General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Mitch Connor

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why won't the TV companies want some money back.

Arguably....

1. by demanding money back they are further damaging the product.
2. there is a very good chance they will be able to show twice the amount of live games - even with some/a lot of those being FTA (in some form) they have increased advertising rev to make from that too.

Also, lol at the TV companies looking for a rebate because, essentially, fans are there to generate an atmosphere - the same fans the TV companies show zero respect or consideration for.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

I wonder if the restart goes well will they just use that as pre season and go straight into next season (if possible). No friendlies have been arranged because they can’t and Euros are next summer so it’s not like there’s a lot of room to wait about.

I would say you'll get a few weeks between seasons, if all goes well. I reckon there will be a break for the non-Euro sides, with Uefa looking at EL/CL in August. I reckon the leagues will be in down time for those fixtures.

Bridge93

Do we know whether there is a clause in the contract that games must be played with crowds?

Either way it’ll be a Frustration of Contract if anything surely? This has been totally out of the EPLs hands. How the courts would go about awarding if it got that far I’m not sure but I don’t see the EPL handing over anything just yet. Sky would want to be careful too given the premier league is about 90% of their offering at this stage. To lose it over a product they’re still getting in some capacity would be disastrous. May even get more games and if no one can attend even larger audiences?

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say you'll get a few weeks between seasons, if all goes well. I reckon there will be a break for the non-Euro sides, with Uefa looking at EL/CL in August. I reckon the leagues will be in down time for those fixtures.

Yeh that’s prob a good call.

Wasn’t there rumours of UEFA scrapping 2 legs and just playing one knockout game to get the tournaments finished?

Been so focused on just trying to relax during the lockdown , finding it hard to picture where the sports going to end up. Feels surreal that football may even be starting back up as soon as next week. I hope it’s not a massive disappointment. Wonder if any stations will try to special effects a crowd and/or crowd noise to spice it up a bit.

Guy:Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And if it is delivered it will look very different to what was ordered (i.e behind closed doors)

TV companies have invested heavily in selling on this product but now their customers have gone and cancelled their orders, many will not bother ordering again because the replacement product will not be the same quality.

Why won't the TV companies want some money back.

Do you really believe that with no option to go to games, no pubs to go watch it in, fans will suddenly just decide to not watch it because there are not people inside the ground watching?

I cant see how it wont result in an increase of subscribers.

Rayne Wooney

The Sky thing is just paper filler, realistically Sky aren’t winning in court on the back of a global pandemic.

Now if the games don’t go ahead thats a different story because it’s not the PLs money in that case.

ArmaniJeanss

There may not be that much extra advertising revenue.
If say Carlsberg or Cadbury have already paid for an ad slot during every televised match then Sky don't get anything more.
Conversely if the contract was for 150 slots in 150 games then the extra games would lead to extra revenue.

The additional tv games will be at the lower end of demand/revenue though.
Presumably Sky won't be allowed 'cheat' and declare that Burnley v Bournemouth is the normal fixture whilst Chelsea v Liverpool is the extra bonus tv game.

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

I wonder if the restart goes well will they just use that as pre season and go straight into next season (if possible). No friendlies have been arranged because they can’t and Euros are next summer so it’s not like there’s a lot of room to wait about.

Interesting idea. Could happen, might make sense. Have a decent winter break then too.

Obviously a wave of infections could blow it out of the water!

y0ssar1an22

6 wrote: »

Interesting idea. Could happen, might make sense. Have a decent winter break then too.

Obviously a wave of infections could blow it out of the water!

have the germans said what happens in their leagues if outbreaks amongst the squads continue?
are they plowing on regardless?

y0ssar1an22

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11986789/premier-league-restart-relegation-training-and-return-dates-discussed-by-ceo-richard-masters

some points from the linked article. Following a Premier League shareholders meeting on Monday, chief executive Richard Masters spoke to Sky Sports News and other media outlets on a conference call to discuss the next steps to a return to action.

Is there a deadline for Premier League talks to end?
"No. We're not setting ourselves a deadline but clubs know we have to have a clear way forward and that decisions have to be made in order to create a clear path forward, so it's an active discussion."

How did no one follow up up with, are there any deadlines imposed by Uefa?

What happens if players test positive like at Dynamo Dresden?
"With regards to our training protocols, if a player were to test positive, providing he has been socially distanced, as anticipated in these training protocols, then that player would obviously be isolated for a period. There's no need for the rest of the group to be isolated as they would have been socially distant."

What about when contact training resumes and games?


Have clubs discussed curtailment of the season?
"The discussions about curtailment are contingency planning. All the discussions are about completing the season but it is prudent to have a look at what might happen in alternative scenarios. Those conversations are confidential."

June 12 target to return to action still on course?
"I really wouldn't want to make a prediction now. Clearly we have plans but they're all flexible. I think before you've even decided to go back to training that it isn't right to start to talk about when we think we're going to get back to playing.

Seems a bit bonkers. They haven't even discussed when they may resume playing?

And if it does not, what's the situation (if the season doesnt play out what happens with relegation)?
"You're getting into the discussions we had today about curtailment and the positive decisions that need to be taken. Those discussions are confidential."

How many players will not be able to play due to underlying conditions?
"I don't have that information, no.

Is this something that clubs might just have to suck up? Essentially injury prone. Until a vaccine is available they will remain at risk.

How many weeks' group training before it is safe to play? How many positive cases would be sufficient to allow a squad to suspend a game?
"We've not alighted on a formula for either of those. "We have talked about four weeks of training but haven't agreed yet as we haven't agreed to go back to training yet."

so right now, 4 weeks training, if they start today that is 09/06/2020. play every 3 days after that, that gives 9 games finish by 09/07/2020. its possible. i also think the whole of july is possible as well. but its tight.

my comments bolded above.

i think its really in the balance. they are desperate to get the league up and running, but cant be seen to fly in the face of the public health guidelines, or risk their employees safety. The 1st question above is very important I feel. Anyone know if there are any deadlines imposed by Uefa?

Cookiemunster

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

have the germans said what happens in their leagues if outbreaks amongst the squads continue?
are they plowing on regardless?

It depends on the state the team plays in. Saxony (where Dresden is situated) with its two week quarantine of the entire squad is doing it differently to most states who will allow teams to continue playing, as long as those infected players are isolated, as all players are tested twice a week.

Already Koln and Gladbach have had players and staff test positive in the first two rounds of testing, but it hasn't stopped their preparations or put any of their matches in doubt because the state of North Rhine Westphalia (where 7 of the 18 1. Bundesliga teams are based) has different rules.

Fr Tod Umptious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you really believe that with no option to go to games, no pubs to go watch it in, fans will suddenly just decide to not watch it because there are not people inside the ground watching?

I cant see how it wont result in an increase of subscribers.

It's pretty simple really.

A lot of people dumped sports packages when sports were suspended a few months ago.

In the meantime a lot of people have lost their jobs, many temporarily, but many permanently also.

Reactivating a sports subscription for a reduced service is not something that will have a huge uptake.

The notion that the extra games will attract more subscriptions does not wash, yes you'll have the hardcore who will watch any soccer game, but for most the likes Newcastle v Southampton behind closed doors is not more appealing than it being in front of a packed house.

As for the people who would go to the pub deciding to subscribe instead, yes there will be some but I'm not sure how big a number that will be.

All_in_Flynn

https://www.the42.ie/danny-rose-premier-league-return-5096786-May2020/

I'd say there are a lot of players who feel the same way. Gun to my head, I'd say the league restarts at some stage due to pure greed.

Season should be ended now whether that be by null & voiding the season or a mathematical formula. Its wrong to be going back in 3 or 4 weeks in my opinion.

ebbsy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They want a rebate because what they have been sold is not what is being delivered.

The EPL are already 2 months late with delivery of the product.

There is no guarantee when it will be delivered

And if it is delivered it will look very different to what was ordered (i.e behind closed doors)

TV companies have invested heavily in selling on this product but now their customers have gone and cancelled their orders, many will not bother ordering again because the replacement product will not be the same quality.

Why won't the TV companies want some money back.

Good point.

Tom Mann Centuria

I wonder if Danny Rose's dissenting voice about restarting the league will be joined by any others.

ERG89

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I wonder if Danny Rose's dissenting voice about restarting the league will be joined by any others.

Considering most people are going to be quote "actively encouraged" to get back to work in England soon they will likely not see much sympathy from the public.
Its not like Danny Rose or most footballers in general give a f**k about anyone outside their own bubble.

citytillidie

ERG89 wrote: »

Considering most people are going to be quote "actively encouraged" to get back to work in England soon they will likely not see much sympathy from the public.
Its not like Danny Rose or most footballers in general give a f**k about anyone outside their own bubble.

Bit like a former player having a rant about having to play football on New Years Day while everyone else is off. People will not have much sympathy for them when they are making more in a year than some people will earn in a life time.

Fitz*

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I wonder if Danny Rose's dissenting voice about restarting the league will be joined by any others.

I don't get the impression that Danny Rose likes playing football anymore, but a lot of that is probably linked to some unfortunate personal issues he has had in the last few years outside of the sport.

On the other hand, Sean Dyche has said that he wants the season to be completed in a podcast on the Athletic.

Shanotheslayer

ERG89 wrote: »

Considering most people are going to be quote "actively encouraged" to get back to work in England soon they will likely not see much sympathy from the public.
Its not like Danny Rose or most footballers in general give a f**k about anyone outside their own bubble.

I'm pretty sure that's Human Nature and not specific to footballers. Nobody gives a **** about anyone outside their own bubble generally. I definitely fall into that category myself

Shanotheslayer

FitzShane wrote: »

I don't get the impression that Danny Rose likes playing football anymore, but a lot of that is probably linked to some unfortunate personal issues he has had in the last few years outside of the sport.

Agree with this completely. But I think he's always said it's just a job to him?. I think there was an article before where he spoke about racism really effecting him and suffering with depression?

On that note, Ian Wright received some horrific messages on Instagram and believe the police got involved. Makes you think how many times this happens regularly to black footballers when they score goals against opposition racist 'supporters'

Edit:

https://twitter.com/IanWright0/status/1259833040626429954?s=19

Guy:Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's pretty simple really.

A lot of people dumped sports packages when sports were suspended a few months ago.

In the meantime a lot of people have lost their jobs, many temporarily, but many permanently also.

Reactivating a sports subscription for a reduced service is not something that will have a huge uptake.

The notion that the extra games will attract more subscriptions does not wash, yes you'll have the hardcore who will watch any soccer game, but for most the likes Newcastle v Southampton behind closed doors is not more appealing than it being in front of a packed house.

As for the people who would go to the pub deciding to subscribe instead, yes there will be some but I'm not sure how big a number that will be.

No fans in the ground isnt a reduced service. Theres nothing in the contract that guarantees you a stadium full of people to look at on tv. If a game doesnt sell out , can I look for some money back?

People who lost their jobs may well not reactivate their sports subs, yes, but thats because they cant afford it. Nothing to do with there being no fans in the ground to look at.

You're looking at this like its a normal situation where people will just decide not to bother with football. There are 50 odd thousand people that normally would be in St. James Park for that game against Southampton. You think theyll all just go "ah, dont actually want to watch Newcastle really" .
Pubs didnt pay large amounts of money for Sky Sports subscriptions to have the matches on silently in the backround like Sky News that no one was watching. They had it because it brought crowds in and filled the pub. A good chunk of those people will be looking to watch the football once it comes back.

The alternative to watching on the TV at home are gone (outside of illegal methods). Football fans still exist and want to watch the matches.

bennyineire

I wonder how he would feel if he was told he would not be paid for the equivalent games not played. i.e. 9 weeks pay. At the end of the day this is all about money, if he came out and said he would have no problem not been paid for the the games missed then I would respect that, if not then he can do one

JoshRosen

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1260160485867114498?s=21

Guy:Incognito

bennyineire wrote: »

I wonder how he would feel if he was told he would not be paid for the equivalent games not played. i.e. 9 weeks pay. At the end of the day this is all about money, if he came out and said he would have no problem not been paid for the the games missed then I would respect that, if not then he can do one

The thing is, he could afford a pay break most likely. Might be a different situation if footballers were all on 30k a year. Theyd be working to the industry plan for returning to work, like the rest of us most likely will be.

Cantona's Collars

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I wonder if Danny Rose's dissenting voice about restarting the league will be joined by any others.

Danny Rose isn't exactly a popular fella if the reports about him are to be believed.

Cantona's Collars

JoshRosen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1260160485867114498?s=21

Yet the ordinary blue collar workers and builders were crammed into trains,buses,cars and vans since yesterday over there.

JoshRosen

https://twitter.com/mikekeegan_dm/status/1259894775710449671?s=21

Fr Tod Umptious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No fans in the ground isnt a reduced service. Theres nothing in the contract that guarantees you a stadium full of people to look at on tv. If a game doesnt sell out , can I look for some money back?

People who lost their jobs may well not reactivate their sports subs, yes, but thats because they cant afford it. Nothing to do with there being no fans in the ground to look at.

You're looking at this like its a normal situation where people will just decide not to bother with football. There are 50 odd thousand people that normally would be in St. James Park for that game against Southampton. You think theyll all just go "ah, dont actually want to watch Newcastle really" .
Pubs didnt pay large amounts of money for Sky Sports subscriptions to have the matches on silently in the backround like Sky News that no one was watching. They had it because it brought crowds in and filled the pub. A good chunk of those people will be looking to watch the football once it comes back.

The alternative to watching on the TV at home are gone (outside of illegal methods). Football fans still exist and want to watch the matches.

How many times have people commented about the great atmosphere at a game that they were watching on TV ?

You hear it all the time

I know from my own watching experience that the atmosphere at the ground adds to the enjoyment of watching the game.

On this or the now closed Covid-19 thread people have commented how Utd v LASK was just not the same behind closed doors

You are going to struggle to get people to pay for something that is very different to what they were used of paying for.
Games behind closed doors are for most people going to be a very different viewing experience than games with crowds

I'm not sure pubs were being filled either my soccer watching crowds
For decades now we have heard about the demise of pubs and their ability to attract custom.
I really doubt that many were getting a good ROI on their sky subs
Many were doing it because they had to, if they did not have Sky then whatever bit of custom it might bring would have moved to the nearest pub that had Sky.

As for the 50k that would usually be in st. James's Park , I don't know
Some will subscribe obviously depending on how many Newcastle games will be shown.
But i don't think you can guarantee a fan base to en-mass subscribe for what is left of the season.

TitianGerm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

How many times have people commented about the great atmosphere at a game that they were watching on TV ?

You hear it all the time

I know from my own watching experience that the atmosphere at the ground adds to the enjoyment of watching the game.

On this or the now closed Covid-19 thread people have commented how Utd v LASK was just not the same behind closed doors

You are going to struggle to get people to pay for something that is very different to what they were used of paying for.
Games behind closed doors are for most people going to be a very different viewing experience than games with crowds

I'm not sure pubs were being filled either my soccer watching crowds
For decades now we have heard about the demise of pubs and their ability to attract custom.
I really doubt that many were getting a good ROI on their sky subs
Many were doing it because they had to, if they did not have Sky then whatever bit of custom it might bring would have moved to the nearest pub that had Sky.

As for the 50k that would usually be in st. James's Park , I don't know
Some will subscribe obviously depending on how many Newcastle games will be shown.
But i don't think you can guarantee a fan base to en-mass subscribe for what is left of the season.

Very rare you hear anyone mention how good the crowd sounds when watching Sky. They turn down the crowd noises so you can hear the commentary in most cases.

Fr Tod Umptious

TitianGerm wrote: »

Very rare you hear anyone mention how good the crowd sounds when watching Sky. They turn down the crowd noises so you can hear the commentary in most cases.

So you are telling me that you have never noticed the atmosphere or lack of it in a stadium while watching a match ?

ERG89

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So you are telling me that you have never noticed the atmosphere or lack of it in a stadium while watching a match ?

They must adjust the audio some bit at times or people must REALLY get unnaturally excited about late corner kicks in games

TitianGerm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So you are telling me that you have never noticed the atmosphere or lack of it in a stadium while watching a match ?

I've noticed it but I'm paying more attention to the actual match than the crowd. I'd imagine most people do. You don't watch a match on the TV to soak in the atmosphere.

duffman13

When you've a good proportion of the workforce here and the UK on government income supports, I dont think a subscription tv service is the first thing that will be bought again by customers. IPTV might see a spike if people are stuck! The longer term effects of this on Premier league TV money will be interesting!

Cantona's Collars

TitianGerm wrote: »

I've noticed it but I'm paying more attention to the actual match than the crowd. I'd imagine most people do. You don't watch a match on the TV to soak in the atmosphere.

Listen to the likes of NBCSN compared to Sky,the experience is completely different. Sky seem to adjust the audio to make the commentator sound more prominent.
Even on TV the crowd noise adds to it. Just listen to how a good movie score adds to it.
Honestly,tell me as a Liverpool fan that you wouldn't find it weird not to hear the kop singing or roaring as a goal is scored? Jaysus,there were posters here who haven't forgiven Martin Tyler over talking while they were singing ynwa.

Plus how will the ref know that he's a w*nker if there's no crowd chanting it at him:)

Drumpot

TitianGerm wrote: »

I've noticed it but I'm paying more attention to the actual match than the crowd. I'd imagine most people do. You don't watch a match on the TV to soak in the atmosphere.

That’s very true but I think it’s very noticeable when there is no atmosphere or an empty stadium.

I’m convinced somebody will try and add crowd noises and maybe even super impose crowds onto games.

Wonder how it will effect players who are used to being energised by crowds. Celebrations may change a but for some. Also wonder if refs might enjoy the relative lack of abuse and if maybe they will make better calls without the distractions. There’s a lot of things that will be interesting to see potentially change.

~Rebel~

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

How many times have people commented about the great atmosphere at a game that they were watching on TV ?

You hear it all the time

I know from my own watching experience that the atmosphere at the ground adds to the enjoyment of watching the game.

On this or the now closed Covid-19 thread people have commented how Utd v LASK was just not the same behind closed doors

You are going to struggle to get people to pay for something that is very different to what they were used of paying for.
Games behind closed doors are for most people going to be a very different viewing experience than games with crowds

I'm not sure pubs were being filled either my soccer watching crowds
For decades now we have heard about the demise of pubs and their ability to attract custom.
I really doubt that many were getting a good ROI on their sky subs
Many were doing it because they had to, if they did not have Sky then whatever bit of custom it might bring would have moved to the nearest pub that had Sky.

As for the 50k that would usually be in st. James's Park , I don't know
Some will subscribe obviously depending on how many Newcastle games will be shown.
But i don't think you can guarantee a fan base to en-mass subscribe for what is left of the season.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but lads, we've got to stop using the example of Utd V LASK as the benchmark of what games behind closed doors are like... it was Utd against feckin LASK. Was this a game that was ever going to be interesting to anyone other than Utd fans? It was a match-up pretty much devoid of tension from its announcement. A chasm in quality that played out with a 5-0 win. The only thing that could have made it in any way notable is if there was a major upset or something, which of course there wasn't...

On the other hand, actually decent match-ups played behind closed doors produced pretty decent games - PSG Dortmund was a good watch, and Valencia Atalanta was one of the best games of the season.

Bad games with no crowd will be a bit worse than otherwise. Great games with no crowd will still be pretty good.

Fitz*

This was around a year ago, crowd noises being pumped through the speakers in a stadium. I'm sure that stadiums, or even the TV companies themselves, could play a 'backing track' of crowd noise during games.

https://twitter.com/eplstuff/status/1118572239446773761?lang=en

~Rebel~

FitzShane wrote: »

This was around a year ago, crowd noises being pumped through the speakers in a stadium. I'm sure that stadiums, or even the TV companies themselves, could play a 'backing track' of crowd noise during games.

https://twitter.com/eplstuff/status/1118572239446773761?lang=en

Throw on a "Best Of Vuvuzelas" cd for 90 minutes, be grand.

Father Hernandez

I watched the Juve Inter game before everything went into lockdown, a decent game but the noticeable lack of an atmosphere made it a hard watch.

As Rebel mentions, PSG Dortmund and Valencia Atalanta were both cracking matches but no doubt the atmosphere, or lack of was missing.

Just because there is no crowd won't make it a bad game but nonetheless it is inferior quality as it's not what we're used to which I'm sure Sky/BT are getting at.

As for the fake crowd noises, they'll need someone sitting on this manually to follow the game. If a goal goes in and the crowd still has a monotonous noise, it'd be brutal.

ebbsy

As a Liverpool fan, if some Manchester City players do not play against us that would be great .


In fact if they concede the match I can crack open the champers.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1260184495388581888

Precedents could be set with this.

Utopia Parkway

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I watched the Juve Inter game before everything went into lockdown, a decent game but the noticeable lack of an atmosphere made it a hard watch.

As Rebel mentions, PSG Dortmund and Valencia Atalanta were both cracking matches but no doubt the atmosphere, or lack of was missing.

Just because there is no crowd won't make it a bad game but nonetheless it is inferior quality as it's not what we're used to which I'm sure Sky/BT are getting at.

As for the fake crowd noises, they'll need someone sitting on this manually to follow the game. If a goal goes in and the crowd still has a monotonous noise, it'd be brutal.

Behind closed doors football is ****e but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't watch it. That said I probably wouldn't watch as many games as before.

Besides it looks like it will be around for not only the remainder of this season but probably all of next season as well so will just have to get used to it for a while.

Chuck Noland

The Man United Europa League match was very strange with very little fans in attendance. I can’t imagine a big relegation battle and a defender absolutely clatters into the oppositions star player in the first 10/15 minutes taking man and ball and jumps to his feet In almost silence bar a few teammates clapping. I’ll be tuning into whatever major league gets back first tho as I cannot wait to see some live football again. I’d even nearly watch an international qualifier at this stage...

Mitch Connor

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1260184495388581888

Precedents could be set with this.

Can't see them winning, as there is a specific rule in their league covering the table being called on current standings if the season cannot be completed. (Such a rule does not exist in PL/FA)

Mitch Connor

I thought it was interesting being able to clearly hear player and manager shouts.

It is odd to see, but I had no issue watching United vs LASK. Though I have watched a fair share of youth football which is played on training pitches, empty small league stadiums or empty big stadiums - so maybe I have just got used to it over time.

JoshRosen

https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1260145222354337792?s=21

~Rebel~

JoshRosen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1260145222354337792?s=21

Still not bad going... that's over 12 million people being made happy by an entertainment thing. Be hard enough pressed to find another that would have a similar impact I'd say.

Mushy

TV stations (sky) already play crowd noises over the stadium crowd, just watch any leeds game where they're chanting about Sky. You'll hear it fade out and generic noise take its place. It's more funny more than anything, and say it would be done for games if they are to go ahead.

Mitch Connor

Mushy wrote: »

TV stations (sky) already play crowd noises over the stadium crowd, just watch any leeds game where they're chanting about Sky. You'll hear it fade out and generic noise take its place. It's more funny more than anything, and say it would be done for games if they are to go ahead.

Is it fake crowd noise or turning down the channel from one section of the stadium and up in a section of the stadium they deem less offensive?

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is it fake crowd noise or turning down the channel from one section of the stadium and up in a section of the stadium they deem less offensive?

Sky market it as a family 'product' and it's noticeable how crowd noise can be indecipherable on Sky compared to other broadcasters.