General Premier League Thread 2019-20

HalloweenJack

So he should put his family's health on the line just so he can fulfil his job?

Football is not that ****ing important. People who are looking out for their health should not be getting stick for it. Just because money talks and there is a financial need to get back to work doesn't automatically make everything safe.

Professional football is not any kind of essential service. It is entertainment and it is a risky one, given the relative close contact that it involves. People pointing that out are being reasonable.

kowloonkev

HalloweenJack wrote: »

So he should put his family's health on the line just so he can fulfil his job?

Football is not that ****ing important. People who are looking out for their health should not be getting stick for it. Just because money talks and there is a financial need to get back to work doesn't automatically make everything safe.

Professional football is not any kind of essential service. It is entertainment and it is a risky one, given the relative close contact that it involves. People pointing that out are being reasonable.

That's fine. Agree with you mostly. Just there seems to be a lot of people happy for others to go first. The threat of the virus will not go away for a long time to come. So he can just retire from the game and live in a bubble. If he ends up coming back after a few weeks or months then I will have a real issue with that and call it out for the cowardly action it is.

Lucas Hood

He's going to be tested twice weekly by his club. Where else would he get that.

HalloweenJack

kowloonkev wrote: »

That's fine. Agree with you mostly. Just there seems to be a lot of people happy for others to go first. The threat of the virus will not go away for a long time to come. So he can just retire from the game and live in a bubble. If he ends up coming back after a few weeks or months then I will have a real issue with that and call it out for the cowardly action it is.

He doesn't have the possibility of working from home, unlike a lot of us. If he turns up for his job, he knows he's going to be in contact with others. There is no way to get around it. He's assessed the risks and thinks its not worth it. I don't think that's cowardly; its smart.

How do you see it as cowardly?

PhilipsR

kowloonkev wrote: »

That's fine. Agree with you mostly. Just there seems to be a lot of people happy for others to go first. The threat of the virus will not go away for a long time to come. So he can just retire from the game and live in a bubble. If he ends up coming back after a few weeks or months then I will have a real issue with that and call it out for the cowardly action it is.

Surely in a few weeks If he sees that the regulations the PL have put in place are working and it’s significantly minimising the risk then he’ll come back. Everything at the minute is off the cuff so he may feel safer.

In a football sense, I’d wonder if he’ll be any use to Watford regardless. Isn’t he generally seen to play himself into fitness? Not sure there’ll be enough time for that.

yourdeadwright

PhilipsR wrote: »

Surely in a few weeks If he sees that the regulations the PL have put in place are working and it’s significantly minimising the risk then he’ll come back. Everything at the minute is off the cuff so he may feel safer.

In a football sense, I’d wonder if he’ll be any use to Watford regardless. Isn’t he generally seen to play himself into fitness? Not sure there’ll be enough time for that.

He clearly stated he won't return until there is "NO" risk attached ,
That why I was saying yesterday if he sticks to that he might have to retire,

kowloonkev

HalloweenJack wrote: »

He doesn't have the possibility of working from home, unlike a lot of us. If he turns up for his job, he knows he's going to be in contact with others. There is no way to get around it. He's assessed the risks and thinks its not worth it. I don't think that's cowardly; its smart.

How do you see it as cowardly?

I see it as cowardly to use others to test the waters. Either that's what he's doing or he should retire now because it's not going to be risk free for years.

Drumpot

kowloonkev wrote: »

That's fine. Agree with you mostly. Just there seems to be a lot of people happy for others to go first. The threat of the virus will not go away for a long time to come. So he can just retire from the game and live in a bubble. If he ends up coming back after a few weeks or months then I will have a real issue with that and call it out for the cowardly action it is.

Cowardly? Why is it cowardly? Really does seem to be a lot of quite misguided group think on this.

If a player waits to see how things pans out, let’s other players be guinea pigs and then when they see it’s being managed ok they return, I think that’s being clever.

He doesn’t have to go back, he can afford not to. Once he doesn’t demand or expect to be paid while everybody else has gone back , nobody should have any issues with his choices or what he says. It’s nobody else’s business what he does.

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

Cowardly? Why is it cowardly? Really does seem to be a lot of quite misguided group think on this.

If a player waits to see how things pans out, let’s other players be guinea pigs and then when they see it’s being managed ok they return, I think that’s being clever.

He doesn’t have to go back, he can afford not to. Once he doesn’t demand or expect to be paid while everybody else has gone back , nobody should have any issues with his choices or what he says. It’s nobody else’s business what he does.

100% agree that he should not be vilified for his own choice but at the same time I don't get the people making him some kind of brave social justice hero for footballers

If anyone in any other job in the world decided they didn't want to go back in none of us would have a problem , end of the day football is just his job ,

Its his life and completely up to him but if Watford refuse to pay him while he is away and everyone else is back then I can't see the problem with that either,

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

100% agree that he should not be vilified for his own choice but at the same time I don't get the people making him some kind of brave social justice hero for footballers

If anyone in any other job in the world decided they didn't want to go back in none of us would have a problem , end of the day football is just his job ,

Its his life and completely up to him but if Watford refuse to pay him while he is away and everyone else is back then I can't see the problem with that either,

I think it’s because it’s not easy to stick to your principles when there is pressure to go agaisnt want you believe. He’s not happy with going back for safety reasons. He’s objectively correct because everything we do and every decision we make on COVID is a best guess and an experiment until we actually know more about it.

I think living in the UK would cause even more concerns for me. Regardless of the authorities or who is managing the safety protocols, it’s possibly the country that has handled this virus the worst.

And then there is the evidence that shows that black people in UK are more likely to get a bad dose or die. Possibly linked to VIT D deficiency but it’s not definitively clear so not all footballers are going back with the same risks.

Having a young child also is a fair concern. And just because other footballers don’t think it’s a concern for their families doesnt change a thing. Some people prioritize family over jobs, I think that’s great.

Shame on the people giving him crap for doing what he thinks is best for his family.

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

I think it’s because it’s not easy to stick to your principles when there is pressure to go agaisnt want you believe. He’s not happy with going back for safety reasons. He’s objectively correct because everything we do and every decision we make on COVID is a best guess and an experiment until we actually know more about it.

I think living in the UK would cause even more concerns for me. Regardless of the authorities or who is managing the safety protocols, it’s possibly the country that has handled this virus the worst.

And then there is the evidence that shows that black people in UK are more likely to get a bad dose or die. Possibly linked to VIT D deficiency but it’s not definitively clear so not all footballers are going back with the same risks.

Having a young child also is a fair concern. And just because other footballers don’t think it’s a concern for their families doesnt change a thing. Some people prioritize family over jobs, I think that’s great.

Shame on the people giving him crap for doing what he thinks is best for his family.

His life so his choice to do whatever it is that suits him,

People get way to caught up with footballers personal life's,

Like when a player wants to leave a club and join another there is no other walk of life that people wouldn't understand a guy getting a better job that suits him and his family,

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His life so his choice to do whatever it is that suits him,

People get way to caught up with footballers personal life's,

Like when a player wants to leave a club and join another there is no other walk of life that people wouldn't understand a guy getting a better job that suits him and his family,

Yeh, footballers are not people to us, they are play things to entertain us.

It’s understandable because we don’t know the players personally, only what they give to our clubs and that’s what most of us only really care about, sure why else should we even think about players?. Supposedly Pogba is a nice guy with other players, I dont care because I think he’s not been giving United a bang for it’s buck and that’s more important to me in the footballing context.

In the case of Deeney, lot of people don’t want anything to jeopardise the return of football so will attack anybody who threatens it.

The_Kew_Tour

You can see why some players might stay quiet after the abuse Brighton players and Club got last week for failed tests.

Between Conspiracy and abuse it's easy see why some just wont say anything.

Not worth that.

Rock77

kowloonkev wrote: »

I see it as cowardly to use others to test the waters. Either that's what he's doing or he should retire now because it's not going to be risk free for years.

To be fair Deeney isn’t using anyone to test the water, everyone has the choice to play or not. He is not making anyone go back, he is simply saying he is not going back. I think your dislike for Deeney is clouding your judgement on this one.

c.p.w.g.w

Rock77 wrote: »

To be fair Deeney isn’t using anyone to test the water, everyone has the choice to play or not. He is not making anyone go back, he is simply saying he is not going back. I think your dislike for Deeney is clouding your judgement on this one.

Well in fairness Deeney is a repugnant piece of ****

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-18584603

Shanotheslayer

"Well guys, I lost this argument, so here's something a footballer did 8 years ago to reiterate my point of how much people dislike him"

Literally has nothing to do with the point at hand.

It's like when Collymore discusses racism and somebody says he beat his misses. Silly carry on.

Drumpot

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Well in fairness Deeney is a repugnant piece of ****

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-18584603

Which actually proves Rock77s point.

People attacking the person rather then what they are saying or even trying to understand why they are saying it ... We shouldn’t be surprised with that sort of response in here :pac:

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

And just because other footballers don’t think it’s a concern for their families doesnt change a thing. Some people prioritize family over jobs, I think that’s great.

Shame on the people giving him crap for doing what he thinks is best for his family.

In the interests of accuracy, his second family.

He left his wife and kids for a model.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6246003/Watford-star-Troy-Deeney-leaves-wife-29-model-new-girlfriend.html

Which is no crime, and I agree that he need not play as long as he doesn't expect to get paid.

Shanotheslayer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the interests of accuracy, his second family.

He left his wife and kids for a model.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6246003/Watford-star-Troy-Deeney-leaves-wife-29-model-new-girlfriend.html

Which is no crime, and I agree that he need not play as long as he doesn't expect to get paid.

Which has zero revelance. Comparing prioritising family due to Covid19

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

In the interests of accuracy, his second family.

He left his wife and kids for a model.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6246003/Watford-star-Troy-Deeney-leaves-wife-29-model-new-girlfriend.html

Which is no crime, and I agree that he need not play as long as he doesn't expect to get paid.

We all judge players we don’t know or understand, I’ve done it myself. But it’s fair for others who don’t know that stuff or don’t care , to point out that a person being wrong or horrible in their past doesn’t invalidate things they do in the present.

Even if he just doesn’t want to play cause he doesn’t think it’s safe, I think that on its own is fine, again once he doesn’t expect to get paid.

c.p.w.g.w

Drumpot wrote: »

Which actually proves Rock77s point.

People attacking the person rather then what they are saying or even trying to understand why they are saying it ... We shouldn’t be surprised with that sort of response in here :pac:

My post was more in line with disliking Deeney is very much understandable...

I have zero issue with him not playing for Watford he can make that choice and his employer has a duty of care for his safety...

I can see the return of football being very stop/start affair...Already in Germany a few players tested positive after last weekend

Shanotheslayer

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

My post was more in line with disliking Deeney is very much understandable...

Disliking someone is fine. However thinking everything somebody does is wrong because you dislike somebody is bias

Shanotheslayer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Which has zero revelance. Comparing prioritising family due to Covid19

My point was a response to the "some people prioritise family over jobs", as if Deeney is a better family man than players returning to work.

Both claims are equally relevant or irrelevant. As I said, I think he is entitled to not play if he is willing to not get paid. We should neither lionise nor condemn his family values.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

My point was a response to the "some people prioritise family over jobs", as if Deeney is a better family man than players returning to work.

Both claims are equally relevant or irrelevant. As I said, I think he is entitled to not play if he is willing to not get paid. We should neither lionise nor condemn his family values.

This is true to a degree. But I shouldn’t have to defend somebody, that none of us know intimately, on these forums. I’ve done things when I was younger that I’m not proud of but I refute anybody to say I’m not a family person because I’ve made mistakes or hurt others at times, I’d be surprised if most people haven’t done things in their lives that hurt others, but they were fortunate enough to not be a public figure.

I was only responding to other people getting angry at Deeney and trying to add some balance by looking at it from different angle which includes addressing individuals own bias . I don’t know why Deeney doesn’t want to play but I don’t presume it’s for any of the reasons anybody has said on this thread.

c.p.w.g.w

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Well in fairness Deeney is a repugnant piece of ****

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-18584603

Definition of Repugnant
adjective
1.
extremely distasteful; unacceptable.
2.
in conflict or incompatible with.

One man suffered a broken jaw and another required 20 stitches as a result of the brawl in Broad Street.

Seriously????? A Yellow Card

LuckyLloyd

I remain confused as to the level of importance or relevance placed on Deeny's stance. So he isn't playing, that's his choice. The vast majority of players are back training. Most players will want to work and get paid. We're moving on here. A few players not playing ball is worth noting I suppose, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Drumpot

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Definition of Repugnant
adjective
1.
extremely distasteful; unacceptable.
2.
in conflict or incompatible with.



Seriously?????

The action of kicking a person in the head and causing that sort of harm is repugnant. Do you define people by just the bad things they have done in their lives or the balance of bad and good ? I would of been more like this when I was younger, but have tried (not always successful )to mature out of that linear and rigid mindset. Since I dont know what good/bad things Deeney has done his whole life, I wouldn't be as quick to label him a repugnant person.

Most people do good and bad things throughout their lives and alot of people lack the self awareness or a capacity for reflection to even know when they are hurting others. Quite often, people love to pick out others flaws in a sub conscious effort to ignore their own shortcomings. In short, if we all spent more time focusing on our own shortcomings and in how we treat others, the world would be a far better place, then it is if we spend more time putting others down.

c.p.w.g.w

Drumpot wrote: »

The action of kicking a person in the head and causing that sort of harm is repugnant. Do you define people by just the bad things they have done in their lives or the balance of bad and good ? I would of been more like this when I was younger, but have tried (not always successful )to mature out of that linear and rigid mindset. Since I dont know what good/bad things Deeney has done his whole life, I wouldn't be as quick to label him a repugnant person.

Most people do good and bad things throughout their lives and alot of people lack the self awareness or a capacity for reflection to even know when they are hurting others. Quite often, people love to pick out others flaws in a sub conscious effort to ignore their own shortcomings. In short, if we all spent more time focusing on our own shortcomings and in how we treat others, the world would be a far better place, then it is if we spend more time putting others down.

This post was in response to the yellow card i got for it...

Yes everyone does good & bad things...but breaking someone's jaw is pretty fcuking bad

Drumpot

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

This post was in response to the yellow card i got for it...

Oh my bad . . I didnt see that . . Sorry . . :pac:

Shanotheslayer

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

This post was in response to the yellow card i got for it...

Yes everyone does good & bad things...but breaking someone's jaw is pretty fcuking bad

Don't want to take off topic too much but just a heads up incase you wanted to take it to DRP. Insulting a player is a breach of charter. More so you referred to him as I can only assume a piece of Sh1t which was starred.

Just a heads up not having a go just to save you some hassle in future!

Apologies for slightly OT

Drumpot

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Yes everyone does good & bad things...but breaking someone's jaw is pretty fcuking bad

I agree breaking somebodys Jaw is terrible, I am not excusing that.

I have to be careful here, because there was a situation awhile ago (with Ed Woodward) where I didn't really clarify my thoughts well to the point that people thought I was happy to see him and his family tormented/attacked. I didn't want that , what I meant was that fan passion regularly leads to violence/aggresion and if you are exploiting that passion for money you cant be surprised if some of it spills over onto your doorstep. Nobody cares about the culture of violence and toxic fan rivalry (that I see at every game I attend in Old Trafford) but when one CEO gets caught up in it , all of a sudden everybody's full of righteous outrage. Really is something to behold.

I regularly see alot of contradictions in the values in football , especially from fans. One of them is what the sporting community will ignore and what the sport will call out as wrong. So I see a similar thing here. People want sport to start back up and attack the individual, rather then look at the bigger picture which is that these are exceptional times and there are no guarantees with anybody going back to work.

ShamoBuc

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Seriously????? A Yellow Card

Mod Note
If you have an issue, you may PM me.
Do not Quote this or Reply to this, in Thread.

Moving on...

kowloonkev

Drumpot wrote: »

Cowardly? Why is it cowardly? Really does seem to be a lot of quite misguided group think on this.

If a player waits to see how things pans out, let’s other players be guinea pigs and then when they see it’s being managed ok they return, I think that’s being clever.

What do you mean group think?

Have you ever been in a dressing room? Or in any environment with colleagues or classmates?

If he's getting paid (which I presume he is) then his teammates aren't going to be happy and if he comes back after a few weeks once his mates have cleared the way then that's cowardly in my book. Yes it might be clever too, but it's not the way we're expected to act as part of a team.

I don't really think football should be coming back. I don't even want to watch it in empty stadiums. But if it's allowed back then it's allowed back and like other non essential businesses the employees have to deal with it, and to be fair the vast majority are getting on with it.

Iused2likebusts

kowloonkev wrote: »

What do you mean group think?

Have you ever been in a dressing room? Or in any environment with colleagues or classmates?

If he's getting paid (which I presume he is) then his teammates aren't going to be happy and if he comes back after a few weeks once his mates have cleared the way then that's cowardly in my book. Yes it might be clever too, but it's not the way we're expected to act as part of a team.

I don't really think football should be coming back. I don't even want to watch it in empty stadiums. But if it's allowed back then it's allowed back and like other non essential businesses the employees have to deal with it, and to be fair the vast majority are getting on with it.

Everyone has different circumstances to deal with so everyone cant react the same.

ShamoBuc

kowloonkev wrote: »

What do you mean group think?

Have you ever been in a dressing room? Or in any environment with colleagues or classmates?

If he's getting paid (which I presume he is) then his teammates aren't going to be happy and if he comes back after a few weeks once his mates have cleared the way then that's cowardly in my book. Yes it might be clever too, but it's not the way we're expected to act as part of a team.

I don't really think football should be coming back. I don't even want to watch it in empty stadiums. But if it's allowed back then it's allowed back and like other non essential businesses the employees have to deal with it, and to be fair the vast majority are getting on with it.

If he was home alone and wanted to stay there while other players 'have cleared the way' then you might have some justification.
But given the situation he is in, I highly doubt the Watford dressing room or anyone else will be chatting about him as a coward.

Shanotheslayer

Everton interested in Lallana apparently.

Absolute Everton signing if ever. Old midfielder and gets injured frequently.

martyos121

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Everton interested in Lallana apparently.

Absolute Everton signing if ever. Old midfielder and gets injured frequently.

Can’t see him making that switch myself, but when he is fit he’d be your best midfielder IMO. Agree that he is very injury prone though, still a great Bosman for nearly any team in Europe especially in this market.

ShamoBuc

martyos121 wrote: »

Can’t see him making that switch myself, but when he is fit he’d be your best midfielder IMO. Agree that he is very injury prone though, still a great Bosman for nearly any team in Europe especially in this market.

It would be a pretty strange move for him. Maybe not uprooting family, house etc could play a part but don't think it'll happen.

Fitz*

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Everton interested in Lallana apparently.

Absolute Everton signing if ever. Old midfielder and gets injured frequently.

I'd say that Bournemouth might be a better fit, for both parties. Move back home for him would be nice. I think he also did some work with the Bournemouth academy during the lockdown, via zoom.

Cantona's Collars

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Everton interested in Lallana apparently.

Absolute Everton signing if ever. Old midfielder and gets injured frequently.

He'd return to be only able to play for 70 odd minutes before being knackered, before he joined Liverpool he was a cert to be subbed off early and being burnt out. Whatever they did at Liverpool he was able to run like the energiser bunny even in the 90th minute.

Fitz*

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

He'd return to be only able to play for 70 odd minutes before being knackered, before he joined Liverpool he was a cert to be subbed off early and being burnt out. Whatever they did at Liverpool he was able to run like the energiser bunny even in the 90th minute.

A couple summers after he was bought, Liverpool brought in Andreas Kornmayer as Head of Fitness & Conditioning. His previous role was at Bayern Munich for 15 years.

Klopp's first game has that famous image of Lallana falling into Klopp's arms, after being subbed off, because he had run himself into the ground in a bid to impress Klopp.

Edit: here it is

Shanotheslayer

martyos121 wrote: »

Can’t see him making that switch myself, but when he is fit he’d be your best midfielder IMO. Agree that he is very injury prone though, still a great Bosman for nearly any team in Europe especially in this market.

Andre Gomes may have something to say about that

He'd be a squad player tbh mostly due to his fitness and injures. Not a good signing for Everton especially when we need to improve our starting XI.

Buying someone with that much injury history would be a terrible decision imo

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

He'd return to be only able to play for 70 odd minutes before being knackered, before he joined Liverpool he was a cert to be subbed off early and being burnt out. Whatever they did at Liverpool he was able to run like the energiser bunny even in the 90th minute.

Probably the taste of major honours helped motivation...

OwaynOTT

I seem to recall him being subbed off quite a bit, with fears over his baboon heart.
Thankfully he soon turned into a bunny that was always injured.

davemckenna25

6 wrote: »

Probably the taste of major honours helped motivation...

In 5 years with Liverpool he has 1 major honour, the Champions league last year.

I think you may look for another reason........

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

A couple summers after he was bought, Liverpool brought in Andreas Kornmayer as Head of Fitness & Conditioning. His previous role was at Bayern Munich for 15 years.

Klopp's first game has that famous image of Lallana falling into Klopp's arms, after being subbed off, because he had run himself into the ground in a bid to impress Klopp.

Edit: here it is

Was a brilliant player for Klopp at the beginning. Injuries hampered him though the, as well as better players coming in.

davemckenna25

davemckenna25 wrote: »

In 5 years with Liverpool he has 1 major honour, the Champions league last year.

I think you may look for another reason........

Biggest prize in club football.

He'll have the second biggest one possible for him in a few months.

If you can't be motivated by the two biggest achievable club trophies you might as well not be in the game.

davemckenna25

6 wrote: »

Biggest prize in club football.

He'll have the second biggest one possible for him in a few months.

If you can't be motivated by the two biggest achievable club trophies you might as well not be in the game.

So, one major trophy and he had to wait 5 years for it.

Doesn't really stand up to your claim of motivated by the taste of major honours....

Anyhow, you are free to believe what ever you like....

davemckenna25

davemckenna25 wrote: »

So, one major trophy and he had to wait 5 years for it.

Doesn't really stand up to your claim of motivated by the taste of major honours....

Anyhow, you are free to believe what ever you like....

Two come August all going well. Great haul for him.

Would be a decent free transfer for sure.

Agent Coulson

6 wrote: »

Probably the taste of major honours helped motivation...

He will leave with a Premier League title, Champions League title, Club World Cup title, European Super Cup title as well as a Champions League, Europa League and League Cup runners up medal not bad going at all.