General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Fitz*

This happened last year, with a clear foul on Alisson, and the goal stood. There was more contact in this incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJI26Uo2o_Q

noodler

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Is contact a foul?
I tyink that's the problem people have contact in the rule bol doesn't mean a foul

If I was writing the laws of the game today, the goalkeepers wouldn't have as much protection.

However, if you impede a goalkeeper from jumping, or in this case impact him, without getting the ball then it's a foul and it has always been thus tbh.

yourdeadwright

noodler wrote: »

If I was writing the laws of the game today, the goalkeepers wouldn't have as much protection.

However, if you impede a goalkeeper from jumping, or in this case impact him, without getting the ball then it's a foul and it has always been thus tbh.

But there's no rule on " impact " or "contact " why the Everton goal stood

noodler

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But there's no rule on " impact " or "contact " why the Everton goal stood

There is a rule that of you impact a player after the ball.is gone then it's a foul.

I mean, obviously there is.

It's applied more more vigorously to keepers but as I say twas always so

Iused2likebusts

bangkok wrote: »

More of a mess? On a different day utd draw that game 1-1

If utd score from that last set piece it finishes 1 1 which would have been totally undeserved and the talk would have been that we stuck in there and showed great character. Yet it finished 2 0 and was ultimately the same game. Small margins in football

yourdeadwright

United seem such a mess,
Sky and BT is full of Oles ex team mates who won't call him out and then the like of Evra and Rio want jobs at the club as sporting directors and what not so they don't call out the owners or Woodward,
The whole place such seems a mess

8-10

I thought the refs are supposed to be going over to the sideline now to view VAR?

Its not like VAR agreed with him. Ref said no foul on de Gea, play on. VAR overrules him and he doesn't want to take a look?

MD1990

If Man Utd players had not complained so much goal would have stood.

This Livarpool thing can stop. It cost us our only dropped points against Utd & it tried again today.
Calvert Lewin goal stood recently against Utd when he used his arm.

City getting plenty of Var call recently too. Wolves (Mahrez dive) Pen, Aguero goal(ref obstructs Shef Utd player), Palace (No Pen) yesterday.

Cantona's Collars

8-10 wrote: »

I thought the refs are supposed to be going over to the sideline now to view VAR?

Its not like VAR agreed with him. Ref said no foul on de Gea, play on. VAR overrules him and he doesn't want to take a look?

VAR in the EPL is a mess. We as fans who have the benefit of seeing replays on TV if we aren't at the game can't agree on what's what is bad enough but imagine being in the stadium going wild and then getting confirmation of a decision without seeing as to why it's achieved must be so frustrating.

eigrod

MD1990 wrote: »

If Man Utd players had not complained so much goal would have stood.

This Livarpool thing can stop. It cost us our only dropped points against Utd & it tried again today.
Calvert Lewin goal stood recently against Utd when he used his arm.

City getting plenty of Var call recently too. Wolves (Mahrez dive) Pen, Aguero goal(ref obstructs Shef Utd player), Palace (No Pen) yesterday.

Liverpool have had loads of VAR go against us but we just went on and won the games anyway (or equalise as was the case at OT).

8-10

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

VAR in the EPL is a mess. We as fans who have the benefit of seeing replays on TV if we aren't at the game can't agree on what's what is bad enough but imagine being in the stadium going wild and then getting confirmation of a decision without seeing as to why it's achieved must be so frustrating.

It is. Experienced it a couple of times and sometimes there was no confirmation of a decision you just worked it out based on what seemed to be happening and the scoreboard not updating. I hate VAR and that's one of the main reasons. Taken away a lot of the fun

klose

MD1990 wrote: »

If Man Utd players had not complained so much goal would have stood.

This Livarpool thing can stop. It cost us our only dropped points against Utd & it tried again today.
Calvert Lewin goal stood recently against Utd when he used his arm.

City getting plenty of Var call recently too. Wolves (Mahrez dive) Pen, Aguero goal(ref obstructs Shef Utd player), Palace (No Pen) yesterday.

The whole Livarpool thing and this whole out to help liverpool win the league nonsense is stemmed from faceless Twitter accounts that can spout as much nonsense as they like for 1000s of RTs. I doubt any level headed person actually believes the rubbish you'd hear and read about VAR and liverpool.

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

United seem such a mess,
Sky and BT is full of Oles ex team mates who won't call him out and then the like of Evra and Rio want jobs at the club as sporting directors and what not so they don't call out the owners or Woodward,
The whole place such seems a mess

How do you know rio and evra want the job as sporting director??

Cantona's Collars

8-10 wrote: »

It is. Experienced it a couple of times and sometimes there was no confirmation of a decision you just worked it out based on what seemed to be happening and the scoreboard not updating. I hate VAR and that's one of the main reasons. Taken away a lot of the fun

Yet we have people arguing the semantics over VVD challenging De Gea yet before var it was a free out any day of the week, what's changed?
Anytime we ever saw a challenge on a keeper it was a free out yet suddenly people are getting their knickers in a twist.

klose

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Yet we have people arguing the semantics over VVD challenging De Gea yet before var it was a free out any day of the week, what's changed?
Anytime we ever saw a challenge on a keeper it was a free out yet suddenly people are getting their knickers in a twist.

I think regardless if it's a free out or not how keepers can essentially throw themselves to the ground after the slightest contact from an attacker and win a free out how to be the most rubbish aspect of the game for years now (that's not in reference to van Dijk and de gea, just in general)

Fromvert

klose wrote: »

The whole Livarpool thing and this whole out to help liverpool win the league nonsense is stemmed from faceless Twitter accounts that can spout as much nonsense as they like for 1000s of RTs. I doubt any level headed person actually believes the rubbish you'd hear and read about VAR and liverpool.

The people who say it are either an idiot or a troll.

If you actually wanted to fix a league, one with no reviews would be much easier. Every corner kick you could find a penalty or free out if you really wanted to.

theoneeyedman

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

VAR in the EPL is a mess. We as fans who have the benefit of seeing replays on TV if we aren't at the game can't agree on what's what is bad enough but imagine being in the stadium going wild and then getting confirmation of a decision without seeing as to why it's achieved must be so frustrating.

Refereeing in the EPL is a mess, and has been for years. None of the top referees in Europe are English. Games officiated much better in Europe, much easier to con EPL referees into penalties etc than in Europe. Also, pundits like Rio and Glenn Hoddle on commentary who cover games with their own teams involved, sh1te talking about individual calls doesn't help either.

I don't know why lads are getting so exercised about this call, only difference it made is whether Liverpool won by 2 or gave United a good beating. In the bigger scheme of things it doesn't matter a jot. If anything, it keeps Ole in the job for longer where if Liverpool had given them a hiding he'd have been under pressure.

8-10

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Yet we have people arguing the semantics over VVD challenging De Gea yet before var it was a free out any day of the week, what's changed?

The ref saw nothing wrong with it though. With VAR that was overruled when a subsequent goal was scored. Before VAR it was a goal.

Guy:Incognito

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I don't know why lads are getting so exercised about this call, only difference it made is whether Liverpool won by 2 or gave United a good beating. In the bigger scheme of things it doesn't matter a jot..

I'm sure it was great being a Newcastle fan in the Keegan era and not worrying about conceding 2 or 3 as long as you score 3 or 4.

Problem is, eventually you stop scoring more than you concede and its **** all use going "****, maybe we should have had a look at the defence " and trying to change it fast because now its an issue.

Iused2likebusts

The limited bunch of burnley players pull it out of the bag again. Great achievement if they stay up again.

ShamoBuc

MOTD2
"Burnley outnumbering Leicester in the box with 4"
Leicester had 5 there but whatever Danny.
He really hasn't a clue.

The_Kew_Tour

Sheffield United with another terrific result yesterday.

Good effective side and can play

Shanotheslayer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

If there's contact and the player doesn't touch the ball it's generally a foul

I actually didn't think it was a foul but this has given me pause for thought, I guess as it wasn't shoulder to shoulder its a foul, interesting one though, very weak goalkeeping all the same even if VVD is a man beast

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

MOTD2
"Burnley outnumbering Leicester in the box with 4"
Leicester had 5 there but whatever Danny.
He really hasn't a clue.

Danny really does try his best to be the worst pundit on television at times

LuckyLloyd

.G. wrote: »

Yeah its great isn't it. The best thing about Uniteds demise is that loads of their heroes from their best years are all actively campaigning for a fella who is way out of his depth to stay as a manager cos he's their mate. Marvellous stuff.

These truly are glorious days.

Adamcp898

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I actually didn't think it was a foul but this has given me pause for thought, I guess as it wasn't shoulder to shoulder its a foul, interesting one though, very weak goalkeeping all the same even if VVD is a man beast

And just like the DCL one; weak goalkeeping does not mean a goalkeeper can’t be fouled.

VvD jumps to disrupt DdG, not to win the the ball. He’s on the way down before the ball even reaches the pair of them and he makes contact with de Gea who is obviously genuinely trying to claim the ball.

I honestly don’t see what the hoo ha is about. It’s an obvious foul. All the guff from pundits is part “I need to be contrarian to be controversial in order to keep my job” mixed with part “it wuz different in my day when men wuz ‘ard”



And I remember many Liverpool fans here who agreed that DCL fouled de Gea that day to boot.

gimli2112

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Yet we have people arguing the semantics over VVD challenging De Gea yet before var it was a free out any day of the week, what's changed?
Anytime we ever saw a challenge on a keeper it was a free out yet suddenly people are getting their knickers in a twist.

I think the issue we have is the ref didn't call a foul in real time and VAR
overuled it. I do think it was a foul, the problem here is a weak ref and the fact the VAR official was from Manchester.

ThunbergsAreGo

gimli2112 wrote: »

I think the issue we have is the ref didn't call a foul in real time and VAR
overuled it. I do think it was a foul, the problem here is a weak ref and the fact the VAR official was from Manchester.

I can totally see why VAR gave it, but the referee didn't (or did he give advantage)

My question would be about phasing as Lindelof had the ball under control and Ballsed it up. I couldn't believe how bad it was from him

Are you now better as a defender if the ref gives a bad advantage just kicking it in your goal or stopping playing as opposed to a hurried clearance that might lead to a pressure throw in etc (exaggerated of course)?

ebbsy

De Gea was not strong enough. Didn't punch it, couldn't catch it.

He made a mess out of it.

Cantona's Collars

8-10 wrote: »

The ref saw nothing wrong with it though. With VAR that was overruled when a subsequent goal was scored. Before VAR it was a goal.

Why did he put his whistle to his lips only to take it away? Did he cop out of the decision? It certainly looked like it.

8-10

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Why did he put his whistle to his lips only to take it away? Did he cop out of the decision? It certainly looked like it.

Yeah maybe he wanted VAR to make the call as he wasn’t 100%

He certainly didn’t think it was a clear foul.

I get why it was given, just seems soft and we see that time and again with keepers.

Just a shame that such a great strike got chalked off

noodler

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah maybe he wanted VAR to make the call as he wasn’t 100%

He certainly didn’t think it was a clear foul.

I get why it was given, just seems soft and we see that time and again with keepers.

Just a shame that such a great strike got chalked off

I don't see the point in this.

The ref, with a worse view than VAR, made a mistake.

VAR corrected it as it is there to do.

Nijmegen

Personally I don't think it's a foul, but it's one of those calls that could go either way and as a Liverpool fan I'd admit that if it was the other way round we'd probably be leaning on the other side of the margin. What I do like is that at least it was VAR getting involved in a considered on-field call about a foul rather than checking to see if someone's pinkie is offside and ruling out what would otherwise have been let go in the past. Too many good goals being scratched off for that rather than actually looking at a contentious situation. In that sense it was VAR doing its job, and for any individual team you'll win some and you'll lose some.

yourdeadwright

noodler wrote: »

I don't see the point in this.

The ref, with a worse view than VAR, made a mistake.

VAR corrected it as it is there to do.

Strangely enough the ref yesterday who let it go was in charge of VAR when the Everton goal was given against De Gea,

I guess its down to personal opinion by the ref's

8-10

noodler wrote: »

I don't see the point in this.

The ref, with a worse view than VAR, made a mistake.

VAR corrected it as it is there to do.

I don't think VAR should be there at all

gimli2112

I think in terms of consistency it was right to disallow the goal. Goalkeepers do need to be protected because if they're not where do you draw the line. You'd have defenders body charging them into the net.

Peatys

It was the difference between 2-0 and 3-0..
We're not going to be relying on goal difference to win this league.

8-10

Peatys wrote: »

It was the difference between 2-0 and 3-0..
We're not going to be relying on goal difference to win this league.

I think the score could have been more than that if it went 2-0 in the first half.

de Gea kept them in it with the Henderson and Mane saves, the Henderson one was ridiculously good

yourdeadwright

As a Liverpool Fan I have to say Fred looked pretty good, he seems to have got loads of stick but I thought he was really good yesterday seems to have turned a corner

Also any time I watch you lot play Maguire is second best to Lindelof

Shaw is another that always seems to have a good games against Liverpool ( Young used to be the same)

AWB was a shambles yesterday second half but I do think he is normally very solid defensively but seemed to easy for Liverpool to double up on him, Strangely enough is was Robbo more than Mane who gave him a hard time

Fitz*

On field ref thought it was no foul. I'd rather if VAR just told him to have a look at the incident again, instead of just telling the on the field referee that he was wrong (in the VAR referee's opinion).

If the on field ref had looked at the incident again at the pitchside monitor, and then decided that it was a foul, then it would a lot easier to accept the decision. Instead it's just 2 different opinions from 2 different referees, but the 2nd one always gets the louder shout.

gimli2112

I actually thought there had to be daylight between players for offside and the attacking side gets the benefit. I appreciate now this is not the case but think they need to look at the offside rule.

Shanotheslayer

FitzShane wrote: »

Instead it's just 2 different opinions from 2 different referees, but the 2nd one always gets the louder shout.

Yeh but the idea is the 2nd referee has looked at replays etc so it should be the correct decision.

Altho I agree, I think the refs just need to look at the pitch side monitor

Fitz*

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Yeh but the idea is the 2nd referee has looked at replays etc so it should be the correct decision.

Altho I agree, I think the refs just need to look at the pitch side monitor

It's still subjective which is the difference. One referee could tend to let more physical tackles slide in one game overall, where another will give a card for every foul. Context within a given game, and all that.

In theory, there are inconsistencies game to game but the referee will be consistent in the one singular game. Having 2 different referees in the same game add to the inconsistency.

Harry Palmr

Relegation table wasn't sure where to make the cut point so odd is the table but 10 points spread in January seems about right. That said Newcastle are only just above and terrible form.

citytillidie wrote: »

27 Burnley
26
25 Brighton
24
23 West Ham Watford
22 Villa
21
20 Bournemouth
19
18
17 Norwich

The last 6 form table is strongest for Watford and West Ham, weakest for Bournemouth and Burnley.

Four of these sides meet on Tuesday Bournemouth v Brighton and Aston Villa v Watford with another pair of six pointers for following full match day - Bournemouth v Aston Villa and West Ham v Brighton

This is it

It was a foul for me. VVD didn't get the ball and jumped into DDG.

DrumSteve

The way I look at it, I would have been bulling if Allison got tackled like that and we got nothing.

Did think there probably should have been a few more yellows for how they got up in the ref's face though.

5starpool

I don't really think it was a foul, but I'd have been surprised if VAR didn't overturn it, such is the over protection goalies get.

bangkok

5starpool wrote: »

I don't really think it was a foul, but I'd have been surprised if VAR didn't overturn it, such is the over protection goalies get.

he jumped into the goalkeeper who was trying to catch the ball. its a foul everyday of the week

8-10

bangkok wrote: »

he jumped into the goalkeeper who was trying to catch the ball. its a foul everyday of the week

Ref didn't think so.

mayordenis

Meh, I think it was a foul, but only just, about 55/45. People saying he jumped into DDG are kind of being dishonest, he jumped up for the ball, and they touched, it wasn't some big collision, just on the edge of being enough for a foul.