General Premier League Thread 2019-20

ShamoBuc

Panthro wrote: »

Rices disallowed goal was a farce of a decision

Cant understand why you think it was a farce.
Var saw it and applied the rule, correct decision. Very simple really.

Maybe you think the handball rule is a farce? But the decision was correct.

ShamoBuc

Panthro wrote: »

Law needs to be scrapped.

The rule, it was brought in to get rid of the Grey area of intentional or unintentional.

Would you go back to the old way instead, or something different?

tanko

Jaysus, Danny "for me" Murphy talks such rubbish.
He thinks Aubamayang shouldn't have been sent off because the slow motion made it look worse than it was when the Crystal Palace player was lucky not to get his ankle broken and thinks that West Hams goal should have been allowed when it's clear cut that it wasn't a goal under current rules.
He's worse than stupid.

TitianGerm

Panthro wrote: »

Rices disallowed goal was a farce of a decision

Are you familiar with the handball rule introduced during the summer? This isn't something new at this stage.

bangkok

FitzShane wrote: »

You still won't reply to me either Bangkok, it's a sure sign you're talking crap.

Hypothetically, if Brighton & Man City drew, Liverpool would have won the league in an amazing title race between 2 brilliant teams. And then a European Cup to make it a league and European cup double.

Nothing would have changed in Liverpool's performance all season long. 97 points to win a league title & a European Cup. .

But you are saying they are not great because they didn't win a trophy, but if City had drew then Liverpool would be great because they won a trophy. The very same 97 points, and a European cup. No difference in performance.

Just shows up how much crap is being typed. I'm sure you'll ignore this or move them goalposts. Dodge like any child would do. The bitterness is glowing.

"Hypothetically"

"If"

come on, how am i talking crap, when you are using them words.

and also, i never said they are not a great side, i have said numerous times they are a fantastic side, but they cant be considered one of the all time great sides yet. not near the united sides of 99 and 08 yet

Zeek12

ArielAtom wrote: »

So by one posters reckoning the Premier league is sh1t. Funny that 4 premier league teams made the two finals of Europe’s premier competitions last year. But hey, if it makes you feel better, craic on. It keeps me amused on my travels reading the rankings on here. I’m a championship club supporter btw😉

English teams were WAY more dominant in Europe in the mid 2000s through to the early 2010s.

The CL Final was contested by an English team (or teams) 7 years out of 8 - between 2005 and 2012.

In 2007, and again in 2008, 3 of the last 4 teams in the CL were English.

There hasn't been anything close to that type of English domination in Europe since.

Fitz*

bangkok wrote: »

"Hypothetically"

"If"

come on, how am i talking crap, when you are using them words.

and also, i never said they are not a great side, i have said numerous times they are a fantastic side, but they cant be considered one of the all time great sides yet. not near the united sides of 99 and 08 yet

You said that a teams greatness was based on trophies and nothing else, right here.

bangkok wrote: »

Of course trophies. What else would it be based on?

So how does a trophy change the 'greatness' of the team in the above scenario.

How is Team A that played 38 & won 30 better than Team B that played 38 & won 30? And I'm not telling you which one won a trophy. Which team is better? Seeing as you said that a teams greatness is only defined by trophies.

PhlegmyMoses

FitzShane wrote: »

You said that a teams greatness was based on trophies and nothing else, right here.




So how does a trophy change the 'greatness' of the team in the above scenario.

How is Team A that played 38 and won 30 better than Team B that played 38 and won 30? And I'm not telling you which one won a trophy. Which team is better? Seeing as you said that a teams greatness is only defined by trophies.

Not defending him, because his point is dumb by and large. But there were regularly times when Ferguson was playing second string teams in the last 5 or fewer games because the league was won and would drop a few points here and there. The context of the league itself is important. There would also be far more rotation to manage a full season of domestic and europe. Clubs 10/15 years ago didnt have squads like they have today. The science behind fitness wasnt the same either.

Fitz*

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Not defending him, because his point is dumb by and large. But there were regularly times when Ferguson was playing second string teams in the last 5 or fewer games because the league was won and would drop a few points here and there. The context of the league itself is important. There would also be far more rotation to manage a full season of domestic and europe. Clubs 10/15 years ago didnt have squads like they have today. The science behind fitness wasnt the same either.

It wasn't so much the points total at all, it's more than the same team could have won the title without changing any of their results or performances. The last 60(?) mins of an opposing teams game decided the title in the end, kind of, in the greatest (arguably) title race in PL history in terms of quality from 2 brilliant teams.

I don't understand how a team can be called great if the perform that way for a season, but can also be called not great if they perform the exact same way for the season. In the context of last season. It's ridiculous.

bangkok

FitzShane wrote: »

It wasn't so much the points total at all, it's more than the same team could have won the title without changing any of their results or performances. The last 60(?) mins of an opposing teams game decided the title in the end, kind of, in the greatest (arguably) title race in PL history in terms of quality from 2 brilliant teams.

I don't understand how a team can be called great if the perform that way for a season, but can also be called not great if they perform the exact same way for the season. It's ridiculous.

you are getting your knickers in a twist now.

who said they weren't a great team? the whole argument was a poster said they are the best english side ever, i said they cannot be considered that until they have dominated the league and won multiple league titles like teams from the past

Panthro

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The rule, it was brought in to get rid of the Grey area of intentional or unintentional.

Would you go back to the old way instead, or something different?

I'd prefer it if they scrap the current law and revert back to the old way.

Zeek12

bangkok wrote: »

look, they are a fantastic team, will prob have the league won by March, but until they do it for 3,4,5 years then i dont think they can be considered one of the best sides in history

Very reasonable point.

United team of 2000 won the league by almost 20 points. So what?
That season is rarely talked about. It was basically a procession to the title with little real competition. And was quite boring for a lot of fans.

What is talked about is the same side winning a unique treble the year before.
And they backed that up by winning the PL title 4 years out of 5.

Top trophy winning consistency is the true sign of brilliance.

This is it

Zeek12 wrote: »

Very reasonable point.

United team of 2000 won the league by almost 20 points. So what?
That season is rarely talked about. It was basically a procession to the title with little real competition. And was quite boring for a lot of fans.

What is talked about is the same side winning a unique treble the year before.
And they backed that up by winning the PL title 4 years out of 5.

Top trophy winning consistency is the true sign of brilliance.

Champions League and a PL is a great start

Zeek12

This is it wrote: »

Champions League and a PL is a great start

It's a good start. (Its only great if you benchmark greatness at that level).

And you haven't won them in the same season.

Loafing Oaf

I tend to think that for most elite sports, the best current team or player is generally the best of all time, as standards are going up all the time. So if you could send the current Liverpool team back in a fleet of Deloreans to whenever the other GOAT candidates were at their peak, they would probably beat them all fairly handily...with the possible exception of 2018 Man City...

This is it

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's a good start. (Its only great if you benchmark greatness at that level).

And you haven't won them in the same season.

Great

I haven't won anything

Zeek12

tanko wrote: »

Jaysus, Danny "for me" Murphy talks such rubbish.
He thinks Aubamayang shouldn't have been sent off because the slow motion made it look worse than it was when the Crystal Palace player was lucky not to get his ankle broken and thinks that West Hams goal should have been allowed when it's clear cut that it wasn't a goal under current rules.
He's worse than stupid.

Can't understand why he's on MOTD so much.

The dour personality is one thing.
But the analysis from him is just so poor.

bangkok

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I tend to think that for most elite sports, the best current team or player is generally the best of all time, as standards are going up all the time. So if you could send the current Liverpool team back in a fleet of Deloreans to whenever the other GOAT candidates were at their peak, they would probably beat them all fairly handily...with the possible exception of 2018 Man City...

I would fancy keane and scholes over henderson and ox

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

i have reply twice to your post. what else do you want me to answer?

Apologies. I may have missed your apology post but I don't believe I did.

When did United have "Plenty' of clean sheets?

Form my previous post I posted statistics refruting this. So how you can claim they had ' Plenty' is still astonishing

Shanotheslayer

Zeek12 wrote: »

Very reasonable point.

United team of 2000 won the league by almost 20 points. So what?
That season is rarely talked about. It was basically a procession to the title with little real competition. And was quite boring for a lot of fans.

What is talked about is the same side winning a unique treble the year before.
And they backed that up by winning the PL title 4 years out of 5.

Top trophy winning consistency is the true sign of brilliance.

So the Liverpool team that are smashing the city team that smashed records the previous two years is forgotten about?


Context matters. That city team was unbelievable. The fact Liverpool are matching is absolute riduclous.

I just don't understand how actually football fans dispute it.

I genuinely believe the only fans that dispute are biased and don't actually enjoy football.

Zeek12

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

So the Liverpool team that are smashing the city team that smashed records the previous two years is forgotten about?

Where did I say they’ll be forgotten?

j8wk2feszrnpao

This is it wrote: »

Champions League and a PL is a great start

European Super Cup and World Club Cup as well.
PL is pretty much wrapped up, and will be soon.
4 trophies in less than 12 months (and could still win the FA Cup and/or CL).
Great start.

Utopia Parkway

The absurd points total this Liverpool side have been racking up over 2 seasons now along with the fact that they are European Champions already means they are already well up there amongst the greatest Prem sides ever (provided they win the league this season).

The days of managers hanging around for Fergie/Wenger lengths of time are over sadly.

happyoutscan

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's a good start. (Its only great if you benchmark greatness at that level).

And you haven't won them in the same season.

This post should be in the humour thread.

ArielAtom

bangkok wrote: »

i never said it was sh1t, but the quality isnt as good as it used to be.

remember when utd had keane scholes midfield, arsenal had vieria and petit, liverpool gerrard, alonso mascherano, chelsea, lampard essien. midfield players who were much better than any of the midfielders in the league right now

So it’s just better midfielders? It’s a team sport, that includes all positions. The game has moved on from lads kicking lumps out of each other, even the keepers play a bit of ball now😉. I’m not saying I don’t miss the days of crunching tackles, but your opinion is just that, an opinion.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I tend to think that for most elite sports, the best current team or player is generally the best of all time, as standards are going up all the time...

And yet so many others say "Brazil 1970/Pele" in response to the whole greatest team/player debate...

Fitz*

Players are fitter and stronger these days, they have evolved as athletes. They get up and down the flanks more, perform more sprints and run a lot more in the
game. Constant high energy pressing is a feature of the game now that wasn't seen 20 years ago I'm fairly sure this is backed up stastically too..

A top team from the current era would beat any team from 10 years ago, just like any team from 2010 would beat a 90s team who would beat an 80s team and how a team from 2030 would beat them all.

Sport science & data analysis is making players better.

Not doubting their qualities at all but can you imagine Keane or Scholes trying to tackle KDB and win the ball off of him without being sent off, or chasing him & Silva aound for 90 mins with the workrate and constant pressing being put in. Look at the scoring output of Beckham & Overmars compared to Salah, Mane & Sterling, added to their incredible work rate and constant sprinting forwards and backwards. Aguero can occupy 2 defenders on his own, compared to back in the 90s when it took 2 forwards to do it. The full back position has evolved more than any in the game and the flying full backs with their constant attacking and crossing in the attacking areas but still able to be in position 15 seconds later to defend and ready to go again instantly.

Sure, older teams would win a physical battle over the modern teams but then the modern teams could pass any team off of the park, or out work them, or out run them.

Never thought I'd see a discussion of a current Liverpool team being the best ever. Personally I think it's premature, but even that's it up for discussion is wonderful.

What a time to be alive.

beggars_bush

6 wrote: »

Never thought I'd see a discussion of a current Liverpool team being the best ever. Personally I think it's premature, but even that's it up for discussion is wonderful.

What a time to be alive.

Don't know how they are all staying injury free.
Plus all the VAR decisions help

Let's see them win 2 in a row and a few cups.

The league is quite poor this year with so many teams very poorly managed and coached

8-10

beggars_bush wrote: »

Don't know how they are all staying injury free.
Plus all the VAR decisions help

Let's see them win 2 in a row and a few cups.

The league is quite poor this year with so many teams very poorly managed and coached

And that's bingo!

Quazzie

How can a team with Oxelaide Chamberlain in it be considered the best ever? Seriously. Ever?
The best this year? Sure is looking like it. Ever? Not within a country mile. This nonsense is why people hate Liverpool fans.

Father Hernandez

beggars_bush wrote: »

Don't know how they are all staying injury free.
Plus all the VAR decisions help

Let's see them win 2 in a row and a few cups.

The league is quite poor this year with so many teams very poorly managed and coached

You can only play what's in front of you and sounds a little like playing down what they have done.

Read somewhere last week or so that if you seen this happening in FIFA or Football Manager you'd think little of it cause it's too unrealistic.

2 points dropped from 21 games is incredible, Liverpool currently cruising to the title never seen before. I absolutely hate it but credit where credit's due.

This is it

beggars_bush wrote: »

Don't know how they are all staying injury free.

Hard to take someone's opinion serious when so ill-informed.

Allison
Matip
Lovren
Fabinho
Milner
Keira
Ox

This is it

Quazzie wrote: »

How can a team with Oxelaide Chamberlain in it be considered the best ever? Seriously. Ever?
The best this year? Sure is looking like it. Ever? Not within a country mile. This nonsense is why people hate Liverpool fans.

He's doing pretty well since moving to a decent team, injuries aside.

Quazzie

This is it wrote: »

He's doing pretty well since moving to a decent team, injuries aside.

He sure is, and he might (most probably) have improved as a player also, but when you look at the great teams you see brilliant world class players scattered throughout, and Ox, with all his improvements, will never be that.

Also, just to note he has played with decent teams before, but imo was never used correctly, so it seams it's the new manager who is the major difference.

I'm just using Ox as an example by the way before someone gets fixated with that,

niallo27

Quazzie wrote: »

How can a team with Oxelaide Chamberlain in it be considered the best ever? Seriously. Ever?
The best this year? Sure is looking like it. Ever? Not within a country mile. This nonsense is why people hate Liverpool fans.

Robertson was playing for Hull a few years back and look at it him now, sometimes your limited by the players around you. Ox is the same, it proves that you come from a **** side and transform yourself. He is a brilliant squad player to have.

niallo27

Quazzie wrote: »

He sure is, and he might (most probably) have improved as a player also, but when you look at the great teams you see brilliant world class players scattered throughout, and Ox, with all his improvements, will never be that.

Also, just to note he has played with decent teams before, but imo was never used correctly, so it seams it's the new manager who is the major difference.

I'm just using Ox as an example by the way before someone gets fixated with that,

Name any great side through the years though and I'll name ya some very average players that played a lot of games for them. Look at john o shea or park for the great utd teams.

Salary Negotiator

Quazzie wrote: »

He sure is, and he might (most probably) have improved as a player also, but when you look at the great teams you see brilliant world class players scattered throughout, and Ox, with all his improvements, will never be that.

You also see quite a few squad players who are not world class, Nicky Butt and Jesper Blomqvist started the 1999 CL final.

TitianGerm

Quazzie wrote: »

How can a team with Oxelaide Chamberlain in it be considered the best ever? Seriously. Ever?
The best this year? Sure is looking like it. Ever? Not within a country mile. This nonsense is why people hate Liverpool fans.

So a rotational CM now dictates if a team is great/good or not now? When was that decided?

Liverpool best midfield on paper is Fabhino, Kieta and Henderson.

Quazzie

TitianGerm wrote: »

So a rotational CM now dictates if a team is great/good or not now? When was that decided?

Liverpool best midfield on paper is Fabhino, Kieta and Henderson.

I did say it was just an example as I knew some would fixate.

Ok. Henderson then. Let's say hypothetically he's a free agent this summer. Are Barcelona or Real Madrid fighting each other to sign him? Simple question.

TitianGerm

Quazzie wrote: »

I did say it was just an example as I knew some would fixate.

Ok. Henderson then. Let's say hypothetically he's a free agent this summer. Are Barcelona or Real Madrid fighting each other to sign him? Simple question.

The way he's playing I wouldn't be surprised if another big team came in for him.

You probably haven't watched enough Liverpool games to see how well he's played for the last two years.

8-10

Quazzie wrote: »

I did say it was just an example as I knew some would fixate.

Ok. Henderson then. Let's say hypothetically he's a free agent this summer. Are Barcelona or Real Madrid fighting each other to sign him? Simple question.

He's 30 this summer and English. Neither of those teams buy English players of that age. They wouldn't be signing Lallana or Milner either for the same reason but you can say that to all English 30-yr old midfielders of the past.

If he was 26/27, yes they'd be interested for sure

Now if Fabinho, Wijnaldum or Keïta were available on a free this summer I could see them being interested

Guy:Incognito

Panthro wrote: »

I'd prefer it if they scrap the current law and revert back to the old way.

Im not a fan of this handball rule, but reverting back may well not change some decisions.

The thing about intent is it leaves it open to interpretation . Have a look at the page with the chat about it from yesterday. Thecitizen reckons Rice handled it deliberately. So , if the person making the decision at the time is of his opinion, then the goal would have been disallowed anyway with the old rules.

8-10

This is it wrote: »

Hard to take someone's opinion serious when so ill-informed.

Allison
Matip
Lovren
Fabinho
Milner
Keira
Ox

Clyne
Shaqiri

noodler

Quazzie wrote: »

I did say it was just an example as I knew some would fixate.

Ok. Henderson then. Let's say hypothetically he's a free agent this summer. Are Barcelona or Real Madrid fighting each other to sign him? Simple question.

Jesus, are people still questioning Henderson's worth?

I thought that was 3/4 years ago.

The idea of measuring a player's worth by whether or not they are fashionable enough for Barca/Madrid to sign them is mental.

8-10

Quazzie wrote: »

He sure is, and he might (most probably) have improved as a player also, but when you look at the great teams you see brilliant world class players scattered throughout

Ballon d'Or 2019:

1st – Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona)

2nd – Virgil van Dijk (Liverpool)

3rd – Cristiano Ronaldo (Juventus)

4th – Sadio Mané (Liverpool)

5th – Mohamed Salah (Liverpool)

6th – Kylian Mbappé (PSG)

7th – Alisson (Liverpool)

FIFA Best 2019:

1st – Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona)

2nd – Virgil van Dijk (Liverpool)

3rd – Cristiano Ronaldo (Juventus)

4th – Mohamed Salah (Liverpool)

5th – Sadio Mané (Liverpool)

FIFA Best Goalkeeper 2019:

Alisson (Liverpool)

Nobody's here saying that Oxlade Chamberlain is world class but that doesn't prove anything about Liverpool having World Class players spread throughout the team.

Drumpot

Opens general premier league thread 2019/2020



“Hmmm, maybe the thread title is incorrect and this is really Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2019/2020” :pac:

Quazzie

8-10 wrote: »

Ballon d'Or 2019:



FIFA Best 2019:



FIFA Best Goalkeeper 2019:



Nobody's here saying that Oxlade Chamberlain is world class but that doesn't prove anything about Liverpool having World Class players spread throughout the team.

I never said they don't have world class players. They have several. I'm just responding to the "best team ever" tag some have given. It's far too premature to make that statement.

eagle eye

Quazzie wrote:

How can a team with Oxelaide Chamberlain in it be considered the best ever? Seriously. Ever? The best this year? Sure is looking like it. Ever? Not within a country mile. This nonsense is why people hate Liverpool fans.

Oxlade Chamberlain is similar to Hleb or Keita in that 08/09 Barcelona team.
Lots of players ahead of him for starts when everybody is fit.

8-10

Quazzie wrote: »

I never said they don't have world class players. They have several. I'm just responding to the "best team ever" tag some have given. It's far too premature to make that statement.

It's just the time of the season when the discussions start. BT Sports, Sky and BEiN Sports all had similar debates with their pundits yesterday.

There's definitely still a long way to go this season