Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours/Champions League Thread 2024/25

Patser

No argument, Palace want it so much more. Our lads are strolling

JPA

sc86 wrote: »

No surprise we are behind , what does smith be waiting for?

His subs are almost always reactionary.

sc86

Bit late now dean , its the 87th min

JPA

Davis and Wesley with 5 minutes left. :rolleyes:

matrim

3 strikers on with 5 minutes left. Reminds me of Bruce

Esse85

Watkins spends so much time on the floor.

Usual rubbish from us, nothing in central midfield, and highly ineffective wingers.

sc86

Our run of form since january is sackable.
Wonder are the owners tempted if they want to push on , smith is limited

CucaFace

Today is the perfect example of why Dean Smith isn't capable of bringing Villa any further up the table.

Pathetic game management from him today as is always the case with him.

Obvious changes should have been made at 60 minutes.

He will get next season im sure of it, but i really doubt he will be our manager for the start of the season after that, if our owners really do have the ambitions they announced last week.

Dean Smith is a very average and limited manager.

CSF

That was pathetic.

CucaFace

Esse85 wrote: »

Watkins spends so much time on the floor.

Usual rubbish from us, nothing in central midfield, and highly ineffective wingers.

Bar Grealish, any of the usual starting 5 midfielders including the wingers aren't good enough collectively.



First guy i would get rid of is AEG. Now he has scored a few goals we might catch someone to pay us a decent amount for him. His all round game is garbage and his set pieces are a joke.


Aldo Jacob Ramsey, what exactly does he bring to the side? He has played enough now and i can't see what his main attributes are as a CM player?

Patser

Just need this season over now, and to build on things.

It's been a good season all round, we're established now, but hopefully the last few months will have the silver lining of showing where the big cracks still are and what needs fixing now.

For me, it's central midfield. For all their buzzing around Luiz and McGinn offer very little presence. Nakamba is equally limited. We need a proper defensive midfield commander, one who takes control and breaks things up - we've Grealish their to create. But a Kante or a Roy Keane type, a midfield leader. Luiz is skillful but whinges a lot, and is still young enough to develope into that role I suppose, but McGinn is too light, same for Ramsey

LeBash

Not surprised we never get anything away in London.

Jack has played 23 games this season and we are 11th. We are way ahead of where we were last season.

2 PL teams had big Covid cases and both fell to bits after it.

CucaFace

Patser wrote: »

Just need this season over now, and to build on things.

It's been a good season all round, we're established now, but hopefully the last few months will have the silver lining of showing where the big cracks still are and what needs fixing now.

For me, it's central midfield. For all their buzzing around Luiz and McGinn offer very little presence. Nakamba is equally limited. We need a proper defensive midfield commander, one who takes control and breaks things up - we've Grealish their to create. But a Kante or a Roy Keane type, a midfield leader. Luiz is skillful but whinges a lot, and is still young enough to develope into that role I suppose, but McGinn is too light, same for Ramsey

Totally agree. We need an actual leader in there that wouldn't allow us to sit back like today against a terrible Palace side who we could have put to the sword until we allowed them to come into the game.



Also, we need a playmaker in there as well. Ideally someone who can actually take a set piece. I mean we get more of those then any team in the bloody league because of Grealish . The standard of set pieces in our team is terrible.

sc86

LeBash wrote: »

Not surprised we never get anything away in London.

Jack has played 23 games this season and we are 11th. We are way ahead of where we were last season.

2 PL teams had big Covid cases and both fell to bits after it.

Is that you dean

LeBash

sc86 wrote: »

Is that you dean

Just not overreacting to losing a game. Yeah, we probably could have won and should have won but the bug picture is we have seen genuine improvement year on year under Smith.

Patser

CucaFace wrote: »

Totally agree. We need an actual leader in there that wouldn't allow us to sit back like today against a terrible Palace side who we could have put to the sword until we allowed them to come into the game.



Also, we need a playmaker in there as well. Ideally someone who can actually take a set piece. I mean we get more of those then any team in the bloody league because of Grealish . The standard of set pieces in our team is terrible.

I wonder if we could push Konsa to defensive mid. He has all the perfect attributes - leadership, speed, strength, he can pass.

Sign a new partner for Mings, still have Hause as back up but push Konsa forward a bit?

Esse85

I wish Smith was more ruthless.

Too much sh1te around the club.

Davis and Wesley are absolutely not the answer, neither are AEG, Traore.

Luis and McGinn are squad players. Ramsey should go on loan next season. Nakamba may as well be sold.

Why does he persist is the same formation that's not working since January.

I'd not be in the Smith out camp, but this summer he really needs to strengthen in midfield and out wide.

sc86

LeBash wrote: »

Just not overreacting to losing a game. Yeah, we probably could have won and should have won but the bug picture is we have seen genuine improvement year on year under Smith.

This is since xmas , look at our form since , relegation stuff

Patser

Thing is Smith has shown season on season progress. Majority of his signings, even when seen as wastes or overpriced, have been spot on.

Look at the eye brows raised at Targett for £11million, Konsa the same (then seen as a youngster for the future), Matty Cash £14 million, Watkins £28 million.

I'm happy to trust Smith and his team over the summer to strengthen again

LeBash

Patser wrote: »

Thing is Smith has shown season on season progress. Majority of his signings, even when seen as wastes or overpriced, have been spot on.

Look at the eye brows raised at Targett for £11million, Konsa the same (then seen as a youngster for the future), Matty Cash £14 million, Watkins £28 million.

I'm happy to trust Smith and his team over the summer to strengthen again

We have a ton of academy players coming as well. We have owners with money that don't seem to be sticking their fingers in other than positively. The club is in an absolutely super place to kick on.

CucaFace

Patser wrote: »

Thing is Smith has shown season on season progress. Majority of his signings, even when seen as wastes or overpriced, have been spot on.

Look at the eye brows raised at Targett for £11million, Konsa the same (then seen as a youngster for the future), Matty Cash £14 million, Watkins £28 million.

I'm happy to trust Smith and his team over the summer to strengthen again

Buying of players is only part of the job. Here this has improved for sure on last season (and this may be down to Lange more then Smith, who knows).



Creating formations, setting teams up in different ways to better other teams, making tactical changes at the right times in the game are also part of being a good manager.



Can you honestly say Smith has done well with that?



Has he ever started a game playing anything other then a 451 formation?



He has been acting like its 1980 with regards to his squad utilization. He is actually worse then MON was at that which says a lot.



I like the guy and want him to succeed, but he is hugely limited as a manager and has been very lucky to have had a player of the quality of Grealish and owners who have backed him a lot (over 200 million spent to date).

CucaFace

LeBash wrote: »

We have a ton of academy players coming as well. We have owners with money that don't seem to be sticking their fingers in other than positively. The club is in an absolutely super place to kick on.

I agree, but the manager is a key element in kicking on from this position to the higher ones as most above us will spend the same amount each transfer window. And a guy so limited tactically is going to really struggle to make us break the next ceiling in the PL.

CucaFace

Also, if Jude Bellingham had come through the Villa youth team set up do you think he would actually have even been given his debut by now?

I have my doubts.

Chuke should have been capped weeks ago if Smith had a pair of b#lls.

Corholio

Not surprised to see overreactions about Smith sadly. Yes the team has tailed off, but it tailed from a high bar of overachieving for a lot of the season. The defence has been very solid since lockdown last year, the same people that gave zero praise to Smith for that will give the same this season so nothing changes there. Signings like Martinez, Cash and Watkins were all Smith signings no doubt, Villa reporters have said this too. Sticking with Targett when most, let's be honest, weren't.

The midfield is a problem though, Barkley hasn't worked out and no combination of current players there offers enough steel and protection. The defence has been even more outstanding because of that imo. Smith's tactical in running is quite questionable sometimes for sure, I think some games with different decisions may have had better outcomes. The team used to be in a position where everyone except Jack were questionable in their position, now I'd argue Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett, Jack and Watkins all are firm starters. If the club can do good business on improving the rest of the team then the progress, which some fans imo don't have a concept of anything other than 'instant', then the team should be in an even stronger place next year.

LowOdour

Looking at the comments on Smith and some of the players, I am curious as to what people are looking for? Genuinely interested to hear.

I agree we have been poor since January. But, i would take a 3 or 4 seasons of mid-table mediocrity before we start pushing for Europe straight away. If we see gradual improvement year on year for a few years, that would be greatl.

I think the Europa league is a curse unless you have a good squad like Arsenal or ManU, and we wont get to that level for quite a while, if ever.

Would love if we were like a Leicester who just manage to get alot of things right for a relatively small club, but they got lucky that the likes of Schmeichel, Vardy etc developed in to such top class players over the years.

JPA

Esse85 wrote: »

I wish Smith was more ruthless.

Too much sh1te around the club.

Davis and Wesley are absolutely not the answer, neither are AEG, Traore.

Luis and McGinn are squad players. Ramsey should go on loan next season. Nakamba may as well be sold.

Why does he persist is the same formation that's not working since January.

I'd not be in the Smith out camp, but this summer he really needs to strengthen in midfield and out wide.

More ruthless? In what way and when?

If there was a big clear out the players need to be replaced, it has to be a gradual progression towards squad improvement.

On Nakamba, yes he might as well be sold, because Smith doesn't seem to rate him. But I don't think he rates the pure defensive midfielder role at all.

For me, Luiz should be beside Nakamba (or another DM). It would free up the whole team.

CucaFace

LowOdour wrote: »

Looking at the comments on Smith and some of the players, I am curious as to what people are looking for? Genuinely interested to hear.

I agree we have been poor since January. But, i would take a 3 or 4 seasons of mid-table mediocrity before we start pushing for Europe straight away. If we see gradual improvement year on year for a few years, that would be greatl.

I think the Europa league is a curse unless you have a good squad like Arsenal or ManU, and we wont get to that level for quite a while, if ever.

Would love if we were like a Leicester who just manage to get alot of things right for a relatively small club, but they got lucky that the likes of Schmeichel, Vardy etc developed in to such top class players over the years.

A manager that would actually try something new and take a few risks with team selections and formations. How do you learn anything if you don't try it?

What did he have to really lose the last few weeks by trying something new? 2 hard games now left so no chance of trying out Chuke for example. He decided to keep pushing the Barkley experiment that had obviously failed months ago, rather then introduce a top quality home grown player.



451 no matter who we are playing. Same inability to alter games once the game has started as he is so scared to take a risk.



I have no doubt the club will improve during the summer with some upgrades on the way in. But that will be more down to the owners of the club reaching into their pockets again.



But where is the evidence that Dean Smith will be the type of guy to be able to use a better squad? Will he all of sudden realise 'oh wait i can actually make a change earlier in game before we are chasing a game with 10 mins left? Will he realise that there are actually other formations then 451?



My fear is that at most we have one more season to show Jack the club is progressing quickly enough that he may be able to stay as he can achieve something worthwhile at his home club. And i just can't see how a manager who is obviously so limited tactically (and please show me how this isn't true if you honestly believe it isnt correct) can bring any team into the top 8 without having some tactical intelligence.

LowOdour

CucaFace wrote: »

A manager that would actually try something new and take a few risks with team selections and formations. How do you learn anything if you don't try it?

What did he have to really lose the last few weeks by trying something new? 2 hard games now left so no chance of trying out Chuke for example. He decided to keep pushing the Barkley experiment that had obviously failed months ago, .

How many managers are trying "new things" in the league. Very few id say... too much at stake. It sounds great in theory, but very little substance behind it. Id rather stick with what we have and have a better chance of winning last few games, than trying new things and increase chances of losing.

If we played some youngsters and lost the last few game's, do you think Smith would be given a pass? No chance.

We have had some woeful managers over a long period... If Smith gives us stability for a few years without pulling up tress, ill take that.

It will be years, if ever, before Villa give Grealish the platform to play at a really high level, so he will leave because he has to, not because of what Villa might do over the next 2-3 years with Smith in charge.

I 100% agree on Barkley though...has been generally poor.

Esse85

2 wins in 12 for Villa.
Joint top of losing the most points from winning positions in all four English divisions in 2021.

In 17th position in 2021

Really needs to sign some vocal leaders in his recruitment this summer.

Players and manager are too nice.

CucaFace

LowOdour wrote: »

How many managers are trying "new things" in the league. Very few id say... too much at stake. It sounds great in theory, but very little substance behind it. Id rather stick with what we have and have a better chance of winning last few games, than trying new things and increase chances of losing.

If we played some youngsters and lost the last few game's, do you think Smith would be given a pass? No chance.

We have had some woeful managers over a long period... If Smith gives us stability for a few years without pulling up tress, ill take that.

It will be years, if ever, before Villa give Grealish the platform to play at a really high level, so he will leave because he has to, not because of what Villa might do over the next 2-3 years with Smith in charge.

I 100% agree on Barkley though...has been generally poor.

So no other managers in the league change formations from game to game based on who they are playing and what players are available to them?



I don't think expecting a manager to change how a team sets up from game to game isnt asking too much.



Smith playing the youngsters and losing would have brought him far less criticism then what he has done in reality.

Panrich

Our midfield let us down today.

Our entire first team squad of midfielders are small in stature and without elite speed. We cannot recover in time to protect the defence when we inevitably turn over possession cheaply. We also cannot cope with big physical teams like Palace who basically figured out that they were stronger and faster than we were.

sc86

Esse85 wrote: »

2 wins in 12 for Villa.
Joint top of losing the most points from winning positions in all four English divisions in 2021.

In 17th position in 2021

Really needs to sign some vocal leaders in his recruitment this summer.

Players and manager are too nice.

Theres no getting away from these stats.
I want him to be a success , and u hope he does.
Mayby he is slow to make changes because he has no faith in his players on the bench?
These bad runs become habbits and you dont want this run to go into next season.
He deserves time , but it depends on the owners and what they want , if they sack him and bring in a real top level manager who could complain?

Patser

CucaFace wrote: »

Buying of players is only part of the job. Here this has improved for sure on last season (and this may be down to Lange more then Smith, who knows).



Creating formations, setting teams up in different ways to better other teams, making tactical changes at the right times in the game are also part of being a good manager.



Can you honestly say Smith has done well with that?



Has he ever started a game playing anything other then a 451 formation?



He has been acting like its 1980 with regards to his squad utilization. He is actually worse then MON was at that which says a lot.



I like the guy and want him to succeed, but he is hugely limited as a manager and has been very lucky to have had a player of the quality of Grealish and owners who have backed him a lot (over 200 million spent to date).

But the task Smith faced when he took over was far more than just buying a few players. The squad at the time was aging, and promotion was gained through a combination of loanees, players ending contracts and Smith's tactics.

Last year we barely survived but also had 3rd lowest wage bill in league, and squad still needed further overhaul.

This season we now suddenly have one if the youngest squads in the league, an incredibly solid base to build on, and are an established Premier League team (no scramble for survival). That's an incredible achievement. To almost completely change our squad in 2 1/2 seasons, while showing such progress and still with a relatively low wage bill and squad size.

This summer we can again lose some of the last pre-Smith squad - Taylor and Elmo have served us well, but are out of contract, Hourihane will probably move on. Add in a few of Smith's unsuccessful purchases - Guilbert, Engels. So hopefully that gives us more room and finances to advance again. And add proper depth.

Also Smith has shown he is willing to bring on young talent - unlike O'Neill - look at Ramsey and the match time he's getting. Konsa developed under Smith at Brentford and on again now. I'd trust Smith with those academy prospects too.





But yeah, he has to start making subs earlier, and getting better control and show initiative in changing a game.

Esse85

sc86 wrote: »

Theres no getting away from these stats.
I want him to be a success , and u hope he does.
Mayby he is slow to make changes because he has no faith in his players on the bench?
These bad runs become habbits and you dont want this run to go into next season.
He deserves time , but it depends on the owners and what they want , if they sack him and bring in a real top level manager who could complain?

I think you nailed it there by saying he has no faith in the players on the bench. That to me is why we rarely see changes and when we do, it's so late in the game.

From what we see of the owners, they have done everything right so far, I don't expect any rash decisions, pretty sure Smith said last week that 12th was the target, therefore he's most likely gonna finish ahead of target.

There's a lot of positives too let's not forget. He's done great work with Martinez, Cash, Targett, Konza, Watkins. Most of them have doubled in value if they were to be sold in the summer. Talks of the stadium capacity being increased, youth team has some real potential coming through. He's got a good relationship with Jack. Seems to be a positive atmosphere within the team and around the club.

I'm usually one to over react on here regarding players/manager after a poor defeat, but I'm firmly in the Smith "in" camp.

CSF

Smith in next season for me too but the jury remains out on whether he’s the one to take us forward. Let’s see what the summer brings.

Panrich

CSF wrote: »

Smith in next season for me too but the jury remains out on whether he’s the one to take us forward. Let’s see what the summer brings.

I’ve seen Brentford fans complaining that Smith would take them on long losing runs or at least long runs of poor form.

That has been replicated at Villa. There have been extended runs of games every season that have been very poor and he seems unable to turn them around quickly. As the quality of players improves that is less acceptable.

LeBash

This is going to be Smith first summer window with Villa where a plan has been able to be put in place long before the end of the season.

The bench today was poor, other than an unfit Jack, nobody there was going to change anything. I'd like to see Wes get 45 mins in the 2 remaining games to see if there is anything left or is he crocked.

CSF

Panrich wrote: »

I’ve seen Brentford fans complaining that Smith would take them on long losing runs or at least long runs of poor form.

That has been replicated at Villa. There have been extended runs of games every season that have been very poor and he seems unable to turn them around quickly. As the quality of players improves that is less acceptable.

This is all true but ultimately we have to judge him on where we finish at the end of the season, and we have progressed from underachieving Championship side to promoted Championship side under him, followed by him keeping us up and then moving to a nice comfortable upper midtable Premier League position that we haven’t seen since Houllier.

There is a fair bit that makes me nervous about him, but I’m hopeful that with a good summer window we can step onwards under him and become a top half Premier League team and hopefully more.

Esse85

Martinez called up to Argentina squad for next two WC qualifiers.

artanevilla

Himself, Grealish, Konsa and Targett are the four nominees for fans player of the year.

Martinez gets my vote.

Esse85

Brentford lost the first leg of the playoffs last night, if they don't get promoted you'd wonder would Smith make an early raid for Rico Henry.

Fits the profile, has worked with Smith before, young at 23, English. I'd be happy with him as backup and challenging Targett. Only issue is he's a Birmingham fan.

artanevilla

This day 5 years ago "Dr" Tony Xia took over the club.

Esse85

artanevilla wrote: »

This day 5 years ago "Dr" Tony Xia took over the club.

Heard some really dodgy stories about him on some of the villa podcasts over the years. We dodged a bullet with him when you consider how quickly the new owners came in and replaced him.

JPA

Esse85 wrote: »

Brentford lost the first leg of the playoffs last night, if they don't get promoted you'd wonder would Smith make an early raid for Rico Henry.

Fits the profile, has worked with Smith before, young at 23, English. I'd be happy with him as backup and challenging Targett. Only issue is he's a Birmingham fan.

He's probably too good/expensive to be back up.

I wonder what will happen Toney if they don't get promoted.

Esse85

JPA wrote: »

He's probably too good/expensive to be back up.

I wonder what will happen Toney if they don't get promoted.

Return to Newcastle, or the likes of Palace maybe.

JPA

Esse85 wrote: »

Return to Newcastle, or the likes of Palace maybe.

Will cost at least the same as Watkins

Esse85

JPA wrote: »

Will cost at least the same as Watkins

In a normal summer, I'd expect him to cost more than Watkins, he's a more natural goalscorer than Ollie, but given the lack of revenue the last 15 months, it's difficult to say.

sc86

Grealish starts

Patser

sc86 wrote: »

Grealish starts

Konsa at RB
Nakamba instead of Luiz

pavb2

Patser wrote: »

Konsa at RB
Nakamba instead of Luiz

Cash’s season comes to an end he’s been a good acquisition and still relatively young. I’ve no idea how we are going to perform this evening would probably take a draw at this stage.