General Premier League Thread 2019-20

PhlegmyMoses

MD1990 wrote: »

Traore done Wan Bissaka easily a few times tonight.

He is a good player but Van Dijk is better in 1v1's

Guys, GUYS....A Liverpool player is really good.

noodler

TitianGerm wrote: »

£143 according to Transfer Markt.

In the last 5 seasons United have spent £703m and the team looks no better for it. They've wasted so much money.

Liverpool have spent £517 in the same time.

Which we've paid for with player sales.

~Rebel~

bangkok wrote: »

I was talking about best right back in a one on one..

In fairness, he is a fantastic defender... but it feels like fullback has evolved waaay beyond just being a brilliant defender these days though. All the best ones bring a whole extra attacking dimension to their teams now.

Liam O

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In fairness, he is a fantastic defender... but it feels like fullback has evolved waaay beyond just being a brilliant defender these days though. All the best ones bring a whole extra attacking dimension to their teams now.

It depends on the system really. You can play with more attacking midfielders if the full backs are covering the gaps they leave. Unfortunately United are completely disjointed in their system so when they control the ball everyone pushes up and it means it only takes one pass for an attacker to be one on one with the CBs. Matic has gone some way to combating that the last couple of games but he doesn't have the legs anymore.

Corholio

I like Wan Bissaka a lot, I think he'll be a quality player for a good while to come. Still learning though, dived in and was skinned by Neto easy down the left. Why does praise have to have this 'best in Europe at....' etc stuff tacked on though? Just stuff to get these little false 1 up's. Happens from the other side too.

Shanotheslayer

Corholio wrote: »

I like Wan Bissaka a lot, I think he'll be a quality player for a good while to come. Still learning though, dived in and was skinned by Neto easy down the left. Why does praise have to have this 'best in Europe at....' etc stuff tacked on though? Just stuff to get these little false 1 up's. Happens from the other side too.

I've only ever heard it this year where somebody is specifically the best in the world X thing.

Gini is the best in the world at recycling the ball and Wan B is the best in the world at 1v1 defending apparently. It's probably been used plenty of other times but never heard it used as much as this year.

BullBlackNova

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I've only ever heard it this year where somebody is specifically the best in the world X thing.

Gini is the best in the world at recycling the ball and Wan B is the best in the world at 1v1 defending apparently. It's probably been used plenty of other times but never heard it used as much as this year.

It's a mind numbing, irritating debate that has crept in to football chat everywhere. I blame social media and click bait accounts in the vein SportsLADbanter. They can't put out a story that says "Hey, isn't player x really good?" because nobody will click on it.

Outrage fuels clicks so they better declare player x the best in the world at everything.

And we all know player x is **** anyway...

Shanotheslayer

BullBlackNova wrote: »

It's a mind numbing, irritating debate that has crept in to football chat everywhere. I blame social media and click bait accounts in the vein SportsLADbanter. They can't put out a story that says "Hey, isn't player x really good?" because nobody will click on it.

Outrage fuels clicks so they better declare player x the best in the world at everything.

And we all know player x is **** anyway...

Good call. PLAYER X HAS MADE THE MOST TACKLES IN EUROPE THIS YEAR. CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO.

PARlance

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In fairness, he is a fantastic defender... but it feels like fullback has evolved waaay beyond just being a brilliant defender these days though. All the best ones bring a whole extra attacking dimension to their teams now.

I think most, if not all, United fans will say that he needs to improve going forward. I think he's up their with the best defensively but he still gives my nerves a shot as I get used to his unorthodox tackling style (which sees him tackle/lunge in with the "wrong" foot).

I wouldn't say the fullback position has evolved way beyond just "being a brilliant defender". I think it has evolved away from being a defender in some cases. The attacking emphasis/role has evolved massively but some of them aren't good defenders, let alone brilliant ones.

The attacking side of the role is wanted/valued more highly now and as formations and tactics have evolved and that's the main yardstick for them.

Personally, I think AWB has been one of our best signings in a long long time and I think the ideal balance is to have one more defensive minded fb and one attacking one. Our problem is that Shaw wasn't really offering what you would expect from an attacking one. William's offers so much more and can also defend, but it's early days. The other problem we have (and have had it for some time) is that we don't have a top quality wide right player ahead of AWB.

theoneeyedman

Would AWB make a good centre back, or why hasn't he been tried there already, what am I missing?

Seems like a good defender r/tackler, would be more suited to defending from centre back, with the occasional forray forward, rather than being shoehorned in as an attacking RB when he doesn't appear to have the ball skills for that role. You'll get away with a stationary fullback with Woys Palace, who will concede possession and counter attack, but normally a top team, and for some reason United are still included, will have lots of possession and need fullbacks to contribute going forward too.

Would seem an obvious step to me.

Fitz*

Put it this way, in the game on Sunday and when United play a back 5, I expect Liverpool to press United in certain positions and force them into passing to AWB free in space on that side of the pitch.

bangkok

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Would AWB make a good centre back, or why hasn't he been tried there already, what am I missing?

Seems like a good defender r/tackler, would be more suited to defending from centre back, with the occasional forray forward, rather than being shoehorned in as an attacking RB when he doesn't appear to have the ball skills for that role. You'll get away with a stationary fullback with Woys Palace, who will concede possession and counter attack, but normally a top team, and for some reason United are still included, will have lots of possession and need fullbacks to contribute going forward too.

Would seem an obvious step to me.

I would say he does have the ball skills. The problem is everyone is comparing him to TAA who is exceptional going forward.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

Put it this way, in the game on Sunday and when United play a back 5, I expect Liverpool to press United in certain positions and force them into passing to AWB free in space on that side of the pitch.

Wolves seemed to be aiming for the left side and Brandon Williams in the first half last night, especially Ruddy with his distribution. Williams is an exciting prospect but still is prone to getting caught out. If played on Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool target attacks through that left side as well.

Fitz*

bangkok wrote: »

I would say he does have the ball skills. The problem is everyone is comparing him to TAA who is exceptional going forward.

You're right, we should be comparing him with Bertrand, Cresswell, Bardsley & Rico who seem to be in the same league as him in terms of attacking output.

Fitz*

Deleted User wrote: »

Wolves seemed to be aiming for the left side and Brandon Williams in the first half last night, especially Ruddy with his distribution. Williams is an exciting prospect but still is prone to getting caught out. If played on Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool target attacks through that left side as well.

I couldn't watch last night, but yeah I agree, you would expect a team to target attacking Williams out of the 2, for two reasons - AWB is great defensively so you are likely to have less success and because Williams is a novice and young, it's unknown how he will react.

That is targeting attacking through that side of the pitch, but I meant when defending and United have the ball, they will try force the distribution towards AWB as he is not capable of playing long accurate passes forwards, or building up play from the back.

PARlance

theoneeyedman wrote: »

what am I missing?

1. An understanding of the differences between a FB and a CB
2. The strenghts of AWB's defensive game.
3. The fact that United don't have a quality RB to slot in for him if he was to overtake the 7 or so other CBs at the club.

His strength is in the tackle and stopping people getting past him, which he regularly encounters at FB and is much less of an issue at CB. As witnessed by the fact that Lindelof can lay claim to the much talked about, but well down the list of importance for a CB, stat of not having had someone dribble past him in the league this year.

CB is much more about positional awareness. Some FBs will, generally towards the end of their career (when they lose some pace) switch inside but they'll have had a career learning from the CB beside them. It's a rare enough occurance all the same.

At a push, he might be suited to RCB in a 3 man defence.

rob316

If Ole knew what he was doing he could allow the LB williams to push right up and let AWB fall into a back 3 when they are attacking. He's poor on the ball from what I've seen but has alot of potential and looks strong defensively.

PARlance

Deleted User wrote: »

Wolves seemed to be aiming for the left side and Brandon Williams in the first half last night, especially Ruddy with his distribution. Williams is an exciting prospect but still is prone to getting caught out. If played on Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool target attacks through that left side as well.

If Young's head is right, I would start him at the weekend. And I'm becoming a big fan of Williams and was never Young's biggest fan.

rob316

Reading there in the Athletic, Bournemouth are in massive trouble if they got relegated. They are running a wage to turnover ratio of 85%. They are completely reliant on the PL tv money.

Cantona's Collars

rob316 wrote: »

Reading there in the Athletic, Bournemouth are in massive trouble if they got relegated. They are running a wage to turnover ratio of 85%. They are completely reliant on the PL tv money.

There's a few clubs like that,for all the money that clubs make they aren't exactly profitable in the scheme of things once you dig into the financial side of their business. As you say,a drop out of the top tier could result in them going into freefall.
I think at one stage Middlesbrough were in the worst position of all.
Liverpool were one of the biggest clubs to be running close to the edge, that's probably been eased now with CL money and better sponsorship deals.

The Swiss Ramble is a good source for the financial side of the clubs.

Baggly

I think they have a lot of aging high (ish) wage players out of contract in the summer too; only one of which they could flog if he werent out of contract.

So im thinking that would actually help them get the wage bill down, if they did go down.

Dr. Bre

Andy gray reckons grealish better than any of Liverpool midfielders lol

Baggly

Andy Gray reckons there are clicks to be found in sensationalist statements.

bangkok

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Andy gray reckons grealish better than any of Liverpool midfielders lol

Not that much of a lol really, with the ball i would agree he is better than them

Shanotheslayer

Here we go again boizzzz

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

Reading there in the Athletic, Bournemouth are in massive trouble if they got relegated. They are running a wage to turnover ratio of 85%. They are completely reliant on the PL tv money.

Sounds like a proper rot has set in at the club from that article. They’ll get the training facility out of it and have the memories but otherwise they’re going down.

Honestly, seems to me that Howe should go. Medical / injury issues are partly his responsibility and it sounds like his motivational methods have gone stale. Those in charge of recruitment and contracts should be gone also. They need to start thinking about life in the Championship.

Shanotheslayer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Medical / injury issues are partly his responsibility.

Surely that is circumstancial on how the injury has occured?

I.e - a player half fit and he plays him and then tears a muscle - Howes at fault

- A player fully fit, gets a bad tackle out for 6 months - Not his fault.

Fitz*

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Surely that is circumstancial on how the injury has occured?

I.e - a player half fit and he plays him and then tears a muscle - Howes at fault

- A player fully fit, gets a bad tackle out for 6 months - Not his fault.

Mings basically said that it was Bournemouth's fault that he was always injured at the club.

England defender Tyrone Mings endured an injury-blighted stay at Bournemouth before joining Villa permanently over the summer. Ahead of the play-off final last season, he gave this response when asked about his back problem. “I have never been injury prone,” he insisted. “I had a seven-week back injury at Bournemouth and was out seven months. Read into that what you want.”

is_that_so

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sounds like a proper rot has set in at the club from that article. They’ll get the training facility out of it and have the memories but otherwise they’re going down.

Honestly, seems to me that Howe should go. Medical / injury issues are partly his responsibility and it sounds like his motivational methods have gone stale. Those in charge of recruitment and contracts should be gone also. They need to start thinking about life in the Championship.

What's the story with Villa, after their massive splurge?

noodler

bangkok wrote: »

Not that much of a lol really, with the ball i would agree he is better than them

Fairly lol to be honest.

He looks creative at times.

So does Henderson and Wini though. Can he influence a game like Fabinho or Wini?

Is he as athletic as Keita?

I applaud your attempt to focus on as narrow a possible angle to spark "debate" though.

bangkok

noodler wrote: »

Fairly lol to be honest.

He looks creative at times.

So does Henderson and Wini though. Can he influence a game like Fabinho or Wini?

Is he as athletic as Keita?

I applaud your attempt to focus on as narrow a possible angle to spark "debate" though.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11870415/jack-grealish-has-what-some-top-premier-league-players-dont-says-jamie-carragher

carragher seems to think so as well, he has something that even the liverpool or citys front players dont have, he can actually run a game

LineOfBeauty

noodler wrote: »

Fairly lol to be honest.

He looks creative at times.

So does Henderson and Wini though. Can he influence a game like Fabinho or Wini?

Is he as athletic as Keita?

I applaud your attempt to focus on as narrow a possible angle to spark "debate" though.

I don't think Klopp would have him near his midfield. Not his kind of player, bit lightweight and a bit of a passenger out of possession.

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11870415/jack-grealish-has-what-some-top-premier-league-players-dont-says-jamie-carragher

carragher seems to think so as well, he has something that even the liverpool or citys front players dont have, he can actually run a game

Are you saying KDB can't run a game?

bangkok

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I don't think Klopp would have him near his midfield. Not his kind of player, bit lightweight and a bit of a passenger out of possession.

He is far from lightweight.

bangkok

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Are you saying KDB can't run a game?

Carra was comparing to city and liverpool front 3. De bruyne doesnt play front 3 for city

TitianGerm

noodler wrote: »

Fairly lol to be honest.

He looks creative at times.

So does Henderson and Wini though. Can he influence a game like Fabinho or Wini?

Is he as athletic as Keita?

I applaud your attempt to focus on as narrow a possible angle to spark "debate" though.

I wouldn't say Kieta is athletic at the minute :pac:

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

Carra was comparing to city and liverpool front 3. De bruyne doesnt play front 3 for city

So Sterling, Mane or Firmino can't run a game?

rob316

bangkok wrote: »

Carra was comparing to city and liverpool front 3. De bruyne doesnt play front 3 for city

I thought it was the midfield were talking about. I'm confused

TitianGerm

rob316 wrote: »

I thought it was the midfield were talking about. I'm confused

The olde switcheroo

bangkok

TitianGerm wrote: »

So Sterling, Mane or Firmino can't run a game?

Not the way grealish does. Mane and sterling look for the ball in behind. Firmino different player

Shanotheslayer

How in flying fck, did the conversation go from

''Grealish could get into Liverpools midfield''

To '' City/Liverpool don't have a front 3 that run the game like Grealish does''

rob316

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

How in flying fck, did the conversation go from

''Grealish could get into Liverpools midfield''

To '' City/Liverpool don't have a front 3 that run the game like Grealish does''

Bangkok

LineOfBeauty

bangkok wrote: »

He is far from lightweight.

He can dribble and he gets fouled a lot but Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Henderson, The Ox, those are strong, powerful athletes, Grealish is definitely not in that mould and anyway plays as a number 10 which Klopp basically hasn't done in ages.

bangkok

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

How in flying fck, did the conversation go from

''Grealish could get into Liverpools midfield''

To '' City/Liverpool don't have a front 3 that run the game like Grealish does''

Was just from a link that carra said a few months ago. No big deal. We are on a discussion forum

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

Was just from a link that carra said a few months ago. No big deal. We are on a discussion forum

You're right it's not a big deal, but nobody knows what to reply to because you originally said midfield. You're talking about two different positions for the same player.

bangkok

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You're right it's not a big deal, but nobody knows what to reply to because you originally said midfield. You're talking about two different positions for the same player.

Just going back on what andy gray said though, i dont think its that mad a thing to say he is better midfielder than any of liverpools

Shanotheslayer

bangkok wrote: »

Just going back on what andy gray said though, i dont think its that mad a thing to say he is better midfielder than any of liverpools

Liverpool don't play with that sort of midfielder as pointed out. Who is he directly compared to in Liverpools midfield? I don't think offhand there is anyone with similar qualities? Perhaps a Liverpool fan could point out. Lallana? Who is a squad player and barely plays.

He'd be more suited to a City style midfield and I don't think he'd get much of a look in there myself.

LineOfBeauty

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Liverpool don't play with that sort of midfielder as pointed out. Who is he directly compared to in Liverpools midfield? I don't think offhand there is anyone with similar qualities? Perhaps a Liverpool fan could point out. Lallana? Who is a squad player and barely plays.

He'd be more suited to a City style midfield and I don't think he'd get much of a look in there myself.

Wouldn't have him near the City midfield either, he's a good player but I think he's a bit more suited to a counter attacking team.

TitianGerm

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Liverpool don't play with that sort of midfielder as pointed out. Who is he directly compared to in Liverpools midfield? I don't think offhand there is anyone with similar qualities? Perhaps a Liverpool fan could point out. Lallana? Who is a squad player and barely plays.

He'd be more suited to a City style midfield and I don't think he'd get much of a look in there myself.

Minamino now I'd say. He played a lot for Red Bull from the left but played the 10 as well.

Most Villa fans think Grealish is wasted out on the left I'd say.

Corholio

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Wouldn't have him near the City midfield either, he's a good player but I think he's a bit more suited to a counter attacking team.

A counter attacking team? It'd be the opposite. He demands and looks for the ball a lot, controls games too when team are on top, just hasn't been surrounded by similar quality players for that to happen often.

I don't particularly think Liverpool need Grealish, their midfield is superb and already has many facets to it. However you can tell who only has an 'impression' of Grealish and who actually watches him. Have heard 'doesn't do enough off the ball', 'lightweight', 'goes missing' which are all ridiculous and the opposite of his performances this season. His stats are up there with the best players this season from midfield.