General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Drumpot

6 wrote: »

Finishing this season will be good trial for next.

There’s most likely going to be a time limit to finishing this season for numerous reasons. At a certain point, when I don’t know, it would make sense to void or just call this season as teams are placed in the league.

Chuck Noland

Neutral venues?
West ham play Villa in the final game of the season. Could be a relegation decider. Does anyone really think West Ham will agree to forgoing home advantage you get the match played? I can’t see it happening and that’s just 1 fixture out of the 92 remaining that would all need to agree.

Guy:Incognito

Drumpot wrote: »

At a certain point, when I don’t know, it would make sense to void or call this season as teams are placed in the league.

Villa might not agree.

Collie D

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Neutral venues?
West ham play Villa in the final game of the season. Could be a relegation decider. Does anyone really think West Ham will agree to forgoing home advantage you get the match played? I can’t see it happening and that’s just 1 fixture out of the 92 remaining that would all need to agree.

May not necessarily be the last game of the season. There could be logistical reasons for not sticking to the original order of games.

Cork Boy 53

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s mad that there’s so many variables they have to consider. It’s a shame cause there’s surely more practical solutions that won’t be considered for this and other reasons that are not necessarily because they can’t be done.

I had a completely mad pie in the sky idea that won’t happen but would be fun. If there was someway to have some sort of camp (like olympics) where players and their families and all required staff etc can be sort of cordoned off. Have a couple of small stadiums or pitches within that radius and basically have all league games Finished within 24 -36 days, a feast of football. Unrealistic, I know but sure all we have is time to think sh*t up....

Unfortunately it would take just 1 or 2 people in this camp to contract the virus and then no matter how cordoned off they might have previously been everything has to shutdown completely for at least 2 weeks. As you stated yourself it`s not a realistic idea.

Drumpot

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Neutral venues?
West ham play Villa in the final game of the season. Could be a relegation decider. Does anyone really think West Ham will agree to forgoing home advantage you get the match played? I can’t see it happening and that’s just 1 fixture out of the 92 remaining that would all need to agree.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Villa might not agree.

Teams can disagree all they want but majority will rule. I don’t see one or two teams being able to hold up the entire league. What’s good for the greater good will win out regardless of individual clubs wishes.

I’m not sure how many clubs will want to play the end of this season if it means pushing out finances from a new season. What is the financial cost to pushing out a new league 2-4 months? Suppose it will come down to money.

Mitch Connor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Villa might not agree.

I think there is a decent chance no one gets relegated, if the season doesn't get finished.

Bigger PL next season, with 22 sides. (no promotion via playoff)

Drumpot

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Unfortunately it would take just 1 or 2 people in this camp to contract the virus and then no matter how cordoned off they might have previously been everything has to shutdown completely for at least 2 weeks. As you stated yourself it`s not a realistic idea.

Ah no I knew it wasn’t viable , I’m as fed up as everybody else and want to see some big announcement that none of us considered. It’s just hard to see a workable way they are gonna get football started in their own stadiums anytime over the summer. Maybe sentiments will change and by July we will know more which will make opening up grounds for behind door games but I’m not overly optimistic right now for the UK.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think there is a decent chance no one gets relegated, if the season doesn't get finished.

Bigger PL next season, with 22 sides. (no promotion via playoff)

And then 4 relegated and only 2 up from championship?

Maybe let teams in Europe not enter league cup That season, there’s your potential 4 extra games reduced at least.

Iused2likebusts

Id say a message from klopp, henderson and influential supporters clubs would help in keeping most fans away from gathering at the ground. People are far more aware now of what needs to be done than they were when crowds gathered outside a psg CL game.

Cork Boy 53

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Id say a message from klopp, henderson and influential supporters clubs would help in keeping most fans away from gathering at the ground. People are far more aware now of what needs to be done than they were when crowds gathered outside a psg CL game.

Are you sure about that? What about the Liverpool-Atletico CL match at Anfield which took place after the virus cases in both Italy and Spain had started to spike and yet the ground was still packed to capacity with both sets of fans mingling in the surrounding area before and after the match.

8-10

Liverpool have more away games than home games remaining anyway so better chance of a title win away from Anfield to be honest. I don't think you'd see any big numbers anywhere near the stadium regardless, people have more cop on than that.

Behind closed doors could definitely be an option and I think at some stage it will be the first option when soccer resumes.

8-10

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Are you sure about that? What about the Liverpool-Atletico CL match at Anfield which took place after the virus cases in both Italy and Spain had started to spike and yet the ground was still packed to capacity with both sets of fans mingling in the surrounding area before and after the match.

Wasn't like it is now. Nobody had gloves or masks. The reality hadn't hit home yet and a huge amount of fans would have travelled from other UK cities or countries like Norway, Ireland, USA etc for the game that wouldn't be going again.

The Atletico game seemed safe at the time given that neither UEFA nor the UK government said it wasn't safe and should be allowed go ahead with a capacity crowd.

Easy now with hindsight to say it was a bad decision by the government in particular, but at the time supporters didn't have a full grasp of the dangers.

As for mingling in the surrounding area do you mean around Anfield? The Madrid supporters were escorted to the ground walking as always happens and had to remain in the ground after the final whistle. There were no mass mingling in the surrounding area. There were some who didn't walk to the ground who got buses but this was a small minority

El Gato De Negocios

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Id say a message from klopp, henderson and influential supporters clubs would help in keeping most fans away from gathering at the ground. People are far more aware now of what needs to be done than they were when crowds gathered outside a psg CL game.

Do you honestly believe that a message from anyone would stop fans of any club that hasn't won a league in 30 years from congregating outside the ground if the chance to win the league was there? Complete and utter pie in the sky imo. The English in general have not exactly been a role model when it comes to social distancing so to think that thousands wouldn't be at the ground is naive in the extreme. Safest option is to call the league as is. Award the title to LFC, dont relegate anyone and allow two up from the championship. Sky will have extra games to screen to make up for the lost revenue this season. Scrap next seasons league cup altogether and aim for the 20/21 season to begin around October.

niallo27

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Are you sure about that? What about the Liverpool-Atletico CL match at Anfield which took place after the virus cases in both Italy and Spain had started to spike and yet the ground was still packed to capacity with both sets of fans mingling in the surrounding area before and after the match.

That was before anything had kicked off over here, everything has changed since then.

Iused2likebusts

Statutory Ape wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that a message from anyone would stop fans of any club that hasn't won a league in 30 years from congregating outside the ground if the chance to win the league was there? Complete and utter pie in the sky imo. The English in general have not exactly been a role model when it comes to social distancing so to think that thousands wouldn't be at the ground is naive in the extreme. Safest option is to call the league as is. Award the title to LFC, dont relegate anyone and allow two up from the championship. Sky will have extra games to screen to make up for the lost revenue this season. Scrap next seasons league cup altogether and aim for the 20/21 season to begin around October.

What happens if there is a second wave of the virus in the winter do we just end up voiding the 20/21 season aswell then.
I do think it would be frowned on by the majority of supporters to turn up outside the ground so Id imagine there would be far less outside the ground than you imagine. We are in totally different times to what has gone before and as seen so far with the crisis the majority of people have adapted to what is expected of them.

Mitch Connor

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

What happens if there is a second wave of the virus in the winter do we just end up voiding the 20/21 season aswell then.
I do think it would be frowned on by the majority of supporters to turn up outside the ground so Id imagine there would be far less outside the ground than you imagine. We are in totally different times to what has gone before and as seen so far with the crisis the majority of people have adapted to what is expected of them.

The post you are responding to said nothing about voiding the league.

Mitch Connor

I reckon all games behind closed doors will have to be televised. Great for sky and bt.

Loafing Oaf

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon all games behind closed doors will have to be televised. Great for sky and bt.

Pretty pointless if they weren't televised in some form...just a bunch of lads having a kickabout innit...

Iused2likebusts

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The post you are responding to said nothing about voiding the league.

Is calling the league as is and voiding not the same thing.

Loafing Oaf

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Is calling the league as is and voiding not the same thing.

No, voiding it means scrapping it altogether

Iused2likebusts

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No, voiding it means scrapping it altogether

And whats null and void is that the same as void. Hard to keep up with all the terminology.

El Gato De Negocios

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

And whats null and void is that the same as void. Hard to keep up with all the terminology.

Null and void / voiding are the same thing, basically means the last 8 months of football didnt happen.

citytillidie

Talk there of having TV commentators from all over and such, at the games. All you have to do there is allow other nations to take up an English feed that is broadcast from a central studio, same for other languages in a local studio no need for them to be in the stadium same as a pitch side reporters no need to be at the game, any hosting can also be done off site non need to be at the ground and allows a few games back to back

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon all games behind closed doors will have to be televised. Great for sky and bt.

Great for us

niallo27

It will give a great morale boost to people. If I knew a few matches were on the weekend, I'd be happy out during the week looking forward to them.

Agent Coulson

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1252707079736954889?s=20

Agent Coulson

Richard Keys will be tweeting like a mad thing about stopping the takeover for his paymasters.

Rayne Wooney

Liverpool fans are going to be jumping every potential pitfall and understandably so when the title could be taken away.

No mass gathering when they win the league is laughable though, they will promise the world they won’t leave their houses then after when there is riots in Merseyside they’ll blame the government for allowing the games to go ahead.

I think they could start the league mid July behind closed doors and have it finished by the 3rd week in August, followed by a two week break and then into the new season. There’s 4 or 5 games that’ll have to be squeezed in but it seems the most plausible option at this point.

The question is will the players agree to the above. They complain about the schedule as it is and scrapping the English cups won’t make much difference to PL clubs, and there’s a Euros next summer.

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1252707079736954889?s=20

Blegh... I absolutely hate this takeover and the idea of the Saudi regime getting a foothold in the premiership, butttt I don't agree with broadcasters having this sort of influence. I might agree with beIN on this issue, but what about the next one? It's a very slippery slope to a situation like we saw in the NBA, with Chinese broadcasters boycotting Houston Rockets games because of a single tweet that was critical of China.

Shanotheslayer

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

200 people in a football stadium could go a whole day and not be within sight of each if they wanted, never mind within 2m.

Building sites and the like will have to open and people will have to go back to work. Football behind closed doors is no different to any other industry reopening and operating under restricted circumstances.

Except the footballers touching each other. The same water bottles. The physio. The doors etc. Other than that yeh it's definitely practical!

Guy:Incognito

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Except the footballers touching each other. The same water bottles. The physio. The doors etc. Other than that yeh it's definitely practical!

I'm sure football clubs could afford 1 water bottle for each player .

People are going to be going back to work. Footballers are included in that. It's going to need to be done sooner or later and it'll be behind closed doors, in the beginning anyway, one way or the other.

Unless you reckon football is off for the next 18 months or so?

Arghus

Football will be well, well down the list of things to get going again. Even behind closed doors. Football isn't an essential activity. And the amount of money involved, while significant in it's own right, isn't that big relative to other businesses or sectors of the economy.

People talking about putting dates on it starting up again are speculating hard. No one has any clue how anything will pan out over the next few weeks and months. The sports media and those involved with football keep bandying about dates because it keeps attention on them, helping to save them from complete irrelevance. But, ultimately, they aren't going to call the shots. Questions about public health will determine what happens.

If you look at the UK as a whole they haven't even started putting talk out there about dates for opening up the rest of economy/ regular social life. They're still playing guessing games about the actual rate of infection and deaths. Maybe they're at the peak. Maybe they aren't. Maybe there will be another peak. Maybe a phased re-opening could backfire spectacularly. A whole load of maybes and we don't knows. Football is a long way off.

Adamcp898

One of the biggest issues with resuming football is the message it sends to the public. Other industries can resume (and some have continued through all this) by implementing proper physical distancing and taking appropriate measures to remove the risk to personnel.

But a football match actively encourages contact and other heightened risk factors so from a public health policy point of view would be a terrible idea to allow resume. It’d encourage people that they don’t need to keep doing what they’re doing. How many reports would we hear of “well if x football is allowed to do it why can’t I? from regular people when they’re stopped on the street from going somewhere or doing something.

Agent Coulson

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Blegh... I absolutely hate this takeover and the idea of the Saudi regime getting a foothold in the premiership, butttt I don't agree with broadcasters having this sort of influence. I might agree with beIN on this issue, but what about the next one? It's a very slippery slope to a situation like we saw in the NBA, with Chinese broadcasters boycotting Houston Rockets games because of a single tweet that was critical of China.

The Saudi’s already have a foothold in the Premier League as a Saudi Prince owns Sheff Utd and he is worth about £18B.

niallo27

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Liverpool fans are going to be jumping every potential pitfall and understandably so when the title could be taken away.

No mass gathering when they win the league is laughable though, they will promise the world they won’t leave their houses then after when there is riots in Merseyside they’ll blame the government for allowing the games to go ahead.

I think they could start the league mid July behind closed doors and have it finished by the 3rd week in August, followed by a two week break and then into the new season. There’s 4 or 5 games that’ll have to be squeezed in but it seems the most plausible option at this point.

The question is will the players agree to the above. They complain about the schedule as it is and scrapping the English cups won’t make much difference to PL clubs, and there’s a Euros next summer.

People dieing in the thousands and you still manage to have a go at liverpool fans. Your a different level.

niallo27

Arghus wrote: »

Football will be well, well down the list of things to get going again. Even behind closed doors. Football isn't an essential activity. And the amount of money involved, while significant in it's own right, isn't that big relative to other businesses or sectors of the economy.

People talking about putting dates on it starting up again are speculating hard. No one has any clue how anything will pan out over the next few weeks and months. The sports media and those involved with football keep bandying about dates because it keeps attention on them, helping to save them from complete irrelevance. But, ultimately, they aren't going to call the shots. Questions about public health will determine what happens.

If you look at the UK as a whole they haven't even started putting talk out there about dates for opening up the rest of economy/ regular social life. They're still playing guessing games about the actual rate of infection and deaths. Maybe they're at the peak. Maybe they aren't. Maybe there will be another peak. Maybe a phased re-opening could backfire spectacularly. A whole load of maybes and we don't knows. Football is a long way off.

Would you not argue the late late show or this morning in the uk or other live shows are not essential as well, plus we are talking months down the line here when other non essential services should be open.

The_Kew_Tour

niallo27 wrote: »

People dieing in the thousands and you still manage to have a go at liverpool fans. Your a different level.

Dont you want restrictions lifted?

Mushy

niallo27 wrote: »

Would you not argue the late late show or this morning in the uk or other live shows are not essential as well, plus we are talking months down the line here when other non essential services should be open.

What a terrible analogy. Especially when it is far easier for them to maintain social distancing and dont require frontline staff to carry out their jobs

gstack166

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Blegh... I absolutely hate this takeover and the idea of the Saudi regime getting a foothold in the premiership, butttt I don't agree with broadcasters having this sort of influence. I might agree with beIN on this issue, but what about the next one? It's a very slippery slope to a situation like we saw in the NBA, with Chinese broadcasters boycotting Houston Rockets games because of a single tweet that was critical of China.

Not even in the same sphere that example of the NBA.

When Saudi illegally blockaded Qatar along with their little sisters of Bahrain and UAE, they also blocked Bein Sports (the PL And just about every other sport rights holders for the entire MENA region).

To appease their citizens, they then simply pirated Bein Sports and broadcast it as BeOutQ (for a monthly fee) without paying a penny for the rights.

It would be like Virgin charging for a channel which broadcasts all Sky Sports channels and Sky get nothing for it despite having paid billions for the exclusive rights.

The Premier League & UEFA have tried several times to take BeOutQ to court in KSA. Each time (on 9 separate occasions) the law firms within Saudi have mysteriously dropped out.

This has been going on for over two years, even if it’s the first you’ve heard about it now.

Re the law firms dropping out:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/22/bein-sports-asks-premier-league-to-block-saudi-newcastle-deal-over-piracy


Last July, the Premier League said it had spoken to nine law firms in Saudi Arabia who either refused to act or later recused themselves when asked about pursuing a copyright complaint against beoutQ.

But it's not just the PL trying to sue BeOutQ in Saudi:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/16/sports/fifa-beoutq-premier-league-uefa.html

PL, Serie A, Ligue Un, Asian Football Commission, Bundesliga, UEFA, FIFA, Sky, BBC, European Commission, World Trade Organisation have all attempted steps to shut the pirate station down. One has to admit it's a proper ****s trick. F1 complained as Bein decided not to renew its rights to their races due to BeOutQ.

RasTa

I get my temp checked everytime I go into work, that could work with 200 people going into a stadium.

Rock77

gstack166 wrote: »

Not even in the same sphere that example of the NBA.

When Saudi illegally blockaded Qatar along with their little sisters of Bahrain and UAE, they also blocked Bein Sports (the PL And just about every other sport rights holders for the entire MENA region).

To appease their citizens, they then simply pirated Bein Sports and broadcast it as BeOutQ (for a monthly fee) without paying a penny for the rights.

It would be like Virgin charging for a channel which broadcasts all Sky Sports channels and Sky get nothing for it despite having paid billions for the exclusive rights.

The Premier League & UEFA have tried several times to take BeOutQ to court in KSA. Each time (on 9 separate occasions) the law firms within Saudi have mysteriously dropped out.

This has been going on for over two years, even if it’s the first you’ve heard about it now.

Re the law firms dropping out:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/22/bein-sports-asks-premier-league-to-block-saudi-newcastle-deal-over-piracy


Last July, the Premier League said it had spoken to nine law firms in Saudi Arabia who either refused to act or later recused themselves when asked about pursuing a copyright complaint against beoutQ."

But it's not just the PL trying to sue BeOutQ in Saudi:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/16/sports/fifa-beoutq-premier-league-uefa.html

PL, Serie A, Ligue Un, Asian Football Commission, Bundesliga, UEFA, FIFA, Sky, BBC, European Commission, World Trade Organisation have all attempted steps to shut the pirate station down. One has to admit it's a proper ****s trick. F1 complained as Bein decided not to renew its rights to their races due to BeOutQ.

Thanks for the info, that’s crazy stuff...

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

I get my temp checked everytime I go into work, that could work with 200 people going into a stadium.

Except for those asymptomatic. And those having symptoms (such as a cough) but no temperature. Possibly the majority with Covid19.

Checking temperatures is a good PR exercise though.

8-10

Contact Tracing App on phones is also going to be necessary

Rayne Wooney

niallo27 wrote: »

People dieing in the thousands and you still manage to have a go at liverpool fans. Your a different level.

You know as well as I do that the idea that football fans and in particular Liverpool fans won’t congregate is complete bullshít.

Which is why football needs to begin as far as possible from the UK peak.

gstack166

Interesting to note that the Dutch PM said directly that restarting football without fans being able to attend means it is worth cancelling all together.

Easy to say that there is less money involved in Holland so it is easier for them to make that decision, but morally they have got this spot on.

8-10

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You know as well as I do that the idea that football fans and in particular Liverpool fans won’t congregate is complete bullshít.

Liverpool fans are the ones disagreeing with that though - I definitely don't think it will happen.

"Riots on Merseyside" - this is hyberbole, it won't happen like that. Given your allegiences and posting history on this forum it's my opinion that you have a bias when it comes to discussing Liverpool fan behaviour.

There is a stark reality right now that wasn't there at the time of the Atletico game. Society has changed.

8-10

gstack166 wrote: »

Interesting to note that the Dutch PM said directly that restarting football without fans being able to attend means it is worth cancelling all together.

Easy to say that there is less money involved in Holland so it is easier for them to make that decision, but morally they have got this spot on.

Games were already being played behind closed doors across Europe before this lockdown. It's being painted that restarting behind closed doors is something new that's being intrioduced.

Across society and countries nobody is talking about a big bang return to normal, everything is about a gradual relaxation of restrictions, meaning workforces are figuring out how to stagger a return to something approaching normal.

My place has already announced that it will be no longer than 50% of the workforce on site at any one time with everyone else working from home going forward.

This idea that we're going to continue with absolutely no football only until the point that we are absolutely certain we can pack a stadium with 50,000 fans is not practical when you're taking in the realities of what's happening.

Frankly, there might never be a stadium that full again, I don't believe that, but it's astonishing that people think we're just going to flip a switch, return to the normal we had before and just pack a stadium from day 1 of restart without any type of gradual easing into the new normal that we'll face using things like full or partially behind closed doors games.

yourdeadwright

gstack166 wrote: »

Interesting to note that the Dutch PM said directly that restarting football without fans being able to attend means it is worth cancelling all together.

Easy to say that there is less money involved in Holland so it is easier for them to make that decision, but morally they have got this spot on.

Not sure what you mean by morally , If its safe to have football behind closed door and players fell safe and happy to restart then what's wrong with that morally ?

It can help add some normality back to society and also may help kick start parts of the economy again , give people a bit of lift

Again if something is safe and the participants are happy to do it what is morally wrong ?

Morally wrong would be playing when unsafe to do so. Don't think anyone is pushing that.