General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Just reading on BBC there that the deaths reported in the UK today may be from weeks ago, even as far back as March. Looks like hospital deaths peaked on April 8th @ 800 and have steadily fallen to 600 in latest figures.

So the downward trending is definately a good thing for UK in general, and for the future of sport in the short to medium term.

Experts believe this period could well be when virus deaths peaked (April 8th)

They point to a separate analysis by NHS England which showed since 8 April the number of deaths in hospitals have been falling when you look at the date of death.

The daily figures presented by government just show when hospital deaths are announced - there is often a delay in recording and reporting which masks when a drop in deaths starts happening.

"On Tuesday 823 new deaths were announced, but most of these happened in the previous days and weeks. Some even date back to March"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52361519

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's the Tuesday trend again. Cases go down on Sunday and Monday due to lower reporting over the weekend and then the shortfall gets added to Tuesdays numbers. It's been happening for weeks.

Was hoping the lower figures would at least hold this time round

Sadly not with that jump

There is indication they are undereporting the numbers too. I never understand why governments chose to do this. Just be outright and honest with the numbers.

citytillidie

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ot but I thought early on thered be a rush of eSports stuff organised by sky or the like to get something on television. As close to live sport as there can be and if its the players doing it, therell be interest. There's been a couple of f1 races but precious little else. Even the FIFA one over the last few days wasn't shown live on sky sports I don't think, possibly the semi and final.

Maybe simply a case of there are esports rights that are out there, these new ones don't have that kind of system hence they are not being shown on Sky, as i do think BT had the last full Fifa epsorts

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

Was hoping the lower figures would at least hold this time round

Sadly not with that jump

There is indication they are undereporting the numbers too. I never understand why governments chose to do this. Just be outright and honest with the numbers.

Are they not the same as us where these actual deaths could have happened anytime this month. Not you personally but why is everyone so quick to knock the uk for under reporting but making an example of germany as being the model to follow when they have vastly underreported deaths from the start.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Are they not the same as us where these actual deaths could have happened anytime this month. Not you personally but why is everyone so quick to knock the uk for under reporting but making an example of germany as being the model to follow when they have vastly underreported deaths from the start.

BBC say UK are potentially over reporting numbers. I linked the story previous page.

Mitch Connor

6 wrote: »

BBC say UK are potentially over reporting numbers. I linked the story previous page.

If the way they have been reporting is consistently inaccurate - but consistent in the way it is being done, then the numbers being reported would remain in line, though out of date.

At the same time, the ONS is saying deaths could be 40% higher.

So while they way they are reporting could be pointed at as over-reporting, at the same time it could be reported as massively under-reporting.

We simply don't know, but guidance will only be provided based on the reported numbers.

gimli2112

Deleted User wrote: »

There is indication they are undereporting the numbers too. I never understand why governments chose to do this. Just be outright and honest with the numbers.

It's kind of like how they handle budgets. The government will leak cigarettes are going up a fiver and €2 will be added to a pint. People our outraged, pitchforks sharpened but when the real budget comes out people just say "eh, it's not too bad"
Cue a round of back slapping on high

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Are they not the same as us where these actual deaths could have happened anytime this month. Not you personally but why is everyone so quick to knock the uk for under reporting but making an example of germany as being the model to follow when they have vastly underreported deaths from the start.

I've no idea what reports you are referencing.

I'm only trying to reference the potential of football returning. There was discussions of germany potentially doing so.

I'm not saying they are a model. But there government as one example have a handle of this situation way better than the UK have IMO.

Especially considering the UK went with some stupid mass infection plan and then panicked and went the complete opposite way when they realised it was a stupid decision in the first place.

gimli2112

I'm just saying governments tend to be liberal with the truth when delivering bad news, in general.'I don't understand why they are not counting deaths in nursing homes, the only logic is to artificially keep the numbers lower.

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

I'm just saying governments tend to be liberal with the truth when delivering bad news, in general.'I don't understand why they are not counting deaths in nursing homes, the only logic is to artificially keep the numbers lower.

I credit the Irish government for doing that from the beginning.
What gives a government the right to try and differentiate a death.
Someone lost a loved one.
If its in a nursing home or not it should not matter.
Report it plain and simple.
It's highly disrespectful IMO

Dave0301

niallo27 wrote: »

Are they not the same as us where these actual deaths could have happened anytime this month. Not you personally but why is everyone so quick to knock the uk for under reporting but making an example of germany as being the model to follow when they have vastly underreported deaths from the start.

Any evidence or links to this, as I can't find any. Would be very poor form if that was the case as they plan a possible return of football.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no idea what reports you are referencing.

I'm only trying to reference the potential of football returning. There was discussions of germany potentially doing so.

I'm not saying they are a model. But there government as one example have a handle of this situation way better than the UK have IMO.

Especially considering the UK went with some stupid mass infection plan and then panicked and went the complete opposite way when they realised it was a stupid decision in the first place.

I was talking more in general where germany was getting a lot of praise, nothing you had posted personally.

davemckenna25

FitzShane wrote: »

Pretty much.

I think they key point from today was that UEFA still want all the leagues to finish, but they will now listen to special requests to finish up the leagues early, in special circumstances. It doesn't mean that they will be granted though, just that UEFA will listen.

According to Dale Johnson, null & void is not an option for major leagues.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1252601015817441280

So going by this, the Premier League is either getting played behind closed doors, or else maybe a small chance of the league finishing now with current positions as end of season positions.

I thought that only a short while ago they were insisting that all leagues would be finished, no exceptions.

Now they say that some might be allowed not to finish out the season and maybe called as they now stand.

I wonder might they change again in a few weeks.

niallo27

Dave0301 wrote: »

Any evidence or links to this, as I can't find any. Would be very poor form if that was the case as they plan a possible return of football.

Maybe underreporting is wrong but it makes no sense their death rate is so much lower than countries such as South Korea and Singapore despite their borders with countries that have been hit incredibly hard.

Fitz*

davemckenna25 wrote: »

I thought that only a short while ago they were insisting that all leagues would be finished, no exceptions.

Now they say that some might be allowed not to finish out the season and maybe called as they now stand.

I wonder might they change again in a few weeks.

As did I.

But, the direction is till to finish playing the leagues. I guess, whether any leagues are actually allowed to finish early is another thing. Maybe it's a fall back option for those that are really stuck.

I see that Serie A clubs today agreed to play out their season, once the government gives the green light.

Maybe this direction from UEFA is to cover themselves in case any local governments do not allow football to be played. A 'finish your league, unless directed not to' type directive.

Edit: Serie A, not La Liga.

RasTa

https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1252649529071079428?s=19

Mitch Connor

RasTa wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1252649529071079428?s=19

Don't see why it should inevitably lead to a voiding.

http://www.football-oranje.com/eredivisie-season-finished-no-football-in-the-netherlands-until-september/

The Dutch government has ruled out any football in Holland until 1 September

"Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte held a press conference on Tuesday evening and announced that the banning of all licensed events had been extended to September 1st. They had previously been banned until June 1st.

This means it is almost certainly now impossible for the KNVB to finish the Eredivisie or Keueken Kampioen Divisie seasons. The games cannot be played without fans, as it will still require police to be present.

The mayors of major cities had already stated their intentions to stop any football being played again before September, but it has now been confirmed by the government.

The KNVB will now have to assess the situation and make a statement on what that means for the club’s."

Chuck Noland

As has been spoken about at length behind closed could still mean 200+ staff and resources from areas that need them need more. Can’t see any country’s been in a position to facilitate that in the near future.

Drumpot

Chuck Noland wrote: »

As has been spoken about at length behind closed could still mean 200+ staff and resources from areas that need them need more. Can’t see any country’s been in a position to facilitate that in the near future.

I’ve heard that but surely they could in theory play games on training pitches or smaller indoor arenas with a skeleton staff? Many people play soccer matches with not even a coach, let alone a physio so it’s possible. I know this is professional football but at the end of the day it’s a soccer game between 22 men. With subs that’s maybe 34 people. Couple of coaches you could keep it at max 50. How much security would you need , depending on where you play the games you may not need many.

I don’t know if that works but it’s looking more and more likely that they won’t be able to go back to normal anytime soon, especially given how badly the UK has handled things. So desperate times may lead to desperate solutions. There may also be an external pressure with Bundesliga or rival leagues getting one over on EPL so I wouldn’t be surprised if they do everything they can to get some focus or spotlight on the league.

niallo27

Chuck Noland wrote: »

As has been spoken about at length behind closed could still mean 200+ staff and resources from areas that need them need more. Can’t see any country’s been in a position to facilitate that in the near future.

What areas would need the staff and resources more.

CSF

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Don't see why it should inevitably lead to a voiding.

The big challenge would be to find a way to sync in for European competitions if the other countries finish up earlier behind closed doors.

To be honest, the scheduling of that is gonna be a huge challenge with so many countries in different situations

Mitch Connor

niallo27 wrote: »

What areas would need the staff and resources more.

Right now, for example, policing and medical professionals could be of more use elsewhere.

PL matches need an ambulance on site for the teams/players. Don't know if that is possible at the moment (or moral).

In June? Who knows.

~Rebel~

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe underreporting is wrong but it makes no sense their death rate is so much lower than countries such as South Korea and Singapore despite their borders with countries that have been hit incredibly hard.

Germany's death rate is 59 per million. South Korea's is 5. Singapore's is 2.

I haven't seen any metric by which Germany's rate of anything is lower than S. Korea or Singapore to be honest...

niallo27

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Right now, for example, policing and medical professionals could be of more use elsewhere.

PL matches need an ambulance on site for the teams/players. Don't know if that is possible at the moment (or moral).

In June? Who knows.

What policing would they need, you could class it as entertainment. There is loads of live shows happening all over the uk and ireland which are being run and nobody asks any questions. It would certainly be a morale boost for the country

niallo27

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Germany's death rate is 59 per million. South Korea's is 5. Singapore's is 2.

I haven't seen any metric by which Germany's rate of anything is lower than S. Korea or Singapore to be honest...

I was going off early figures. I'm wrong here.

Shanotheslayer

Drumpot wrote: »

I’ve heard that but surely they could in theory play games on training pitches or smaller indoor arenas with a skeleton staff? Many people play soccer matches with not even a coach, let alone a physio so it’s possible. I know this is professional football but at the end of the day it’s a soccer game between 22 men. With subs that’s maybe 34 people. Couple of coaches you could keep it at max 50. How much security would you need , depending on where you play the games you may not need many.

I don’t know if that works but it’s looking more and more likely that they won’t be able to go back to normal anytime soon, especially given how badly the UK has handled things. So desperate times may lead to desperate solutions. There may also be an external pressure with Bundesliga or rival leagues getting one over on EPL so I wouldn’t be surprised if they do everything they can to get some focus or spotlight on the league.

What about TV crew? I assume there's definitely more essential workers in that regard I'm missing.

Of course they'd need security rival fans etc.

Fitz*

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Right now, for example, policing and medical professionals could be of more use elsewhere.

PL matches need an ambulance on site for the teams/players. Don't know if that is possible at the moment (or moral).

In June? Who knows.

The police and ambulance staff at Premier League games are largely for the crowd in attendance, not the footballers. Some police & ambulance staff would be needed for games behind closed doors but you would assume that nowhere near the numbers of a regular game would be needed.

How many ambulances are used for players on any given match day? Not many I would think. Generally they are precautionary. Clubs have their own doctors as it is, and physios and I presume that the majority of these are still working with the clubs and not with the health services.

Stadium announcers, stewards, turnstiles staff, bar staff, media etc all not needed either.

Mitch Connor

niallo27 wrote: »

What policing would they need, you could class it as entertainment. There is loads of live shows happening all over the uk and ireland which are being run and nobody asks any questions. It would certainly be a morale boost for the country

there would need to be a level of policing to ensure fans are not attending the game or turning up outside the stadium in large numbers.

Do you think Liverpool fans aren't turning up at Anfield if Liverpool are about to win the league? Need police to police that and ensure public order.

Mitch Connor

FitzShane wrote: »

The police and ambulance staff at Premier League games are largely for the crowd in attendance, not the footballers. Some police & ambulance staff would be needed for games behind closed doors but you would assume that nowhere near the numbers of a regular game would be needed.

How many ambulances are used for players on any given match day? Not many I would think. Generally they are precautionary. Clubs have their own doctors as it is, and physios and I presume that the majority of these are still working with the clubs and not with the health services.

Stadium announcers, stewards, turnstiles staff, bar staff, media etc all not needed either.

Indeed, the numbers needed would be less. But less is not none. Again, I don't think its an issue now, cause there won't be matches now. But even June/July - its a question that would need to be answered.

Last week there were nearly beatings when the virus was talked about in the Football and Coronavirus thread.

This week, what we see at the moment is somehow fine for General Premier League.

I would like some clarification from mods on what's going on, and if that F+CV thread is going to be opened again. There's hardly space under the rug for it as well it's there?

Drumpot

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

What about TV crew? I assume there's definitely more essential workers in that regard I'm missing.

Of course they'd need security rival fans etc.

Tv crews is an interesting one. How many people could they get by using during games. You try to rotate people as needed. So certain people setup and certain needed during a game.

There’s no fans in or around the grounds so fans shouldn’t be a major issue, certainly not rival fans as most wouldn’t be stupid to travel long distances to stand outside a building (although I know some do). Like I said, desperate times may force them to come up with less then Perfect but better solutions.

Given the money involved and the popularity of the sport I see concessions being made eventually and they will get the green light to start back up. But they may have to do something drastic if they want to squeeze in this seasons games. Doesn’t make sense to write off or delay an entire season for the sake of a quarter of one.

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

Tv crews is an interesting one. How many people could they get by using during games. You try to rotate people as needed. So certain people setup and certain needed during a game.

There’s no fans in or around the grounds so fans shouldn’t be a major issue, certainly not rival fans as most wouldn’t be stupid to travel long distances to stand outside a building (although I know some do). Like I said, desperate times may force them to come up with less then Perfect but better solutions.

Given the money involved and the popularity of the sport I see concessions being made eventually and they will get the green light to start back up. But they may have to do something drastic if they want to squeeze in this seasons games. Doesn’t make sense to write off or delay an entire season for the sake of a quarter of one.

https://twitter.com/MarkOgden_/status/1251460028021780480?s=19

Chuck Noland

Drumpot wrote: »

I’ve heard that but surely they could in theory play games on training pitches or smaller indoor arenas with a skeleton staff? Many people play soccer matches with not even a coach, let alone a physio so it’s possible. I know this is professional football but at the end of the day it’s a soccer game between 22 men. With subs that’s maybe 34 people. Couple of coaches you could keep it at max 50. How much security would you need , depending on where you play the games you may not need many.

I don’t know if that works but it’s looking more and more likely that they won’t be able to go back to normal anytime soon, especially given how badly the UK has handled things. So desperate times may lead to desperate solutions. There may also be an external pressure with Bundesliga or rival leagues getting one over on EPL so I wouldn’t be surprised if they do everything they can to get some focus or spotlight on the league.

256 staff for premier league behind closed doors

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-club-calculates-number-21896804.amp

~Rebel~

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

What about TV crew? I assume there's definitely more essential workers in that regard I'm missing.

I've been reading through the guidelines of film/tv/commercial production coming back on line over the next few months. There's likely a lot of crossover there, in that you have staff behind the camera, and those in front of the camera. Those behind the camera can excercise a certain amount of control over infection, through distancing, and masks etc, while those in front of the camera cannot.

The bulk of it was that you keep areas entirely separate for those in front of the camera, which are totally inaccessible to those behind the camera. Those in front are at greatest risk since they can't wear masks, and may have to be in close contact with each other depending on the scene, so they're just always kept apart from everyone else. (actors in the case of production, players in the case of B-C-D).

You accept that cases may arise amongst the crew, but you mitigate against the chances of further infection (if both the carrier and recipient are wearing masks and regularly wash hands it lowers chances of infection to 1.5% down from 70% if neither are), and also have others on hold able to come and fill in at short notice.

In addition, everyone works in isolated groups - so the camera guys only interact with the other camera guys, stewards only with other stewards etc, with as much direction and coordination as possible done through radio.

As long as you have the space, it seems doable by compartmentalizing everything, and by treating the players and coaches as precious cargo to be isolated from everything else going on at all times. The support staff would likely also do all their work in advance where possible, leaving the players to arrive in their own cars, to come in through a separate entrance, go straight to a sterilized changing room, and then straight out onto the field, without any interaction beyond their teammates.

The tricky part of course is just the players staying isolated and clear themselves. Big difference between 22 lads running area inhaling each others air, and a few actors in a scene.

How are Germany hoping to get around the amount of staff required?

Mitch Connor

i don't see the issue with the staff numbers behind closed doors.

There will be loads of offices or factories etc that return to work in the next month, maybe two, that would have numbers like that.

The issue I can see being the problem is policing of supporters who may not stay away from the ground.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i don't see the issue with the staff numbers behind closed doors.

There will be loads of offices or factories etc that return to work in the next month, maybe two, that would have numbers like that.

The issue I can see being the problem is policing of supporters who may not stay away from the ground.

Agreed. If it was right now fair enough, but in 2/3 months it should be ok. I'd expect most businesses will be back running then.

(Essential) companies already running with quadruple that number in Ireland, and have been for the past month. It can be done, and certainly can be done in a few months.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MarkOgden_/status/1251460028021780480?s=19

Chuck Noland wrote: »

256 staff for premier league behind closed doors

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-club-calculates-number-21896804.amp

That’s presuming they have to play games in those big grounds. Stadiums are not a necessity if you don’t have people attending. I’m not saying they still won’t need a fair few personnel but there are ways to reduce the amount required per game. Even having something like one venue in London that may host several games in a row on the same day.

Maybe because of the product they won’t want to move away from grounds. Suppose they can also watch Bundesliga and see how that plays out. I don’t see them wanting to have to play games from this season anytime after August so if they can’t fully open up grounds for whatever reason they may have to consider smaller venues if that’s what it will take to get the green light.

~Rebel~

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i don't see the issue with the staff numbers behind closed doors.

There will be loads of offices or factories etc that return to work in the next month, maybe two, that would have numbers like that.

The issue I can see being the problem is policing of supporters who may not stay away from the ground.

Think club's will have a big part to play in this. They have to come out very hard and very strong with their messaging.

Ideally, would be great if the remaining matches were just done across a few neutral venues with multiple games played in each per day. Choose stadiums that are a bit of a pain in the hole to gather at, where you need to drive, and where authorities could have roadblocks set up well clear of the stadium.

Cork Boy 53

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i don't see the issue with the staff numbers behind closed doors.

There will be loads of offices or factories etc that return to work in the next month, maybe two, that would have numbers like that.

The issue I can see being the problem is policing of supporters who may not stay away from the ground.

Set up cordons that stop them getting anywhere near the grounds. I mean not just outside the stadiums but several km away.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s presuming they have to play games in those big grounds. Stadiums are not a necessity if you don’t have people attending. I’m not saying they still won’t need a fair few personnel but there are ways to reduce the amount required per game. Even having something like one venue in London that may host several games in a row on the same day.

Maybe because of the product they won’t want to move away from grounds. Suppose they can also watch Bundesliga and see how that plays out. I don’t see them wanting to have to play games from this season anytime after August so if they can’t fully open up grounds for whatever reason they may have to consider smaller venues if that’s what it will take to get the green light.

I had thought that they should possibly use different stadiums (and a lower amount) to make things easier, but I would guess the stadium sponsorship deals, including advertising hordings and the like, would be a potential issue there as well.

Mitch Connor

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Set up cordons that stop them getting anywhere near the grounds. I mean not just outside the stadiums but several km away.

and those cordens are manned by police.

And the further away from the stadium they are placed the larger the area you are covering.

I do think it is something that will be solved, because I do think football will return behind closed doors, but it will need to be solved in a way that is both practical and not seen to be immoral or over the top for 'just a game'

Guy:Incognito

200 people in a football stadium could go a whole day and not be within sight of each if they wanted, never mind within 2m.

Building sites and the like will have to open and people will have to go back to work. Football behind closed doors is no different to any other industry reopening and operating under restricted circumstances.

davemckenna25

Do they not need to use grounds that are setup for VAR and have goal line technology.
I don't think that this facility is available at training grounds so this would mean that they need to use the stadiums.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I had thought that they should possibly use different stadiums (and a lower amount) to make things easier, but I would guess the stadium sponsorship deals, including advertising hordings and the like, would be a potential issue there as well.

It’s mad that there’s so many variables they have to consider. It’s a shame cause there’s surely more practical solutions that won’t be considered for this and other reasons that are not necessarily because they can’t be done.

I had a completely mad pie in the sky idea that won’t happen but would be fun. If there was someway to have some sort of camp (like olympics) where players and their families and all required staff etc can be sort of cordoned off. Have a couple of small stadiums or pitches within that radius and basically have all league games Finished within 24 -36 days, a feast of football. Unrealistic, I know but sure all we have is time to think sh*t up....

Cork Boy 53

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Think club's will have a big part to play in this. They have to come out very hard and very strong with their messaging.

Ideally, would be great if the remaining matches were just done across a few neutral venues with multiple games played in each per day. Choose stadiums that are a bit of a pain in the hole to gather at, where you need to drive, and where authorities could have roadblocks set up well clear of the stadium.

Which ones would you suggest?

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and those cordens are manned by police.

And the further away from the stadium they are placed the larger the area you are covering.

I do think it is something that will be solved, because I do think football will return behind closed doors, but it will need to be solved in a way that is both practical and not seen to be immoral or over the top for 'just a game'

Just thinking of old Trafford , that would be a Nightmare. Can’t imagine how they would man that. And there are loads of estates where you can walk to the ground from loads of directions. I’d imagine plenty of grounds would be similar.

Guy:Incognito

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ideally, would be great if the remaining matches were just done across a few neutral venues with multiple games played in each per day. Choose stadiums that are a bit of a pain in the hole to gather at, where you need to drive, and where authorities could have roadblocks set up well clear of the stadium.

This isnt just playing out the rest of this season though. Next season wont have stadiums full of fans if it kicks off on time.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This isnt just playing out the rest of this season though. Next season wont have stadiums full of fans if it kicks off on time.

Finishing this season will be good trial for next.