General Premier League Thread 2019-20

TitianGerm

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1214865581096046592?s=19

Maguire could be out for a while it looks like. Guess Ole messed up leaving him on against Wolves when it was plain as day he was struggling.

This is it

Baggly wrote: »

6 votes in

Close it up. Who won?

Trigger

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1214865581096046592?s=19

Maguire could be out for a while it looks like. Guess Ole messed up leaving him on against Wolves when it was plain as day he was struggling.

A torn hip muscle.. ouch!

Dunno what Ole was doing leaving him on, it was clear as day that he was in pain and struggling..

Baggly

This is it wrote: »

Close it up. Who won?

Ah ill leave it open for the day.

TitianGerm

Trigger wrote: »

A torn hip muscle.. ouch!

Dunno what Ole was doing leaving him on, it was clear as day that he was in pain and struggling..

He did it early in the first half trying to tackle Traore I think. It's actually incompetence to leave him on

gimli2112

TitianGerm wrote: »

He did it early in the first half trying to tackle Traore I think. It's actually incompetence to leave him on

That'll be on the medical staff or the player himself. It's vital he's not sacked until after the Anfield game. Can't risk a new manager bounce at this stage of the season.

TitianGerm

gimli2112 wrote: »

That'll be on the medical staff or the player himself. It's vital he's not sacked until after the Anfield game. Can't risk a new manager bounce at this stage of the season.

I'd hope he's still there this time next year.

Backstreet Moyes

TitianGerm wrote: »

He did it early in the first half trying to tackle Traore I think. It's actually incompetence to leave him on

I am trying to understand how somebody hated Mourinho and wanted him out after finishing 2nd and winning two cups

The same person thinks Ole should be given money to rebuild the squad but a proven world class manager shouldn't have been backed

Points to his good signings for the reason

Maguire has been average and was a Mourinho target
Wan Bissaka was a standout last year and cost a fortune
James was recommended by Giggs and after a good start has been poor recently

It's like some sort of cult like behavior and I can understand why all other fans are laughing at United

Diggy78

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am trying to understand how somebody hated Mourinho and wanted him out after finishing 2nd and winning two cups

The same person thinks Ole should be given money to rebuild the squad but a proven world class manager shouldn't have been backed

Points to his good signings for the reason

Maguire has been average and was a Mourinho target
Wan Bissaka was a standout last year and cost a fortune
James was recommended by Giggs and after a good start has been poor recently

It's like some sort of cult like behavior and I can understand why all other fans are laughing at United

I enjoy laughing at United as much as anyone but to be fair I'd say it's a pretty small cult. Most want Ole gone and have the same opinion on the signings as yourself.

TitianGerm

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am trying to understand how somebody hated Mourinho and wanted him out after finishing 2nd and winning two cups

The same person thinks Ole should be given money to rebuild the squad but a proven world class manager shouldn't have been backed

Points to his good signings for the reason

Maguire has been average and was a Mourinho target
Wan Bissaka was a standout last year and cost a fortune
James was recommended by Giggs and after a good start has been poor recently

It's like some sort of cult like behavior and I can understand why all other fans are laughing at United

As I posted before it's to go against those who you don't agree with. The enemy of my enemy is my friend so to say :pac:

Baggly

14 votes in

gimli2112

I voted but along tribal lines. This is why Salah wins everything. Egypt has a huge population that's mad about him.

Baggly

Good to see Kenny Dalglish get a couple of votes. Still got it.

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am trying to understand how somebody hated Mourinho and wanted him out after finishing 2nd and winning two cups

The same person thinks Ole should be given money to rebuild the squad but a proven world class manager shouldn't have been backed

Points to his good signings for the reason

Maguire has been average and was a Mourinho target
Wan Bissaka was a standout last year and cost a fortune
James was recommended by Giggs and after a good start has been poor recently

It's like some sort of cult like behavior and I can understand why all other fans are laughing at United

Mourinho had fallen out with the majority of the squad by the time he left. He bought poorly, spent over 400m and was given time. Before him utd went for another world class manager van gaal. Again wasted money and destroyed the squad. No matter who comes in its going to be a building job. I would give ole some time to see what he can do. Still in the race for top 4

Fitz*

Some senior Everton players are said to have revolted against Ferguson & Ancelotti after their loss at the weekend, blaming their tactics for the loss.

A group of 10 Everton fans apparently showed up at the training ground this week demanding talks with senior Everton players to question their loyalty, commitment and effort being put in, while earning big money. They were saying that if they didn't get to talk to the players that 200 or 300 more would show up and cause havoc. They eventually got a showdown talk with Marcel Brands where he explained Everton are working under FFP constraints and that they have to sell to buy.

I swear, they are 2 weeks away from ultras picking the team, in true Serie A form! :pac:

TitianGerm

FitzShane wrote: »

Some senior Everton players are said to have revolted against Ferguson & Ancelotti after their loss at the weekend, blaming their tactics for the loss.

A group of 10 Everton fans apparently showed up at the training ground this week demanding talks with senior Everton players to question their loyalty, commitment and effort being put in, while earning big money. They were saying that if they didn't get to talk to the players that 200 or 300 more would show up and cause havoc. They eventually got a showdown talk with Marcel Brands where he explained Everton are working under FFP constraints and that they have to sell to buy.

I swear, they are 2 weeks away from ultras picking the team, in true Serie A form! :pac:

Yea blame the lads there a few weeks. That's why they haven't won at Anfield in yonks.

It's more likely Ferguson and Ancelotti are asking a lot more of the players than previous managers and they don't like it.

bangkok

FitzShane wrote: »

Some senior Everton players are said to have revolted against Ferguson & Ancelotti after their loss at the weekend, blaming their tactics for the loss.

A group of 10 Everton fans apparently showed up at the training ground this week demanding talks with senior Everton players to question their loyalty, commitment and effort being put in, while earning big money. They were saying that if they didn't get to talk to the players that 200 or 300 more would show up and cause havoc. They eventually got a showdown talk with Marcel Brands where he explained Everton are working under FFP constraints and that they have to sell to buy.

I swear, they are 2 weeks away from ultras picking the team, in true Serie A form! :pac:

I said when he joined that anchelotti going there would end in failure. He needs a few years but that doesnt sound.too good early on. Sigurdson is one already who he wants out.

8-10

FitzShane wrote: »

Marcel Brands where he explained Everton are working under FFP constraints and that they have to sell to buy.

They’re paying Ancelotti more than Klopp gets (who has had 3 pay rises while at Liverpool) and spent more than £20m each on 14 players in the last 3 years:

Iwobi
Gbamin
Gomes
Kean
Bolasie
Schneiderlin
Sigurdsson
Richarlison
Keane
Pickford
Tosun
Walcott
Klaasen
Mina

Total: 366m
Average: 26m each

I reckon less than half of these have a resale value higher than what they were bought for. For a club outside of European competition this is pretty big spending and if they’re now talking about FFP maybe they’ve overspent a bit on some of these players trying to build a team capable of qualifying for Europe.

Every club has bad signings and there’s a few of the above that I do really like, but overall it doesn’t feel like they’ve made big steps forward from finishing in the same position they’re in now 4 years ago with aging players like Hibbert, Barry, Osman, Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar

That team was much more cheaply put together (even with inflation) and probably wasn’t that much worse than what they’ve ended up with spending 400m since

Maybe it is FFP preventing further signings or maybe that’s a lie to allow signings happen in the background but throwing money at a big manager is only going to work with a solid 2 year plan of how to mould the squad in his style, either through recruitment or training what they have, so that you’re seeing a better Everton in 2022 than you see today. I think there’s no quick fix and the directors are wise not to just throw more money out there for players.

No offense to Everton but the above list of players just doesn’t seem to fit a coherent transfer strategy. The fans are right to question what the strategy is

Backstreet Moyes

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho had fallen out with the majority of the squad by the time he left. He bought poorly, spent over 400m and was given time. Before him utd went for another world class manager van gaal. Again wasted money and destroyed the squad. No matter who comes in its going to be a building job. I would give ole some time to see what he can do. Still in the race for top 4

I am talking about after his second season when he finished second he wanted to invest in the squad I am not talking about when he lost the dressing room

Tell me exactly what Ole has done to deserve the chance to stay on and a build a team and please don't mention his signings as none of them have been great and he also left Fellaini and Herrera leave without getting in replacements and then you use a week midfield as a reason for poor results

brinty

Nuts102 wrote:

I am talking about after his second season when he finished second he wanted to invest in the squad I am not talking about when he lost the dressing room.

Tell me exactly what Ole has done to deserve the chance to stay on and a build a team and please don't mention his signings as none of them have been great and he also left Fellaini and Herrera leave without getting in replacements and then you use a week midfield as a reason for poor results

Don't do it to yourself mate, the goal posts are already shifting in the breeze

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

I said when he joined that anchelotti going there would end in failure. He needs a few years but that doesnt sound.too good early on. Sigurdson is one already who he wants out.

Ancellotti wants Siggy out**

Baggly

In a, frankly, SHOCKING turn of events, the votes of the POTY and YPOTY vote have gone thus:





Congrats to Sadio and Trent. Your prizes are in the post.

TitianGerm

Baggly wrote: »

In a, frankly, SHOCKING turn of events, the votes of the POTY and YPOTY vote have gone thus:





Congrats to Sadio and Trent. Your prizes are in the post.

Nice to see JLings get a few votes.

Baggly

Actually now that you mention it, that vote for Jesse in YPOTY should have been removed. Woops.

Shanotheslayer

Jesse more votes than goals and assists in 2019

Baggly

TitianGerm wrote: »

Nice to see JLings get a few votes.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Jesse more votes than goals and assists in 2019

What have i done.

TitianGerm

Baggly wrote: »

Actually now that you mention it, that vote for Jesse in YPOTY should have been removed. Woops.

That's not fair he's only a young lad. Plenty of time to improve his output.

bangkok

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Ancellotti wants Siggy out**

Thats what i said?

gimli2112

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/former-juventus-boss-massimiliano-allegri-holding-out-for-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-manchester-united-job/ar-BBYLhyK?ocid=spartanntp

pretty big improvement on Ole.
Utd is still an attractive job. It's a huge risk for managers as its ruined the reputations of some pretty heavy hitters. These lads have huge egos though and the opportunity to restore a sleeping giant is mana from heaven to them, I'd say.

Allegri's agent may of course be stirring the pot or maybe some journalist just made it up

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/former-juventus-boss-massimiliano-allegri-holding-out-for-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-manchester-united-job/ar-BBYLhyK?ocid=spartanntp

pretty big improvement on Ole.
Utd is still an attractive job. It's a huge risk for managers as its ruined the reputations of some pretty heavy hitters. These lads have huge egos though and the opportunity to restore a sleeping giant is mana from heaven to them, I'd say.

Allegri's agent may of course be stirring the pot or maybe some journalist just made it up

It's either him or Potch for me

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

It's either him or Potch for me

Genuinely curious; why?

Baggly

Baggly wrote: »

Genuinely curious; why?

I assume it's a direct question around the teams manager?
I'm not discussing the other known issues.

To answer why?
Because either one will be massive improvement on our current inexperienced, out of his depth manager.

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

I assume it's a direct question around the teams manager?
I'm not discussing the other known issues.

To answer why?
Because either one will be massive improvement on our current inexperienced, out of his depth manager.

Not having a dig, but there are lots of managers that might be an improvement. Why those two? Im genuinely curious. Im familar with Allegri's trophy haul and with Poch in general; but i dont know how suited they would be to Utd or vice versa.

Adamcp898

Baggly wrote: »

Not having a dig, but there are lots of managers that might be an improvement. Why those two? Im genuinely curious. Im familar with Allegri's trophy haul and with Poch in general; but i dont know how suited they would be to Utd or vice versa.

Allegri would require a bit more of a pivot from the club to make a good fit alright. But as for Poch; well he essentially did at Spurs what the club hierarchy (supposedly) want to happen at United i.e. build a team around a core group of young players that in 3-5 years will be able to compete with the top clubs. He has a track record of actually having done the thing that the club keep telling us they want to happen.

Baggly

Baggly wrote: »

Not having a dig, but there are lots of managers that might be an improvement. Why those two? Im genuinely curious. Im familar with Allegri's trophy haul and with Poch in general; but i dont know how suited they would be to Utd or vice versa.

For Potch, I'm be confident that he could still work well even under the terrible Board structure that Utd currently have. And he had spurs playing attractive football for many years.

For Allegri I'd be confident he could make us a solid unit and define a actual style of play. Something we currently don't have.
He's competitive too and has winning pedigree.

Baggly

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Allegri would require a bit more of a pivot from the club to make a good fit alright. But as for Poch; well he essentially did at Spurs what the club hierarchy (supposedly) want to happen at United i.e. build a team around a core group of young players that in 3-5 years will be able to compete with the top clubs. He has a track record of actually having done the thing that the club keep telling us they want to happen.

Deleted User wrote: »

For Potch, I'm be confident that he could still work well even under the terrible Board structure that Utd currently have. And he had spurs playing attractive football for many years.

For Allegri I'd be confident he could make us a solid unit and define a actual style of play. Something we currently don't have.
He's competitive too and has winning pedigree.

Agree re: Poch. Makes sense re: Allegri. Thanks lads.

bangkok

Baggly wrote: »

Agree re: Poch. Makes sense re: Allegri. Thanks lads.

I would rather poch if ole was sacked.

Allegri cant speak english and for some reason i feel it would be like another emery at arsenal

Baggly

If reports are to be believed, he is in the process of learning.

LineOfBeauty

Allegri has trophies to back up his resume, works well under a demanding owner, doesn't rock the boat. I think of him as a bit like a slightly updated Carlo Ancelotti.

He isn't what Man Utd need. They've had elements of their ideal coach. Moyes was young, but very clearly was not up to a job that big. Van Gaal had the philosophy and the reputation but age and his own attitude made it an unhappy alliance. Mourinho had the CV and the aura but he fell out with everyone and came across as yesterday's man. Ole has the fan support, but not the nous or track record to keep the job.

There's no manager that ticks all of the boxes, but the best bet is undoubtedly Potch. The only thing he really lacks is the CV but a Champions League final with Spurs shouldn't be overlooked, he ticks every other box.

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

Thats what i said?

Apologies, missed the word 'he' I thought you said Siggy wants out.

Lord TSC

Deleted User wrote: »

For Allegri I'd be confident he could make us a solid unit and define a actual style of play. Something we currently don't have.
He's competitive too and has winning pedigree.

My massive concern with Allegri (and I'll apologise if this post is ignorant of how he actually plays) is that I think he favours a more defensive style of football. Which was a massive critique people used against Jose during his entire tenure. A huge part of the reason Ole seemed to get the job was he spoke of a style which resonated with the fans; a high energy, high press team. Not saying he's actually achieved that, but its clearly what the fans want. If Allegri comes, I'd worry the fans will see him as Jose 2.0.

I'd still love him, personally. But I think he'd be a shift AGAIN in the philosophy of the club.

Poch, on the other hand, is the guy with a track record of doing what Ole and the club talks about, and if the club has decided to go with the "youth and development" philosophy, he ticks so many boxes.

BullBlackNova

It's hard to say with Allegri - he doesn't have a fundamental playing philosophy in the way that Guardiola or Klopp too. He tends to adapt to his surrounds, the players at his disposal.

At Juve, for eg, he tried to build on Conte's 3-5-2 foundation but moved off it once he found a four man defence would help the players to function better in Europe.

But, also, given that his managerial career has been quite busy to date, it's hard to know what he would bring. Juve was the only top side (Milan are a big side but in chaos for what seems like 10 years now, maybe even longer) that he managed so it's tough to know if his playing style was adapted or imposed at the club. If there was a bigger sample size, it'd be easier to tell.

I reckon if he was parachuted in today, there wouldnt be a fundamental shift in playing style as most of the United players seem to fit best in the system that is in use there. Maybe after some transfers, that would change but that's always a possibility.

Allegri is one of the best available coaches out there but it has been remarked on the Guardian podcast (i think) that he is more of a coach in a traditional sense rather than someone who would bring in a club-wide shift in focus, a holistic boss like Pep, Klopp, etc. Allegri would be more focused on the first team and the immediate job at hand.

Nothing wrong with that either, would depend on what the club wanted. Issue, I think, is that putting Allegri in place would be simply another short term solution unless a director of football was put in place too to implement that club wide shift/focus that is needed.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

I do not see Allegri as long term club building manager without the support of a proper support network at a club between the board and the football side of the club especially outside of Italy. He might be an instant hit manger for one or two seasons then he would done along the lines of Carlo, Conte and Jose.

Fitz*

Kane out for pretty much the rest of the season. Won't return to training until April. No doubt he will rush back from injury, again, and re-injure himself again. He will rush back to try get himself into form for the Euros.

He needs to learn that he can't play 90 mins for every single game and never be injured.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1215318747730403330

bangkok

Kane will be a big loss for spurs

Guy:Incognito

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Moyes was young, but very clearly was not up to a job that big. .

50 is hardly young for a manager.

Sharp MZ700

bangkok wrote: »

Kane will be a big loss for spurs

Same happened this time last year, Sonny stepped up to the plate brilliantly. He's a very different Sonny 12 months later though, the petulance across the whole team has crept into his game.

BullBlackNova

Sharp MZ700 wrote: »

Same happened this time last year, Sonny stepped up to the plate brilliantly. He's a very different Sonny 12 months later though, the petulance across the whole team has crept into his game.

Son was superb in Kane's absence last season.

This could go one of two ways IMO; it could be a repeat of that with Son doing well, Alli excelling through the centre, etc., or it could be a disaster because, as José acknowledged himself, his system doesn't function as well without a target man up front.

I know Kane isn't just a target man but his hold up play is excellent and it can bring others into the attack. That won't work as well with Son up there.

If it's an April return for Kane, it might be wise to delve into the transfer market. What's Llorente doing these days? He wasn't a bad alternative. Or Dzeko? Giroud?

bangkok

I see moyes is looking to bring back fellaini

brinty

Fellaini back to West Ham, I can imagine one person will be posting non stop about how bad he's playing even though he's at a different United