General Premier League Thread 2019-20

bangkok

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Wouldn't have him near the City midfield either, he's a good player but I think he's a bit more suited to a counter attacking team.

I would say opposite to counter attack. He is more in control and has a swagger when he is on the ball

LineOfBeauty

Corholio wrote: »

A counter attacking team? It'd be the opposite. He demands and looks for the ball a lot, controls games too when team are on top, just hasn't been surrounded by similar quality players for that to happen often.

I don't particularly think Liverpool need Grealish, their midfield is superb and already has many facets to it. However you can tell who only has an 'impression' of Grealish and who actually watches him. Have heard 'doesn't do enough off the ball', 'lightweight', 'goes missing' which are all ridiculous and the opposite of his performances this season. His stats are up there with the best players this season from midfield.

I think so, I think he's at his best dribbling into big spaces, at City that's not the MO for their midfielders.

I'm not watching Vila play every week, but I've seen enough full games of him to form my own opinion on him. If you're his size (barely taller than David Silva according to Google) then you need to be particularly special on the ball to play in a midfield 3 for one of the big clubs, I don't think he is. That's not to say he isn't a very good player or an excellent number 10 but not a starting midfield 3 player for a top team I think.

LuckyLloyd

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Surely that is circumstancial on how the injury has occured?

I.e - a player half fit and he plays him and then tears a muscle - Howes at fault

- A player fully fit, gets a bad tackle out for 6 months - Not his fault.

So the implication in the article is that injuries are managed poorly on a recurring basis. If true, it’s his responsibility to challenge medical / fitness staff and clear house as necessary.

LuckyLloyd

is_that_so wrote: »

What's the story with Villa, after their massive splurge?

I don’t understand the question? My post was discussing Bournemouth

yourdeadwright

Grealish is a poor man's Couthino and as we have all learned once Couthino left Liverpool the midfeild has become stronger,
Grealish may be more skillful than Liverpool midfeild but there all about drive, work rate and intensity, He doesn't get near there midfield,
Its really about they system, Liverpool use the full backs and 3 up front for creativity the midfeild is the engine room and they do recycling of the ball , Grealish doesn't fit what they want in there

yourdeadwright

TitianGerm wrote: »

Minamino now I'd say. He played a lot for Red Bull from the left but played the 10 as well.

Most Villa fans think Grealish is wasted out on the left I'd say.

I reckon Minamino has been bought to be a Firmino stand in when needed and not a midfielder

Slattsy

FitzShane wrote: »

You're right, we should be comparing him with Bertrand, Cresswell, Bardsley & Rico who seem to be in the same league as him in terms of attacking output.

It took me a few seconds to find Trent

is_that_so

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don’t understand the question? My post was discussing Bournemouth

It's called extending the discussion! Just curious about them.

TitianGerm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I reckon Minamino has been bought to be a Firmino stand in when needed and not a midfielder

I don't think so. If Bobby isn't available I think we'll see a 4-2-3-1 formation with Minamino in the 10, Mane left, Shaq/Salah on the right and Salah/Origi up top later on in the season or next season.

yourdeadwright

TitianGerm wrote: »

I don't think so. If Bobby isn't available I think we'll see a 4-2-3-1 formation with Minamino in the 10, Mane left, Shaq/Salah on the right and Salah/Origi up top later on in the season or next season.

Very possible you could be correct

Fitz*

TitianGerm wrote: »

I don't think so. If Bobby isn't available I think we'll see a 4-2-3-1 formation with Minamino in the 10, Mane left, Shaq/Salah on the right and Salah/Origi up top later on in the season or next season.

I have a feeling we will see more of that formation anyways.

Salah has improved the 'CF' side to his game so much in the last 18 months. He receives the ball with his back to goal, and is strong enough to hold off defenders with arse and then either turn at run at goal, or else bring team mates into it by laying it off. It's happening so much in games lately, it has to be a clear tactic from the coaching staff IMO.

Potential Underachiever

Looking forward to seeing Minamino get a start with the proper first XI not just with the reserve team in cups.

bangkok

'Trent vs AWB: A clash of styles'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11908654

LineOfBeauty

bangkok wrote: »

'Trent vs AWB: A clash of styles'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11908654

Love Trent, brilliant player, tonnes of potential to get even better. The "he's one of the best attacking full backs I've ever seen" quote in that article is laying it on a bit thick though.

LuckyLloyd

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Love Trent, brilliant player, tonnes of potential to get even better. The "he's one of the best attacking full backs I've ever seen" quote in that article is laying it on a bit thick though.

Is it? I’m in my mid thirties and he’s an objective standout as one of the most electric attacking fullbacks I’ve ever watched in detail. Maybe there were lads plying their trade in the 60’s and 70’s that were better?

gimli2112

His attacking output in the past two years has been astonishing. Roberto Carlos and Cafu spring to mind as attacking full backs, obviously there has been more but in terms of "pinnacle" these two spring to mind. This is the category TAA is currently in. Still has his dodgy moments at the back, which we don't mind when we're winning .

bangkok

Dani Alves at barca was pretty good as well, Evra in his prime with utd

TitianGerm

gimli2112 wrote: »

His attacking output in the past two years has been astonishing. Roberto Carlos and Cafu spring to mind as attacking full backs, obviously there has been more but in terms of "pinnacle" these two spring to mind. This is the category TAA is currently in. Still has his dodgy moments at the back, which we don't mind when we're winning .

Alves and Lahm as well I'd say.

gimli2112

Evra doesn't strike me as a "marauding" full back like the others. That's not a criticism just an observation. I'd say the same of Maldini.

noodler

Have many fullbacks matched the number of assists he has in his first two seasons?

I've seen great crossers before but he is basically something close to the passing range of KDB from RB the last two years.

LineOfBeauty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is it? I’m in my mid thirties and he’s an objective standout as one of the most electric attacking fullbacks I’ve ever watched in detail. Maybe there were lads plying their trade in the 60’s and 70’s that were better?

He's very good, but after 2 full seasons at the top level to already claim he's one the best ever attacking full backs seems a bit much to me. Already mentioned but Alves, Lahm, Alaba, Alba are 4 recent attacking full backs with years of proven quality at the top level. I think TAA will get to that level, but rushing to already put him up there after only 2 years is jumping the gun.

noodler

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

He's very good, but after 2 full seasons at the top level to already claim he's one the best ever attacking full backs seems a bit much to me. Already mentioned but Alves, Lahm, Alaba, Alba are 4 recent attacking full backs with years of proven quality at the top level. I think TAA will get to that level, but rushing to already put him up there after only 2 years is jumping the gun.

Definitely one of the best I've ever seen.

Sure he could retire tomorrow or get injured and nosedive bit can only base it on the three seasons we have.

And those three seasons are unreal.

gimli2112

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

He's very good, but after 2 full seasons at the top level to already claim he's one the best ever attacking full backs seems a bit much to me. Already mentioned but Alves, Lahm, Alaba, Alba are 4 recent attacking full backs with years of proven quality at the top level. I think TAA will get to that level, but rushing to already put him up there after only 2 years is jumping the gun.

I think this is a fair point but coming at it from a different angle, he's performing at this level now, if not beyond it. He may well not maintain it but for two years now he's been astonishing.

He only had one assist in 19 games in 2017/18 year, I just checked. Appalling.

bangkok

Maybe trent will be pushed forward more and play as a winger if salah leaves? Bit like the way bale started out

Fitz*

I do think it's premature to be talking of him as an all time great, but he is playing at a very high level and looks like he is on the correct path in his career to be talked about as one eventually. 10 years at the top before he can be talked about like that IMO.

That said, his career so far is being played at a ridiculously high standard, competing at the top end of the game in every single season he has been a starting player. Currently, he is probably the best full back in the game. Needs to keep his level going though.

17/18: Breakthrough season. The run to the CL final, including a standout defensive performance in the CL 1/4 against Sane & Man City.
18/19: The attacking side of his game really kicks on and he starts racking up a massive amount of assists. CL winner. 1st team in a decade to keep a clean sheet in a CL final.
19/20: Development into more of a playmaker constantly involved in the game from RB. Creating chances (better stat than assists) constantly every game, with a long range passing game added to his repertoire. Only KDB rivals him here. Assist tally stays at the same high level. CWC & Super Cup winner with possibility of more trophies.

8-10

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe trent will be pushed forward more and play as a winger if salah leaves? Bit like the way bale started out

He already plays in that position to be honest. He's a fullback for sure but Liverpool don't have the same system as most teams when it comes to fullbacks.

To push him forward means you either need to change your whole system or have a replacement at RB that can play the same as him. There's nobody out there better right now for that position.

The attached shows the heatmaps of 2 different players from games this season, one is Trent, the other KdB.

Look at the similarity of the attacking half.

TitianGerm

8-10 wrote: »

He already plays in that position to be honest. He's a fullback for sure but Liverpool don't have the same system as most teams when it comes to fullbacks.

To push him forward means you either need to change your whole system or have a replacement at RB that can play the same as him. There's nobody out there better right now for that position.

The attached shows the heatmaps of 2 different players from games this season, one is Trent, the other KdB.

Look at the similarity of the attacking half.

I think TAA is the one on the left.

yourdeadwright

Taa is a little different from your normal attacking full back they normally use speed and skill kinda like your old school winger, Trents weapon is his range of passing and crossing,
He reminds me of Beckham with his range of passing, Plus at his age Beckham was still on loan at Preston,
TAA is very different to your average attacking full back

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe trent will be pushed forward more and play as a winger if salah leaves? Bit like the way bale started out

I dont see it Salah and Winger receives a lot of the ball with back to the full back Trent need to be facing forward to use his passing range,

Makes no sense to move him you will alaways find a winger/wide forward to replace Salah but you won't find a right back that gives you what Trent does its a weapon other teams don't have, another string to Liverpoolsbow why get rid of it by moving him forward

8-10

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think TAA is the one on the left.

He is. The defensive half gives it away but the rest is pretty similar considering nobody would claim KdB plays fullback or Trent plays right midfield from the lineups.

That was Trent away to Villa on Nov 2nd.

KdB one was home to Southampton on the same day.

Both teams won 2-1

TitianGerm

8-10 wrote: »

He is. The defensive half gives it away but the rest is pretty similar considering nobody would claim KdB plays fullback or Trent plays right midfield from the lineups.

That was Trent away to Villa on Nov 2nd.

KdB one was home to Southampton on the same day.

Both teams won 2-1

I actually picked the left one because the one on the right had a a bit more around the centre circle and I knew Trent doesn't venture in there to often.

Dr. Bre

I think bale started out at full back ? Could trent end up in a forward position like bale ?

gimli2112

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I think bale started out at full back ? Could trent end up in a forward position like bale ?

Some of us have opined this on the Liverpool thread which has caused outrage, not without justification. The reality is he works where he is at the moment, why change it? The role he is carving out for himself in the team is making him kind of indispensable.

Shanotheslayer

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I think bale started out at full back ? Could trent end up in a forward position like bale ?

Yeh but Bale was a terrible full back. He had a record of like 37 appearances and never won a game at some stage :pac:

LuckyLloyd

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I think bale started out at full back ? Could trent end up in a forward position like bale ?

In a different system it may make sense to deploy him elsewhere. In Liverpool’s current system, the fullback positions are arguably the most important positions on the pitch.

LineOfBeauty

In the current system he has the freedom to go forward, to come inside into a midfield position and from the right corner back position he can see the full pitch and he has the ability to take advantage of that. Moving him forward would only limit some of his biggest strengths.

Withdrawing players to deeper positions to give them space and a better view of the pitch can be clever, the odd time Guardiola does it with De Bruyne where he puts gets him to play in a right back spot I think he always does very well.

8-10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In a different system it may make sense to deploy him elsewhere. In Liverpool’s current system, the fullback positions are arguably the most important positions on the pitch.

Yeah the interesting thing is where he'll sit in England's team. To-date I don't think they've used him effectively and it's not an easy one to solve.

Jadon Sancho is more than a year younger and has more caps, Marcus Rashford is a year older and has more than 4 times as many caps.

I'm not trying to directly compare those players, just highlighting that certain positions are easier to slot in than others and I think he's hampered by his best position being in a system England don't know how to play.

gimli2112

I look forward to England criminally under using him for many years to come.

bangkok

gimli2112 wrote: »

I look forward to England criminally under using him for many years to come.

At least england will play him in his correct position unlike what they did with scholes

RasTa

Marcello was class

BullBlackNova

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah the interesting thing is where he'll sit in England's team. To-date I don't think they've used him effectively and it's not an easy one to solve.

Jadon Sancho is more than a year younger and has more caps, Marcus Rashford is a year older and has more than 4 times as many caps.

I'm not trying to directly compare those players, just highlighting that certain positions are easier to slot in than others and I think he's hampered by his best position being in a system England don't know how to play.

I think a big factor to hamper TAA's caps with England was the number of players ahead of him in the queue.

With Kyle Walker and Kieran Trippier, England had two full-backs, both of whom were established and important members of the international set-up when TAA arrived on the scene.

Southgate has backed his established players to date - see also: easing Maddison and others into the team - and so wasn't in a rush to put TAA in the team.

With Walker now seemingly out of the picture, TAA is only now the obvious first choice to get into the team. At least in terms of how Southgate manages it.

But, yeah, there is also the question of can England get the best of him in a flat back four and, of course, the competition that will emerge in the coming years. Without TAA, Trippier and Walker, England could still be looking at Wan Bissaka, Reece James, James Justin, Max Aarons and Steven Sessegnong as RB options. I don't know how they will all turn out but that is quite the selection and might justify moving TAA.

For Liverpool, I don't see the logic in moving him to midfield as is often floated because the full-backs are the source of creativity in the team. Often, I think suggestions to move him just misunderstand that fact - putting him in a congested midfield would require him to change his game.

DrumSteve

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I think a big factor to hamper TAA's caps with England was the number of players ahead of him in the queue.

With Kyle Walker and Kieran Trippier, England had two full-backs, both of whom were established and important members of the international set-up when TAA arrived on the scene.

Southgate has backed his established players to date - see also: easing Maddison and others into the team - and so wasn't in a rush to put TAA in the team.

With Walker now seemingly out of the picture, TAA is only now the obvious first choice to get into the team. At least in terms of how Southgate manages it.

But, yeah, there is also the question of can England get the best of him in a flat back four and, of course, the competition that will emerge in the coming years. Without TAA, Trippier and Walker, England could still be looking at Wan Bissaka, Reece James, James Justin, Max Aarons and Steven Sessegnong as RB options. I don't know how they will all turn out but that is quite the selection and might justify moving TAA.

For Liverpool, I don't see the logic in moving him to midfield as is often floated because the full-backs are the source of creativity in the team. Often, I think suggestions to move him just misunderstand that fact - putting him in a congested midfield would require him to change his game.

His average position is just behind the midfield as it is. There is no need to move him as we play so high up the pitch as it is.

Agent Coulson

Oliver taking a stand and doing it in the FA Cup seems to have put some pressure on his boss.

Referees in the Premier League have been advised to start using pitchside monitors from this weekend if a VAR recommends changing a decision on a red card, Sky Sports News has confirmed.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1218162704617279491?s=20

BullBlackNova

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Oliver taking a stand and doing it in the FA Cup seems to have put some pressure on his boss.

It never made any sense why they weren't using them anyway.

The suggestion that it would cause delays in the game doesn't hold up because the VAR checks caused such a delay anyway!

KaiserGunner

BullBlackNova wrote: »

It never made any sense why they weren't using them anyway.

The suggestion that it would cause delays in the game doesn't hold up because the VAR checks caused such a delay anyway!

It all makes sense when ya realise that Mike Riley is head of the PGMOL. Says it all really.

bennyineire

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Oliver taking a stand and doing it in the FA Cup seems to have put some pressure on his boss.



https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1218162704617279491?s=20

Oliver didn't make a stand, The ref checking the monitors was brought in as a trail in the F.A. Cup

I guess the apparent immediate success of that call forced the F.A.'s hand

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

Michael Oliver really is the best they have in England even on MotD that night they said the FA released a statement saying he did off his on back and they had not instructed referees to use the monitor. I thought he might actually get punished by Mile Reilly for doing it.

8-10

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

Michael Oliver really is the best they have in England even on MotD that night they said the FA released a statement saying he did off his on back and they had not instructed referees to use the monitor. I thought he might actually get punished by Mile Reilly for doing it.

Unfortunately he's not just the best, he's the only good one. I'd trade him in for 5 or 6 Michael Oliver's at 80%

Harry Palmr

12:30 Watford v Spurs
15:00 Arsenal v Sheff Utd
15:00 Brighton v Aston Villa
15:00 Man City v C Palace
15:00 Norwich v AFC Bournemouth
15:00 Southampton v Wolves
15:00 West Ham v Everton
17:30 Newcastle v Chelsea

Sunday 19 January 2020
14:00 Burnley v Leicester
16:30 Liverpool v Man Utd

Basement battle as Norwich host Bournemouth, basically Norwich must win this.

Kiith

So wtf is the rule with VAR? There was a definite handball by a Watford player there, hands not at his side, but it wasn't even reviewed? Shouldn't VAR call that back?

Definitely accidental, but that's not supposed to matter anymore...right?