RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

jimgoose

Nift wrote: »

eh yeah i think we all get that. But the tri-color could be all orange for how much the Unionists give a ****. Its the symbolism that matters.

But sure they can **** off back to britain am i right?

it didn't take long for a few of our points to be shown as correct.

No, they can't fuck off back to Britain. For one thing that kind of attitude is counter-productive to put it mildly, and at any rate right at the moment they are in Britain. The symbolism truly does matter, you're right there - the problem with the tri-colour is that it has been misappropriated by a bad element, to the point that a lot of nice folks down here don't want much to do with it either.

marieholmfan

jimgoose wrote: »

No, they can't fuck off back to Britain. For one thing that kind of attitude is counter-productive to put it mildly, and at any rate right at the moment they are in Britain. The symbolism truly does matter, you're right there - the problem with the tri-colour is that it has been misappropriated by a bad element, to the point that a lot of nice folks down here don't want much to do with it either.

The United Kingdom -- not Britain.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

wait what....eek yourself. i said "who can't get Ireland's call"...sorry if its a bit vernacular but get=understand.

thats what i'm saying. I understand the need for Ireland's call!!!!!

None of it is a piece of ****ing cake...partition, unification.

and there you go buddy, our first go back to Britain comment...you were saying? that view is ten a penny.

No problem apologising here for misunderstanding you. As I said I am having problems with understanding some of what you are saying.

I read 'it' in 'It drives me nuts', as 'Ireland's call'.

I follow rugby, and the amount of reasonable people, my father, my friends, my partner who can't get Ireland's call. It drives me nuts. Its a widespread position.

'It' is singular and I took it to mean the singular item in the preceding sentence.

Here's how I would have written that:

I follow rugby, and the amount of reasonable people, my father, my friends, my partner who can't get Ireland's call. Their attitude drives me nuts. (or 'They drive me nuts') Its a widespread position.

CrankyHaus

intellectual dosser wrote: »

But regardless of blame, the outcome means that unity is further away today than it was two weeks ago.

It's not. Unity never required honouring the Black and Tans, moderate Unionists are reasonable people who can read a history book and know that the RIC don't deserve to be honoured by the Irish State. Unionist extremists will never shift over until they realise they've been abandoned by the UK and their fellow Unionists and have no other choice.



At most our perception down here in the South of how close we were to unity was flawed and has been corrected.

jimgoose

marieholmfan wrote: »

The United Kingdom -- not Britain.

"Britain" can refer to the UK, as opposed to Great Britain, which is usually the island next-door.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

and francie saids the people understand:D

not your all- ireland ideal.

yeah good luck with your position. its completely ignorant and will fail. Sinn Fein have recognised that compromise is the only way already

So, 'the people' are now represented by one poster on boards.ie?

Varta

Varta wrote: »

1. It represents two nations playing a game of rugby as one. It in no way represents an all-Ireland ideal.
2. There will be no marriage. A united Ireland means we get back that part of our country that is occupied by oppressors. When that happens unionists can either assimilate or go to live in Britain.

Loyalists, unionists or whatever are entitled to parity of esteem. The Irish people agreed to that.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

Loyalists, unionists or whatever are entitled to parity of esteem. The Irish people agreed to that.

If they accept the democratic decision of the people they are. Most definitely.
Nationalists in the north who accepted the democratic decision of the people in the GFA referendum expect the same too. Any word on how they are getting on with that from Belfast?

Ash.J.Williams

this situation has grown legs, the issue here isn't the RIC or the tans, the issue is FG's arrogance and not communicating to the people properly, and then patronizing them as ignorant for disagreeing with them, we have to have academic level commemorations of the RIC as ferriter said, not shut down oconnell street and have RIC week as FG communicated

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they accept the democratic decision of the people they are. Most definitely.

there is no "Accept the democratic will of the people". it was signed up to in (as you like to call it) an internationally binding agreement.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists in the north who accepted the democratic decision of the people in the GFA referendum expect the same too. Any word on how they are getting on with that from Belfast?

I'm guessing you have the exact same access to information as I do, so are perfectly capable of answering that yourself.

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No problem apologising here for misunderstanding you. As I said I am having problems with understanding some of what you are saying.

I read 'it' in 'It drives me nuts', as 'Ireland's call'.


'It' is singular and I took it to mean the singular item in the preceding sentence.

Here's how I would have written that:

look i'm in work, like many of us maybe, at a target driven job. Risking my neck on this, i don't have time to be constantly double checking. I have no issue understanding some of your missteps.

and with this i'm out. but thanks for the help with the grammar, it it is much appreciated . And thanks for getting me back on track with the important things in life.

Its a message board, where vernacular conversation style, is a given to keep it readable for everybody. We aren't writing articles in the times.

But its cool no worries. Its run its course. It isn't happening and now Leo is here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

It probably isn't true. But we are heading into a period of difficult reflection. And difficult, complex politics post brexit.

Seamai

So Leo says that this means that a united Ireland is much further down the track, I think I can live with that, I'd rather it didn't happen in my lifetime.

facehugger99

intellectual dosser wrote: »

But regardless of blame, the outcome means that unity is further away today than it was two weeks ago.

Unity was always far away - as in many, many decades at best.

The sort of kite-flying the the Govt. engaged in just confirms that fact. I don't think it necessarily damaged prospects of a UI as they were already extremely remote.

It is worrying that Brexit has emboldened that anti-British crowd to crawl from under their rocks. Ironically these people are far greater obstacle to unity than those who are labeled as 'partitionists'.

<snip>

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

there is no "Accept the democratic will of the people". it was signed up to in (as you like to call it) an internationally binding agreement.

If Unionists agitate violently against the democratically expressed will of the people to unite, they won't be entitled to 'parity of esteem'.

Zebra3

Seamai wrote: »

So Leo says that this means that a united Ireland is much further down the track, I think I can live with that, I'd rather it didn't happen in my lifetime.

Bad news for you.

What Leo said has no relevance.

FrancieBrady

Wow...what an opportunist slimeball Leo is. He was out backing Flanagan to the hilt a couple of days ago.

The cause of Irish unity has been set-back by Charlie Flanagan's mishandling of the axed RIC commemoration event, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

Nift

facehugger99 wrote: »

Unity was always far away - as in many, many decades at best.

The sort of kite-flying the the Govt. engaged in just confirms that fact. I don't think it necessarily damaged prospects of a UI as they were already extremely remote.

It is worrying that Brexit has emboldened that anti-British crowd to crawl from under their rocks. Ironically these people are far greater obstacle to unity than those who are labeled as 'partitionists'.

Anyone who thinks unity is a 50%+1 issue can safely be dismissed as a moron.

well said, an obvious kite flying exercise. Risky but i think Fg know their base. As i said if FG went full border poll they run the risk of their base actually abandoning them. We have far too many sensible, intelligent people in this country, and alot of others who like normalcy, comfort and continuity. A border poll, and United Ireland is a path to chaos.

The high horse brigade

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wow...what an opportunist slimeball Leo is. He was out backing Flanagan to the hilt a couple of days ago.



https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

Under the bus to try to save face

FrancieBrady

Zebra3 wrote: »

Bad news for you.

What Leo said has no relevance.

Exactly. Leo is using this to bloodlet within his own party and to insulate himself from the fallout.
He thinks the voters will fall for it too.

Feisar

Nift wrote: »

well said, an obvious kite flying exercise. Risky but i think Fg know their base. As i said if FG went full border poll they run the risk of their base actually abandoning them. We have far too many sensible, intelligent people in this country, and alot of others who like normalcy, comfort and continuity. A border poll, and United Ireland is a path to chaos.

I'd say that's what 98% of people want.

FrancieBrady

Heather Humphreys kniving Charlie now too. Another who was backing him to the hilt a few days ago.

intellectual dosser

facehugger99 wrote: »

Unity was always far away - as in many, many decades at best.

The sort of kite-flying the the Govt. engaged in just confirms that fact. I don't think it necessarily damaged prospects of a UI as they were already extremely remote.

It is worrying that Brexit has emboldened that anti-British crowd to crawl from under their rocks. Ironically these people are far greater obstacle to unity than those who are labeled as 'partitionists'.

Anyone who thinks unity is a 50%+1 issue can safely be dismissed as a moron.

I'm not someone who is 'all for' a united Ireland. I would say we should do whats best for everyone on the island.

That being said I would say that a united Ireland has never been closer. Political extremism is waning up north and the moderate center is rising with the Alliance party gaining seats and SF and DUP losing their % of the vote. The NI electorate voted to remain but the UK are leaving the EU. Those in power continue to deny basics such as marriage equality and abortion, despite polls showing the NI people are in favour and those rights being available everywhere else in the UK and Ireland.

For the moderate center its not about politics but about prosperity. Are their lives better in the UK or in a united Ireland? That argument is starting to tip in favour of Ireland. If further steps can be made in reconciliation then politically its there, every community would need to bite some bullets and grab it if they want it.

Before people jump in with economics, or kicking up settled dust - I get it. I'm just saying we've never been closer than where we are now, or well, two weeks ago until this mess.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Heather Humphreys kniving Charlie now too. Another who was backing him to the hilt a few days ago.

Decisions are seen as being collective so ministers will fully back each other. Anything since is just commentary on the "fallout".

Nift

Zebra3 wrote: »

Bad news for you.

What Leo said has no relevance.

What he actually said was: Mr Varadkar said he firmly believes in a united Ireland and that it can be achieved in his lifetime.

However, he added that a united Ireland must be one that recognises a shared history and that there are "one million people on the island who identify as British and as being from a unionist background".

He's leading the current government of the day. To say it has no relevance is just utter wummery.

Zebra3

Nift wrote: »

What he actually said was: Mr Varadkar said he firmly believes in a united Ireland and that it can be achieved in his lifetime.

However, he added that a united Ireland must be one that recognises a shared history and that there are "one million people on the island who identify as British and as being from a unionist background".

He's leading the current government of the day. To say it has no relevance is just utter wummery.

The people will decide.

Varadkar has shown himself up to be totally out of touch with reality.

Highly likely he'll be out of power soon.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Decisions are seen as being collective so ministers will fully back each other. Anything since is just commentary on the "fallout".

The 'collective' is falling apart. The 'clever kite flying' has seen to that.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

What he actually said was: Mr Varadkar said he firmly believes in a united Ireland and that it can be achieved in his lifetime.

However, he added that a united Ireland must be one that recognises a shared history and that there are "one million people on the island who identify as British and as being from a unionist background".

He's leading the current government of the day. To say it has no relevance is just utter wummery.

Yes. A 'shared history' that he and Flanagan tried to rewrite/sanitise with respect to part of it.
If he or Mary Lou or anybody else tried to rewrite/sanitise the actions of the IRA they would get the same reaction (rightly) from the Unionist community.

The 'actions' are what they are, good bad or indifferent.

If you truly believe the history is 'shared' don't try to mess with the reality of that history.

Kermit.de.frog

Zebra3 wrote: »

The people will decide.

Varadkar has shown himself up to be totally out of touch with reality.

Highly likely he'll be out of power soon.

Doubt it.

Most people don't give a damn about the RIC or any of that nonsense.


They will be voting on economic competence and Fianna Fáil are going to be HAMMERED over what they did to this country.

SF are unelectable in this regard and no one else is credible either.

Thus FG will lead the next government propped by independents and possibly the greens.

seamus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wow...what an opportunist slimeball Leo is. He was out backing Flanagan to the hilt a couple of days ago.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/united-ireland-set-back-over-ric-commemoration-fall-out-taoiseach-says-974346.html

Is that actually what Leo said though?

The article doesn't contain any quotes from Leo referring to Flanagan at all.

Regina Doherty appears to think Flanagan made a mess of it.

But what did Leo actually say? He said

“I regret that this is a set-back for unity and a set-back for reconciliation,”

Did he say that Flanagan mishandled it? The article implies it, but doesn't actually quote Leo mentioning Charlie at all.

It wouldn't surprise me if he did, but this reads like the examiner trying to stir sh1t in FG.

Bishop of hope

Nift wrote: »

Ok i admit there is, but i think we're agreeing. What you propose is exactly what would happen.

Hence FG sensible approach around all this. Which people are refusing to accept.

I don't think there is anybody who is pro partition that doesn't think of it in a rational way. Like they may say no ****ing way we don't want that basket case (which you see on the journal or here) but its translation really is - i like the way things are, comfort, i hate change and doubt. Which again brings us back on topic around the RIC and 1916 etc. Loads of people were living in the day to day realities, looking at it in human nature sort of way.

I don't think there is somebody who would actively take up the gun, say, to keep our Island split..

they might take it up if a UI got rid of our sacred cows though..

FGs approach isn't or won't work, it's appeasing unionists and partitionists at the expense of the republican people imo
There is no appeasing unionists short of cancelling Irish independence and going back to British rule.
FGs little commeration stunt was an affront to what our Republic was founded on and bowing the knee to exactly what was fought against by the people who gained us our independence.
Collins would turn in his grave over such a commeration.