RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

KWAG2019

It’s quite clear that there are manufactured “narratives” about the RIC/DMP being just police, just Irish Etc etc. It’s as if trying to meet the needs of some theory of historiography.
BTW I have the usual suspects on ignore.

weldoninhio

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

How did the Tans and the Auxes know who to pick up? How did they gain such good knowledge of the lay of the land? How did they know what houses were safehouses etc?? The RIC was a traitorous force. Informers and enablers for the Tans and Auxes.

The Rape of Lucretia

FTA69 wrote: »

The Auxiliaries were the worst of all as they were tasked with counter-insurgency.

Surely counter-insurgency is the correct way to deal with terrorists and revolutionaries, and to be applauded ? How can it possibly make anyone the worst ???

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

They’re two entirely different things and you know it.

The Nazis committed systematic mass murder on an industrial scale. There is no comparison.

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

A lot of their families joined AGS

Want a hand with those goalposts?

AudreyHepburn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is writing anybody out?

You clearly have not read what is written in copious accounts what the RIC and the Tans did here. And please stop trying the revisionism of separating them. There are actual adverts printed in England looking for recruits to join the RIC - 'the finest police force in the world'.

Like all Irish people I know exactly what the British empire and it’s various agents did to this country.

I just think a mountain was being made of molehill here.

Again it was a commemoration not a celebration. There’s a difference.

At least it’s be canceled now.

AudreyHepburn

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

My queen? I’m Irish born and bred, I have no queen.

It was a commemoration not a celebration, there is a difference.

But again I’m glad it’s been cancelled.

McMurphy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like all Irish people I know exactly what the British empire and it’s various agents did to this country.

I just think a mountain was being made of molehill here.

Again it was a commemoration not a celebration. There’s a difference.

At least it’s be canceled now.

Deferred not cancelled Flanagan reckons.

Sir Oxman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

They are not being written out - they are in every textbook and the actual recommendation of the expert group was for an academic seminar/conference on those same organisations.


The RIC was an armed militia, not just the 'police'.

FrancieBrady

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

So how many of you does your enemy have to kill before it’s not right to celebrate them?

Would you be happy to see your queen leading a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

By Charlie's logic she should be happy to lead one for IRA members who were 'British'. And there are many, according to her own government and courts who have just recently decreed that contrary to the GFA anyone born in NI is British.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My queen? I’m Irish born and bred, I have no queen.

It was a commemoration not a celebration, there is a difference.

But again I’m glad it’s been cancelled.

Do you think England’s queen should lead a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

AudreyHepburn

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Do you think England’s queen should lead a commemoration for the Provisional IRA in London?

Of course not.

Again I don’t actually think the commemoration was good idea, just that it’s being made to been even worse than it actually was intended to be.

Sir Oxman

bubblypop wrote: »

A lot of their families joined AGS

Which is why the HARP group of ex-garda with RIC ancestors lobbied Flanagan and him being what he is duly obliged to assist with the rehabilitation and whitewashing of what they did without due regard to parameters agreed for the national commemorations.
Except it all came a bit unstuck.

weldoninhio

https://bit.ly/2rZFmYZ

Excellent summation of the RIC and the DMP from a contributor to Newstalk yesterday.

AudreyHepburn

Sir Oxman wrote: »

They are not being written out - they are in every textbook and the actual recommendation of the expert group was for an academic seminar/conference on those same organisations.


The RIC was an armed militia, not just the 'police'.

And that would have been a far better way to do it without a doubt.

Montage of Feck

I don't believe historical revisionist arselicking is a neccesity for a United Ireland. How about we just do our best to create a tolerant and progressive republic now, I can't imagine too many educated rational young people up north would subscribe to the bigoted backwards ideology of unionism.

Plumbthedepths

I posted this earlier, just so there is no confusion the Black and Tans were part of the RIC. No one should attempt to rewrite history.

Explainer: Who were the RIC? https://jrnl.ie/4956583

FTA69

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Both worked predominantly as independent organizations. The RIC were just a police force.

Besides this is a commemoration not a celebration. We can’t just pretend any of the three were never here, they were all hugely important parts of our history. We can’t just write them out of it.

But again this probably shouldn’t ever have been organized.

The RIC had counter insurgency duties; it was they who killed Tomas MacCurtain and who also arrested, charged and also went out to engage with the IRA. Regardless of what the Auxiliaries and Black and Tans different areas of operation were, all three overlapped heavily. They were reserve police constables, their recruitment ads featured “Join the RIC” as a headline.

The regular RIC worked alongside them as colleagues. The UDR and the Paras had different purposes and characteristics, they’re still part of e British Army.

chrissb8

People in Ireland are not comfortable honouring any British sentiment that existed in the country. There is no let bygones be bygones. Yes, all wounds heal over in time but some are so deep you still feel a dull ache forevermore.

I'm no expert in history and the intricacies of the RIC in terms of who they really were elude me. I know there were men in there from Ireland but they did too much bad in Ireland. You can bang on about the ruthlessness of republican forces etc. but at least there was reasonable justification there. Famine, tenant oppression and enforcing overall oppression of the Irish people.

This isn't up for debate. If a whole nation still feels this, and rightly so then that says it all. No one is holding on to anything. But no one is just letting go either. Maybe if we didn't have bloody Sunday and Brexit which only exemplified if Britain had their way they would have just thrown up a hard border and let the ensuing violence happen again we could move towards a reconciliation of our past. Is it any reason we don't want to celebrate anything remotely British. Many feel it's a slap in our ancestor's face and it is.

We are not even a century into our independence, it is not time to forget. This was a stupid step too far by Leo and he should be ashamed of himself. The insult of us as a nation not being mature enough to respect the past. We are respecting the past. Our past, all of which strove to give us the Ireland we have today. It's as simple as that.

I'm sure all armies had good and bad on each side. But that's not what's being commemorated. It's what its stood for is being commemorated. Like we commemorate our independence every year on Easter. Why would we now want to commemorate those lovely fellows in the RIC who were "just doing their job".

There's alot more valid reasons to never have it then ever have it.

FTA69

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Surely counter-insurgency is the correct way to deal with terrorists and revolutionaries, and to be applauded ? How can it possibly make anyone the worst ???

Absolutely sham, just like those gallant men in the Gestapo and the apartheid police in South Africa. How else should people deal with terrorists and counter-revolutionaries?

corner of hells

chrissb8 wrote: »

People in Ireland are not comfortable honouring any British sentiment that existed in the country. There is no let bygones be bygones. Yes, all wounds heal over in time but some are so deep you still feel a dull ache forevermore.

I'm no expert in history and the intricacies of the RIC in terms of who they really were elude me. I know there were men in there from Ireland but they did too much bad in Ireland. You can bang on about the ruthlessness of republican forces etc. but at least there was reasonable justification there. Famine, tenant oppression and enforcing overall oppression of the Irish people.

This isn't up for debate. If a whole nation still feels this, and rightly so then that says it all. No one is holding on to anything. But no one is just letting go either. Maybe if we didn't have bloody Sunday and Brexit which only exemplified if Britain had their way they would have just thrown up a hard border and let the ensuing violence happen again we could move towards a reconciliation of our past. Is it any reason we don't want to celebrate anything remotely British. Many feel it's a slap in our ancestor's face and it is.

We are not even a century into our independence, it is not time to forget. This was a stupid step too far by Leo and he should be ashamed of himself. The insult of us as a nation not being mature enough to respect the past. We are respecting the past. Our past, all of which strove to give us the Ireland we have today. It's as simple as that.

I'm sure all armies had good and bad on each side. But that's not what's being commemorated. It's what its stood for is being commemorated. Like we commemorate our independence every year on Easter Sunday. Why would we now want to commemorate those lovely fellows in the RIC who were "just doing their job".

There's alot more valid reasons to never have it then ever have it.

We don't have a day for celebrating our independence .

extra gravy

Montage of Feck wrote: »

I don't believe historical revisionist arselicking is a neccesity for a United Ireland. How about we just do our best to create a tolerant and progressive republic now, I can't imagine too many educated rational young people up north would subscribe to the bigoted backwards ideology of unionism.

I'm not sure Irish people are mature enough to move on from the past, that's evident from the hysterical overreaction to the commemoration. You can also see from numerous posts in this thread that tolerance is an alien concept to some.

Edgware

Will someone please think of the children?

Zebra3

contrary_devil wrote: »

I also think that Mr Flanagan was a little untactful when he spoke about RIC members being murdered, "killed in the line of duty" might have been a little better and given the opposition he should have cancelled the event rather than defer.

Flanagan wasn't being untactful.

He thought he could put the boot into SF and play up to his own gallery of crooks in FG.

Backfired spectacularly.

If only he could ask his racist father for some advice on what to do next.

Zebra3

extra gravy wrote: »

I'm not sure Irish people are mature enough to move on from the past, that's evident from the hysterical overreaction to the commemoration. You can also see from numerous posts in this thread that tolerance is an alien concept to some.

The hysteria is from those who want to commemorate Britain's terrorists as Irish heroes.

droidman123

Where did all this "mature" mallarkey come from

Jinglejangle69

chrissb8 wrote: »

People in Ireland are not comfortable honouring any British sentiment that existed in the country. There is no let bygones be bygones. Yes, all wounds heal over in time but some are so deep you still feel a dull ache forevermore.

I'm no expert in history and the intricacies of the RIC in terms of who they really were elude me. I know there were men in there from Ireland but they did too much bad in Ireland. You can bang on about the ruthlessness of republican forces etc. but at least there was reasonable justification there. Famine, tenant oppression and enforcing overall oppression of the Irish people.

This isn't up for debate. If a whole nation still feels this, and rightly so then that says it all. No one is holding on to anything. But no one is just letting go either. Maybe if we didn't have bloody Sunday and Brexit which only exemplified if Britain had their way they would have just thrown up a hard border and let the ensuing violence happen again we could move towards a reconciliation of our past. Is it any reason we don't want to celebrate anything remotely British. Many feel it's a slap in our ancestor's face and it is.

We are not even a century into our independence, it is not time to forget. This was a stupid step too far by Leo and he should be ashamed of himself. The insult of us as a nation not being mature enough to respect the past. We are respecting the past. Our past, all of which strove to give us the Ireland we have today. It's as simple as that.

I'm sure all armies had good and bad on each side. But that's not what's being commemorated. It's what its stood for is being commemorated. Like we commemorate our independence every year on Easter Sunday. Why would we now want to commemorate those lovely fellows in the RIC who were "just doing their job".

There's alot more valid reasons to never have it then ever have it.

You should really read a history book before going on a rant.

Strazdas

corner of hells wrote: »

We don't have a day for celebrating our independence .

Ironically, the Civil War is a big factor in this. The war was well underway by December 6, 1922 when the Irish Free State came into being.

Dev subsequently coming to power meant our Independence Day being edited out of the history books, as if it had never happened.

chrissb8

corner of hells wrote: »

We don't have a day for celebrating our independence .

I think many would count Easter Rising commemoration as a day of celebrating our independence in lieu of not having an official day of commemoration of independence.

Plumbthedepths

extra gravy wrote: »

I'm not sure Irish people are mature enough to move on from the past, that's evident from the hysterical overreaction to the commemoration. You can also see from numerous posts in this thread that tolerance is an alien concept to some.

A friend of mine is from the country formerly known as East Germany. She asked me what this RIC thing was about , I explained. She asked is our government f**king mad. To her that would be the same as the German state comemorating the Stasi.