General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Guy:Incognito

Drumpot wrote: »

Each the their own I guess but if you take money out of the equation the sport waits a lot longer to open up..

The same could be said of every industry so.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

My heart bleeds for them. Those poor lads

For the amount of PL players on huge money there are many multiples of people on normal salaries in football and in associated business dependent on them to earn money.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same could be said of every industry so.




For the amount of PL players on huge money there are many multiples of people on normal salaries in football and in associated business dependent on them to earn money.

Yes it is not just footballers, On match days you have stewards, shop staff, security staff, turnstiles staff, catering staff, and plenty of other roles within clubs. Then you have all the guys trying side hustles or full time jobs on the way to stadiums selling stuff to fans at every single stadium up and down the country tens of thousands on minimum wage losing their jobs because of no football.




But that posters heart bleeds for them to i guess.

Cantona's Collars

Agent Coulson wrote: »

On one of the podcasts i was listening to today they were talking about the players union stating that a lot of players are spending hours sitting down and playing video games which id effecting them and the players union is also getting lots of calls for help from players dealing with online gambling at home issues and lots are feeling their mental health is being affected.


Players are desperate to get back playing to get back to the routines they know and the sooner the better.

You forgot the bit about hiring strippers and escorts.
The players are waited on hand and foot so having to put up with the discomfort of sitting in their luxury homes must be so hard for them.
It's hard to feel pity for multi millionaires who always had the complaints of playing too many games now getting some time off and are now complaining that it's affecting them.

Shanotheslayer

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

Thank you for the great contribution to what is an interesting topic to discuss.



Aren't you one of the posters in the feedback thread complaining about posters doing exactly what you just did in that post making a smart ass comment that adds nothing. May check yourself before you complain about others doing the same thing.

I never once complained about smart arsed comments that I recall? I believe I complained about the Liverpool/United tit for tat.

My comment in relation to footballers wages is exactly what I think. They are a very wealthy profession whatever way you look at it. So no I really don't care if they have to sell 1 of their porsches.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same could be said of every industry so.

For the amount of PL players on huge money there are many multiples of people on normal salaries in football and in associated business dependent on them to earn money.

It's the premier league thread talking about premier league footballers. The point was made about wealthy footballers. Not industry's surrounding football.

As Drumpot already pointed out. If we're desperate for footballers to earn money then the priority should be the lower league as those footballers need it.

Arguing that football should be back because of footballers financial needs is completely different to arguing it should be back because of ''stewards, shop staff, security staff, turnstiles staff, catering staff, and plenty of other roles within clubs. Then you have all the guys trying side hustles or full time jobs on the way to stadiums selling stuff to fans at every single stadium up and down the country tens of thousands on minimum wage losing their jobs because of no football

Drumpot

Liberta Per Gli Ultra wrote: »

There is a big difference between the wealth of a club and the wealth of its players.

The EPL is definitely the most inflated league in the world, but that's not the same as being rich.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/relegation-a-must-to-keep-tv-cash-flow-39193625.html

There are actually options available to the league highlighted in that piece that lower leagues won’t have, they can sell a share in the league to plug the financial gap. Not saying they should but it is kind of sad in any scenario where money will take priority over human safety.

Really is mad to imagine where things are going to end up In all this. Feels like the world wants to ploughing ahead, what could possibly go wrong...

Drumpot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same could be said of every industry so..

Not really, there’s a reason there is a Phased re—opening of Different industrys. Football is not an essential industry for an economy and the job requires close contact between people from different parts of the country.

Rayne Wooney

Have they named who the two teams further up the table are who have joined the bottom 6 in objection to starting back in June? City and Chelsea presumably?

The problem will be if 8 club doctors are saying it’s unsafe to start again the majority vote goes out the window.

fyfe79

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Arguing that football should be back because of footballers financial needs is completely different to arguing it should be back because of ''stewards, shop staff, security staff, turnstiles staff, catering staff, and plenty of other roles within clubs. Then you have all the guys trying side hustles or full time jobs on the way to stadiums selling stuff to fans at every single stadium up and down the country tens of thousands on minimum wage losing their jobs because of no football[

I don't think that was really the argument though? The discussion was around why would footballers themselves want to come back, not why we think they would have to or why they should.

The top-level pro's can see their potential future earnings dwindle - they'll not be in the poor house, sure, but like any of us, would want to maximise their earnings in what is a short career. The low-level pros need to come back playing for obvious reasons - if they don't they'll have to start re-skilling for a different career sooner than they expected.

893bet

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

The average player in the top league is something like 50k a week then paying 50% tax driving a couple of 100k cars with probably a mortgage on a million plus home maybe a holiday home to pay off agents fees looking after family as well wearing all the top designer gear all adds up to needing to work for a lot of players.It will be a long time before players get contracts as good as the ones they are on now the next round of contract talks could see anywhere up to a decrease of 50% in their wages.

https://youtu.be/9ORNfD8e_sk

DeanAustin

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You forgot the bit about hiring strippers and escorts.
The players are waited on hand and foot so having to put up with the discomfort of sitting in their luxury homes must be so hard for them.
It's hard to feel pity for multi millionaires who always had the complaints of playing too many games now getting some time off and are now complaining that it's affecting them.

That's a bit harsh. They're people too no matter what they earn or how rich they are.

There was a scary stat a while back that a massive percentage of players' marriages end within a year or two of retiring and the researcher's assumption was that it was a gold-digging wife who abandoned the player who was no longer a star. Turned out in the majority of cases, it was the retired player who went to pieces because they couldn't handle not being in the limelight anymore. It's possible players are feeling some of that now. I know if I wasn't working, or only working a couple of hours, it'd affect me.

Fr Tod Umptious

DeanAustin wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. They're people too no matter what they earn or how rich they are.

There was a scary stat a while back that a massive percentage of players' marriages end within a year or two of retiring and the researcher's assumption was that it was a gold-digging wife who abandoned the player who was no longer a star. Turned out in the majority of cases, it was the retired player who went to pieces because they couldn't handle not being in the limelight anymore. It's possible players are feeling some of that now. I know if I wasn't working, or only working a couple of hours, it'd affect me.

I'm not sure it's necessarily about the limelight, moreso about the overall adjustment to retirement.

It has to be very tough on soccer players when they retire.

From probably the age of 10 they were singled out as being exceptional.
They went to a professional club in their teens, had probably the basic education allowed by the law and devoted all their time to the sport.
They had a career, some better than others, and some handled the money better than others.
Then at some stage they started to slow down, start losing their playing time to younger guys.

Then around mid 30s or earlier you are done.

Mid 30s is very young, most of us are only getting serious about a career and settling down at that age.

What do they do with the rest of their lives ?

El Gato De Negocios

As humans, most of us are programmed to work while we are physically able. Imagine at 35 or 36 that the one thing you have excelled at, you cannot do anymore. Psychologically that must be a massive adjustment to have to make.

y0ssar1an22

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Have they named who the two teams further up the table are who have joined the bottom 6 in objection to starting back in June? City and Chelsea presumably?

The problem will be if 8 club doctors are saying it’s unsafe to start again the majority vote goes out the window.

leicester must be 1 of them surely.

ETA: possibly SU as well?

if they are doing this with the view to it eventaully being canceleld, they would be 2 big winners. Chelsea as well

5starpool

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

leicester must be 1 of them surely.

ETA: possibly SU as well?

if they are doing this with the view to it eventaully being canceleld, they would be 2 big winners. Chelsea as well

You're confusing cancelled with completed without any more playing.

Statutory Ape

Statutory Ape wrote: »

As humans, most of us are programmed to work while we are physically able. Imagine at 35 or 36 that the one thing you have excelled at, you cannot do anymore. Psychologically that must be a massive adjustment to have to make.

They are fit and able to and in their 30s. Lots of people change careers in their 30s. Not buying that argument.

DeanAustin

6 wrote: »

They are fit and able to and in their 30s. Lots of people change careers in their 30s. Not buying that argument.

You're hardly going to go from being adored by tens of thousands in a ground every week and millions around the world to working in Tesco or getting an office job. And a lot of footballers have little education to enable a meaningful career change. Yeah, they're loaded but from a mental health point of view, I could see how many end up in a downward spiral. There's only so many media/coaching jobs to go around.

I'm also not one for shouting "mental health" every time someone feels down but I could seriously see problems for football players once they retire.

El Gato De Negocios

6 wrote: »

They are fit and able to and in their 30s. Lots of people change careers in their 30s. Not buying that argument.

How many people that change careers in their 30s are earning more a week than the average person does in a year? How many careers are there where you have 10s of thousands watching you live and millions more on tv on a weekly basis? How many careers are there where you will be deified and people chanting your name?

Footballers are completely and utterly incomparable to the average working joe soap.

smelly sock

Look lads football isnt going to take place for a long time and rightly so. Give Liverpool the title and void everything else.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

You're hardly going to go from being adored by tens of thousands in a ground every week and millions around the world to working in Tesco or getting an office job. And a lot of footballers have little education to enable a meaningful career change. Yeah, they're loaded but from a mental health point of view, I could see how many end up in a downward spiral. There's only so many media/coaching jobs to go around.

I'm also not one for shouting "mental health" every time someone feels down but I could seriously see problems for football players once they retire.

No, but some could retrain. Get an education. Use their skills to find work. Set up a business.

Lots of stuff these guys can do if they are willing. Firm believer in people who can do almost anything if they really want to.

I get your point though and I'd say the stats back it up. Different sport but similar issue... I remember reading previously about the amount of NFL players that go broke when finishing playing and it was a large percentage.

Statutory Ape

Statutory Ape wrote: »

How many people that change careers in their 30s are earning more a week than the average person does in a year? How many careers are there where you have 10s of thousands watching you live and millions more on tv on a weekly basis? How many careers are there where you will be deified and people chanting your name?

Footballers are completely and utterly incomparable to the average working joe soap.

What about the ex footballers that are working post football retirement? They have changed careers.

El Gato De Negocios

6 wrote: »

What about the ex footballers that are working post football retirement? They have changed careers.

The conversation wasn't about whether ex footballers could or couldn't work or are / are not working, it was about the transition from footballer to non footballer and the possible difficulties with adjusting.

Statutory Ape

Statutory Ape wrote: »

The conversation wasn't about whether ex footballers could or couldn't work or are / are not working, it was about the transition from footballer to non footballer and the possible difficulties with adjusting.

Using ex footballers as an example.. .

Switching from footballer to non footballer has been done before!

yourdeadwright

I'm still f the opinion they should just send everyone on the summer holidays and restart the current season when its safe ,
nothing else makes sense

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm still f the opinion they should just send everyone on the summer holidays and restart the current season when its safe ,
nothing else makes sense

So you force players to extend their contracts or play beyond their contracts for an indefinite period of time, or you finish the season with different squads than when it was suspended. Great integrity there.

You either play out the season soon, or you cancel the remainder (and make hard choices). Nothing else makes sense.

El Gato De Negocios

6 wrote: »

Using ex footballers as an example.. .

Switching from footballer to non footballer has been done before!

Of course it has been done and of course it can be done, literally nobody said it couldn't be.

yourdeadwright

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you force players to extend their contracts or play beyond their contracts for an indefinite period of time, or you finish the season with different squads than when it was suspended. Great integrity there.

You either play out the season soon, or you cancel the remainder (and make hard choices). Nothing else makes sense.

Its not safe to play out the season with Integrity
How is cancelling a season with 9 games left and abandoning everything teams have done showing integrity ?

All of Europe should start again in August and finish the season's start the new season in October , (cancel domestic cups next season )
Extend the contract till the final games are done, New singing can't play till the new season starts

extraordinary times call for something different

Statutory Ape

Statutory Ape wrote: »

Of course it has been done and of course it can be done, literally nobody said it couldn't be.

Literally on the same page above....

Mid 30s is very young, most of us are only getting serious about a career and settling down at that age.

What do they do with the rest of their lives ?

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its not safe to play out the season with Integrity
How is cancelling a season with 9 games left and abandoning everything teams have done showing integrity ?

All of Europe should start again in August and finish the season's start the new season in October , (cancel domestic cups next season )
Extend the contract till the final games are done, New singing can't play till the new season starts

extraordinary times call for something different

So, according to you, the "only" thing that makes sense is the thing they haven't done in France, or Holland, or Scotland, or Belgium (i think).

yourdeadwright

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So, according to you, the "only" thing that makes sense is the thing they haven't done in France, or Holland, or Scotland, or Belgium (i think).

Yes , football should have acted as a whole on this not country by country

That being said in some of them countries it was taken out of football authorities hands and imposed by government when the made rulings covering the whole spectrum of sports

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yes , football should have acted as a whole on this not country by country

That being said in some of them countries it was taken out of football authorities hands and imposed by government when the made rulings covering the whole spectrum of sports

Not true, really. Governments said football could not be played til September. The government did not say the seasons had to be finished, it was up to the Football Authorities to decide how that impacted them. Their decision was based on it being impractical, in their view, to suspend the current season to that point and restart then. That it was better to cancel the remainder of the season and start the next season when football restarts.

So the football authorities in those countries, along with the clubs, didn't chose to do the 'only' sensible thing to do.

PhilipsR

smelly sock wrote: »

Look lads football isnt going to take place for a long time and rightly so. Give Liverpool the title and void everything else.

The Bundesliga is literally starting back in 6 days time.

Bridge93

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yes , football should have acted as a whole on this not country by country

That being said in some of them countries it was taken out of football authorities hands and imposed by government when the made rulings covering the whole spectrum of sports

But why would they act as a whole when Covid-19 is affecting countries at different rates?

Like the Faroe Islands has eradicated live cases. Why would they wait until September because some countries are nowhere near ready to go? Surely its in their interests to try and get going again and alleviate the pressure on their system?

smelly sock

PhilipsR wrote: »

The Bundesliga is literally starting back in 6 days time.

With a team in the 2nd division isolating. Great.

Germany and UK cant be compared in terms of covid cases or deaths.

8-10

smelly sock wrote: »

With a team in the 2nd division isolating. Great.

If you expect it to be plain sailing and back to like it was before you're going to be disappointed. Teams might well have to go in and out of isolation, training will be different, games will be behind closed doors. You can't snap your fingers and it go back to 2019, football is going to look different.

Cookiemunster

smelly sock wrote: »

With a team in the 2nd division isolating. Great.

That's only because that's the rule in their State. It's a bit of an OTT rule seeing as the DFL are testing all players and staff twice a week. Other states only require the infected individual to be quarantined, with Koln and and Gladbach for example, already having players and staff individually quarantined without affecting the rest of the squad.

Fitz*

Premier League is allowed to return in June, behind closed doors.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1259835841628823553?s=19

Mitch Connor

Technically doesn't it say no earlier than June 1st - which could be impacted by how the next couple of weeks go, I guess.

But it does pave the way for PL to finally have a vote on when/how they are going to return. They need to kick on cause it feels like the last couple of weeks have been wasted from an organizing point of view. They have to present a final decision to Uefa on Friday week, so time is running out for the plans confirmed.

8-10

If you think about it, if the government wants "cultural and sporting events to take place behind closed-doors for broadcast" - that puts an onus on the Premier League to be prepared to return.

Thinking about it, there can't be many events larger than the EPL that they're talking about, and if sport is to return across the board it will look weird if the EPL isn't one of the first to return. You's find it hard to start up a sport for broadcast before the largest ones like the EPL deem it safe.

Next few weeks will definitely tell us more but on the face of it I think this is encouraging news

yourdeadwright

Call me crazy but if a team thinks there going down what stops them claiming covid cases to get games cancelled ?

Mitch Connor

8-10 wrote: »

If you think about it, if the government wants "cultural and sporting events to take place behind closed-doors for broadcast" - that puts an onus on the Premier League to be prepared to return.

Thinking about it, there can't be many events larger than the EPL that they're talking about, and if sport is to return across the board it will look weird if the EPL isn't one of the first to return. You's find it hard to start up a sport for broadcast before the largest ones like the EPL deem it safe.

Next few weeks will definitely tell us more but on the face of it I think this is encouraging news

Depends on the sport. If there are other sports that require less/no player on player physical contact then it becomes easier to stage (from a practical point of view, not financial).

Would snooker, darts, tennis - maybe even F1 - be easier to run from a social distancing perspective that soccer.

As for the next few weeks telling us more - the PL have to tell Uefa what they are doing in 12 days. They have to have made a decision/plan by then, so there is less than 2 weeks to go before something is known.

Of course a plan made prior to May 25th could be scuppered after May 25th by various factors, but we will have to know by May 25th if Project Restart is a goer or if the season is cancelled.

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Call me crazy but if a team thinks there going down what stops them claiming covid cases to get games cancelled ?

As far as I know there is an independent nature to the testing - so there should be a large degree of safe-guarding there.

Agent Coulson

Premier League clubs told 2019/20 season must be decided ‘on sporting merit’

The Football Association has told the Premier League clubs that the season must be settled by “sporting merit”, potentially splitting the six bottom clubs over how to finish the season.

It means that issues like relegation or the title must be settled by either playing the remaining fixtures, or a formula like points-per-game.

Voiding the season remains completely off the table.

The announcement came at the very start of Monday’s crunch videoconference, and immediately took some of the expected tension out of the meeting. The Independent has been told that the FA’s hand was forced by the amount of politicking over ‘Project Restart’ in the last few weeks, and felt the need to act.

The governing body’s board came to unanimous agreement on the decision..........

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/pl-project-restart-coronavirus-latest-sporting-merit-relegation-a9508601.html?utm_source=reddit.com

Drumpot

What will be interesting is if clubs start losing big players or a lot of players if there is a significant outbreak.

Agent Coulson

Latest: FA chairman Greg Clarke told Premier League clubs today the governing body will not sanction 'no relegation' or voiding the season (as revealed in The Times last week). He also suggested the clubs plan what to do if the season cannot be completed.

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1259865254609268737?s=20

LuckyLloyd

Get relegated or prepare to defend your position on the field. That should change the positions of a couple of clubs...

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Get relegated or prepare to defend your position on the field. That should change the positions of a couple of clubs...

if more than the 3 bottom clubs oppose, whats the leverage? anyone else the league can't take a position away from them.

Also, it needs 14 votes to go through, some 6 can vote against and it still be forced through, but will the PL force clubs tht are opposed? I reckon they are going to have to look for 20 out of 20.

Otherwise the legal problems will be huge.

LuckyLloyd

Mitch Connor wrote: »

if more than the 3 bottom clubs oppose, whats the leverage? anyone else the league can't take a position away from them.

Also, it needs 14 votes to go through, some 6 can vote against and it still be forced through, but will the PL force clubs tht are opposed? I reckon they are going to have to look for 20 out of 20.

Otherwise the legal problems will be huge.

Seems to me the options are narrowing here:

- a return behind closed doors within the next 4 - 6 weeks
- a conclusion to the season with some calculation of the table to date

I can see legal action in either scenario, potentially from unexpected directions...

Iused2likebusts

Drumpot wrote: »

What will be interesting is if clubs start losing big players or a lot of players if there is a significant outbreak.

They need to come out and say that a whole team wont need to be quarantined if one player tests poistive. This is what they have said in portugal and is the only way to get this done. Wasting their time restarting if the plan is to quarantine a team for 14 days if a player tests positive.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seems to me the options are narrowing here:

- a return behind closed doors within the next 4 - 6 weeks
- a conclusion to the season with some calculation of the table to date

I can see legal action in either scenario, potentially from unexpected directions...

the problem as I see it is the PL is in control of its own fate, really.

In France the FA control the top two leagues, and also it is part of their rules that if the season cannot finish as normal, the standings will be declared as per the table as it stood.

In the PL there is no such rule, and I don't think the FA has the ability to force a solution on the clubs either.

I think in Holland there is more control over the top league as well.

The PL being a seperate institution is a problem, as far as I can see.

Whatever the final decision, the PL need to find a way to get all the clubs to agree to it, and I don't see how they can.

I do wonder what legal legs the PL have to stand on. The case a few years back would show them to be quite strong. West Ham guilty of playing an ineligible player for 26 matches, who's goals kept them up at the expense of Sheff United, and the PL were still able to relegate Sheffield United and get away with it.

Mitch Connor

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

They need to come out and say that a whole team wont need to be quarantined if one player tests poistive. This is what they have said in portugal and is the only way to get this done. Wasting their time restarting if the plan is to quarantine a team for 14 days if a player tests positive.

I saw someone saying Villa losing McGinn and Grealish and Wellington would be a big loss to them, in counter to someone saying clubs should be able to cope without 2 or 3 players, that is what you have squads for. Don't think it was a conversation here.

On one hand you can argue to treat is as any other injury, but on the other hand can you treat it like any other type of injury? Martial isn't likely to pick up a back problem off Rashford.

I dunno, it a toughie. but the reality is that unless we wait for all the players to be vaccinated, there is no way of making it a zero chance scenario of players getting infected (either while training or playing matches). It obviously is an argument that it is exactly what they do have to wait for, and if football clubs and football itself falls then so be it. But is that what the majority of players are going to argue for?