General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Skylinehead

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Trophies. There isn't one for going undefeated.

Oh but there is!

yourdeadwright

have a front 3 who've scored more goals than Salah, Mané and Firmino this season.

The above is just hilarious stat even if its not correct as of now ,

I think 10 goals came against Chlochester, Rochdale ,Alkmaar (twice) Partizan(twice) Astana (twice)

While Liverpool's under 12s played there cup games and they played Champions league football not Europa muck ,

8-10

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Lloris was captain, he plays for Spurs.

I meant United captain....seems he's not that either though...but point stands best player has been out injured most of the season so far.

citytillidie

Saturday 7 March 2020
12:30 Liverpool v AFC Bournemouth (BT Sport)
17:30 Burnley v Spurs (Sky Sports)

Sunday 8 March 2020
14:00 Chelsea v Everton (Sky Sports)
16:30 Man Utd v Man City (Sky Sports)

Monday 9 March 2020
20:00 Leicester v Aston Villa (Sky Sports)

Saturday 14 March 2020
12:30 Watford v Leicester (BT Sport)
17:30 Aston Villa v Chelsea (Sky Sports)

Sunday 15 March 2020
14:00 West Ham v Wolves (Sky Sports)
16:30 Spurs v Man Utd (Sky Sports)

Monday 16 March 2020
20:00 Everton v Liverpool (Sky Sports)

Friday 20 March 2020
20:00 Spurs v West Ham (Sky Sports)*

Saturday 21 March 2020
12:30 Chelsea v Man City (BT Sport)*
17:30 Liverpool v Crystal Palace (Sky Sports)*

Sunday 22 March 2020
14:00 Leicester v Brighton (Sky Sports)*
16:30 Southampton v Arsenal (Sky Sports)*

*Matches subject to FA Cup participation

This is it

8-10 wrote: »

Imagine supporting a team who is:

- one spot off CL qualification in January
- favourites for the Europa League
- in the League Cup Semi Final
- against lower league opposition in next round of FA Cup
- have a front 3 who've scored more goals than Salah, Mané and Firmino this season
- have a world cup winning captain to return from injury
- about to spend 60m+ on a promising Portuguese midfielder

...and complaining about management destroying the club, singing about killing executives and wanting to oust a club legend from being manager after less than a year

Obviously I don't agree with the chants but if you can't see for yourself why there's descent in the United crowds there's no one here that has a hope of explaining it to you.

Agent Coulson

Man U fined £20k for failing to control there players after the Firmino goal when they all charged the ref.

They should have all been booked as well that would have been good use of VAR.

Manchester United have been fined £20,000 for failing to ensure their players "conducted themselves in an orderly fashion".

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51236270

citytillidie

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Man U fined £20k for failing to control there players after the Firmino goal when they all charged the ref.

They should have all been booked as well that would have been good use of VAR.



https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51236270

Keeper was booked

gimli2112

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It's clear as day they have no interest in the footballing side of things, take a look at Tampa Bay Buccaneers as an example of a team they have destroyed.

that's not entirely true although I only read about it recently. They were an expansion team in the 70s and an absolute turd. Malcolm Glazer bought them in the mid 90s and made some good changes, they won a superbowl in 2002 and have been dogsh** ever since, with the Glazer familly showing no inclination to change things.
Malcolm himself (on a superficial examination at least) seems to have been a rather nice and decent individual

~Rebel~

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If he wasn't an ex player and someone told you United are getting a manger on the back of wining back to back titles in Norway you'd think it was a joke

TitianGerm wrote: »

What the feck was I reading then yesterday? The fecking article said Molde hadn't won a league during his time there!!

Edit: it was about his return to Molde after Cardiff.

Exactly... his title winning spell was back in 2011 and 2012... from his return in 2014 onwards they did nothing. Molde were apparently close to sacking him when Utd swooped in. His replacement immediately destroyed the league, winning by 14 points.

Salary Negotiator

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly... his title winning spell was back in 2011 and 2012... from his return in 2014 onwards they did nothing. Molde were apparently close to sacking him when Utd swooped in. His replacement immediately destroyed the league, winning by 14 points.

Pretty clear what happened then, Ole laid the groundwork for his successor to be successful.

He’s doing the same thing now at United

Harry Palmr

Imagine thinking that staging a walk out on the 58th minute would be an appropriate gesture to protest against the Glazers.

https://twitter.com/R_o_M/status/1220814212420816898?s=20

Guy:Incognito

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly... his title winning spell was back in 2011 and 2012... from his return in 2014 onwards they did nothing. Molde were apparently close to sacking him when Utd swooped in. His replacement immediately destroyed the league, winning by 14 points.

They won it by 11 the year before he took over too.

Drumpot

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Imagine thinking that staging a walk out on the 58th minute would be an appropriate gesture to protest against the Glazers.

https://twitter.com/R_o_M/status/1220814212420816898?s=20

The only thing that surprises me about it is how quickly things appear to be escalating. I mean if they had been doing this all year and were now trying out this you might understand but it’s going from doing nothing to a very public showing at a commemorative match.

I am not sure what to think about it but I’m not sure how anybody could judge fans for being so despondent. It really is irrefutable at this stage that the owners are absolutely toxic sports owners on both sides of the pond. United is financially as big as Barca and Madrid, they sack managers for not winning a league or champions league, United owners can’t even use the clubs resources to maintain a top 4 spot in the league. Even Leicester have won a league and will of finished in the top 4 as manfully times as united the last 7 years of united don’t get top 4 this season. That’s just diplorable mis management on any barometer.

On one level the United fanbase (my fanbase) have been Pathetic at responding to the damage being done to the club by the owners. Certainly online, the most I’ve done is complain a lot about the owners so I’m not much better but I’m not gonna delude myself that just maybe if we get another quality manager it just might work out.. There is too much emphasis being placed on managers, any of the top clubs doing even just decent have the foundations in place to help most decent managers thrive or perform well. We don’t have that so a good manager joining a bad club is destined to under perform.

Even on United forum threads (here and elsewhere) people prefer to spend the time whinging about managers even though they know there are much bigger problems. Whinging about a manager online is as likely to change anything as whinging about the owners.

If nothing else if every fan in the world was whinging about the Glazers online and on Twitter it would be in the papers. It would be making headlines. But instead our sad neutered fan base focus on the glazers most recent scapegoat because they will take any breadcrumb of hope offered at this stage.

The more I think about it, the more right this walk out feels. Seems like many modern fans don’t have the stomach for things to get worse before they get better and worry more about how things look then actions happening to force change. I hope this is the beginning of the end for the glazers, I don’t see United winning a league or champions league while they have a man running the club who has said that on field performances won’t effect the club’s profitability.

JohnnyFlash

What’s the issue with the Glazers anyway? They’ve given United managers enormous sums of money to spend on players and their salaries.

United have just spent enormous sums of money on average and poor players. Poor Ole is the latest dude being blamed. As if all the results on the pitch are down to him, and the enormous team of assistants, coaches, and statisticians have no input into what happens.

United fans were used to success and now they don’t have any. So now they want to stage a silly walkout like a bunch of spotty teenagers storming out of a room. It’s not going to take 20 years and 40 transfer windows to sort this. It’s going to take faith in one manager and his back room team.

I think fans have to take some blame as well. Old Trafford has never had a good atmosphere due to its location and design, but the place is a joke for the past few years. Staging a petulant walkout isn’t going to help. Man up and support your club.

Drumpot

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What’s the issue with the Glazers anyway? They’ve given United managers enormous sums of money to spend on players and their salaries.

United have just spent enormous sums of money on average and poor players. Poor Ole is the latest dude being blamed. As if all the results on the pitch are down to him, and the enormous team of assistants, coaches, and statisticians have no input into what happens.

United fans were used to success and now they don’t have any. So now they want to stage a silly walkout like a bunch of spotty teenagers storming out of a room. It’s not going to take 20 years and 40 transfer windows to sort this. It’s going to take faith in one manager and his back room team.

I think fans have to take some blame as well. Old Trafford has never had a good atmosphere due to its location and design, but the place is a joke for the past few years. Staging a petulant walkout isn’t going to help. Man up and support your club.

Any idiot can spend money, but only a special kind of idiot can spend hundreds of millions and fail to even meet relatively reasonable levels of success in the sport. The club has been very active and involved in the squad we have had Over the last 7 years and this has been endorsed by the owners , spending money isn’t a sign of support, it’s a sign they’ve done something but for what purpose has not always been clear. Getting what the first team needs (experience or character) doesnt always seem to be a priority.

Why haven’t Barca or Madrid go through periods of decline like United? (United can spend as much). Why can most other decent clubs spend less and have any manager really do better then most managers united hire?

The owners/Woodward decide who will manage a club but they also decide how that manager will Be supported . They also should decide what the clubs long term strategy and philosophy is and have a functioning transfer policy but it’s not even clear they have done that. Would city or Liverpool or even Leicester or spurs fans swap owners/CEO? Of course they wouldn’t because they have clubs that have built a football structure that helps them to make good use out of their resources.

Throw Klopp or Pep into United , do you think they mirror succes they achieved at their other clubs? Not a chance, no more then watching Klopp trying to succeed under Hicks and Gillette.

Have a look at Glazers American football team. Our stadium is literally falling apart alongside our team, the owners are absolutely terrible.

Throw Klopp or Pep into United , do you think they mirror succes they achieved at their other clubs? Not a chance, no more then watching Klopp trying to succeed under Hicks and Gillette.

Had to read this twice. Do you believe the stuff you are writing. Utd owners plough money into the club. Spend more on players bar City. Successive managers alongside Woodward spending it poorly.

These Gillette and Hicks comparison is bizarre btw. Chalk and cheese.

Drumpot

6 wrote: »

Had to read this twice. Do you believe the stuff you are writing. Utd owners plough money into the club. Spend more on players bar City. Successive managers alongside Woodward spending it poorly.

These Gillette and Hicks comparison is bizarre btw. Chalk and cheese.

How is it decided how the money is “ploughed into the club”? So you don’t think they are responsible for the state of the club? Just really unfortunate that every manager they pick and every player they buy fails? But once money is spent they’ve done their job? Give me a break.

Did you know United’s wage structure, while 2nd highest in the world (apparently) is only higher (from wage to turnover perspective) then spurs in the EPL. Now the problem is how their spending the money , not how much they are spending, but it shows that proportionate to the Clubs financial capacity they aren’t pushing the boat out that much.

gimli2112

Hicks and Gillette were long gone when Klopp arrived or am I missing a point? I think Pep or Klopp would make a better stab at Utd than anything that's gone on since Ferguson. Thankfully that assertion is unlikely to ever be put to the test

Drumpot

gimli2112 wrote: »

Hicks and Gillette were long gone when Klopp arrived or am I missing a point? I think Pep or Klopp would make a better stab at Utd than anything that's gone on since Ferguson. Thankfully that assertion is unlikely to ever be put to the test

The point was that Klopp wouldn’t of been able to succeed like he is now under Gillette and Hicks. It’s not just Klopp as Rogers nearly won the league with your current owners so it’s not all Klopp. You either get an Alex Ferguson who can work with our clowns or you have a well functioning club and bring in a quality coach to make the most out of those resources.

You can’t say “well united spend hundreds of millions” and then not ask “why are they spending so much and doing so badly”. I’m not really sure what any fan falls to see what’s wrong with the Glazers. Swap in any idiot to United, changing nothing financially and they could hardly do a worse job with how the funds have been wasted.

And like I said, look at their American football team, they have form at ruining clubs. Spending the clubs own money does not make owners good.

The idea that you Pep or Klopp couldn't do a better job is bizarre point number 2. The two current best around. Give me a break.

pjohnson

6 wrote: »

The idea that you Pep or Klopp couldn't do a better job is bizarre point number 2. The two current best around. Give me a break.

Do you think they could turn Lingard into De Bruyne or Firmino (Pool dont really play an attacking midfielder but Firmino dropping deeper probably closest)

Drumpot

6 wrote: »

The idea that you Pep or Klopp couldn't do a better job is bizarre point number 2. The two current best around. Give me a break.

What’s bizarre is that I never said that.

Drumpot wrote: »

Throw Klopp or Pep into United , do you think they mirror succes they achieved at their other clubs? Not a chance, no more then watching Klopp trying to succeed under Hicks and Gillette.

gimli2112

Drumpot wrote: »

And like I said, look at their American football team, they have form at ruining clubs. Spending the clubs own money does not make owners good.

I keep saying this but much like real life no-one listens to me on the internet. They didn't wreck Tampa Bay. TBB was a train-wreck before they got involved they actually turned it into a success albeit briefly and when it went to hell they just left it there.

I can't believe Utd is not fixable under the Glazers but understand why you'd want them out given their history.

The Glazers out campaign fell away when Utd were lifting trophies. Not surprise to see it resurface when things are going badly.

Didn't lads even stop supporting them when the Glazers took over? Even Fergie ridiculed those people.

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

How is it decided how the money is “ploughed into the club”? So you don’t think they are responsible for the state of the club? Just really unfortunate that every manager they pick and every player they buy fails? But once money is spent they’ve done their job? Give me a break.

And yet the fans backed the removal of their predecessors. Can't help but not feel sorry for them. If you forgive the pretentiousness of Shakespeare...

'A horse! A horse! A kingdom for my horse!'

The only response from the fans is sack the manager and get rid of the owners.

Any club that appointed a rookie after considering LVG and Jose failures deserves EVERYTHING they get

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Do you think they could turn Lingard into De Bruyne or Firmino (Pool dont really play an attacking midfielder but Firmino dropping deeper probably closest)

Never said that but they would certainly improve them. If they couldn't then what's the differences between them and Solsksaer!

Drumpot

gimli2112 wrote: »

I keep saying this but much like real life no-one listens to me on the internet. They didn't wreck Tampa Bay. TBB was a train-wreck before they got involved they actually turned it into a success albeit briefly and when it went to hell they just left it there.

I can't believe Utd is not fixable under the Glazers but understand why you'd want them out given their history.

I’m no American football fan (so you can correct me to be fair) but over the years , anytime I go into a glazer rant I find it very easy to find links to their USA team that mirrors United and shows how bad they are, from the actual sport side of things.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/2019/11/22/tampa-bays-12-year-drought-can-only-be-blamed-on-ownership/

I think relative to the size of the club and it’s financial muscle, while the headline spending and salary is crazy, it’s not that impressive relative to the clubs resources. I think it’s more then enough to be in top 4 every season and prob putting in a decent challange for CL but the fact it’s not and has not been happening for nearly a decade has to mean they are incompetent at using our clubs finances on the football side.

They only see the club as an ATM, the value has been increasing annually in spite of our on field demise. Why do you think they will make any changes anytime soon when they are making so much money? They don’t care and only something remarkable will change that. If it’s fans making a public show of dissent then so be it.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet the fans backed the removal of their predecessors. Can't help but not feel sorry for them. If you forgive the pretentiousness of Shakespeare...

'A horse! A horse! A kingdom for my horse!'

The only response from the fans is sack the manager and get rid of the owners.

Any club that appointed a rookie after considering LVG and Jose failures deserves EVERYTHING they get

Not all fans backed the sacking of Jose. That should of been the last straw but the owners have spent the last 18 months pushing another purge narrative. It’s like they don’t care about the team, want to retain control over the even the footballing side (so no DOF) and think throwing the clubs money at players will compensate for their total lack of understanding of the sport while they play football manager.

gimli2112

I'm no expert myself but TBB has the worst record of any US sport franchise, they were particularly brutal when they launched in the 70s. Glazer bought them in the mid 90s when they were going nowhere. Within 5 years he had them challenging and subsequently won a super bowl . He also did great work integrating it with a disinterested fanbase. I'd say as he got older he took less of an interest and his sons had more influence but this is a guess.
Yes they've been awful for more than ten years now with no end in sight

Drumpot

gimli2112 wrote: »

I'm no expert myself but TBB has the worst record of any US sport franchise, they were particularly brutal when they launched in the 70s. Glazer bought them in the mid 90s when they were going nowhere. Within 10 years he had them challenging and a super bowl win behind them. He also did great work integrating it with a disinterested fanbase. I'd say as he got older he took less of an interest and his sons had more influence but this is a guess.
Yes they've been awful for more than ten years now with no end in sight

There’s just nothing really to give us any real hope. The most experienced managers we had alluded to money men (not people with football knowledge) being in positions that is effecting the squad and the club culture.

Again, if any other owner came in and didn’t change anything financially , didn’t even pump anymore money in , could they actually do a worse job with the amount of money being spent?

One of the biggest issues as I see it is that they don’t have any worries. They really don’t have to worry about how the team does on the pitch so they are under no pressure to change things. I imagine the liverpool owners see success and football style as important to their model and it shows how much work they have put into implementing that strategy. I hope it’s forces United to follow suit on some level because all our lads seem to be good at is getting more noodle Sponcors.

Regardless of how good Pogba is (or how right or wrong this view is) , I don’t find it coincidental that Uniteds most expensive signing ever is one of the most popular online football players. Given our owners, there is no reason to dismiss this theory with absolute confidence.

Drumpot

6 wrote: »

Never said that but they would certainly improve them. If they couldn't then what's the differences between them and Solsksaer!

Nobody is arguing that they are not superior coaches. I am saying if they have to work with The Muppet show at United, they will struggle to emulate the success they have had at Liverpool and City. Since united have the funds to match and possibly even spend more then these clubs it suggests our owners/Woodward are probably our biggest problem and any manager coming in will struggle to make it work.

United don’t deserve to be near the top of the league and it’s not that they have a Devine right to be always up there but they have the finances to make it happen. The fact they can’t or won’t change things is the responsibility of those running the club. Choosing Ole was the responsibility of those running the club. This whole “owners don’t pick the first team” argument is a red herring. Owners can have a huge positive/nagative influence on the football team which in turn can allow a team to thrive or fail relative to the resources it has at its disposal.

United don’t even need billionaire owners, all we need is owners with the vision of Liverpool’s or Leicester’s to take over. Leave the debt in the club, just restructure how the footballing side of the club is run and we are effectively Liverpool/Leicester with a bigger budget.

.G.

Saudis were linked with United weren't they?

May be buying Newcastle instead.

Saudi Arabia’s sovereign-wealth fund is in talks to buy U.K. Premier League soccer team Newcastle United F.C. for about £340 million ($445 million), according to people familiar with the discussions.

The buyer is the Public Investment Fund, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s key investment tool, together with a group of investors organized by British financier Amanda Staveley, the people said. A final deal could be days or weeks away, the people said. The tentative deal could still break down.

The seller is British businessman Mike Ashley, who bought the team in 2007 for 134 million pounds, and turned into one of the least popular owners in English soccer.

The acquisition would be a major coup for Saudi Arabia as it focuses on sports and entertainment as part of Prince Mohammed’s economic reform plans for the kingdom.

It could also mean a big infusion of capital into Newcastle akin to Abu Dhabi’s 2008 acquisition of Manchester City. Since then the city-state, capital of the United Arab Emirates, has spent over a billion pounds to amass playing talent, renovate the team’s facilities, and turn City into an era-defining team in the English Premier League.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-sovereign-wealth-fund-in-talks-to-buy-u-k-soccer-team-newcastle-united-11579950242

gimli2112

It's funny but the two clubs I genuinely don't want to be taken over by the Saudis is us and Utd although for very different reasons. They can have Newcastle.

Drumpot

.G. wrote: »

Saudis were linked with United weren't they?

May be buying Newcastle instead.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-sovereign-wealth-fund-in-talks-to-buy-u-k-soccer-team-newcastle-united-11579950242

Yeh , some weird stuff last year in particular with that Saudi lad tweeting things about United as if they had as good as bought the club.

gimli2112 wrote: »

They can have Newcastle.

Id rather not be owned by the saudis cause I fundamentally hate what these guys are doing to the sport and why they are using clubs. But I understand why fans would be excited by it.

.G.

It'll most likely be the latest in a long line of links that someone somewhere is benefiting from but will most likely result in nothing.

Bridge93

Easier for United fans to turn their nose up at potential buyers as you’d imagine ultimately with a club of that size someone else will come along.

Having said that as a Newcastle fan, who has suffered so many nearly sells by that arsehole Ashley, I really don’t want this to happen

Money is destroying the game but if the games gone that way ‘if you can’t beat them, join them’. the Reason I don’t want this is I’d be really uneasy with getting into bed with Saudi Arabia

ERG89

.G. wrote: »

It'll most likely be the latest in a long line of links that someone somewhere is benefiting from but will most likely result in nothing.

Mike Ashley always seems to be on the verge of selling in transfer windows, are you on only allowed sell clubs in January or the summer too??
Although with Saudi's sportswashing incentive he has found people more repulsive than him.

As far as United go if they are high on Deloitte's money league the Glazer's won't be going anywhere as they are still generating money. If they start getting beaten consistently off the pitch by Liverpool or City they may cash in. United are valued in billions so it may be hard to find someone to buy in to that. They got in at a snip when Magnier & McManus left the club under public circumstances.

Harry Palmr

I've always found the lack of activity regarding Newcastle odd - not many clubs are as well positioned. Big city which is footie mad, just one club in the professional leagues, 50,000+ capacity. If you wanted to build club rather than rescue one you'd pick the Magpies for 350 million than Man Utd for 3 billion

Agent Coulson

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've always found the lack of activity regarding Newcastle odd - not many clubs are as well positioned. Big city which is footie mad, just one club in the professional leagues, 50,000+ capacity. If you wanted to build club rather than rescue one you'd pick the Magpies for 350 million than Man Utd for 3 billion

Maybe it say something about the north east.


Both Newcastle and Sunderland could be both for relativity cheap prices for football clubs both with huge followings and one city clubs.

Both clubs could and probably should be main stays in the PL instead of being yoyo and crisis clubs.

gimli2112

If you said to the Saudis they could own Sunderland or Newcastle they'd think you were just making up words. They understand something like Utd, that it's big and expensive and they can own it.

Drumpot

gimli2112 wrote: »

If you said to the Saudis they could own Sunderland or Newcastle they'd think you were just making up words. They understand something like Utd, that it's big and expensive and they can own it.

It’s kind of weird that the other lads bought City when you think about it. Prob wouldn’t of worked out much more expensive buying United considering all the money they have pumped into City and you have a massive audience/fanbase ready to get on board.

City still can’t even fill out a smaller stadium for some big champions league games. I find that odd in that in the 90s you would hear city fans profess how there were more city then United fans in Manchester and yet city can’t even fill a stadium half its size (even if you factor in tourists) when they are winning leagues regularly.

Harry Palmr

I think the stadium was the clincher - they spent just 20m adapting it (with the council picking up another 20m) and now have a facility that would cost 500m at least on a 250 year lease at 300,000k a year which does the bottom line a lot of good.

I expect the Saudi's, if they do get a deal done, will look to revive the glory days of Keegan's Newcastle with lots of eye catching transfers and an expansive brand of football.

Harry Palmr

I could watch this all day



(credit to a chap named Thrush on Red and White Kop)

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I could watch this all day



(credit to a chap named Thrush on Red and White Kop)

At the risk of looking thick. What do the numbers represent?

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At the risk of looking thick. What do the numbers represent?

Yeah I assumed it was just going to be points but its a percentage of something?

And no constant zero either.

Harry Palmr

Its pretty close to the actually table as you'd expect after this many weeks, the data is based on an alternative league table which assigns a weight to home/away v so called top teams v the rest

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Its pretty close to the actually table as you'd expect after this many weeks, the data is based on an alternative league table which assigns a weight to home/away v so called top teams v the rest

Not sure I follow, but it has last year's runners up "10" somethings very much ahead so I'm all for it.:D

Peatys

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Its pretty close to the actually table as you'd expect after this many weeks, the data is based on an alternative league table which assigns a weight to home/away v so called top teams v the rest

I don't even understand the explanation...

Drumpot

Peatys wrote: »

I don't even understand the explanation...

I get that it’s a graph, that needs to Be watched , that shows how much more awesome Liverpool have consistently been in comparison to everybody else this year but asides from that

A Dub in Glasgo

Looks great all the club crests floating about, what does it mean? other than of course, the league in England is a one horse race this year