrote: »

What benefits would come from having another season disrupted by this? ie the 20/21 season?

So instead of having 1 season disrupted you'd have two.

20/21 will only avoid disruption if teams are in pre-season as usual from end of June.

I'd say it's optimistic to think 20/21 doesn't get disrupted at this stage regardless of what happens to the end of this season.

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

What benefits would come from having another season disrupted by this? ie the 20/21 season?

So instead of having 1 season disrupted you'd have two.

How can you be so sure next season won't be disrupted regardless?

Collie D

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Obviously it benefits the anti Liverpool brigade too. I think that this season will be completed at some point even if it`s not until 2021.

I’m very much anti Liverpool but I would prefer season to be finished before starting a new one. I don’t believe I’m in a minority either.

Obviously I’d have a good laugh if they were denied the title.

My own preferences for what it’s worth in order. A and B could be interchangeable.

A. Finish season
B. Resume season and finish at whatever point all mathematical possibilities are certain
C. Call season now. Liverpool get title, bottom three go down
D. Void

smelly sock

6 wrote: »

How can you be so sure next season won't be disrupted regardless?

The only thing we can be sure of is if they decide to finish this season then 20/21 will be disrupted.

Cork Boy 53

smelly sock wrote: »

What benefits would come from having another season disrupted by this? ie the 20/21 season?

So instead of having 1 season disrupted you'd have two.

If there is another outbreak of the virus next autumn/winter and a vaccine hasn't been developed by then the 2020/21 season would be suspended anyway. Surely it makes more sense to complete one season rather than have two with uncompleted seasons.

joeguevara

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

Shouldn't the England captain Harry Kane be the one doing this instead of talking about voiding leagues that will cost hundreds if not thousands of people their jobs at clubs throughout English football.

https://twitter.com/MelissaReddy_/status/1246058760658968581?s=20

How do you know he isn’t donating privately himself but without the fanfare that some players Want. Also England captain is football only. Nothing to do with anything else. Anyway, do Liverpool supporters now suddenly like Henderson after subjecting him to years of vitriol?

8-10

smelly sock wrote: »

The only thing we can be sure of is if they decide to finish this season then 20/21 will be disrupted.

But the point is you don't need to make the decision to finish it or void today....you can wait to understand what the impact on 20/21 season is and what the timing is and bring that into your decision to resume or not

There is no rush to void anything now as there's no guarantee of any future soccer right now

citytillidie

smelly sock wrote: »

There are good arguments for voiding. Just none that you agree with.

If the PL is finished then all divisions in England should be finished also. I can't see that happening though with the amount of games left to be played. Say this drags on into September do you still think all divisions should be finished disrupting the 20/21 season?

The European competitions could possible be cancelled next season and that would remove that headache.

Season 20/21 is more than likely to be disrupted by the way it currently looks so why ruin 2 seasons

8-10

joeguevara wrote: »

Anyway, do Liverpool supporters now suddenly like Henderson after subjecting him to years of vitriol?

Are you suggesting Liverpool supporters don't like Jordan Henderson right now?

He's one of the most popular players at the club. I'm surprised you're asking this.

citytillidie

joeguevara wrote: »

How do you know he isn’t donating privately himself but without the fanfare that some players Want. Also England captain is football only. Nothing to do with anything else. Anyway, do Liverpool supporters now suddenly like Henderson after subjecting him to years of vitriol?

Oh dear, i think you need to go for a walk or let go of your hate for Liverpool and Liverpool fans. Liverpool fans way back in 2013/14 season were cursing Henderson was sent off missing 3 games of the final 4 that season as he was important to the midfield that season.

He has grown into an important part of the team over that time, yes when he joined people did not like him but he proved his worth over time.

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

How do you know he isn’t donating privately himself but without the fanfare that some players Want. Also England captain is football only. Nothing to do with anything else. Anyway, do Liverpool supporters now suddenly like Henderson after subjecting him to years of vitriol?

Everyone likes trophy lifting captains :cool:

To get to that stage Harry Kane needs to move away from Spurs. Owes them nothing at this stage.

joeguevara

citytillidie wrote: »

Oh dear, i think you need to go for a walk or let go of your hate for Liverpool and Liverpool fans. Liverpool fans way back in 2013/14 season were cursing Henderson was sent off missing 3 games of the final 4 that season as he was important to the midfield that season.

He has grown into an important part of the team over that time, yes when he joined people did not like him but he proved his worth over time.

I like Liverpool and their fans. Have a look at my posting history. Build a bridge bud.

Fitz*

Nothing really new in terms of when the PL will resume play, which is expected. But it will resume play when it is safe to do so.

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/1246079673727057920?s=19

Rock77

8-10 wrote: »

If the league is shortened they would have enough points. Kind of like the Duckworth-Lewis method

So basically change the rules half way through a competition so a certain team can win. Look I know Liverpool have waited a long time to win the league but they have to win it, it won’t be handed to them.

Liverpool fans shouldn’t want it handed to them, they are miles better than everyone.

citytillidie

£125M going from the PL to the EFL and National Leagues to help teams