General Premier League Thread 2019-20

Dr. Bre

Now we have the FA cup disruption on weekends. Always thought it should be run on midweeks like copa del Rey in Spain , the German cup and French cup also midweeks. Unfortunately the FA still think it’s a huge trophy cos it’s the oldest cup competition

Adamcp898

Trigger wrote: »

Heston confirmed out for season now

Shame too, I really enjoy his crazy ice cream recipes.


Also, the last few pages of selective adjectives to describe the transfer of possession from one individual to another, as well as distance, are hilarious from the usual suspects. Feel sorry for Burnley though, there aren’t even any of their fans on this forum to wind up.

Too much money being made for the FA to scrap the festive/new year fixtures, especially with little else football going on in Europe. All eyes are on it.

Can't see it going anywhere.

SlickRic

FitzShane wrote: »

There is a difference between a long pass to feet which a player can control in order to create a chance for a teammate and a long ball to a head hoping it will fall beside a teammate who can then create a chance.

of course there is. and those calling Liverpool a 'long ball' team as an attempt at an insult, know there is too.

best to just leave it.

ebbsy

FitzShane wrote: »

They best option is to get rid of the 2 leg semi final of the League Cup. Move a PL game away from 2nd - 10th January week and move it to the end of January midweek League Cup slot. Replays are already gone from this, which is a step in the right direction. Replays should remain in the FA Cup though, imo. The really smaller clubs rely on replay/away game income.

Most of the major leagues in Europe have done away with their League Cup, and the fact that the semis are over 2 legs is completely bizarre.

Chesty08

.G. wrote: »

Must be very frustrating to watch this if your a City fan or "neutral" hoping for dropped points, expecting a tough test for Liverpool, its been like a training exercise in all truth. They haven't laid a glove on the Reds.

This was being a Liverpool fan last year on the run on.

The only hope we had was when Leicester were holding home until Kompany did something he never done before. We waited an age for a match like that for them. Difference this time is Liverpool have a cushion, City had none

Jelle1880

ebbsy wrote: »

Most of the major leagues in Europe have done away with their League Cup, and the fact that the semis are over 2 legs is completely bizarre.

I think doing away with it is a bit much. But why not look into what they do in Scotland, meaning the League Cup is decided in November.

It keeps it intact but out of the way for the latter stages of the season.

Shanotheslayer

A funny thing last night was comparing Jack Charltons team to Klopps current team.

The funniest thing last night was somebody then going onto the Liverpool superthread to say this to round up the troops.

Incredible.

rob316

I wouldn't mind but the last 2 rounds of games were fairly poor, no energy from most sides. Lots of lazy tackles, bad touches and **** finishing.

You have people still saying "poor them paid 100k a week and asked to play 3 times in 7 days". They aren't robots, their bodies get tired especially in the modern game which requires a lot of running. I doubt there is a more physically demanding schedule than there is for professional footballers in England.

Diggy78

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

A funny thing last night was comparing Jack Charltons team to Klopps current team.

The funniest thing last night was somebody then going onto the Liverpool superthread to say this to round up the troops.

Incredible.

You really think people don't just read both threads? No summoning going on, a ridiculous comment just being brought to the Liverpool thread for its humour factor, similar to how you just opened your message.

pjohnson

I still dont get where exactly "long ball" became such a taboo/insult.

Theres no bonus points to gain for possession stats or passes completed or length of pass etc.

You only get points by putting the ball in the net more times than your opponent. Whether that comes after a 40 pass move all around the opposition half or after a single pass that covers most of the pitch. Either way its only the one goal you get at the end of the move.

Iused2likebusts

rob316 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind but the last 2 rounds of games were fairly poor, no energy from most sides. Lots of lazy tackles, bad touches and **** finishing.

You have people still saying "poor them paid 100k a week and asked to play 3 times in 7 days". They aren't robots, their bodies get tired especially in the modern game which requires a lot of running. I doubt there is a more physically demanding schedule than there is for professional footballers in England.

Under no circumstance should a team ever have to play 2 games in 48 hours its an absolute joke.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

I still dont get where exactly "long ball" became such a taboo/insult...

You don't get why lumping it into the air hoofball is considered fairly basic and a Neanderthal tactic?

Because that is what long ball implies. It is very different to long passes, swift counterattacks etc. It is trying to get snow on the ball. Take the wiki description...

"In association football, a long ball is an attempt to move the ball a long distance down the field via one long aerial kick from either a goalkeeper or a defender directly to an attacking player, with the ball generally bypassing the midfield. Rather than arrive at the feet of the receiving attacking player, the attacker is expected to challenge the opposing defence in the air, with other attacking players and midfielders arriving to try and take possession of the ball if it breaks loose. In Continental Europe the style is called kick and rush.

rob316

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Under no circumstance should a team ever have to play 2 games in 48 hours its an absolute joke.

Ya its ridiculous, there isn't any recovery time there. City playing 3 games in 5 days, it shouldn't be happening.

Trigger

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Shame too, I really enjoy his crazy ice cream recipes.


Also, the last few pages of selective adjectives to describe the transfer of possession from one individual to another, as well as distance, are hilarious from the usual suspects. Feel sorry for Burnley though, there aren’t even any of their fans on this forum to wind up.

Woops :pac:

Harry Palmr

Liverpool are to the long ball what Barca were to the short ball. Most of these balls are not hoofs they are passes with extreme prejudice.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't get why lumping it into the air hoofball is considered fairly basic and a Neanderthal tactic?

Because that is what long ball implies. It is very different to long passes, swift counterattacks etc. It is trying to get snow on the ball. Take the wiki description...

"In association football, a long ball is an attempt to move the ball a long distance down the field via one long aerial kick from either a goalkeeper or a defender directly to an attacking player, with the ball generally bypassing the midfield. Rather than arrive at the feet of the receiving attacking player, the attacker is expected to challenge the opposing defence in the air, with other attacking players and midfielders arriving to try and take possession of the ball if it breaks loose. In Continental Europe the style is called kick and rush.

In continental europe there are no pretty points either.

ERG89

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool are to the long ball what Barca were to the short ball. Most of these balls are not hoofs they are passes with extreme prejudice.

I'm kinda surprised it didn't come into fashion when most teams started playing with a high line & pushing up the pitch. Some teams were doing that 30 years ago. It doesn't really work unless you are really capable of winning lose or 2nd balls so it's less effective when using a big target man. Even with playing the style you cannot solely rely on it either as a lot of play moves through Firmino as well as so playing direct balls to Salah & Mane is an approach based on undetermined percentages.

Guy:Incognito

FitzShane wrote: »

. Replays should remain in the FA Cup though, imo. The really smaller clubs rely on replay/away game income.

You cant rely on something that might happen once in a generation for most .

Replays can kill the chance of a small club progressing in the cup. A conference side might put it up to a pl side in a once off and drag then to penos, but generally the pl side wont let it happen twice and will put out of stronger team in a replay.

Replays are for those living in the 80s ( like the gaa )

Adamcp898

Trigger wrote: »

Woops :pac:

Was only going to happen in fairness. Worked him too hard over the busy festive period :pac:

BullBlackNova

Nothing wrong with long ball football. There is no right way to play the game other than to win, basically.

If Liverpool put ten behind the ball and smashed it to Andy Carroll and won every time they went on the pitch, they might turn up a few noses but they'd be lauded too.

The initial point made last night that Liverpool's long passing to the front men is unusual in a top side is correct tbh. I wouldn't term it long ball as long ball implies some sense of hit and hope IMO, but long passing. Look at how TAA and Robertson switch the ball across the pitch to each other all the time to take advantage of space. It's a simple smart tactic - overload a team on one side to force them to over commit and defend there, then switch it to the space.

Maybe I'm being too generous by suggesting that the original comment wasn't setting out to criticise Liverpool (or at least not lambast them entirely) but some of the nonsense that followed and the comparisons to Big Jack are just laughable and it is very clear as to why by watching both teams for all of ten minutes.

And a last point - this suggestion that every time Liverpool fans start responding to Liverpool conversation on the general thread implies some instant messaging rallying of the troops is silly. I'm not sure what version of boards ye use but the one that I have has a ****ing alert system that tells me when someone has responded to a thread I post in. Shocking, I know, but I can keep on top of the posts pretty easily

Harry Palmr

Premier League's participation in the League Cup needs to end (the PL can throw X million into a pot to compensate). The FA Cup should ditch replays and to help every draw should allow the lower division team in a pairing to dictate whether they want the home advantage (and the TV money) or the cut from a PL sized crowd.

I see OGS is nominated for Barclay's public vote Manager of the Month, along with Klopp and Pearson.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Another long ball goal from Liverpool. It's a huge part of their game.

Long direct ball into the opposing half turning the opposition defenders and if the opposition get the ball press them. Nothing new or sophisticated about it but if it wasn't Liverpool and Klopp it could be getting a lot of negative commentary on it from pundits and punters that maybe other clubs would get.

Very effective football btw. As a neutral of EPL games I'm a big admirer of Kloppball.

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Nothing wrong with long ball football. There is no right way to play the game other than to win, basically.

If Liverpool put ten behind the ball and smashed it to Andy Carroll and won every time they went on the pitch, they might turn up a few noses but they'd be lauded too.

The initial point made last night that Liverpool's long passing to the front men is unusual in a top side is correct tbh. I wouldn't term it long ball as long ball implies some sense of hit and hope IMO, but long passing. Look at how TAA and Robertson switch the ball across the pitch to each other all the time to take advantage of space. It's a simple smart tactic - overload a team on one side to force them to over commit and defend there, then switch it to the space.

Maybe I'm being too generous by suggesting that the original comment wasn't setting out to criticise Liverpool (or at least not lambast them entirely) but some of the nonsense that followed and the comparisons to Big Jack are just laughable and it is very clear as to why by watching both teams for all of ten minutes.

And a last point - this suggestion that every time Liverpool fans start responding to Liverpool conversation on the general thread implies some instant messaging rallying of the troops is silly. I'm not sure what version of boards ye use but the one that I have has a ****ing alert system that tells me when someone has responded to a thread I post in. Shocking, I know, but I can keep on top of the posts pretty easily

The initial post was from myself and it's the one above; As you can see I finish the post with; Very effective football btw. As a neutral of EPL games I'm a big admirer of Kloppball

The comparison with Jack Charlton's Ireland is to do with the effective use of the long ball. There is a comparison there. Now there's a lot more to Liverpool than the long ball but it's definitely an important part of their game is the point I made. Some Liverpool fans seem to take offence to that point being made and to being compared in any way with Jack Charlton's Ireland team. Jack Charlton's Ireland teams did play some decent football at times btw and at their height were made up of players from the top teams in England including Man United and Liverpool.

The comment really is about drawing attention to the way Klopp and this Liverpool team will use long ball football whenever it suits them as a very effective tactic and that they don't feel barred from using direct tactics due to any snobbery you would often hear about styles in football. The fact that some take offence to it is amusing and predictable.

noodler

I gotta be honest.

I like the seasonal football and don't mind the players exerting themselves a bit extra for the benefit of the millions of working joes who have to go back to their average pay 9-5s after Xmas.

BullBlackNova

noodler wrote: »

I gotta be honest.

I like the seasonal football and don't mind the players exerting themselves a bit extra for the benefit of the millions of working joes who have to go back to their average pay 9-5s after Xmas.

My issue with the Xmas football is that by the end of the seasonal period, the quality has just nosedived.

Without getting too into the mechanics of the modern footballers fitness, what's the point in having four games on TV 3/4/5 times in the space of a week if the last few games are played with the pace, intensity and quality of a Sunday league tie?

I'm exaggerating, obviously, but I don't see why a solution couldn't be to reduce the number of games on each day and televise all of them. For e.g. 3 games each day from 26-29th (with four games one day), then again from the 30th-1st with an effort to tweak the fixtures so that those playing on the 26th are more likely to play the 30th.

Theres always going to be some discrepancy, I'd think, but it would mean one fewer game vs this years festive calendar for each team but no less televised sport for the masses.

Plus in 2 years, the world cup will obliterate the festive calendar anyway.

Cork Boy 53

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Premier League's participation in the League Cup needs to end (the PL can throw X million into a pot to compensate). The FA Cup should ditch replays and to help every draw should allow the lower division team in a pairing to dictate whether they want the home advantage (and the TV money) or the cut from a PL sized crowd.

I see OGS is nominated for Barclay's public vote Manager of the Month, along with Klopp and Pearson.

IMO just the clubs involved in European competition should not take part in the League Cup. All the rest should still enter the competition. The FA Cup has already gone down the road of abolishing replays after the 4th round and that will probably continue.

893bet

Keep involvement in the league cup! It’s a cup!

There is a chance of silverware and it’s over early.

Get rid of any two legged matches and replays/extra time.

Play the second team and give them a run at it if needs to be.

BullBlackNova

I always enjoy the League Cup more than the FA Cup. I feel like it has its own identity - played midweek under lights, usually involves lots of rotation and players you don't see elsewhere and it's over early in the season.

Early rounds of the FA Cup have a similar feeling when the PL sides enter and there is a lot of rotation and unique match ups but by the end of the season, it feels like a distraction for teams involved in other competitions etc.

It's a shame but it has just been dwarfed in importance for many sides. The top teams care more about CL participation or top four finishes, those further down the league are more concerned with survival than Cup runs, typically.

It's unfortunate but I find it very difficult to get excited about it most seasons.

Harry Palmr

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Plus in 2 years, the world cup will obliterate the festive calendar anyway.

I can't wait to see how that season pans out. For a generation there could be an mental asterix beside the winners of every competition and cup in 2022/23.

BullBlackNova

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I can't wait to see how that season pans out. For a generation there could be an mental asterix beside the winners of every competition and cup in 2022/23.

I would like to think that the PL will simply move the start and end of the season out by 2-3 weeks to accommodate for a lost month. Or that the international calendar would remove at least one international break between August and November to find space for displaced fixtures.

But that appears logical to me. So they'll probably just impose a festive style 3-games-per-week on every team for the whole season instead.

It will be interesting though. It has the potential to cause a total meltdown for some teams and huge opportunities for others. Could be a bonkers year for cup winners and final places if tbe top sides are decimated by tournament participation.

Or it could end with up everyone being like Sadio Mane this season. Bafflingly consistent despite not having a day off since about 2012.

5starpool

I'm not sure why the football league is so adamant that they won't abolish the 2 legged semi finals. They abolished the 2 legged early rounds not that long ago, same as Uefa abolished the two legged Uefa Cup finals years ago too. More demands on players means something has to give. If the hints teams are giving by making lots of changes (and not just the elite teams either) aren't enough to persuade the federations that something needs to give, then they have to accept there will be weakened teams, especially in early stages.

noodler

BullBlackNova wrote: »

My issue with the Xmas football is that by the end of the seasonal period, the quality has just nosedived.

Without getting too into the mechanics of the modern footballers fitness, what's the point in having four games on TV 3/4/5 times in the space of a week if the last few games are played with the pace, intensity and quality of a Sunday league tie?

I'm exaggerating, obviously, but I don't see why a solution couldn't be to reduce the number of games on each day and televise all of them. For e.g. 3 games each day from 26-29th (with four games one day), then again from the 30th-1st with an effort to tweak the fixtures so that those playing on the 26th are more likely to play the 30th.

Theres always going to be some discrepancy, I'd think, but it would mean one fewer game vs this years festive calendar for each team but no less televised sport for the masses.

Plus in 2 years, the world cup will obliterate the festive calendar anyway.

It's all relative for me.

If both teams are tired and they are both so what equally affected then the game is still nice and competitive.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

The initial post was from myself and it's the one above; As you can see I finish the post with; Very effective football btw. As a neutral of EPL games I'm a big admirer of Kloppball

The comparison with Jack Charlton's Ireland is to do with the effective use of the long ball. There is a comparison there. Now there's a lot more to Liverpool than the long ball but it's definitely an important part of their game is the point I made. Some Liverpool fans seem to take offence to that point being made and to being compared in any way with Jack Charlton's Ireland team. Jack Charlton's Ireland teams did play some decent football at times btw and at their height were made up of players from the top teams in England including Man United and Liverpool.

The comment really is about drawing attention to the way Klopp and this Liverpool team will use long ball football whenever it suits them as a very effective tactic and that they don't feel barred from using direct tactics due to any snobbery you would often hear about styles in football. The fact that some take offence to it is amusing and predictable.

The fact you take yet another ridiculous stance is amusing and predictable.

This the man who thought Martin O'Neil had Ireland playing like Barca (at least I know when I'm exaggerating..)

Harry Palmr

noodler wrote: »

It's all relative for me.

If both teams are tired and they are both so what equally affected then the game is still nice and competitive.

Tired players make errors that lead to injuries or they pull something. No accident that the physio room pile up is in January/February. Lots of shoddy football is no good other than for the inveterate slob on the couch in front of his 55" telly.

Shanotheslayer

What's the craic with the "Calender Year" record?

I always thought it went from Jan- Dec? Yet pages are saying Liverpool went a calender year unbeaten despite losing Jan 3rd 2019? Or is it because it's a year in the difference?

Just wondering as the only stat I can think off that was usually discussed for calender year was when Messi scored 92( I think) between Jan-Dec?

gimli2112

All I saw was people talking about it being a year since Liverpool got beat in the League. Didn't see anything mentioned about a calendar year but if it was, then this, as you have correctly pointed out, would be incorrect, thank you.

joe_99

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

What's the craic with the "Calender Year" record?

I always thought it went from Jan- Dec? Yet pages are saying Liverpool went a calender year unbeaten despite losing Jan 3rd 2019? Or is it because it's a year in the difference?

Just wondering as the only stat I can think off that was usually discussed for calender year was when Messi scored 92( I think) between Jan-Dec?

I haven't heard calendar year mentioned but I assume they mean one full year as per a calendar not season

Shanotheslayer

Joe.ie I believe had it up will try find the link again. Saw it mentioned elsewhere also.

Edit:

''SportsJOE.ie
7 hrs ·
Liverpool have been unbeaten for a whole calendar year in the Premier League.

Their last League loss came against Man City on January 3, 2019.

Dominant
''

Guy:Incognito

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Premier League's participation in the League Cup needs to end (the PL can throw X million into a pot to compensate). .

I dont see why.

Whats the point of having squads at all if theres nothing for some players to actually play games in. Theres keepers that would go years without a proper competitive game if it wasnt for cups. Young players too. Clubs can well afford big enough squads.

Premier league teams not in Europe already play 8 games less than the other leagues.

~Rebel~

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

What's the craic with the "Calender Year" record?

I always thought it went from Jan- Dec? Yet pages are saying Liverpool went a calender year unbeaten despite losing Jan 3rd 2019? Or is it because it's a year in the difference?

Just wondering as the only stat I can think off that was usually discussed for calender year was when Messi scored 92( I think) between Jan-Dec?

I think the one like that most being mentioned for Liverpool is the Rolling Year record. Which does what it says on the tin I suppose, what a team has done in any given 365 day period. City and Chelsea have the record of 102 points now, which Liverpool can break with 104 after the Spurs game if they keep winning.

BullBlackNova

noodler wrote: »

It's all relative for me.

If both teams are tired and they are both so what equally affected then the game is still nice and competitive.

In theory, yes. But look at two games this week:

United v Arsenal was great for 55 minutes and then neither side looked capable of moving and the players started cramping up and dropping like flies. No sense of competition there at all after the hour mark.

Liverpool v Sheffield United - Liverpool had barely mustered anywhere near their usual energy levels against Wolves and same last night, and Sheffield Utd werent a patch on how they had played in the last tie between them due to over tired and un rotated players. Again, no competitive game here bar maybe one or two Sheffield Utd chances but even Chris Wilder conceded they weren't up to their usual standard.

I get what you mean - it can be great for unpredictable results and if every team has the same disadvantage, what does it matter - but I just found this round of games in particular to have been scrappy and poor.

Chelsea v Brighton was woeful, Spurs looked half asleep in their game v Saints, Wolves looked a shadow of themselves after a rough run, and Newcastle lost four players to injury in the space of about fifteen minutes. I'm sure there was even more but I didn't catch every game!!

Harry Palmr

Villa have lost two players to long term injury, Arsenal lost Chambers for the season. It's been a bit of a "masacaree"

Guy:Incognito

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Villa have lost two players to long term injury, Arsenal lost Chambers for the season. It's been a bit of a "masacaree"

Have any of those been down to fatigue? Villas 2 were cruciates. 1 from a bad tackle and 1 a keeper trying to block a shot (not sure at what stage in the goal he got it)

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

The fact you take yet another ridiculous stance is amusing and predictable.

This the man who thought Martin O'Neil had Ireland playing like Barca (at least I know when I'm exaggerating..)

:pac: Typical and predictable hyperbolic response.

noodler

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Tired players make errors that lead to injuries or they pull something. No accident that the physio room pile up is in January/February. Lots of shoddy football is no good other than for the inveterate slob on the couch in front of his 55" telly.

That last bit is so weird.

You are literally describing (albeit in a ridiculous holier than thou fashion) 95% of football fans.

Don't make it sound like the people who watch don't matter. If they can find a way to make it a three day break for every team than fine but I wouldn't want to lose the glut of festive football.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: Typical and predictable hyperbolic response.

Ah now, I said I was exaggerating for effect.

What was your excuse!?

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

Ah now, I said I was exaggerating for effect.

What was your excuse!?

I'm not exaggerating. The point I make is a perfectly reasonable point. Liverpool use a lot of direct long ball football allied with hard working high press on the opponent in their play. Now they do get the ball down and play passing football as well especially when they get a foothold in a game but that hard work high press long ball into spaces and chase it style is there for all to see and is a big part in their play. I'm not slagging them for it but you appear to be taking offence. You're easily offended.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

I'm not exaggerating. The point I make is a perfectly reasonable point. Liverpool use a lot of direct long ball football allied with hard working high press on the opponent in their play. Now they do get the ball down and play passing football as well especially when they get a foothold in a game but that hard work high press long ball into spaces and chase it style is there for all to see and is a big part in their play. I'm not slagging them for it but you appear to be taking offence. You're easily offended.

What percentage of Liverpool's game would be the long hopeful punt up top to a big man as per the Big Jack era versus say composed long balls in behind for pacey and skilful attackers?

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

What percentage of Liverpool's game would be the long hopeful punt up top to a big man as per the Big Jack era versus say composed long balls in behind for pacey and skilful attackers?

I already responded to that point. You play to your strengths. Liverpool have pacy forwards so the ball is often (especially early in games) launched into space behind opposing defenders for their attackers to chase and get on the end of or just press the opponent high up the pitch and get second phase. If you've got a big centre forward then you can play a long ball to him and then pick up from his knock downs. Or you put it into spaces for other attackers to chase it. Same thing.

Liverpool play different types of football and the direct game is a big part of it. They are the European Champions so others will copy them. They'll have a big influence and you'll see other big clubs playing that style of football as part of their game as well. Wouldn't work very well in the world cup in Qatar that high octane energy sapping high work rate style but in most football conditions it's a style that a lot of teams can copy and will copy. High work rate is something that most teams can aspire to.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

I already responded to that point. You play to your strengths. Liverpool have pacy forwards so the ball is often (especially early in games) launched into space behind opposing defenders for their attackers to chase and get on the end of or just press the opponent high up the pitch and get second phase. If you've got a big centre forward then you can play a long ball to him and then pick up from his knock downs. Or you put it into spaces for other attackers to chase it. Same thing.

Liverpool play different types of football and the direct game is a big part of it. They are the European Champions so others will copy them. They'll have a big influence and you'll see other big clubs playing that style of football as part of their game as well. Wouldn't work very well in the world cup in Qatar that high octane energy sapping high work rate style but in most football conditions it's a style that a lot of teams can copy and will copy. High work rate is something that most teams can aspire to.

It's not the same thing tbh. One is percentage based where as one is actually a picked out pass to a player making a clever run.


Regardless, It's certainly something Liverpool do but it's a relatively small part of their game as the 1,000 passes thing last night would tell you.

Now you saying we do it on occasion is fine but clearly the inference was that it makes up a significant part of the game plan and that's hyperbole tbh.