RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

FrancieBrady

sabat wrote: »

How would the Black and Tans know to come out if you said it to them as Gaeilge?

Brilliant! :D

trashcan

marieholmfan wrote: »

It's Come Out You Black and Tans!


Come out and ride me like a man!

Resists temptation to make Leo joke here !!!

Apologies if that was immature.

Plumbthedepths

I served in the military for several years. Leo's and Charlie's handling and attitude to the mess reminds me of a joke I heard about a passing out parade.
'Mary was watching the newly passed out recruits marching by , she turned to the person beside her and said ' that's terrible they're all out of step except my Johnny'.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Give it over lad even the most resolut FG spin merchants gave over trying to defend the mess created by this attempted comemoration.
Even FG TD's and ministers are throwing Charlie under the bus, always room for Leo aswell. Simon is being very quiet I might add.

So you don't see it as a condraction at all that
people have voted for come out you black and tans -

1) Written as Bearla - the evil language of the oppressors

2) Written by a fella who was anti treaty and against the Free state (many who bought the song obviously support the DE its offshoot)

3) Sung by Celtic supporters (a British club)

It is pretend republicanism in my view.

4) The song only refers to the black and tans not the RIC/DMP

If Irish people were really as republican as they are pretending by buying this song they would be voting for 'republican SF' or Eirigi - never mind the SF traitors and the rest of the traitors in the Dail. Has a Republican SF TD being elected yet?

trashcan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I

An Poc ar Buile is a nice subtle anti British song - but it is not overt enough for the Knuckledragger simpleton Republican - with Celtic and (Insert PL league team here) tatoos.

Or, “Ah, f**k off, will Ya” as I like to call it.

James Brown

It must be terrible awkward to be Fine Gael and once again criticising the Irish people because they 'don't get' your latest con.

We take the piss when due. That's your 'Come out you black and tans' being No.1. Pretty obvious.

Junkyard Tom

If Kylie Minogue sang COYB&T's poor Leo would be like:

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

If the RIC hadn't spent decades evicting Irish speaking peasants there'd be many more who could speak it.

So what is your excuse for the last 80 years?
That is like a fat person saying they are big boned.

There are plenty of pop up gaeltachts around and ciorcal comhra's all free.
That is real Irishness getting immersed in a culture/language not having petty protests like these against well meant commemorations.

And yet some people have the neck to call themselves Irish and call the DUP intransigent?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you don't see it as a condraction at all that
people have voted for come out you black and tans -

1) Written as Bearla - the evil language of the oppressors

2) Written by a fella who was anti treaty and against the Free state (many who bought the song obviously support the DE its offshoot)

3) Sung by Celtic supporters (a British club)

It is pretend republicanism in my view.

4) The song only refers to the black and tans not the RIC/DMP

If Irish people were really as republican as they are pretending by buying this song they would be voting for 'republican SF' or Eirigi - never mind the SF traitors and the rest of the traitors in the Dail. Has a Republican SF TD being elected yet?

Just because you put 'republican' in your name doesn't make it so.
Same with 'Democrat', 'Conservative' 'Liberal' etc etc. 'Utterly Butterly' is not butter either.

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

If the RIC hadn't spent decades evicting Irish speaking peasants there'd be many more who could speak it.

The Volunteers shot an Irish speaking RIC man who was outnumbered, in Solohedbeg 1919 don't forget.

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

4) The song only refers to the black and tans not the RIC/DMP

Can you not read or do you just like spreading propaganda?

It's been repeatedly explained that the Black & Tans were part of the RIC. :rolleyes:

blanch152

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it is a false idea of reconciliation many of those in the RIC/DMP were Irishmen who would have voted for the Home Rule Party.

It just suits a myopic viewpoint to tar the RIC and DMP as the one evil construct. As for the unionists commemorating the PIRA it is not analogous as there are no Home Rule equivalents, fighting with the Provos.
The DMP and RIC of the 1920's on the other hand should be something that should be the spark for mature debate.
Unfortunately many are just immature people not willing to move forward in mindset.

This isn't even about the commemoration of the RIC, it is all about the election. Look at Mary-Lou yesterday, with her inflammatory rhetoric in the style of Trump/Johnson.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0108/1105145-united-ireland-ric/

She said "You don't build a United Ireland by denigrating the memory of those who fought for Irish freedom and independence by lionising the RIC and the Black and Tans who suppressed that desire and upheld British rule in this country."

Was she smoking something when she said that? Trump and Johnson have a style which lies about the facts, and blows up an issue to make it about something else.

The commemoration had nothing to do with the Black and Tans which is the lie part, and the inflammatory bit is to say it is denigrating the memory of those who fought for Irish freedom and independence. It now looks like SF have learned from Trump and Johnson how the inflame and tell lies to win votes. I am not looking forward to the next election.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

....Has a Republican SF TD being elected yet?

Michael Collins?

blanch152

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can you not read or do you just like spreading propaganda?

It's been repeatedly explained that the Black & Tans were part of the RIC. :rolleyes:

Except that they weren't.

They were an auxiliary unit. Auxiliary means "supplemental but not part of".

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just because you put 'republican' in your name doesn't make it so.
Same with 'Democrat', 'Conservative' 'Liberal' etc etc. 'Utterly Butterly' is not butter either.

Well it is the Utterrly Butterrly that are the protestors in this case in my opinion.
No sense of history or have a narrow view of history.

Leo is right when he said the same thing used to be said about those Irishmen who fought for the BA.
But Irish people seem to move slower than the Catholic church when it comes to historical narratives.

marieholmfan

Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve

Do you think it's a whiskey?

blanch152 wrote: »

This isn't even about the commemoration of the RIC, it is all about the election. Look at Mary-Lou yesterday, with her inflammatory rhetoric in the style of Trump/Johnson.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0108/1105145-united-ireland-ric/

She said "You don't build a United Ireland by denigrating the memory of those who fought for Irish freedom and independence by lionising the RIC and the Black and Tans who suppressed that desire and upheld British rule in this country."

Was she smoking something when she said that? Trump and Johnson have a style which lies about the facts, and blows up an issue to make it about something else.

The commemoration had nothing to do with the Black and Tans which is the lie part, and the inflammatory bit is to say it is denigrating the memory of those who fought for Irish freedom and independence. It now looks like SF have learned from Trump and Johnson how the inflame and tell lies to win votes. I am not looking forward to the next election.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Michael Collins?

Nope he was just with Sinn Fein

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

The commemoration had nothing to do with the Black and Tans which is the lie part

Flanagan said that he wanted to commemorate the 513 RIC men who were killed. The 513 number includes the Black and Tan division of the RIC.

Who's the liar in this Fine Gael mess?

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve

Do you think it's a whiskey?

Have you researched the make up of the men from the Auxies v the regular RIC at all?

cameramonkey

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There are plenty of pop up gaeltachts around and ciorcal comhra's all free.
That is real Irishness getting immersed in a culture/language not having petty protests like these against well meant commemorations.

You have a very narrow sectional view of what Irishness is, I think most of us have a wider view of what being Irish is, you dont have to speak Irish or identify with the language to be Irish.

These sorts of view cause division and might I be so bold as to add a more mature, nuanced and less myopic outlook would go a long way to making the people more united.

Zebra3

blanch152 wrote: »

Except that they weren't.

They were an auxiliary unit. Auxiliary means "supplemental but not part of".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

Dyr

blanch152 wrote: »

Except that they weren't.

They were an auxiliary unit. Auxiliary means "supplemental but not part of".

Did you pull that definition out of a dictionary or your hole?

Asking as you've form for this kind of sophistry

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you don't see it as a condraction at all that
people have voted for come out you black and tans -

1) Written as Bearla - the evil language of the oppressors

2) Written by a fella who was anti treaty and against the Free state (many who bought the song obviously support the DE its offshoot)

3) Sung by Celtic supporters (a British club)

It is pretend republicanism in my view.

4) The song only refers to the black and tans not the RIC/DMP

If Irish people were really as republican as they are pretending by buying this song they would be voting for 'republican SF' or Eirigi - never mind the SF traitors and the rest of the traitors in the Dail. Has a Republican SF TD being elected yet?

Just on your number 4, you are now attempting to do what many have failed to do before you. The Black and Tans were part of the RIC. They were recruited in the UK to join as described on the recruitment posters the best police force in the world. A shortage of uniforms at the time caused the recruits to be be attired in a hybrid uniform of black and khaki. This revisionist nonsense is frankly tiresome and pathetic by now.

Montage of Feck

Somebody's dictionary is a bit wonky.

gormdubhgorm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Flanagan said that he wanted to commemorate the 513 RIC men who were killed. The 513 number includes the Black and Tan division of the RIC.

Who's the liar in this Fine Gael mess?

Because the rest could hardly be left out, as it supposed to be inclusive recognition of the complex nature of Irish history. Irish history Is a mish mash of everything not just one strand.

What is he supposed to put in brackets (except the tans the tans who died) as a subtitle?

I am just starting to feel sick to my stomach, that I used to watch Ray Darcy on 'The Den'. As he is obviously a descendant of those Norman invaders.


Come out You Norman crowd come out and fight me where I stand...

I should never drink strongbow either!

FrancieBrady

Bambi wrote: »

Did you pull that definition out of a dictionary or your hole?

Asking as you've form for this kind of sophistry

It's rather fantastic to watch this twisting.
Flanagan tried it and got nowhere and if he tried it again would probably lose his job.
Like others, he got caught lying and trying to hide behind the Expert Group.

Below is the advertisement in English newspapers that attracted people to join the RIC as what became known as the Black and Tans.

Plumbthedepths

I posted this before but for the slow learners that claim the B&Ts were not part of the RIC.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/padraig-og-o-ruairc/padraig-og-o-ruairc-ric-legacy-burns-a-century-on-974105.html

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just on your number 4, you are now attempting to do what many have failed to do before you. The Black and Tans were part of the RIC. They were recruited in the UK to join as described on the recruitment posters the best police force in the world. A shortage of uniforms at the time caused the recruits to be be attired in a hybrid uniform of black and khaki. This revisionist nonsense is frankly tiresome and pathetic by now.

The tans were an auxiliary to the RIC, and as you well know thier recruitment was completely different - from the 'mainland UK' former convicts and Brit soldiers.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The tans were an auxiliary to the RIC, and as you well know thier recruitment was completely different - from the 'mainland UK' former convicts and Brit soldiers.

They were part of the RIC and no amount of semantic bs from you and a few others will change that.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I posted this before but for the slow learners that claim the B&Ts were not part of the RIC.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/padraig-og-o-ruairc/padraig-og-o-ruairc-ric-legacy-burns-a-century-on-974105.html

That does not change the fact that the Tans were auxilery to the RIC.

Also from the article above -
The structue of the general RIC in Ireland was as follows -

"While the majority of RIC constables were working-class Irish Catholics, senior ranks within the force were reserved almost exclusively for members of the local Protestant-Unionist ascendency and officers imported from England."

So even the working class Irish Catholics (basically Irishmen) do not deserve remembrance according to you. Such at the two RIC constables in Solohedbeg 1919?

That's a bit sad.