RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

lmimmfn

I find this truly shocking that this is going ahead, on what level would this ever be acceptable to Irish people? It's disgraceful, FG should be destroyed in the next election.

Sean.3516

Bambi wrote: »

The RIC were brutalising their fellow countrymen long before the Auxies and Tans showed up. Tomas McCurtain, lord mayor of Cork murdered in his home in front of his family by RIC men.

I said earlier that the apologists like yourself want to reduce the War of Independance to a naitonal tragedy: all those poor lads died, oh its a tragedy.

It's not a tragedy. The tragedy was previous 100 years, a tragedy which the RIC paid a key role in inflicting on the Irish people. I'm supremely grateful to the men who took the fight to the Crown Forces and put enough of them in the ground to end the tragedy.

The real tragedy (and you’re gonna love me for saying this. Call me a westbrit/blueshirt if u will) is that the 1916 Rising ever took place.

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

With the House of Lords veto finally overruled in the early 1910s. Thanks to John Redmond, legal barriers to an Irish Parliament were removed. All we had to do was wait until World War One ended so the process could be finalised.

Then in 1916 Pearse and Connolly and their boys (who most certainly did not represent the majority opinion in Ireland at the time) decided to run a suicide mission and turn Dublin into a war zone over their “Blood Sacrifice” fanaticism.

The peaceful and dare I say honourable avenue toward Irish self-governance was blown to bits and we had to spend the next 6 years in a guerilla war.

(Note, I don’t make an idol out of the concept of a “Republic”. Self-governance was the goal. There’s nothing to say we couldn’t have become a Republic later by a Scottish style independence referendum, all without a shot being fired.)

Sean.3516

LuasSimon wrote: »

Fine Gaels pro British agenda will backfire for them in many marginal seats in the upcoming general election . Anyone with an ounce of Irish nationalism will vote anyone bar Fine Gael after this carry on .

I find it amazing how people see this “anti-Irish” attitude in Fine Gael simply because they take a mature view of history and don’t embrace all this “Ooh! Aah! Up the RA!” infantile rubbish.

CrankyHaus

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The real tragedy (and you’re gonna love me for saying this. Call me a westbrit/blueshirt if u will) is that the 1916 Rising ever took place.

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

With the House of Lords veto finally overruled in the early 1910s. Thanks to John Redmond, legal barriers to an Irish Parliament were removed. All we had to do was wait until World War One ended so the process could be finalised.

Then in 1916 Pearse and Connolly and their boys (who most certainly did not represent the majority opinion in Ireland at the time) decided to run a suicide mission and turn Dublin into a war zone over their “Blood Sacrifice” fanaticism.

The peaceful and dare I say honourable avenue toward Irish self-governance was blown to bits and we had to spend the next 6 years in a guerilla war.

(Note, I don’t make an idol out of the concept of a “Republic”. Self-governance was the goal. There’s nothing to say we couldn’t have become a Republic later by a Scottish style independence referendum, all without a shot being fired.)

That rather rosey analysis ignores the Home Rule Crisis provoked by the Ulster Unionists arming, mobilising and pledging violent resistance to Home Rule if it became law.
It also ignores the British indulgence of this blatant defiance of the law by the Ulster Unionists and the Curragh Mutiny that ensued when the British Government even suggested enforcing the law upon Ulster Unionists.

Millionaire only not

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The real tragedy (and you’re gonna love me for saying this. Call me a westbrit/blueshirt if u will) is that the 1916 Rising ever took place.

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

With the House of Lords veto finally overruled in the early 1910s. Thanks to John Redmond, legal barriers to an Irish Parliament were removed. All we had to do was wait until World War One ended so the process could be finalised.

Then in 1916 Pearse and Connolly and their boys (who most certainly did not represent the majority opinion in Ireland at the time) decided to run a suicide mission and turn Dublin into a war zone over their “Blood Sacrifice” fanaticism.

The peaceful and dare I say honourable avenue toward Irish self-governance was blown to bits and we had to spend the next 6 years in a guerilla war.

(Note, I don’t make an idol out of the concept of a “Republic”. Self-governance was the goal. There’s nothing to say we couldn’t have become a Republic later by a Scottish style independence referendum, all without a shot being fired.)

The above comment has nothing to do with the brutality of the English on Irish people with last 200 years

simongurnick

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The real tragedy (and you’re gonna love me for saying this. Call me a westbrit/blueshirt if u will) is that the 1916 Rising ever took place.

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

With the House of Lords veto finally overruled in the early 1910s. Thanks to John Redmond, legal barriers to an Irish Parliament were removed. All we had to do was wait until World War One ended so the process could be finalised.

Then in 1916 Pearse and Connolly and their boys (who most certainly did not represent the majority opinion in Ireland at the time) decided to run a suicide mission and turn Dublin into a war zone over their “Blood Sacrifice” fanaticism.

The peaceful and dare I say honourable avenue toward Irish self-governance was blown to bits and we had to spend the next 6 years in a guerilla war.

(Note, I don’t make an idol out of the concept of a “Republic”. Self-governance was the goal. There’s nothing to say we couldn’t have become a Republic later by a Scottish style independence referendum, all without a shot being fired.)

Wouldnt agree
Home rule had its limitations and there were several iterations that did not make it through both houses. So you think pearce should have just waited until after ww1 and essentially trust britain? How did that work out for collins and the treaty?
If we went down that road we would be like wales or even canada, with the queen on our currency.

Sean.3516

Millionaire only not wrote: »

The above comment has nothing to do with the brutality of the English on Irish people with last 200 years

Yes, you’re point being?

KWAG2019

LuasSimon wrote: »

Fine Gaels pro British agenda will backfire for them in many marginal seats in the upcoming general election . Anyone with an ounce of Irish nationalism will vote anyone bar Fine Gael after this carry on .

The mask has slipped on FG. They are not the party of Collins who ordered the killing of RIC/DMP. It is an extraordinary own goal but I am glad that there is no pretence possible now. They are a party for unionists in the Republic.

upupup

Its being talked about on rte1 now

buried

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I find it amazing how people see this “anti-Irish” attitude in Fine Gael simply because they take a mature view of history and don’t embrace all this “Ooh! Aah! Up the RA!” infantile rubbish.

The view of history Fine Gael have chosen to take is to commemorate a bunch of terrorist cowards who shot multiple volleys of machinegunfire indiscriminately into a crowd of innocent IRISH people watching a football match in 1920. Killing 14 innocent people and wounding over 60 others. People watching a football match. Think about that for a minute if you can. That's terrorism on a scale of total utter evil and the RIC were the terrorists responsible for it.

The Rape of Lucretia

Sean.3516 wrote: »

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

And gaining all that without having to pay the price of leaving the UK - 1916 was the greatest tragedy to happen Ireland, and the idolising of the hothead terrorist behind it is an insult to all that recognise that still.
It fine for those who didnt loose their lives to view those who did lose theirs, as a price worth paying.

Sir Oxman

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I find it amazing how people see this “anti-Irish” attitude in Fine Gael simply because they take a mature view of history and don’t embrace all this “Ooh! Aah! Up the RA!” infantile rubbish.

You mean whitewashing.
Get up and away and let the descendents of those in the RIC or DMP hold their ceremonies privately without the seal of approval from this state which the same RIC and DMP and their reserves fought against.


No problem commemorating those members who resigned on principle or spied for the Irish - the rest were traitors.

Odhinn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The real tragedy (and you’re gonna love me for saying this. Call me a westbrit/blueshirt if u will) is that the 1916 Rising ever took place.

We were on the cusp of having the Irish Parliament restored to us. The prospect of ending Westminster’s mismanagement of Ireland by restoring local governance. AND ALL WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

With the House of Lords veto finally overruled in the early 1910s. Thanks to John Redmond, legal barriers to an Irish Parliament were removed. All we had to do was wait until World War One ended so the process could be finalised.

Then in 1916 Pearse and Connolly and their boys (who most certainly did not represent the majority opinion in Ireland at the time) decided to run a suicide mission and turn Dublin into a war zone over their “Blood Sacrifice” fanaticism.

The peaceful and dare I say honourable avenue toward Irish self-governance was blown to bits and we had to spend the next 6 years in a guerilla war.

(Note, I don’t make an idol out of the concept of a “Republic”. Self-governance was the goal. There’s nothing to say we couldn’t have become a Republic later by a Scottish style independence referendum, all without a shot being fired.)

A complete failure of a man who wanted more say for the country in 'imperial affairs'.

Fr. Pat Noise

The ironic thing is that in the eyes of some of the last true republicans such as Tom McGuire our current security forces are no better than the RIC in that they administer the Irish Free state or so called 26 county Republic on behalf of the British. Maybe in 100 years time in a United 32 county Republic we can have the same debates about the army and guards! It would be funny if future generations saw our current situation as some sort of Vichy government.

Atlantic Dawn

Has nobody organised a protest against it?

tototoe

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I find it amazing how people see this “anti-Irish” attitude in Fine Gael simply because they take a mature view of history and don’t embrace all this “Ooh! Aah! Up the RA!” infantile rubbish.

Mature view of history... Seriously?

KWAG2019

The mindless self regard of unionist FGers claiming to have a mature view of history is typical of the type. Why is there a portrait of Collins in Varadkar’s office? Very “mature” ! Collins ordered the killing of RIC/DMP. He was right. The simple minded hypocrisy of FG. Party of landlords.

cryptocurrency

The fall out over this has been interesting and just goes to show all this talk about a united ireland is utter nonsense. We are as far from it now as we have ever been.

lmimmfn

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The fall out over this has been interesting and just goes to show all this talk about a united ireland is utter nonsense. We are as far from it now as we have ever been.

Completely different, a United ireland should be forward thinking and inclusive with a view to compromise, this commeration is the antithesis of this

KWAG2019

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The fall out over this has been interesting and just goes to show all this talk about a united ireland is utter nonsense. We are as far from it now as we have ever been.

The DUP are not expected to commemorate the PIRA. The people of South Armagh are not expected to commemorate the Glenane gang. Your version of a United Ireland is an utter nonsense. Expect people to lie down for a theoretical recon with the dead of the RIC. Who was going to Apologise on behalf of the RIC for their brutality and betrayal of Ireland? Utterly daft. If your idea of a United Ireland is based on this farce you are proposing you need to re imagine the shape of a UI.

cryptocurrency

lmimmfn wrote: »

Completely different, a United ireland should be forward thinking and inclusive with a view to compromise, this commeration is the antithesis of this

really? the meltdown it is causing so many show the country has so many small minded and backward types who are basically the DUP in the mirror.

United Ireland is miles away. I don't blame normal unionists to be concerned.

McMurphy

Eoghan O’Brien (Mayor of Fingal County Council) has become the latest politician who says he will boycott a commemoration.

Fairplay, I hope these announcements keep coming and coming.

Jinglejangle69

Ironic from Sinn Féin considering the amount of Irish people the PIRA killed!!

But it is a silly idea in fairness.

Just don't be hypocritical in your condemnation.

Sean.3516

CrankyHaus wrote: »

That rather rosey analysis ignores the Home Rule Crisis provoked by the Ulster Unionists arming, mobilising and pledging violent resistance to Home Rule if it became law.
It also ignores the British indulgence of this blatant defiance of the law by the Ulster Unionists and the Curragh Mutiny that ensued when the British Government even suggested enforcing the law upon Ulster Unionists.

I’m not saying that the passage of the Home Rule Bill negates the Unionist problem or British biases. There’s nothing to say that partition could not have taken place and therefore 2 parliaments. One in Belfast and one in Dublin. If the British were biased in favour of the North, surely they wouldn’t mind accommodating them.

And if it came to conflict then at least the conflict would be one in favour of enforcing rule of law and democratic norms as opposed to a a violent political revolution which flips the table on all of that. I’m not saying revolution is never necessary but it should always be a last resort.

lmimmfn

cryptocurrency wrote: »

really? the meltdown it is causing so many show the country has so many small minded and backward types who are basically the DUP in the mirror.

United Ireland is miles away. I don't blame normal unionists to be concerned.

This is revisionism, a United Ireland and the implications of that should be decided and debated if it is ever to go ahead, like I said compromising etc. and with a view to improving the lives of all moving forward.
This commemoration for those who were anti state is disgusting.
If we have to commemorate it for a united ireland so be it, that's acceptable but for the current government when partitioned to go ahead with this is not acceptable.

bobbysands81

Millionaire only not wrote: »

When was that motion put forward ?

Tonight and was passed 38 votes to 10.

cryptocurrency

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ironic from Sinn Féin considering the amount of Irish people the PIRA killed!!

But it is a silly idea in fairness.

Just don't be hypocritical in your condemnation.

they are always have commemoration for some ira head

cryptocurrency

lmimmfn wrote: »

This is revisionism, a United Ireland and the implications of that should be decided and debated if it is ever to go ahead, like I said compromising etc. and with a view to improving the lives of all moving forward.
This commemoration for those who were anti state is disgusting.
If we have to commemorate it for a united ireland so be it, that's acceptable but for the current government when partitioned to go ahead with this is not acceptable.

so you do nothing to acknowledge over 1 million on the island until the prize of a united is delivered.
That is why isn't not happening any time soon.

You just don't get it.

Fr. Pat Noise

Lorraine Clifford Lee is now on the bandwagon so it’s a lost cause now. We’ll probably find out shortly some other relative of hers was in Cromwells army

KWAG2019

cryptocurrency wrote: »

really? the meltdown it is causing so many show the country has so many small minded and backward types who are basically the DUP in the mirror.

United Ireland is miles away. I don't blame normal unionists to be concerned.

Lol