RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We watch their TV, support their football teams, speak their language, we've emmigrated there in the hundreds of thousands and integrated, we've welcomed 200,000 British people here in the last two decades.

Anti-British? There's nowhere on this Earth more accomodating of the British than Ireland despite their rotten legacy here. We are a very forgive-and-forget people.

But it's not enough for some, they want us to bend-the-knee to our colonial tormentors. Fuck that, don't push it.

What? Get the **** out of here.

We have people in this thread dragging up the English Norman invasion of 1169 FFS. I dont know of other nation states that harps on about 800 years of 'occupation' and such.

The whole controversy about the RIC lifts the lid on how much we still remember and how much of our Irishness is dependant on being anti-British and anti-'Crown'.

Labels like West-Brit, used as a pejorative is thrown around like conefetti to those who are deemed lesser and other, then the 'true' Irish people because some grandfather of theirs smacked an RIC officer over the head with a hurley.

We give grief to Unionists and Orangemen about their veneration of William of Orange and the Battle of the Boyne, yet wholeheartedly do the same ourselves.
Forgive and forget my hole!

As to British or English people living here, only perhaps in the past 20 years or so has it been acceptable in society as I know many older types how got awful grief and hassle. Lets not dig too much into how after the Free-State was founded that there was a minor sort of ethnic cleansing to Unionists and Protdestants in the south.

I remember myself working in a supermarket, with an English lad, where the many customers upon hearing his accent would pull me aside and tell me 'Why isnt an Irish boy doing his job' and 'That boy should not be working in this shop'... and this was only 20 years ago.

The only racism that is acceptable in Ireland is that agaisnt Travellers and 'Da Brits', but sure we are a great bunch of lads :rolleyes:

Forgive and forget..please.

James Brown

seamus wrote: »

Gotta give Leo credit for clever trolling tbh, mainly because he's right.

The outrage over this does suggest that the recent talk of a United Ireland is premature and there's a lot of growing up still to be done.

It shows he's either taking the piss or ignorant.
What has celebrating the Black and Tans got to do with how we address all sides in a United Ireland context?

Our state has to honour the very people paid to oppress anyone who wanted it?
I thought this was 'murcia?

I dont think the unionist should be obliged to celebrate the rising if they dont want to and if they did or didn't it would mean little in the state of play re a UI.

Zebra3

markodaly wrote: »

What? Get the **** out of here.

We have people in this thread dragging up the English Norman invasion of 1169 FFS. I dont know of other nation states that harps on about 800 years of 'occupation' and such.

The whole controversy about the RIC lifts the lid on how much we still remember and how much of our Irishness is dependant on being anti-British and anti-'Crown'.

Labels like West-Brit, used as a pejorative is thrown around like conefetti to those who are deemed lesser and other, then the 'true' Irish people because some grandfather of theirs smacked an RIC officer over the head with a hurley.

We give grief to Unionists and Orangemen about their veneration of William of Orange and the Battle of the Boyne, yet wholeheartedly do the same ourselves.
Forgive and forget my hole!

As to British or English people living here, only perhaps in the past 20 years or so has it been acceptable in society as I know many older types how got awful grief and hassle. Lets not dig too much into how after the Free-State was founded that there was a minor sort of ethnic cleansing to Unionists and Protdestants in the south.

I remember myself working in a supermarket, with an English lad, where the many customers upon hearing his accent would pull me aside and tell me 'Why isnt an Irish boy doing his job' and 'That boy should not be working in this shop'... and this was only 20 years ago.

The only racism that is acceptable in Ireland is that agaisnt Travellers and 'Da Brits', but sure we are a great bunch of lads :rolleyes:

Forgive and forget..please.

Would you ever give over with your nonsence.

The rest of us were minding our own business and getting on with life.

Suddenly the headcases in FG go on a solo run about commemorating the RIC.

Nobody else in the country was talking about the RIC. Or the Tans. Or the Auxies. Nobody. Absolutely nobody.

So the muppets in FG and their hangers on demand that we remember the RIC, but that we selectively don't remember what they did.

Thought they could take the public for mugs.

Thought wrong.

So maybe you and your ilk need to get over it and move on.

The Rape of Lucretia

Fann Linn wrote: »

Why would anyone commemorate their oppressors?

Nobody would. Which prooves the point that the RIC and DMP were not oppressors. They were us.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What? Get the **** out of here.

We have people in this thread dragging up the English Norman invasion of 1169 FFS. I dont know of other nation states that harps on about 800 years of 'occupation' and such.

The whole controversy about the RIC lifts the lid on how much we still remember and how much of our Irishness is dependant on being anti-British and anti-'Crown'.

Labels like West-Brit, used as a pejorative is thrown around like conefetti to those who are deemed lesser and other, then the 'true' Irish people because some grandfather of theirs smacked an RIC officer over the head with a hurley.

We give grief to Unionists and Orangemen about their veneration of William of Orange and the Battle of the Boyne, yet wholeheartedly do the same ourselves.
Forgive and forget my hole!

As to British or English people living here, only perhaps in the past 20 years or so has it been acceptable in society as I know many older types how got awful grief and hassle. Lets not dig too much into how after the Free-State was founded that there was a minor sort of ethnic cleansing to Unionists and Protdestants in the south.

I remember myself working in a supermarket, with an English lad, where the many customers upon hearing his accent would pull me aside and tell me 'Why isnt an Irish boy doing his job' and 'That boy should not be working in this shop'... and this was only 20 years ago.

The only racism that is acceptable in Ireland is that agaisnt Travellers and 'Da Brits', but sure we are a great bunch of lads :rolleyes:

Forgive and forget..please.

Person ranting about forgiving and forgetting remembers stuff from 20 years ago, his fathers generation, and post the foundation of the state... to rant about.

Zebra3

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nobody would. Which prooves the point that the RIC and DMP were not oppressors. They were us.

Speak for yourself.

They weren't me.

I don't go around exploding grenades in people's mouths.

Or hunting down democratically elected members of parliament.

Odhinn

Zebra3 wrote: »

The irony of Ulster unionists moaning about a lack of inclusivity when most of them wish it was 1965.

...1690 more like.

jmcc

Fann Linn wrote: »

Why would anyone commemorate their oppressors?

Not even the type of people who listen to Marty Whelan would do that.

Regards...jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia

fundi wrote: »

To most Dubliners in 1916 the terrorists and oppressors were the insurgents. Only after the executions did the mood change.

Even the changing mood is a subsequent myth. There was indeed a change of mood, which supported the secessionist movement of the few years thereafter. But it was in the manner of a backlash or temporary reaction, that while it led to the free state, was, and still is, regretted by many is having been a rather hotheaded mistake. But that doesnt suit the 'official' history some like to see as fact rather than opinion.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Person ranting about forgiving and forgetting remembers stuff from 20 years ago, his fathers generation, and post the foundation of the state... to rant about.

Before 1999 da brits never moved here

Apart from Joe Elliot I suppose

fundi

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nobody would. Which prooves the point that the RIC and DMP were not oppressors. They were us.

Correct. The RIC were just public servants, and doing a job for the government of the time. As far as I remember over 500 were murdered, with many more injured, intimidated, burnt out. The real oppressors were the terrorists / rebels / call them what you want.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement was a deal agreed between the governments of Ireland and the UK and ratified by referendums here and in NI. It contains the mechanism for a border poll.

It doesnt. It just outlines the basics of the outcome of a border poll. It states nothing on how it should be run, (in unison vs seperate for South/North) nor does it state anything on how a UI will take shape after such a poll.

Yes, it is a ridiculous notion. .

Yes, lets follow the British lead. Vote for something that we have zero/no idea on its tangible outcome.

People like yourself run scared of this idea because if such a deal was put before the people before a vote, you know deep down it may well be rejected, but its easier to sell the people romantic ideas of a UI, just like the likes of UKIP sold romantic ideas of Brexit Britain to the UK.

Anyone who suggests following the same path as UKIP, are not only fools, but naive useful idiots of the highest order.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Even the changing mood is a subsequent myth. There was indeed a change of mood, which supported the secessionist movement of the few years thereafter. But it was in the manner of a backlash or temporary reaction, that while it led to the free state, was, and still is, regretted by many is having been a rather hotheaded mistake. But that doesnt suit the 'official' history some like to see as fact rather than opinion.

Do you still think that Vivaldi got his nickname from "wearing a red cape"? Any more of these strange ideas?

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

careless sherpa wrote: »

And if it does highlight anything it is the level of nationalist sentiment just under the surface. Once the balance tips in the six counties, unification is a done deal

The demographic inevitability has been shown to be a fallacy.

lmimmfn

fundi wrote: »

Correct. The RIC were just public servants, and doing a job for the government of the time. As far as I remember over 500 were murdered, with many more injured, intimidated, burnt out. The real oppressors were the terrorists / rebels / call them what you want.

Doing the job for your government not mine.

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

The demographic inevitability has been shown to be a fallacy.

Do you have any knowledge of demographics or statistics? Or is this just another of your fantasies? The reality is that the numbers of MPs in Northern Ireland show that there has been a demographic shift in that the old Unionist dominance is now gone.

Regards...jmcc

CrankyHaus

seamus wrote: »

Gotta give Leo credit for clever trolling tbh, mainly because he's right.

Yeah he's been playing a blinder all week, the raptorous reception he's been getting from all quarters is evidence of that.

Looking forward to the next deft move from this flawless political Wunderkind, no doubt backed by the wise counsel of chess grandmaster Charlie Flanagan. Between them they know what the Irish public wants better than it knows itself.

markodaly

Zebra3 wrote: »

The rest of us were minding our own business and getting on with life.

.

Getting on with life... by going apocalyptic about a commemeration of the RIC/DMP, that they are free not to attend.

Pull the other one.

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

Do you still think that Vivaldi got his nickname from "wearing a red cape"? Any more of these strange ideas?

Regards...jmcc

You seem to have an obsession - fashion forum this a way
-> https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=464

careless sherpa

markodaly wrote: »

The demographic inevitability has been shown to be a fallacy.

In what way?

The Rape of Lucretia

Zebra3 wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

They weren't me.

I don't go around exploding grenades in people's mouths.

Or hunting down democratically elected members of parliament.

Yet so many are happy to vote for FF or SF/IRA despite the despicable murders their members carried out.
So it cant be the violence that has people worked up about the RIC DMP.

cameramonkey

markodaly wrote: »

The demographic inevitability has been shown to be a fallacy.

Tell that to Nigel Dodds, he may be interested in your take on North Belfast.

markodaly

careless sherpa wrote: »

In what way?

The expectation that Catholics would outbreed Protestants means a UI is a certainty.

It is a fallacy.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Getting on with life... by going apocalyptic about a commemeration of the RIC/DMP, that they are free not to attend.

Pull the other one.

Ha ha ha...I think there are a few people here and in FG wh could be described fairly as 'apocalyptic'.
Lashing out at all and sundry because they didn't get their way.

The poster is right, there was absolutely no problem with the recommendations of the EG when they published them.

The problems arose when Leo and crew decided to give formal state commemorations against the advice of the EG.

Simple as.

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

It states nothing on how it should be run, (in unison vs seperate for South/North) nor does it state anything on how a UI will take shape after such a poll.

Can you point out in the GFA where a poll is required in the South?

jmcc

This going from bad to worse for FG. A journo on the Tonight Show stated that FG is now being called the Black and Tans Party.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point out in the GFA where a poll is required in the South?

There isn't a requirement for us to have a referendum as per the GFA. We have an already agreed constitutional aspiration to unity, so they could, as you know go ahead on that basis if the north voted for it.

I think it was just the government of the day who decided that and a future government would be within it's rights to just go ahead and negotiate the handover details. I'd favour a referendum anyway myself, to silence partitionists who would no doubt whinge for ever and a day.

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

Correct. The RIC were just public servants, and doing a job for the government of the time. As far as I remember over 500 were murdered, with many more injured, intimidated, burnt out. The real oppressors were the terrorists / rebels / call them what you want.

The fathers and mothers of the nation allows you a vote.
Fighting for freedom is oppression now?
At the end of the day Flanagan and FG were trying to whitewash history again. They're a cynical bitter disgrace.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha ha...I think there are a few people here and in FG wh could be described fairly as 'apocalyptic'.
Lashing out at all and sundry because they didn't get their way.

The poster is right, there was absolutely no problem with the recommendations of the EG when they published them.

The problems arose when Leo and crew decided to give formal state commemorations against the advice of the EG.

Simple as.

They can't even push the spin as members of FG didn't think it was appropriate.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point out in the GFA where a poll is required in the South?

I guess we can amend the constitution without a vote?