RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They can't even push the spin as members of FG didn't think it was appropriate.

Regina Doherty tonight, 'we got it wrong, simple as that'.

Regina knows what way the wind is blowing...always!

fundi

As someone else said "Before calling the RIC and unarmed DMP traitors etc you should remember that during the Civil War both sides referred to the other as Traitors too. And they were all Irish men as well. Many of us like to look back at our history through emerald coloured glasses and see only one side. And that is as much the fault of the way our history was taught in school. Only now we should be mature enough as a nation to take off those glasses and see our history from both sides."

Over 500 of the RIC were murdered. Out of curiosity, how many did they kill in retaliation?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

I guess we can amend the constitution without a vote?

?? There is already a constitutional aspiration to unity Mark.
If we are presented with unity we are constitutionally impelled to accept it.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

?? There is already a constitutional aspiration to unity Mark.
If we are presented with unity we are constitutionally impelled to accept it.

As I said, it would require a change to the consitition, therefore we will need to vote on it. It would be a defacto vote on a UI.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

As someone else said "Before calling the RIC and unarmed DMP traitors etc you should remember that during the Civil War both sides referred to the other as Traitors too. And they were all Irish men as well. Many of us like to look back at our history through emerald coloured glasses and see only one side. And that is as much the fault of the way our history was taught in school. Only now we should be mature enough as a nation to take off those glasses and see our history from both sides."

I see our history from 'both sides' quite clearly. And the RIC/DMP and the B&T's in all their brutal glory.
It is the people who cannot see that that are blinkered tbh. Both sides in the civil war are still represented here to this day. They found a non violent way to co-exist.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, it would require a change to the consitition, therefore we will need to vote on it. It would be a defacto vote on a UI.

Why would it require a change to the constitution to accept the unity we constitutionally aspire to?

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see our history from 'both sides' quite clearly.

If you did, you would know that many of the hundreds of thousands in Dublin saw the relatively small number of rebels in 1916 as traitors / terrorists. Many had loved ones and neighbours involved in the war effort or working in government jobs.

Plumbthedepths

Looks like Leo and the rest of FG are throwing Charlie under the bus for this clusterf**k.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

If you did, you would know that many of the hundreds of thousands in Dublin saw the relatively small number of rebels in 1916 as traitors / terrorists. Many had loved ones and neighbours involved in the war effort or working in government jobs.

That is actually more nuanced. If you use the Dublin press as your research that is certainly the opinion you would form, but wider research shows that is not the whole picture. The Dublin media were as you know vehemently anti the Rising.

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is actually more nuanced. If you use the Dublin press as your research that is certainly the opinion you would form, but wider research shows that is not the whole picture. The Dublin media were as you know vehemently anti the Rising.

Not just the press, I rely on accounts of the mood among many in Dublin which were handed down through the family. It was not that long ago.

Do not believe all you read in the Republican press.

droidman123

Mature,mature,mature...is this the new word of the day? Maybe fg should of been "mature" enough to see they were shooting themselves in the foot with this ludicous proposal. Maybe britain can become "mature" enough and stop with the ww2 nonsense, maybe they can stop embarresing themselves with the ridiculous poppy rememberence at every football game in november( the ultimate tackiness was the mascot dressed as a poppy) at one of the games.yes lets all be MATURE;

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would it require a change to the constitution to accept the unity we constitutionally aspire to?

Simply put, Dail seats and the re-draw of the electoral map, among many many others.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Simply put, Dail seats and the re-draw of the electoral map, among many many others.

That would be after we accept unity Mark. :rolleyes:

Constitutional change will of course be required but not to accept unity. And once accepted only another referendum on the specific question of unity will change that.

Questions on the redrawing of electoral maps, flags , Dail seats etc will not revoke unity.

P.S. I'm off to bed, looks like it will be a fun morning reading the papers and listening to the radio as the bloodletting begins.

droidman123

Charlie flanagan would serve this country better if he,as the minister for justice,would bring in proper jail sentences for drug dealers,murderers,rapists and the like instead of coming up with (and at the same time losing votes for fg) this ridiculous commeration for the ric nonsense.he actually has the gall to say it hasnt gone away and will be proposed again in the future.

feargale

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point out in the GFA where a poll is required in the South?

Are you saying there shouldn't be or there won't be?

feargale

lmimmfn wrote: »

So your comment of common Irish opinion prior to 1916 predates my response by a full 8 years, are you guys for real? seriously?

I haven't the foggiest idea of what point you are trying to make here. Could you explain please?

Incidentally you seem to have missed post 1162. I was expecting you to have a go at tearing it to shreds.

Strazdas

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you point out in the GFA where a poll is required in the South?

We cannot become a new country effectively without holding a referendum on it (as per our Constitution).

It would probably be the most important referendum in the history of the State.

cameramonkey

fundi wrote: »

If you did, you would know that many of the hundreds of thousands in Dublin saw the relatively small number of rebels in 1916 as traitors / terrorists. Many had loved ones and neighbours involved in the war effort or working in government jobs.

You are just making stuff up now , you can have no idea how many people thought as you seem to do. Of course many people didnt support the rising but many did.

cameramonkey

fundi wrote: »

Not just the press, I rely on accounts of the mood among many in Dublin which were handed down through the family. It was not that long ago.

Do not believe all you read in the Republican press.

So someone told someone who told you, I think you will have to do better than handmedowns.

careless sherpa

cameramonkey wrote: »

So someone told someone who told you, I think you will have to do better than handmedowns.

It's more than that ... Am pretty sure he can feel it in his waters as well.

Lucy8080

Folks should check in on the D.M.P.s behaviour in Dublin during the Lock-Out. Inner Dublin was a small town back then , with Dubs and someone from every county in Ireland living cheek -by -jowl, just trying to make an honest living. Connolly and Larkin supported those poor folks.

Connolly was instrumental in the Rising. Workers /peoples rights.

D.M.P. behaviour During the 1913 Lock-Out in Dublin? It's worth a look. Make your own minds up if you think the D.M.P. are worthy of support.

McMurphy

fundi wrote: »

If you did, you would know that many of the hundreds of thousands in Dublin saw the relatively small number of rebels in 1916 as traitors / terrorists. Many had loved ones and neighbours involved in the war effort or working in government jobs.

Source?

Fann Linn

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Looks like Leo and the rest of FG are throwing Charlie under the bus for this clusterf**k.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

Followed up last night by the Chief Whip Sean Kyne on tg4 who stated that this commemoration wasn' t even on the list of official events before Christmas.
The official events planned were burning of Cork and Balbriggan plus death of Kevin Barry.

It looks like this was a solo run by Charlie and representatives of the two organisations.
Full story in this morning's Irish Times.

McMurphy

Fann Linn wrote: »

Followed up last night by the Chief Whip Sean Kyne on tg4 who stated that this commemoration wasn' t even on the list of official events before Christmas.
The official events planned were burning of Cork and Balbriggan plus death of Kevin Barry.

It looks like this was a solo run by Charlie and representatives of the two organisations.
Full story in this morning's Irish Times.

Yep.

Charlie will now cause them more votes than even the Maria Bailey controversy, doubt he'll be off the ticket though.

This from Maurice Manning - ouch.

Maurice Manning says academic conference better way to commemorate police force

Dr Manning a member of the expert advisory group on centenary commemoration appointed by the Government, said that the group had recommended a simple ceremony in Dublin Castle, but “somebody lost the run of themselves and called it a State event.”

Can we now dispel with the absolute spoof that the state shindig charile, leo, heather and josepha were trying to organise was recommended?

FG - blaming others for their arrogance and clusterfcuks since forever.

Sir Oxman

Zebra3 wrote: »

Would you ever give over with your nonsence.

That's what I'd advise.
The ridiculous attempts to off-topic the thread by that poster and a handful of others is obvious.


Not many at all in this thread have said the RIC/DMP and their reserves should be airbrushed from history even the most rabid - on the contrary let's have the full story but the families of RICers and the West British bent (and their is a cohort amongst the population who this describes perfectly, nothing wrong with that view but be honest, I wish they would grow some balls balls and own it) will need to know that will be warts and all (and that goes for everything in history) starting with the fundamental truth that those who stayed 1919-1921 fought against our independence which is something no self-respecting nation would ever hold a state commemoration for.


I'm all for a museum piece about them and an academic debate/discussion.

weldoninhio

crossman47 wrote: »

The RIC existed as a decent force for decades before the Tans came. You shouldn't distort the issue either. The RIC was composed of decent Irishmen doing a necessary job but, of course, 1916 changed everything.

Read a book ffs.

Sir Oxman

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Yeah he's been playing a blinder all week, the raptorous reception he's been getting from all quarters is evidence of that.

Looking forward to the next deft move from this flawless political Wunderkind, no doubt backed by the wise counsel of chess grandmaster Charlie Flanagan. Between them they know what the Irish public wants better than it knows itself.

:):D
It's so pathetic, isn't it?

facehugger99

feargale wrote: »

Are you saying there shouldn't be or there won't be?

The GFA effectively enshrines the ROI's constitutional right of veto to any Unification proposals by removing the previous territorial claims. The current constitution very deliberately avoids mention of territory at all.

Opinion polling has consistently demonstrated the lack of appetite for unification in the ROI that requires additional taxes to be paid.

While it will be decades before the NI electorate consider voting for unification, it's doubtful if the Republic's voters ever will.

I can see why the usual barstool brigade would fear a vote in the South.

Sir Oxman

Fann Linn wrote: »

Followed up last night by the Chief Whip Sean Kyne on tg4 who stated that this commemoration wasn' t even on the list of official events before Christmas.
The official events planned were burning of Cork and Balbriggan plus death of Kevin Barry.

It looks like this was a solo run by Charlie and representatives of the two organisations.
Full story in this morning's Irish Times.

These facts appear to be completely ignored by the partitionistas, FGers and ancestors of the RICers on this thread.
This was Flanagan backed by Varadkar shoehorning a tiny lobby groups dreams of rehabilitation for their ancestors.
Totally selfmade fck up by a disastrous party in govt ignoring and bypassing the crossparty consensus on the decade.


Ya couldn't make it up but it is FG after all so I suppose it was inevitable.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I can see why the usual barstool brigade would fear a vote in the South.

Who fears a vote in the south?

And after the events of this week can you not work out for yourself what is going to happen when we can put the question of partition to the people?

Imagine the backlash (and I am sure a few FG ministers are licking their wounds) against any party campaigning for a NO vote?

It isn't going to happen.