RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG are so out of touch on this decade of centenaries that they ignored the fact that many many people DO CARE about how it is treated and care about the future of this island.

They have already had to embarrassingly take down a video they produced on 1916. Will their arrogance ever abate...doesn't seem so.

You mean many people here or "many" people you know. It's not and never will be an election issue. Aside from the fact the majority of voters do not engage with an election until the last two weeks, the only ones likely to to raise it will be the kind of people few people vote for.

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Corruption you only said. You conveniently left out that SF are claiming they want an Irish language act it is a game.
How much Irish does Michelle O'Neill or Mary Lou have?
Come on man you can not be that brainwashed?
It is window dressing.

SF are supposed to be in a power sharing arrangement but are playing games with the Unionists. As the Unionists are playing games with them.
For SF to be critical of corruption is a bit rich as well if you really think about it.
Given thier history and how they deal with 'issues internally' Denis Donaldson etc

SF are not a true opposition in the Dail they are only a quasi technical opposition as you know well, the hurlers in the ditch.
They can mention all thier 'out there' economic policies which they will never have to implement anytime soon in the ROI.
A real opposition in the Dail would have decent numbers. Independents in the Dail have more clout than SF.


Of course Sinn Fein do need to bring the Unionists on side because as another poster as rightly mentioned - this 50 plus one idea is a fantasy. It will not bring peace.
If you do not bring the majority of Unionsts on side it is nothing more than tiocfaidh ar la la land. Fantasy stuff.
Plus how is the Irish State going to pay for a UI the British pump Billions into it.
Practicalities should be spoken about not mtyhology.

Sinn Fein are now caught between a rock and hard place.
Trying to pander to hardliners old school republicans while trying to appear open and progressive. That has shown in the elections in the Dail and it has shown in thier antics in Sormont.

The Unionists in NI will be looking at the ROI and the reaction to this commemoration of DMP/RIC and what do you think they will think?

Yet the Queen of England has shook McGuinness's hand and even some Unionists have attended GAA matches.
But McGunness is seen by a traitor by the hardliners where the Republican willingness to compromise in 2020? It is not 1920 anymore.

ILA is about that parity of esteem that is in the GFA. Like your support of a unionist veto, it shows your true contempt for democracy.

Onca a UI comes about, the DUP will be in bed with FG. The wealthy will protect their own interests. As always.

The UDA are too busy murdering each other over drug dealing.

Republican compromise is in the GFA.

The problem is with unionists like yourself who are having a hard time dealing with the fact that the days of orange colonial dominance are gone.

is_that_so

JupiterKid wrote: »

I do understand the need to recognise the the complex role that men in the RIC and DMP played in the years of this country pre-Independence, and also the need to accommodate the unisonist perspective if we really want re-unification of this island in the medium to long-term...

...but this "commemoration" is simply is a step too far and the Govt will pay the price for this - amongst their many, many abject policy failures in housing, health and rural Ireland to name but a few - in the forthcoming GE.

I think they were "paying the price" long before you penned this reasoned post.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So the centenaries should only cover the Republican angle?
The Republicans treated as heroes martyrs the RIC remaining faceless and nameless? All just refereed to as British forces. Or erroneously as the Tans.

How is that conducive to a reconciliation of traditions, and a future peaceful UI?

Who said that?

What will not be 'conducive to a reconciliation of traditions' (is suppression and brutality a 'tradition' now?) is a dishonest pretending that we wish to commemorate what these forces did in any official way.

Nobody is whitewashing them out of history, if there were good men and women members, let them be honoured/celebrated. But do not ask that they be celebrated as organisations, that is asking people to lie, to appease unionism in the hope they will accept the wishes of a majority, when they have already agreed when signing up to the GFA to accept the democratic wish of all the people.

Nobody is asking Arlene or unionists to lie to us about how they feel about the British Army for instance.

Frozen Veg

Are we the tax payers paying for this sh1te?

gormdubhgorm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I do understand the need to recognise the the complex role that men in the RIC and DMP played in the years of this country pre-Independence, and also the need to accommodate the unisonist perspective if we really want re-unification of this island in the medium to long-term...

...but this "commemoration" is simply is a step too far and the Govt will pay the price for this - amongst their many, many abject policy failures in housing, health and rural Ireland to name but a few - in the forthcoming GE.

Well I have never voted FG in my life.
But this move by Leo has made me think fair play clever move - it makes the snakes come out from the grass. Tested the water for a UI as another poster has said.

There are who only think one way and are closed minded.

Prime among them SF:
They are always seem to be playing catch up -

Used to refuse to sit in the Dail - copped on slowly
Were anti power sharing in NI - eventually changed
Used to be completely anti EU - and changed thier tune there. Getting MEP's was good for the party image.

SF will eventually get into a 21st century mindset with these commemorations, but only when they know thier hardliners are ready.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

You mean many people here or "many" people you know. It's not and never will be an election issue. Aside from the fact the majority of voters do not engage with an election until the last two weeks, the only ones likely to to raise it will be the kind of people few people vote for.

I didn't say it would be an election issue, will it be in the minds of people as they go to vote? Judging from the reaction, almost definitely.

McMurphy

Charlie Flanagan on the Easter Lilly being worn.

Charlie Flanagan wrote:

“Before my colleague begins, is it in order for members, particularly Deputy Stanley, to wear emblems of the type that he is now sporting in the chamber? It’s not only himself but his colleague, Deputy Colreavy, too. Some members of this House may find the wearing of such emblems offensive,” said Charlie, requesting a report from the Ceann Comhairle on the long standing rules regarding the wearing of emblems.

Charlie Flanagan on the poppy.

Charlie Flanagan wrote:

My 24th consecutive year to wear the poppy at the cenotaph, Millview, Portlaoise. Ecuminical prayer service & wreathlaying at noon.

https://twitter.com/CharlieFlanagan/status/399495637185863680?s=19

Charlie might convince others that what he's proposing isn't a commemoration to the tans, but Charlie clearly has his stall layed out as to what side of history he favours.

Nift

jmcc wrote: »

So your cluelessness is without borders. How very progressive. The majority in the UK voted to leave the EU. When the majority of the Irish people voted for Ireland to leave another union, Ireland was subjected to acts of terror against the civilian population by the RIC, the Black and Tans and the Auxiliaries, and a war. But you and others want to celebrate the perpetrators of these war crimes and acts of terror (you are on the same side as John Bruton who said that the Black and Tans should be commemorated).

Regards...jmcc

Cluelessnes? I mean just cause you sign off your posts doesn't make you intelligent. He said we manage referendum better than English. It had nothing to ****ing do with what you are saying.

Jaysis you clearly can't read. Where did i say i want to celebrate anything? I am arguing that the hubaloo is an issue, and clearly its to placate future relations.

I mean its clearly showing how unready we are for a border poll, let alone a United Ireland. Its a ****ing joke how short sighted some Republicans are. Particularly considering SF have suggested alot of compromise is needed.

LuasSimon

Charlie Flanagan be standing for the DUP in the next Westminster Elections!

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What???

Who believes a UI will be a 'Catholic, green, Republic with a few Orange Prods tacked on' only the likes of the late Willie Frazer and other scaremongering belligerent Unionists?



How many republicans need to say that they have no problem whatsoever with Unionists celebrating the 12th and their culture before this oft quoted mistruth dies?

A UI needs to be honest, not some hat doffing place that appeases a Unionist's version of what happened.

Look you are being disingenuous. Hundreds if not thousands of comments all over here, reddit, the journal over the decade in regards to a United Ireland. Many would not be happy with any compromise. Have a read yourself. Its hardly restrcited to a willie frazer. I mean, ffs, the comments along these lines are on this ****ing thread.

Of course it should be honest and open. I think thats the whole point of the RIC thing, even if it has backfired.

A border poll passes, many Irish people think it will be an Irish Republic with the north tagged on. And then the orange lads can go home or give up. Thats, we can agree it seems, not going to happen. Fair enough. Spread that message to other less informed people like yourself.

SF in fairness don't.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say it would be an election issue, will it be in the minds of people as they go to vote? Judging from the reaction, almost definitely.

A media-led, drama queen protest by councillors in a wet week in January? It's even less important than just hating a party because they exist!

Sir Oxman

markodaly wrote: »

Even though this is a recommendation from an all-party committee?

The rest of your post is a reminder of why we won't have a UI within our lifetimes.

For the second time, that is not quite clear at this stage so stop using it as camouflage for FG.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

Cluelessnes? I mean just cause you sign off your posts doesn't make you intelligent. He said we manage referendum better than English. It had nothing to ****ing do with what you are saying.

Jaysis you clearly can't read. Where did i say i want to celebrate anything? I am arguing that the hubaloo is an issue, and clearly its to placate future relations.

I mean its clearly showing how unready we are for a border poll, let alone a United Ireland. Its a ****ing joke how short sighted some Republicans are. Particularly considering SF have suggested alot of compromise is needed.

There is honest compromise and abject and pathetic appeasement and lying.

Honest compromise includes: accepting the will of the majority at any given time to remain in the UK.
Shaking the hand of the titular Commander of the British Forces you fought against.
Taking responsibility for and apologising for various acts where innocent people died.
Surrendering your weapons to the satisfaction of the Independent Oversight Committee. etc etc.
A willingness to take part in a transparent Truth Process if all participants in the conflict take part.

Abject and pathetic appeasement: Ignore history to try and curry favour with Unionism or to gain political advantage over your opponents.

J Mysterio

The lack of basic knowledge of Irish history people have demonstrated in this thread is mind blowing.

jem

A few things:
Re Fg one must remember that traditionally there supporters have been the large farmers/ old Money.
John Bruton for example is from huge landowners in Meath whose family because of their wealth and influence would have been quite happy being still part of UK, and would have prefered if the war of independance had never happened at all. This is the case for many of the partys most influencial members

Secondly I firmly believe that this whole idea has been counter productive insted of the idea that it would show our maturity ( it wouldn't IMHO) it in fact brought up devisions and the hurt going back 100 years . It was IMHO an idea that should have been left as an idea.

ChikiChiki

McMurphy wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan on the Easter Lilly being worn.



Charlie Flanagan on the poppy.


https://twitter.com/CharlieFlanagan/status/399495637185863680?s=19

Charlie might convince others that what he's proposing is a commemoration to the tans, but Charlie clearly has his stall layed out as to what side of history he favours.

Genuinely disgusting. Flanagan is a good Irish name. Wtf is his agenda.

armaghlad

J Mysterio wrote: »

The lack of basic knowledge of Irish history people have demonstrated in this thread is mind blowing.

I know, some people can’t remember the last fifty years

FrancieBrady

Sir Oxman wrote: »

For the second time, that is not quite clear at this stage so stop using it as camouflage for FG.

Here is where it is said.

'Consideration should be given...'

There is NO recommendation to proceed with a commemoration, only that it should be considered.


https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Guidance2018/Guidance2018/index.html

Hamsterchops

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Genuinely disgusting. Flanagan is a good Irish name. Wtf is his agenda.

What's disgusting?

gormdubhgorm

McMurphy wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan on the Easter Lilly being worn.



Charlie Flanagan on the poppy.


https://twitter.com/CharlieFlanagan/status/399495637185863680?s=19

Charlie might convince others that what he's proposing is a commemoration to the tans, but Charlie clearly has his stall layed out as to what side of history he favours.

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Genuinely disgusting. Flanagan is a good Irish name. Wtf is his agenda.

Well if you look at it logically the Easter lilly used to be only associated with the Provos (and more recently INLA) who wanted to overthrow not only Britain but Dail Eireann. Without a mandate from the electorate.

Even in the 1930's FG AND FF tried to stop the sale of the Easter Lilly.
So it is hardly a new phenomenon that it is viewed as only not only anti Dail Eireann, but anti the state of Ireland as per Bunreacht na hÉireann.

As for the Poppy it commemorates WWI in particular many Irishmen fought in that war (about 200k in total) some for the Freedom of small nations, some also fought in the hope of getting Home Rule for Ireland. It is not completely anti Dail Eireann like the Easter Lilly has become viewed as.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

Look you are being disingenuous. Hundreds if not thousands of comments all over here, reddit, the journal over the decade in regards to a United Ireland. Many would not be happy with any compromise. Have a read yourself. Its hardly restrcited to a willie frazer. I mean, ffs, the comments along these lines are on this ****ing thread.

Of course it should be honest and open. I think thats the whole point of the RIC thing, even if it has backfired.

A border poll passes, many Irish people think it will be an Irish Republic with the north tagged on. And then the orange lads can go home or give up. Thats, we can agree it seems, not going to happen. Fair enough. Spread that message to other less informed people like yourself.

SF in fairness don't.

Name us one elected republican who would not be happy to compromise? Elected republicans have talked at length on what needs to happen for a successful UI to happen.

Hamsterchops

New National Anthem
New all inclusive flag.
Re joining the Commonwealth.
Non mandatory Irish in school..

Would Republicans countenance all of these?

Sir Oxman

markodaly wrote: »

They did actually.

From Wiki

Fill your boots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Ireland#The_Act_of_Union_and_abolition

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

New National Anthem
New all inclusive flag.
Re joining the Commonwealth.
Non mandatory Irish in school..

Would Republicans countenance all of these?

This one will and has an open and honest opinion on each of them.

Nift

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Genuinely disgusting. Flanagan is a good Irish name. Wtf is his agenda.

sorry but what's a good irish name? this is the crux of the issue around all this bollocks....

a good irish name like Emmet, tone, Parnell, Pearse, Plunkett, Constance Georgine Gore-Booth and so on and on.

gormdubhgorm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

New National Anthem
New all inclusive flag.
Re joining the Commonwealth.
Non mandatory Irish in all school..

Would Republicans countenance all of these?

Many can't sing the national anthem.
Many hardliners seem to forget the true meaning of the Irish flag.
And most of them do not speak a decent standard of Irish, and only pay the language lip service.

As for the commonwealth it would have solved things back in 1914 - I think that ship has sailed.

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This one will and has an open and honest opinion on each of them.

thats fair.

A serious issue and in relation to police and legacies, would the PSNI have to become garda or would that be too much?

gormdubhgorm

Nift wrote: »

sorry but what's a good irish name? this is the crux of the issue around all this bollocks....

a good irish name like Parnell, Pearse, Markivicz, Plunkett, Constance Georgine Gore-Booth and so on and on.

You forgot - Charles William St John Burgess

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

thats fair.

A serious issue and in relation to police and legacies, would the PSNI have to become garda or would that be too much?

Unionists will be joining a 'united' country. How many countries have two separate police forces?

You keep talking about what 'we' have to do to make a success of the will of the majority, what do you feel Unionists should do/compromise on?