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RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

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    #3002
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Were the survivors asked about there experience,?

    Many did not talk much of the experience, I knew some of them, but the gist given to their families was that they respected the British forces and were treated fairly. Have you ever read any reports to the opposite? Even today there are thousands of Irish people in UK forces.


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    #3003
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Many did not talk much of the experience, I knew some of them, but the gist given to their families was that they respected the British forces and were treated fairly. Have you ever read any reports to the opposite? Even today there are thousands of Irish people in UK forces.
    Do you have a link to the interviews?


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    #3004
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    Many did not talk much of the experience, I knew some of them, but the gist given to their families was that they respected the British forces and were treated fairly. Have you ever read any reports to the opposite? Even today there are thousands if Irish people in UK forces.

    You made the claim I was asking you for evidence, you have none that's fine thanks.
    Just as an aside I see James McClean is still being subject to anti Irish abuse. You have a very rosy picture as to how the Irish were treated by the British. I had friends in the UK in the 80' s in Kilburn, a pub had a sign on the window 'No dogs, no blacks, no irish'. I don't have a photo of the sign but my claim of its existence is as valid as the claims you continually make.


    https://www.the42.ie/kick-it-out-condemns-disgraceful-anti-irish-and-sectarian-abuse-aimed-at-james-mcclean-4963667-Jan2020/


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    #3005
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Were the survivors asked about there experience,?are the interviews either in written format or voice recorded available?
    Think that there are photographs of a Loyalist lodge before and after the first Battle Of The Somme.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #3006
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Just as an aside I see James McClean is still being subject to anti Irish abuse. You have a very rosy picture as to how the Irish were treated by the British. I had friends in the UK in the 80' s in Kilburn, a pub had a sign on the window 'No dogs, no blacks, no irish'. I don't have a photo of the sign but my claim of its existence is as valid as the ..

    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign on the window in the eighties.
    As regards the abuse towards McLean, nobody would claim that of of millions of people in the UK, they are all Angel's. What about the people who were intimidated and burnt out of Ireland ?


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    #3007
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign on the window in the eighties.
    As regards the abuse towards McLean, nobody would claim that of of millions of people in the UK, they are all Angel's. What about the people who were intimidated and burnt out of Ireland ?

    Hi Fundi


    Do you have a link to the interviews you mentioned?
    Were they done through the folklore commission or the oral history network?

    We're they ever published?


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    #3008
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    fundi wrote: »
    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign on the window in the eighties.
    As regards the abuse towards McLean, nobody would claim that of of millions of people in the UK, they are all Angel's. What about the people who were intimidated and burnt out of Ireland ?

    Yes, let's talk about the victims of loyalist pogroms.


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    #3009
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign on the window in the eighties.
    As regards the abuse towards McLean, nobody would claim that of of millions of people in the UK, they are all Angel's. What about the people who were intimidated and burnt out of Ireland ?

    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign? Really can you tell me how you know? I can only assume you are claiming I or my friends are liars.


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    #3010
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    There was no pub in Kilburn with that sign? Really can you tell me how you know? I can only assume you are claiming I or my friends are liars.

    Do you have a photo of it? A link to a press report on it? And if one English person put up a sign like that in the eighties on the window of a pub, how many windows elsewhere in the UK did not have such signs?


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    #3011
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of it? A link to a press report on it? And if one English person put up a sign like that in the eighties on the window of a pub, how many windows elsewhere in the UK did not have such signs?

    Hi Fundi

    Do you have a link to the interviews you mentioned or do you know where they were published.


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    #3012
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Yes, let's talk about the victims of loyalist pogroms.

    Francie says that our unarmed Gardai would have easily defeated the 100,000 strong UVF in the event the British withdrew from Ulster completely in 1922.


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    #3013
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of it? A link to a press report on it? And if one English person put up a sign like that in the eighties on the window of a pub, how many windows elsewhere in the UK did not have such signs?

    Plumbthedepths has provided an anecdote. Surely you accept his veracity.


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    #3014
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Francie says that our unarmed Gardai would have easily defeated the 100,000 strong UVF in the event the British withdrew from Ulster completely in 1922.

    Could you link to the post where he said that please.
    Where were the interviews you mentioned published?


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    #3015
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of it? A link to a press report on it? And if one English person put up a sign like that in the eighties on the window of a pub, how many windows elsewhere in the UK did not have such signs?

    I already told you I didn't have a photo but I qualified my comment by saying my claim is as valid as any you have made. No idea on the rest of the UK could have been every other pub or none, just relying my friends experience in Kilburn.


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    #3016
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Hi Fundi

    Do you have a link to the interviews you mentioned or do you know where they were published.

    Read any account of experiences of the 100,000 or so Irish people who volunteered to help the British war effort in WW2. None complained they were used as "cannon fodder" or were treated unfairly.


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    #3017
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    Read any account of experiences of the 100,000 or so Irish people who volunteered to help the British war effort in WW2. None complained they were used as "cannon fodder" or were treated unfairly.

    So can you link some of those accounts you are referring too?


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    #3018
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Read any account of experiences of the 100,000 or so Irish people who volunteered to help the British war effort in WW2. None complained they were used as "cannon fodder" or were treated unfairly.

    do you have a link to such a collection of accounts or any idea where they were published; why are you refusing to answer such a straightforward question?

    could you please link to where FrancieBrady said that unarmed Gardai would have easily beaten the UVF.


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    #3019
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of it? A link to a press report on it? And if one English person put up a sign like that in the eighties on the window of a pub, how many windows elsewhere in the UK did not have such signs?


    Not very hard to verify the existence of this.


    Photo; Sign in a London window, 1950s, reading ‘No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs’. (© London Metropolitan University Library Services and Special Collections)

    IMAGE15_resize.jpg

    https://www.ashfordplace.org.uk/home/generations-learning-exhibition/struggles


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    #3020
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    What about the people who were intimidated and burnt out of Ireland ?

    Indeed it was terrible, I'm sure you are disgusted by what happened to these families.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/loyalists-attack-catholic-homes-and-churches-1.170886


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    #3021
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not very hard to verify the existence of this.


    Photo; Sign in a London window, 1950s, reading ‘No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs’. (© London Metropolitan University Library Services and Special Collections)

    IMAGE15_resize.jpg

    https://www.ashfordplace.org.uk/home/generations-learning-exhibition/struggles

    1 sign outside a digs in the 1950s is not the same as a sign outside a pub in the 80's, as was claimed.


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    #3022
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    1 sign outside a digs in the 1950s is not the same as a sign outside a pub in the 80's

    Do you have a link to the collection of interviews you mentioned or could you tell us where it was published.


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    #3023
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    1 sign outside a digs in the 1950s is not the same as a sign outside a pub in the 80's

    It is. Signs like these indicate the normality and casualness of discrimination and racism.


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    #3024
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Do you have a link to the collection of interviews you mentioned or could you tell us where it was published.

    Show me a post where I mentioned a collection of interviews, or even a post where I used the word interview.


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    #3025
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fundi wrote: »
    Show me a post where I mentioned a collection of interviews, or even a post where I used the word interview.
    Then what are you talking about when you say that there was no anti Irish discrimination in the British army?

    How do you know that?

    I don't mean to be unpleasant but you seem to be arguing in bad faith.

    Are you descended from RIC?


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    #3026
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    Read any account of experiences of the 100,000 or so Irish people who volunteered to help the British war effort in WW2. None complained they were used as "cannon fodder" or were treated unfairly.

    Where can one find these accounts?so far you have refused to say.


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    #3027
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It is. Signs like these indicate the normality and casualness of discrimination and racism.

    1 persons sign in a different era, old chap. It did not happen to a pub in the eighties. Plenty of other things happened to pubs in England like bombing of civilians by the lads you condoned.


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    #3028
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Then what are you talking about when you say that there was no anti Irish discrimination in the British army?

    How do you know that?

    fundl's opinion that the 'vast majority' of Irish people were against the Rising is based on conversations she had with older family members.
    Here opinion on this seems to be based on the same anecdotal sources.


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    #3029
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    1 persons sign in a different era, old chap. It did not happen to a pub in the eighties. .

    How do you know it didn't happen?


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    #3030
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    fundl's opinion that 'vast majority' of irish people were against the Risong is based on conversations she had with older family members...

    John Gibney of TCD (yes, I know!) would appear to agree with her, and it's not the first time I've heard it:

    https://www.independent.ie/incoming/just-why-was-the-easter-rising-so-unpopular-34563527.html


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    #3031
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    fundi wrote: »
    1 persons sign in a different era, old chap. It did not happen to a pub in the eighties. Plenty of other things happened to pubs in England like bombing of civilians by the lads you condoned.

    I can't say if these signs existed in England in the 80s, wouldn't be too hard to believe given how openly racist British society was at the time, but I can tell you there were signs like that at British bars in Spanish resorts in the 1990s.


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