RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Jimmy Garlic

When are FG going to commemorate the red coats and the dragoons?

Kermit.de.frog

Mary Lou McDonald says she would like to see Orange 12th July celebrations across Ireland.

This in a week when Sinn Féin and the usual suspects have been all out against the government holding a mere ceremony remembering the RIC.

I put it forward that if Varadkar had said what Sinn Féin are saying now this week there would have been the same reaction.

https://twitter.com/TedLeddy/status/1215175256798830595

Hypocrites.

Nift

again nobody said the kite flying is clever...its one of the pillars of the game of politics. Which way is the wind blowing...regina doherty, the useless bint has decided its blowing one way. Flanagan another, but he should concentrate on how we are sleepwalking into a soft crime paradise.

Some people really need to start watching house of cards, or read political books or reeling in the years is a good one for Ireland.

the exact same thing happened to Garett Fitzgerald over commemorating "de English" war dead in 1987 (obviously a different time with less consideration for Catholics or Ireland so the british deserved little recognition in return).

FrancieBrady

seamus wrote: »

Is that actually what Leo said though?

The article doesn't contain any quotes from Leo referring to Flanagan at all.

Regina Doherty appears to think Flanagan made a mess of it.

But what did Leo actually say? He said

Did he say that Flanagan mishandled it? The article implies it, but doesn't actually quote Leo mentioning Charlie at all.

It wouldn't surprise me if he did, but this reads like the examiner trying to stir sh1t in FG.

I can only go on what's written and it is immaterial anyway. The knives are out and they are all backtracking in the hope Charlie is out front and centre taking the blame.

What a position to lead your party into after the Bailey ****show and the now countless others. The 'Examiner' has no need to stir the **** in FG, they have ****stirrers a plenty.

Zebra3

Anyone know what's number 1 in the charts?

Well played FG. :pac:

KWAG2019

Bishop of hope wrote: »

FGs approach isn't or won't work, it's appeasing unionists and partitionists at the expense of the republican people imo
There is no appeasing unionists short of cancelling Irish independence and going back to British rule.
FGs little commeration stunt was an affront to what our Republic was founded on and bowing the knee to exactly what was fought against by the people who gained us our independence.
Collins would turn in his grave over such a commeration.

The end goal of the Bruton Flanagan FG project supported by the self styled elite of the Irish media and academia.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Mary Lou McDonald says she would like to see Orange 12th July celebrations across Ireland.

This in a week when Sinn Féin and the usual suspects have been all out against the government holding a mere ceremony remembering the RIC.

I put it forward that if Varadkar had said what Sinn Féin are saying now this week there would have been the same reaction.

https://twitter.com/TedLeddy/status/1215175256798830595

Hypocrites.

'Mere' ceremony? It was a formal state commemoration.

There is a journalist on Twitter at the moment in his own **** storm at the minute for referring to the actions of the RIC/DMP as 'misdemeanors'.

When will you guys learn?

The fact is, appropiate recognition of the RIC/DMP was included in the programme for this phase and not one party, politician in this state had a problem with that.
The problem arose when Flanagan, Varadkar and Madigan decided to ignore what was reccomended for formal state commemoration.

Nift

But its also Sinn Fein's approach. They have on numerous platforms and occasions talked of the need for reconciliation and recognition, which can be taken as appeasement.

Stop with the false narratives.

Jesus ****ing christ can we not just have balance or honesty.

"Collins would turn in his grave over such a commemoration". He might

But people with the same black and white mindsets killed the man. thats the ****ing problem here

already i've read multiple people talking about the treaty as traitorous. On here we still have people use the word "free staters"

Of course Fine Gael and the IRish Times, the indo, rte want to go back to British rule. Of course they do.

How ****ing stupid does one have to be to actually believe this to be the case? Leo Varadkar has said he wants a United Ireland in his lifetime. Now he could be lying, but then so could Sinn Fein. That's politics.

Its going to be near impossible to appease Unionists and hardened Republicans.

facehugger99

FG, after a brief flirtation, appears to be positioning itself further away from Irish unity.

Perhaps the party base told them to wind their necks in.

Some lads (the Christy Moore and James McClean brigade ) appeared to lose the run of themselves looking for citizen assembly on border polls and such. Leo probably thought it best to throw a few buckets of cold water over the idea for a few more generations.


I also thought LV's comments on the proposed tunnel linking NI with the British mainland were also instructive - basically, an 'it sounds nice but we won't be paying for it' comment.

If any comment summed up Joe Soaps' views on unification, that would be it.

Zebra3

facehugger99 wrote: »

I also thought LV's comments on the proposed tunnel linking NI with the British mainland were also instructive - basically, an 'it sounds nice but we won't be paying for it' comment.

He's totally correct in saying we won't be paying for it.

Not that it matters as it's completely economically unfeasible.

Bishop of hope

Nift wrote: »

But its also Sinn Fein's approach. They have on numerous platforms and occasions talked of the need for reconciliation and recognition, which can be taken as appeasement.

Stop with the false narratives.

Jesus ****ing christ can we not just have balance or honesty.

"Collins would turn in his grave over such a commemoration". He might

But people with the same black and white mindsets killed the man. thats the ****ing problem here

already i've read multiple people talking about the treaty as traitorous. On here we still have people use the word "free staters"

Of course Fine Gael and the IRish Times, the indo, rte want to go back to British rule. Of course they do.

How ****ing stupid does one have to be to actually believe this to be the case? Leo Varadkar has said he wants a United Ireland in his lifetime. Now he could be lying, but then so could Sinn Fein. That's politics.

Its going to be near impossible to appease Unionists and hardened Republicans.

Not sure if you're aware of the FF/FG support base, it's still alive and kicking I'd say.
Most people here are probably happy enough with the status quo, a United Ireland as an ideal.
But then you stir things up by trying a stunt like this comneration, you awake sleeping dogs.

KWAG2019

Nift wrote: »

But its also Sinn Fein's approach. They have on numerous platforms and occasions talked of the need for reconciliation and recognition, which can be taken as appeasement.

Stop with the false narratives.

Jesus ****ing christ can we not just have balance or honesty.

"Collins would turn in his grave over such a commemoration". He might

But people with the same black and white mindsets killed the man. thats the ****ing problem here

already i've read multiple people talking about the treaty as traitorous. On here we still have people use the word "free staters"

Of course Fine Gael and the IRish Times, the indo, rte want to go back to British rule. Of course they do.

How ****ing stupid does one have to be to actually believe this to be the case? Leo Varadkar has said he wants a United Ireland in his lifetime. Now he could be lying, but then so could Sinn Fein. That's politics.

Its going to be near impossible to appease Unionists and hardened Republicans.

Very little learned from the debacle by Fine Gael I see. The utter naïveté of this post is breathtaking. We have seen the sort of UI FG want. Where those who fought for our independence are dishonoured and there is a servility and obsequiousness toward unionism. The mask has slipped and the self styled opinion corners of Irish media have got a slap in the face and they can’t take it.

facehugger99

Zebra3 wrote: »

He's totally correct in saying we won't be paying for it.

There is no appetite in the ROI to pay for any of NI's €12 billion a year issues

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not that it matters as it's completely economically unfeasible.

I very much doubt you have any expertise in the field to be making such statements.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

the need for reconciliation and recognition, which can be taken as appeasement.

.

Don't be ridiculous.
Reconciliation and recognition are not the same thing as appeasement.

Appeasement is the act of making concessions to a dictatorial or aggressive power to avoid conflict.

Reconciliation and recognition is an agreed and mutual understanding of each other on a basis of equality and parity of esteem.

Bishop of hope

Well said Francie.

Zebra3

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is no appetite in the ROI to pay for any of NI's €12 billion a year issues

All the polls say differently.

Plus there is a greater chance of the economy in the six improving within a UI than there is within its' current political set up whereby the Westminster parliament doesn't give a toss about it. Just look at how clueless that Secretary of State was when she started.

facehugger99 wrote: »

I very much doubt you have any expertise in the field to be making such statements.

Look at the costs. Add in overruns.

Look at size of relevant economies.

Ask how the proposed spend would give a viable return through a possible economic boost.

The idea has been proposed for some time and no economists are pushing for it. Just the flat earthers in the DUP.

facehugger99

Zebra3 wrote: »

All the polls say differently.

They don't actually.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

They don't actually.

Is this were you post the 'vast majority' poll

Nift

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not sure if you're aware of the FF/FG support base, it's still alive and kicking I'd say.
Most people here are probably happy enough with the status quo, a United Ireland as an ideal.
But then you stir things up by trying a stunt like this comneration, you awake sleeping dogs.

I've already said that if you read back. I made the point that if he announced a border poll in the morning, he would alienate his whole base.

Nift

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Very little learned from the debacle by Fine Gael I see. The utter naïveté of this post is breathtaking. We have seen the sort of UI FG want. Where those who fought for our independence are dishonoured and there is a servility and obsequiousness toward unionism. The mask has slipped and the self styled opinion corners of Irish media have got a slap in the face and they can’t take it.

utter naïveté :D:pac:

saids yourself.

threads gone into Jokeshop territory.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

he would alienate his whole base.

Where is your evidence for this? Is it an opinion or backed up by data/polls?

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous.
Reconciliation and recognition are not the same thing as appeasement.

Appeasement is the act of making concessions to a dictatorial or aggressive power to avoid conflict.

Reconciliation and recognition is an agreed and mutual understanding of each other on a basis of equality and parity of esteem.

No its not


verb (used with object), ap·peased, ap·peas·ing.
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: - this is exactly what we are aiming for in a unified state.
to appease an angry king.
to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
to yield or concede to the belligerent demands of (a nation, group, person, etc.) in a conciliatory effort, sometimes at the expense of justice or other principles.

nothing to do solely with war.

You can't seem to be honest around all this at all.

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where is your evidence for this? Is it an opinion or backed up by data/polls?

saids the guy throwing anecdotal evidence all around the place.

Its opinion, backed by wide reading, keeping up to date with the news, critical thinking. Along with talking to people i know are Fine Gael voters.

For example i live and drink/socialise in ballybough, work with all foreigners and all my friends are privately educated rathgar living middle class etc.I play sport with a mix as well. From listening to all of them it gives me a general viewpoint. Maybe its all bull****

but The polls show FG retain a lead despite all the crisis.

so despite all the heckles from the journal and reddit FG will most likely win the next GE.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

No its not


verb (used with object), ap·peased, ap·peas·ing.
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: - this is exactly what we are aiming for in a unified state.
to appease an angry king.
to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
to yield or concede to the belligerent demands of (a nation, group, person, etc.) in a conciliatory effort, sometimes at the expense of justice or other principles.

nothing to do solely with war.

You can't seem to be honest around all this at all.

Would you say, after this week that FG were trying to appease unionists at the expense of justice or other principles.?
Because that is what the country told them and that is why they hastily climbed down.

Reconciliation does not ignore justice and other principles. in fact, it embraces them and seeks them out.

patmac

Argue all you want but this is a massive own goal by FG. They have left the door wide open for FF to waltz back into government 13 years after they nearly destroyed the country.
Not sure who is worse but it’s depressing all the same.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

saids the guy throwing anecdotal evidence all around the place.

Its opinion, backed by wide reading, keeping up to date with the news, critical thinking. Along with talking to people i know are Fine Gael voters.

For example i live and drink/socialise in ballybough, work with all foreigners and all my friends are privately educated rathgar living middle class etc.I play sport with a mix as well. From listening to all of them it gives me a general viewpoint. Maybe its all bull****

but The polls show FG retain a lead despite all the crisis.

so despite all the heckles from the journal and reddit FG will most likely win the next GE.

If I give anecdotal accounts I say it usually.

I asked had you any data to back that statement up because you didn't make it clear it was IYO, you haven't any. Thank you.

The use of 'IMO' would negate the need for others to ask. And as it is 3 letters it is not hard to be clear.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If Unionists agitate violently against the democratically expressed will of the people to unite, they won't be entitled to 'parity of esteem'.

so punish the whole unionist community because same have gone down the route of violence?

did you really mean to say that?

actually, the hypocrisy consistently shown by a number of republicans on here would suggest you did mean it.

FrancieBrady

patmac wrote: »

Argue all you want but this is a massive own goal by FG. They have left the door wide open for FF to waltz back into government 13 years after they nearly destroyed the country.
Not sure who is worse but it’s depressing all the same.

Yes, not only have FG rehabilitated FF, they may also have rehabilitated SF.

Good work for their 'base' to chew on.

jimgoose

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, not only have FG rehabilitated FF, they may also have rehabilitated SF.

Good work for their 'base' to chew on.

I'm an FG type, for the most part, and at the moment I would quite happily strangle Leo. He could well have fucked it this time. Not only does he instigate and back this latest disaster, but afterwards he adopts his disappointed, "everyone is an intolerant clodhopper except me" horsepuckey. :pac:

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I give anecdotal accounts I say it usually.

I asked had you any data to back that statement up because you didn't make it clear it was IYO, you haven't any. Thank you.

The use of 'IMO' would negate the need for others to ask. And as it is 3 letters it is not hard to be clear.

either do you though. You invoked the people before..what people? I could take your point if you didn't do it as well, you do. We all do. I have linked multiple articles and quotes. Videos etc. There's not much data available around the number of FG voters that support a border poll.

The polls back me up though in some manner. If we were to take the idea that the journal, reddit, boards, comments on sites, were, perhaps, the pulse of the nation it looks like the lads in FG are screwed. But professional widespread polls show FG retain a lead, which indicates that their supporters approve of most of their baseline policies - free market policies, low corporation tax, sensitivity around Republicanism, nationalism and so forth. I don't think anybody likes the housing crisis, but many have their own gaff so are shedding crocodile tears.

And its quite clear as to why that is the case.

I'm not a classist but the last referendum we had a car had to go around Ballybough with a speaker from Mary Lou all day ( i was off) telling people to go out and vote. Now i know that doesn't happen in other FG strongholds cause my brother lives in terenure and my mother lives in Dundrum.

these are realities. Its unfortunate Mary Lou, knows this more than most you having gone to Notre Dame etc but its the reality.