General Premier League Thread 2019-20

8-10

Baggly wrote: »

Issue isn't the decision then, it's the law. Still clear cut. These decisions would have been right if applied without Var. They are just getting caught now.

I don't know how you change the offside rule to take account of Var, without making a mockery of offside as a concept.

Offside rules have always had the concept of being 'level'. FIFA rulebook still states that level is onside

All VAR has to do is create the acceptable margin of accuracy within which the player is considered level instead of trying to determine being a pixel offside.

VAR has yet to rule anybody onside by being level because its specifically designed to be one or the other.

If you have a really tight call, and the lines you draw are within X number of mm or cm, then you are level and onside. They just need to decide what X is

Baggly

Potential Underachiever wrote:

Before VAR they just put a line across the pitch and you could see clear as day if a player was offside, this sh1te of two lines and then drawing extra lines from the armpit etc is ridiculous in fairness. If it's extremely tight then benefit to the attacker, it's over complicated at the moment.

I think when it was as close as the ones they are looking at now with Var, they didn't even bother to draw a line, so these kinds of calls went completely unnoticed.

So they look even more nit picky by comparison now.

Rafael honigstein explained the myth of advantage to the attacker very well on a podcast a couple of weeks ago. The advantage to the attacker refers to letting the play develop to see if they are involved. It was never intended to mean let lads away with being offside. Instruction to refs has always been use the info you have to make the call you think is right. They just have more info now due to Var.

If you are talking about introducing a new advantage that favours the attacker, that's different. I'm not sure how that would work though.

Baggly

8-10 wrote:

If you have a really tight call, and the lines you draw are within X number of mm or cm, then you are level and onside. They just need to decide what X is

Level was a grand concept when the info wasn't available to determine otherwise. It is now.

Pandoras box is open. Even from a intellectual level I don't know how we would go to ignoring things we know are wrong.

At least before we could claim we didn't know.

Baggly

You know somewhere that some var nerd is going back through previous seasons and seeing how many goals were offside in reality, and how that would impact each season.

What an age to be alive. :pac:

yourdeadwright

I think offside and VAR is fine as it is,
At the moment everyone knows of your off your off even if it's by a tiny margin,

if for instance as some have suggested they give a few cm leway you'll only have the same arguments all over again when someone is 1 cm outside that leway given

No matter where the point of offside isthere will always be one marginaly beyond that point and the same debate will continue

Currently interpretation has been removed and thats what we want because it means same rule for all and not big teams or home teams getting the tight calls in there favour

yourdeadwright

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Good to see you back, were you on a sabbatical?

I was of sorts alright

bangkok

Baggly wrote: »

You know somewhere that some var nerd is going back through previous seasons and seeing how many goals were offside in reality, and how that would impact each season.

What an age to be alive. :pac:

Luis Garcia's goal v chelsea def wouldnt have stood..

Widdensushi

bangkok wrote: »

Luis Garcia's goal v chelsea def wouldnt have stood..

but it was a definite penalty

.G.

Widdensushi wrote: »

but it was a definite penalty

And red card for the keeper:)

Drumpot

Just thinking about Drogbas “it’s a f**king disgrace” moment there in relation to VAR. I couldn’t remember what game it was and looked it up. It happened in 2009 champions league semi final game between chelsea and Barca. Chelsea could of supposedly had 4 penos but got none and Barca only won on away goals . That would of been a second Man U v Chelsea champions league final in a row. Some suggested that fifa didn’t want two English teams in the final again. VAR would of cleared all that up.

Ah F**k.

niallo27

Drumpot wrote: »

Just thinking about Drogbas “it’s a f**king disgrace” moment there in relation to VAR. I couldn’t remember what game it was and looked it up. It happened in 2009 champions league semi final game between chelsea and Barca. Chelsea could of supposedly had 4 penos but got none and Barca only won on away goals . That would of been a second Man U v Chelsea champions league final in a row. Some suggested that fifa didn’t want two English teams in the final again. VAR would of cleared all that up.

Ah F**k.

Would it have though, they very rarely overturn the ref's decision on penalties. They would have probably got one I suppose.

niallo27

bangkok wrote: »

Luis Garcia's goal v chelsea def wouldnt have stood..

Ya I dont think it actually crossed the line, i was there that night. The noise was incredible, never known an atmosphere like it and havent since.

The_Kew_Tour

Drumpot wrote: »

Just thinking about Drogbas “it’s a f**king disgrace” moment there in relation to VAR. I couldn’t remember what game it was and looked it up. It happened in 2009 champions league semi final game between chelsea and Barca. Chelsea could of supposedly had 4 penos but got none and Barca only won on away goals . That would of been a second Man U v Chelsea champions league final in a row. Some suggested that fifa didn’t want two English teams in the final again. VAR would of cleared all that up.

Ah F**k.

Chelsea would have beaten us that night too if they got to final. We are very poor in 09 final.

rob316

What a player Aguero is, but for injuries he'd have smashed that record along time ago. One of the best finishers I've ever seen with ferocious power in his shots.

Guy:Incognito

rob316 wrote: »

What a player Aguero is, but for injuries he'd have smashed that record along time ago. One of the best finishers I've ever seen with ferocious power in his shots.

Going by wiki, up till the game today, they both had a record of 254 games and 174 goals. It's taken him and extra season but same goals to games.

10 more to catch Andy Cole.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Just thinking about Drogbas “it’s a f**king disgrace” moment there in relation to VAR. I couldn’t remember what game it was and looked it up. It happened in 2009 champions league semi final game between chelsea and Barca. Chelsea could of supposedly had 4 penos but got none and Barca only won on away goals . That would of been a second Man U v Chelsea champions league final in a row. Some suggested that fifa didn’t want two English teams in the final again. VAR would of cleared all that up.

Ah F**k.

var would have given chelsea 4 penos that night. there was lots of talk back then that the ref was bribed by UEFA to ensure Barca got to the final. some of the decisions were so obvious. ref retired soon after that game if i remember correctly

RugbyLover123

Sergio Aguero..

Never done it on the international stage
Never done it in the knockout stages of the CL

He’s never been even linked to Barca or Real which you’d think he would have been.

Good striker but not all that for me.

The_Kew_Tour

To me one of top 3 strikers in the league in past 20 years.


Honestly what a player.

noodler

The only **** thing I can even think to say that's negative about Aguero is that it seemed he was more likely to score goals in routs rather than the decisive goal in tight victories.

That's literally all I have "prolific player scores more in routs" shocker

ShamoBuc

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Sergio Aguero..

Never done it on the international stage
Never done it in the knockout stages of the CL

He’s never been even linked to Barca or Real which you’d think he would have been.

Good striker but not all that for me.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

To me one of top 3 strikers in the league in past 20 years.

Honestly what a player.

Typical of Boards soccer really.

bangkok

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Sergio Aguero..

Never done it on the international stage
Never done it in the knockout stages of the CL

He’s never been even linked to Barca or Real which you’d think he would have been.

Good striker but not all that for me.

without a shadow of a doubt, one of the best strikers to ever play in the premier league

also he has 41 goals in 97 games for argentina

RugbyLover123

noodler wrote: »

The only **** thing I can even think to say that's negative about Aguero is that it seemed he was more likely to score goals in routs rather than the decisive goal in tight victories.

That's literally all I have "prolific player scores more in routs" shocker

I know he’s never scored at Anfield. I’m not sure what his scoring rate is in the big games against peak Chelsea, United etc. But yes, would agree with you that he seems to run up scores in games that are won easily.

No doubt a great PL striker. But at the top level - World Cups/CL - he hasn’t done it.

Behind Henry, Suarez, Shearer, Rooney and Drogba for me in PL terms.

Guy:Incognito

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

To me one of top 3 strikers in the league in past 20 years.

Hes literally the 4th :D

The_Kew_Tour

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Hes literally the 4th :D

Considering he had so many injuries that still some feat.

I do take point that at International and CL he maybe not done it enough. I would argue it was more down to team and few breaks rather then himself but there is go.

BullBlackNova

Aguero is absolute class. A player I hate playing against - even with his weirdly bad record at Anfield.

I think people become almost bored of how remarkable his scoring record is because he's been doing it so consistently for so long.

And, maybe, because he doesn't do a lot other than score which seems like a weird criticism - what else should your striker do? - but it's the same type of thing that is thrown at Kane, Lewandowski, etc. All remarkable goalscorers to the point that people take it for granted.

Guy:Incognito

He averages 30 games a season in the PL, so that would mean hed have to play 6.2 more seasons ( so the rest of this year + 6 seasons) to play the same amount of games as Shearer (441)

Hes 83 goals short of Shearers record.

But at his current scoring rate (1.44 games to goals) , hed need to play 119 more games. Thats 4 full seasons to equal Shearers record, assuming no drop in scoring rate.

So , in summary, by the start of Feb 2024 (4 months shy of his 35th birthday) he should have broken the 260 mark

Guy:Incognito

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Aguero is absolute class. A player I hate playing against - even with his weirdly bad record at Anfield.
.

Virgil? :eek::eek:

Marty Bird

niallo27 wrote: »

Ya I dont think it actually crossed the line, i was there that night. The noise was incredible, never known an atmosphere like it and havent since.

So was I but look how far Gallas‘s foot was behind the line. It was a goal.

8-10

Marty Bird wrote: »

So was I but look how far Gallas‘s foot was behind the line. It was a goal.

I always thought it crossed the line too. Can only dream of being there though, very jealous

I've been to some incredible life defining atmospheres at Anfield but that night is still talked about as one of the very best

rob316

Aguero also the holder of the most important goal in PL history, winning the league title with the last kick of the game. United have won and are league champions until Auguerroooooooo! Absolute scenes.

Drumpot

I think Aguero is just class, probably the best striker in the league for the majority of the decade. Always reliable in big games and who can forget his winner against QPR? I know my eldest who was two year old at the time probably still has nightmares Of daddy howling at the TV when that goal went in! That goal still makes me twitch to this day.

On a side note The fact that messi and Ronaldo have a goal scoring ratio 1.5 times better just gives an indication of how far those lads are from even the closest top class players near them.

8-10

rob316 wrote: »

Aguero also the holder of the most important goal in PL history, winning the league title with the last kick of the game. United have won and are league champions until Auguerroooooooo! Absolute scenes.

Mario Balotelli's only assist that season

If Bournemouth - a club whose history before Howe was "beat Manchester United in a cup game" - sack him, despite attendances that would make some 3rd tier clubs blush and because he can't maintain phenomenal success in the face of a massive injury crisis, it surely will set new standards in ingratitude.

rob316

They should stick with Howe and bring in some bodies in the window. He'll do enough to keep them up once he gets some players back.

Can’t believe Bournemouth would consider sacking Howe. Could be the best thing to happen to him if they do.

Can’t remember the real record holders but it’s disgusting that Jimmy Greaves and Dixie Dean never existed according to recent media.

brinty

rob316 wrote:

Aguero also the holder of the most important goal in PL history, winning the league title with the last kick of the game. United have won and are league champions until Auguerroooooooo! Absolute scenes.

Imagine your team is about to win it's first title in a lifetime and you're most memorable moment is from a player not in your own team scoring a goal b to deny your biggest rival a title...

#obsessed #cantgetusoutoftheirminds #littleclubmentality

bangkok

'Furious Conte questions Sanchez fitness'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11907212

Sanchez loan deal not going too well

This is it

bangkok wrote: »

'Furious Conte questions Sanchez fitness'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11907212

Sanchez loan deal not going too well

Out of context, apparently he was injured and Conte was saying something along the lines, of course he's not fully fit, he was injured.

bangkok

This is it wrote: »

Out of context, apparently he was injured and Conte was saying something along the lines, of course he's not fully fit, he was injured.

Its been a disaster of a loan all the same, 4 games is all he has been involved in

rob316

brinty wrote: »

Imagine your team is about to win it's first title in a lifetime and you're most memorable moment is from a player not in your own team scoring a goal b to deny your biggest rival a title...

#obsessed #cantgetusoutoftheirminds #littleclubmentality

What are you talking about.

Shanotheslayer

rob316 wrote: »

Aguero also the holder of the most important goal in PL history, winning the league title with the last kick of the game. United have won and are league champions until Auguerroooooooo! Absolute scenes.

brinty wrote: »

Imagine your team is about to win it's first title in a lifetime and you're most memorable moment is from a player not in your own team scoring a goal b to deny your biggest rival a title...

I'm no genius, but that's not what Rob said at all.

The fact of the matter is Aguero did score one of the most important goals in PL history. Probably won't see anything like that for a very long time.

BullBlackNova

Just catching up on Match of the Day from Saturday now - Danny Ings is in flying form. Could have had three or four against Leicester. I'm delighted to see him in such good form. Always had high hopes for him at Liverpool but injuries and managerial changes meant it didn't happen.

Few other things from that game--without Ndidi, Leicester look much softer in the centre. He's a super player.

Credit to Ayoze Perez too for the quick thinking for the Leicester goal, taking the free kick straight away to set Vardy through.

Some excellent use of VAR in the game too. I didn't see it live so not sure how long the delays were but the Vardy offside goal, the Iheanacho offside goal and the non-penalty due to offside were all correct decisions and examples of the tech being used well.

A different game to this but same topic, I can't fathom the outrage over the Rice handball. The rule is very clear. What are they meant to do? Ignore it? If the rule is changed, then fine, but otherwise I don't see what else should happen there. Much clearer than some of the marginal offsides even.

Baggly

I like Aguero for his consistency and for the lack of off field antics from him. Doesnt try to control clubs or carry out his agenda ala Messi and Ronaldo (imo anyway). Thats a major plus for me anyway. I could be wrong, but thats my impression of him.

pjohnson

I'm suprised Ndidi is still at Leicester. I honestly think he'd improve any team and I include City and Liverpool in that.

razorblunt

rob316 wrote: »

They should stick with Howe and bring in some bodies in the window. He'll do enough to keep them up once he gets some players back.

That's the thing though, he doesn't tend to do well with players he buys in.

Baggly

pjohnson wrote: »

I'm suprised Ndidi is still at Leicester. I honestly think he'd improve any team and I include City and Liverpool in that.

He does his job very well and would slot nicely into City's team, imo.

BullBlackNova

pjohnson wrote: »

I'm suprised Ndidi is still at Leicester. I honestly think he'd improve any team and I include City and Liverpool in that.

I don't see him being there much longer. He won't come cheap though.

I think he could be an ideal long-term replacement for Fernandinho but, as you say, any team would benefit from his presence so they might not be alone in going for him.

I don't see him at Liverpool - the owners simply wouldn't greenlight that much cash for a player who wouldn't necessarily start each week with Fabinho already there. People might favour Ndidi over Fab but even if that's the case, the gap is slight.

But City, Spurs, Arsenal, United all have gaps in that position either at the moment or emerging in the next while. He should top the list for all of them.

Jurgen The German

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm no genius, but that's not what Rob said at all.

The fact of the matter is Aguero did score one of the most important goals in PL history. Probably won't see anything like that for a very long time.

Kompanys screamer vs Leicester last year wasnt far off it, essentially won them the league.

BullBlackNova

Jurgen The German wrote: »

Kompanys screamer vs Leicester last year wasnt far off it, essentially won them the league.

Well, ultimately it proved the difference but if City had gone on and lost to Brighton, it wouldn't have.

The Aguero goal was a golden goal, in essence. It went in, title was won there and then.

After Kompanys, City still had to pick up more points.

TitianGerm

razorblunt wrote: »

That's the thing though, he doesn't tend to do well with players he buys in.

Is he picking the players himself or us there a committee choosing the signings?