RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

KWAG2019

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well after this 'episode' as you call it - I think I will be doing the opposite as you.
Voting FG for the first time in my life because at least the leadership are showing some balls, to try and move people on from a myopic narrow view of history.
And before you ask Maria Bailey was not in my constituency!

I think they’ll suit you. Part of the mess here is the smug assumption that those who saw through the event were historically illiterate. The problem for the failed FG project is precisely that people weren’t.

If people are looking to a future UI which changes the constitutional structure of the state all these matters are simply resolved by that state formally celebrating only one event: the date of its own existence. Underlying the so called intelligentsia’s model about commemoration is a false idea of reconciliation. You will never see the DUP at PIRA commemorations or vice versa in the future nor is there any need for that. What matters in such a future state is that people look to the future and leave commemorations to families, local groups and communities. Most people worry about jobs, housing, health and their children and want the state to be an efficient partner in delivering that.

marieholmfan

Leo can't understand the fuss about the Black and Tans!

He loves JLS and he HOPES one of them will come out!

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I think they’ll suit you. Part of the mess here is the smug assumption that those who saw through the event were historically illiterate. The problem for the failed FG project is precisely that people weren’t.

If people are looking to a future UI which changes the constitutional structure of the state all these matters are simply resolved by that state formally celebrating only one event: the date of its own existence. Underlying the so called intelligentsia’s model about commemoration is a false idea of reconciliation. You will never see the DUP at PIRA commemorations or vice versa in the future nor is there any need for that. What matters in such a future state is that people look to the future and leave commemorations to families, local groups and communities. Most people worry about jobs, housing, health and their children and want the state to be an efficient partner in delivering that.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So where do you stand on the pro-treaty lads? They violently agitated against a UI using British artillery.

TBH, I still have conflicted feelings about this period.
The British left a mess behind them in almost all places they were. I don't blame either side for that mess tbh.
I resolutely try not to indulge in civil war politics and having read through a huge amount of the Bureau of Military Archives, see it as an inevitable and tragic period of our history.

marieholmfan

Odhinn wrote: »

We'll just have to hand him paper and crayons and see what comes out.

Eddie the Skeleton waving a Union Jack emblazoned with the words


My only crime is loyalty

Plumbthedepths

'Come out ye Black and Tans' number 1 on the Irish and UK iTunes chart. Think Leo and Charlie got their answer.
I'm sure a thank you for the increased royalties from the Wolf Tones will be forthcoming.

gormdubhgorm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I think they’ll suit you. Part of the mess here is the smug assumption that those who saw through the event were historically illiterate. The problem for the failed FG project is precisely that people weren’t.

If people are looking to a future UI which changes the constitutional structure of the state all these matters are simply resolved by that state formally celebrating only one event: the date of its own existence. Underlying the so called intelligentsia’s model about commemoration is a false idea of reconciliation. You will never see the DUP at PIRA commemorations or vice versa in the future nor is there any need for that. What matters in such a future state is that people look to the future and leave commemorations to families, local groups and communities. Most people worry about jobs, housing, health and their children and want the state to be an efficient partner in delivering that.

How is it is a false idea of reconciliation many of those in the RIC/DMP were Irishmen who would have voted for the Home Rule Party.

It just suits a myopic viewpoint to tar the RIC and DMP as the one evil construct. As for the unionists commemorating the PIRA it is not analogous as there are no Home Rule equivalents, fighting with the Provos.
The DMP and RIC of the 1920's on the other hand should be something that should be the spark for mature debate.
Unfortunately many are just immature people not willing to move forward in mindset.

JP Liz V1

Well the song Come Out Ye Black and Tans gone to No. 1

FrancieBrady

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I think they’ll suit you. Part of the mess here is the smug assumption that those who saw through the event were historically illiterate. The problem for the failed FG project is precisely that people weren’t.

If people are looking to a future UI which changes the constitutional structure of the state all these matters are simply resolved by that state formally celebrating only one event: the date of its own existence. Underlying the so called intelligentsia’s model about commemoration is a false idea of reconciliation. You will never see the DUP at PIRA commemorations or vice versa in the future nor is there any need for that. What matters in such a future state is that people look to the future and leave commemorations to families, local groups and communities. Most people worry about jobs, housing, health and their children and want the state to be an efficient partner in delivering that.

It is tragic that Leo and Charlie didn't have a read of this which covers some of what you say.
These people put tremendous, worthwhile effort into their preparatory work and Leo, Charlie etc destroy it in a couple of days.

https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Initial/Initial/index.html

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

'Come out ye Black and Tans' number 1 on the Irish and UK iTunes chart. Think Leo and Charlie got their answer.
I'm sure a thank you for the increased royalties from the Wolf Tones will be forthcoming.

That Northern Bank money is finally being spent?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/northern-bank-robbers-still-struggling-to-spend-265m-655038.html

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Well the song Come Out Ye Black and Tans gone to No. 1

On the other hand it could be John Delaney (ex FAI) splashing his cash he loves an Irish rebel song - lovely fella.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That Northern Bank money is finally being spent?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/northern-bank-robbers-still-struggling-to-spend-265m-655038.html

Your response I believe would be best described as immature. lol.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it is a false idea of reconciliation many of those in the RIC/DMP were Irishmen who would have voted for the Home Rule Party.

It just suits a myopic viewpoint to tar the RIC and DMP as the one evil construct. As for the unionists commemorating the PIRA it is not analogous as there are no Home Rule equivalents, fighting with the Provos.
The DMP and RIC of the 1920's on the other hand should be something that should be the spark for mature debate.
Unfortunately many are just immature people not willing to move forward in mindset.

The plan included appropriate remembrance of the RIC/DMP that not one single person, or political party objected to.

You are just ignoring that crucial point.

Jimmy Garlic

jimgoose wrote: »

The FG grassroots down here were never keen on Leo Varadkar, most would vastly prefer Simon Coveney. And as for greed and corruption, I'd say FG and FF are about equal on that score, but FG types tend to be slightly more embarrassed about it.

the late globalist bagman Peter Sutherlands muse. He would ditch what little is left of Irish sovereignty in a heartbeat at the behest of his fellow travellers.

marieholmfan

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your response I believe would be best described as immature. lol.

Immature but funny IMO

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That Northern Bank money is finally being spent?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/northern-bank-robbers-still-struggling-to-spend-265m-655038.html





On the other hand it could be John Delaney (ex FAI) splashing his cash he loves an Irish rebel song - lovely fella.

Your edit is even more pathetic than the original comment.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your response I believe would be best described as immature. lol.

So those voting for the song 'come out you black and tans' are forward thinking people with a sense of nuance of history?

marieholmfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So those voting for the song 'get out you black and tans' are forward thinking people with a sense of nuance of history?

It's Come Out You Black and Tans!


Come out and ride me like a man!

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your edit is even more pathetic than the original comment.

Why? Because it does not suit your narrative we all those the 'types' that sing rebel songs - some from a distance like John Delaney. Some who try to show how Irish they are. When the real sad part is the vast majority are sung in English!
The language of the very 'oppressors' they are supposed to be rallying against.

That to me is pathetic.

Look at the wolf tones all thier songs are in English - yet they do not have the education or cop on to sing in Irish. Because if they did most of thier 'fans' would not have a clue what they were singing about.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So those voting for the song 'come out you black and tans' are forward thinking people with a sense of nuance of history?

I would imagine the vote for the song is in response to the clusterf**k created by Leo and Charlie in their attempts to commemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans. Just my opinion though.

marieholmfan

Songs in Irish don't tend to be rebel songs as such

is mo Ollailm an tairegad agus bochtam an tor
Cad e sin don te sinn nach bainneam sinn do


Or

Mas tiarna tir tu duke no ri tu
Ni ciurfir pingin is tu faoil bod


Any way no-one is stopping you from writing songs!

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why because it does not suit your narrative we all those the 'types' that sing rebel songs - some from a distant like John Delaney. Some who try to show how Irish they are. When the real sad part is the vast majority are sung in English!
The language of the very 'oppressors' they are supposed to be rallying against.

That to me is pathetic.

Look at the wolf tones all thier songs are in English yet they do not have the education or cop on to sing in Irish. Because if they did most of thier 'fans' would not have a clue what they were singing about.

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Leo can't understand the fuss about the Black and Tans!

He loves JLS and he HOPES one of them will come out!

Look Leo wants JLS to come out...
Behan wanted the black and tans to come out...

Now we only have to wait for the Unionists to come out....

lawred2

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So those voting for the song 'come out you black and tans' are forward thinking people with a sense of nuance of history?

Fairly sure it's more to do with being a proxy for a slap in the face of FG.

Which not being a dim lad, you would have known already..

sabat

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When the real sad part is the vast majority are sung in English!
The language of the very 'oppressors' they are supposed to be rallying against.

That to me is pathetic.

How would the Black and Tans know to come out if you said it to them as Gaeilge?

marieholmfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Look Leo wants JLS to come out...
Behan wanted the black and tans to come out...

Now we only have to wait for the Unionists to come out....

In the Ireland of today everyone who wants can come out!


Oh my name is Jeff MacDonald!

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well after this 'episode' as you call it - I think I will be doing the opposite as you.
Voting FG for the first time in my life because at least the leadership are showing some balls, to try and move people on from a myopic narrow view of history.
And before you ask Maria Bailey was not in my constituency!

Have you read peoples opinions on this? Seems you are buying the FG white wash.
So how they accommodated Bailey as a party isn't relevant because she doesn't man your local parish pump?

KWAG2019

sabat wrote: »

How would the Black and Tans know to come out if you said it to them as Gaeilge?

They were all mature nuanced inclusionary multilingual members of a forward looking book club.

cameramonkey

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it is a false idea of reconciliation many of those in the RIC/DMP were Irishmen who would have voted for the Home Rule Party.

It just suits a myopic viewpoint to tar the RIC and DMP as the one evil construct. As for the unionists commemorating the PIRA it is not analogous as there are no Home Rule equivalents, fighting with the Provos.
The DMP and RIC of the 1920's on the other hand should be something that should be the spark for mature debate.
Unfortunately many are just immature people not willing to move forward in mindset.

Do you believe that using words like myopic, mature or immature to describe people that you disagree with is a "mature" way to progress a debate. When I see those words I see them as pejorative, not words to use in a sincere way, not words that would be used to widen a debate but words that would be used without actually making a cogent argument to undermine those that disagree with you. You claim that you want a mature debate but your words belie that claim.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why? Because it does not suit your narrative we all those the 'types' that sing rebel songs - some from a distance like John Delaney. Some who try to show how Irish they are. When the real sad part is the vast majority are sung in English!
The language of the very 'oppressors' they are supposed to be rallying against.

That to me is pathetic.

Look at the wolf tones all thier songs are in English - yet they do not have the education or cop on to sing in Irish. Because if they did most of thier 'fans' would not have a clue what they were singing about.

Give it over lad even the most resolut FG spin merchants gave over trying to defend the mess created by this attempted comemoration.
Even FG TD's and ministers are throwing Charlie under the bus, always room for Leo aswell. Simon is being very quiet I might add.

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Songs in Irish don't tend to be rebel songs as such

is mo Ollailm an tairegad agus bochtam an tor
Cad e sin don te sinn nach bainneam sinn do


Or

Mas tiarna tir tu duke no ri tu
Ni ciurfir pingin is tu faoil bod


Any way no-one is stopping you from writing songs!

It makes no sense to me that rebel songs are not in Irish the ultimate hypocrisy. That is the truth of it using the language of the 'oppressors' to whinge and whine.

An Poc ar Buile is a nice subtle anti British song - but it is not overt enough for the Knuckledragger simpleton Republican - with Celtic and (Insert PL league team here) tatoos.

KWAG2019

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It makes no sense to me that rebel songs are not in Irish the ultimate hypocrisy. That is the truth of it using the language of the 'oppressors' to whinge and whine.

An Poc ar Buile is a nice subtle anti British song - but it is not overt enough for the Knuckledragger simpleton Republican - with Celtic and (Insert PL league team here) tatoos.

Ah, maturity and inclusion in evidence as the racist anti Irish tropes of the Victorians era are deployed by the superior intellects who seek to guide us to the nirvana of Flanaganland.

marieholmfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It makes no sense to me that rebel songs are not in Irish the ultimate hypocrisy. That is the truth of it using the language of the 'oppressors' to whinge and whine.

An Poc ar Buile is a nice subtle anti British song - but it is not overt enough for the Knuckledragger simpleton Republican - with Celtic and (Insert PL league team here) tatoos.

If the RIC hadn't spent decades evicting Irish speaking peasants there'd be many more who could speak it.