RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

corner of hells

dresden8 wrote: »

Just after we see Arlene lay a wreath at Bobby Sands grave.

In the interests of maturity, reconciliation and inclusivity.

Absolutely, sure Gerry might like acknowledge Frank Hand , Gary Sheehan and so on if we're going that road.

corner of hells

1641 wrote: »

I realise the evidence is non-existent for the health benefits of most supplements but the Food Safety Authority Of Ireland does recommend Vitamin D for various groups :

https://www.fsai.ie/faq/vitamin_d.html

Other sources also recommend Vit D supplementation for the elderly (particularly the elderly who tend to be housebound), eg,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23945431
https://www.ucc.ie/en/vitamind/faqs/

Best post yet.

1641

corner of hells wrote: »

Best post yet.

Wrong thread!

Hamsterchops

Phoebas wrote: »

RIC and DMP members were Irish, not British; no more or less Irish than anyone else.

Irish/British, British/Irish, Irish but also British.

Back then in it was very different to today in what's now the ROI, whereby there is a clear line, or distinction between being British or Irish.

My parents were Irish/British, both born in Dublin before the ROI separated itself politically and (some would say geographically) from the rest of these islands ......

Like many Irish families, my family would have had strong ties to the RIC back in the day.

DublinWriter

Most forget that the DMP policed Dublin for the first three years of the Free State until merging into AGS in 1925.

saabsaab

FTA69 wrote: »

They weren't "murdered in the line of duty" they were killed as part of a war of liberation in which they fought with an anti-democratic imperialist force. The way Flanagan is banging on you'd swear the Irish struggle for independence was some sort of criminal conspiracy or something.

Absolutely unbelievable commentary from a government minister. The people who fought for and established Irish independence were "murderers" while the forces of British occupation were "good men doing their duty".

Utterly pathetic.

I was surprised at that wording too. They died on the wrong side.

Junkyard Tom

This isn't about commemoration of people 'just doing their jobs' (suppressing the Irish nation on behalf of a foreign occupier) so much as a crypto-fascist urge to delegitimize resistance to a monopoly of force.

up for anything

Hamsterchops wrote: »

their Republican brothers & sisters who demanded a new State & a total break with our neighbors!

Sounds a bit like a hard Brexit, sadly with lots of death thrown in the mix

Hardly a Brexit situation and the UK were slightly more than neighbours. They were oppressors, colonisers and some of them weren't averse to a little genocide if it was a fortunate by-product of 'trade'.

KWAG2019

DublinWriter wrote: »

Most forget that the DMP policed Dublin for the first three years of the Free State until merging into AGS in 1925.

They transferred allegiance to an Irish State and answered to that State not Britain.

Larbre34

Is the German chancellor attending Somme commemorations grotesque? No.

Lets not conflate the RIC and DMP with the Black and Tans and the B Specials of 50 years later. These were the civic police forces of the ordianary community for 110 years prior to independence. Were they all angels? No. Did they resist working with crown intelligence and other imperials against their own people? We know some did and some didn't. But just like ordinary Irishman fighting in WW1 these were mostly working men earning a few quid to keep their families in difficult times. A commemoration and recognition of the value of civic policing in the past, as in the future, is appropriate.

Junkyard Tom

Larbre34 wrote: »

Is the German chancellor attending Somme commemorations grotesque? No.

Bad analogy, it would be more akin to the French state commemorating Vichy collaborators.

The RIC/DMP collaborated with a foreign occupier after the Irish nation made it clear they wanted them gone.

BSA International

I do not agree with this.

What next? maybe honour Britain for allowing millions to die & emigrate during/after the Great Hunger?

An Ciarraioch

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Bad analogy, it would be more akin to the French state commemorating Vichy collaborators.

The RIC/DMP collaborated with a foreign occupier after the Irish nation made it clear they wanted them gone.

That said, many ordinary RIC members did use their position to supply information and services to the IRA, so would be considered "double agents" in modern terms:

https://amp.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/localnotes/how-sympathetic-ric-offiers-became-the-backbone-of-iras-intellegence-network-27376069.html

frosty123

ZuluDawn2020 wrote: »

Does anyone else think this is grotesque?

Grotesque? I'll tell you whats grotesque having having a convicted bomber like Dessie Ellis as a member of the Dail our parliament

We're in no position to be pontificating, we glorify terrorists in this country

end of the road

frosty123 wrote: »

Grotesque? I'll tell you whats grotesque having having a convicted bomber like Dessie Ellis as a member of the Dail our parliament

We're in no position to be pontificating, we glorify terrorists in this country

not at all.
dessie has served his time, is rehabilitated, and is therefore entitled to a second chance and to rebuild his life.
ireland doesn't glorify terrorists.

Hamsterchops

BSA International wrote: »

What next? maybe honour Britain for allowing millions to die & emigrate during/after the Great Hunger?

The Great Hunger?

I guess you mean the great potato famine of 1845-1849.
I don't think anybody is suggesting Britain is honoured for allowing the famine to happen.

saabsaab

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

That said, many ordinary RIC members did use their position to supply information and services to the IRA, so would be considered "double agents" in modern terms:

https://amp.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/localnotes/how-sympathetic-ric-offiers-became-the-backbone-of-iras-intellegence-network-27376069.html

There was a story that an RIC Sergeant offering to join a flying column and leave his job. Collins is supposed to have told him to stay in his job and that he would be of more use feeding them information/tip offs where he was.

frosty123

ireland doesn't glorify terrorists.

Really? how about up north GAA clubs naming medals & awards after ex-provos??

And the state funeral a few years back for Donavan Rossa a man who encouraged terrorist acts & methods.

Rvsmmnps

What's next, nazi day in tel Aviv?
Maybe Ireland needs a shake up anyway, to remind people of who and what they are, the past the country had etc.
There's not much to that varadkar fella is there

tipptom

frosty123 wrote: »

Really? how about up north GAA clubs naming medals & awards after ex-provos??

And the state funeral a few years back for Donavan Rossa a man who encouraged terrorist acts & methods.

The biggest hoax perpetrated on at least half the world was to make idiots believe that native people eventually fighting back in their own country against British invader terrorism were the terrorists.

Look to the British for the gold standard in terrorist acts and methods which included using native paid informers and collaborators for their murder machine.

BSA International

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Great Hunger?

I guess you mean the great potato famine of 1845-1849.

Call it what you want. There were numerous other potato crops failures outside those dates not quite on the scale of the 1845-1849 crop failures. Personally, I think it should be called the great genocide. The potato crop failed BUT other foodstuffs didn't and were exported to UK while Irish starved.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I don't think anybody is suggesting Britain is honoured for allowing the famine to happen.

Read what I posted again. I wasn't suggesting we honour Britain for the blatant genocide it perputated during the years the potato crop failed more so that we may as well honour them if Fine Gael honour the RIC, Black & Tans & British Army who, often brutally, enforced Britains' occupation of Ireland. Should we be surprised at this farce considering Fine Gaels' history?

dresden8

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Great Hunger?

I guess you mean the great potato famine of 1845-1849.
I don't think anybody is suggesting Britain is honoured for allowing the famine to happen.

Most famine victims died after they were evicted. They were evicted by the RIC.

Zebra3

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Great Hunger?

I guess you mean the great potato famine of 1845-1849.
I don't think anybody is suggesting Britain is honoured for allowing the famine to happen.

Famine means shortage of food.

There was no shortage of food.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

tipptom wrote: »

The biggest hoax perpetrated on at least half the world was to make idiots believe that native people eventually fighting back in their own country against British invader terrorism were the terrorists.

Look to the British for the gold standard in terrorist acts and methods which included using native paid informers and collaborators for their murder machine.

It's standard procedure used by the powerful against anyone they deem a threat.

corks finest

corner of hells wrote: »

Thread seems to be turning into a monologue about Cork.

Civil war affected Cork,Kerry and Munster mostly that's why

corks finest

end of the road wrote: »

not at all.
dessie has served his time, is rehabilitated, and is therefore entitled to a second chance and to rebuild his life.
ireland doesn't glorify terrorists.

Considering our first dail was made up nearly entirely of what you call ' terrorists' don't bring Ellis into the equation,,,,,excuse me I was answering to the op

saabsaab

corner of hells wrote: »

Thread seems to be turning into a monologue about Cork.

Maybe, but Cork and Kerry were most of the action happened. Michael collins was a Corkman too.

corner of hells

saabsaab wrote: »

Maybe, but Cork and Kerry were most of the action happened. Michael collins was a Corkman too.

And shot in Cork by a Corkman who was apparently an ex RIC man who was previously an officer in the British Army in WW1 , eventually being awarded a military pension for his actions in the War of Independence and Civil War.

saabsaab

corner of hells wrote: »

And shot in Cork by a Corkman who was apparently an ex RIC man who was previously an officer in the British Army in WW1 , eventually being awarded a military pension for his actions in the War of Independence and Civil War.

Nobody knows who killed him and at this stage we probably never will.

Hamsterchops

Zebra3 wrote: »

Famine means shortage of food.

There was no shortage of food.

Never heard it called the "hunger' before now!

Not in school, not in college, not anywhere. All references on the internet and reference books call it the Irish Famine (the great famine) primarily caused by potato blight......

Maybe it should be officially renamed?