RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That does not change the fact that the Tans were auxilery to the RIC.

Also from the article above -
The structue of the general RIC in Ireland was as follows -

"While the majority of RIC constables were working-class Irish Catholics, senior ranks within the force were reserved almost exclusively for members of the local Protestant-Unionist ascendency and officers imported from England."

So even the working class Irish Catholics (basically Irishmen) do not deserve remembrance according to you. Such at the two RIC constables in Solohedbeg 1919?

That's a bit sad.

Comemoration of an organisation that targeted members of the civilian population for brutality and murder is sadder in my eyes.
You do understand what the word comemoration means I take it?

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They were part of the RIC and no amount of semantic bs from you and a few others will change that.

it is not semantics in the slightest you should read up on your history.

Read the bloodied field - by Michael Doyle.

Covers all angles a very fair reflection of the period and bloody Sunday 1920.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

it is not semantics in the slightest you should read up on your history.

Read the bloodied field - by Michael Doyle.

Covers all angles a very fair reflection of the period and bloody Sunday 1920.

I'll stick with the thread topic, start a thread about Bloody Sunday if you wish I may even comment.

Junkyard Tom

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because the rest could hardly be left out, as it supposed to be inclusive recognition of the complex nature of Irish history.

Will you be looking for the people of Derry to have a commemoration of the Paratroopers next?

Stop gaslighting the public, you're the ones who are fucking crazy.

sjb25

#1 in uk and Ireland for the wolf tones Somebody will get a few €€ out of it all

https://www.hotpress.com/music/wolfe-tones-come-ye-black-tans-tops-british-irish-itunes-charts-22799888?preview=1

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That does not change the fact that the Tans were auxilery to the RIC.

Also from the article above -
The structue of the general RIC in Ireland was as follows -

"While the majority of RIC constables were working-class Irish Catholics, senior ranks within the force were reserved almost exclusively for members of the local Protestant-Unionist ascendency and officers imported from England."

So even the working class Irish Catholics (basically Irishmen) do not deserve remembrance according to you. Such at the two RIC constables in Solohedbeg 1919?

That's a bit sad.

Where has anybody said they don't deserve 'remembrance'?
The Expert Group specifically said, in a section devoted to them exclusively, that they should be 'remembered'. But not in a formal state commemoration.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Comemoration of an organisation that targeted members of the civilian population for brutality and murder is sadder in my eyes.
You do understand what the word comemoration means I take it?

It can be taken as meaning as rememberance as well as your meaning.

Also you want to write off thousands of honest hard working Irishmen because it makes you uncomfortable to think of them as people.
Much easier for you to lump them in with the worse of thier side and call them murders.

As Dan Breen said himself all killing is murder.

--

There were also many purely Sectarian murders committed against civilians by the Republican side as well during the war of independence. Yet they get brushed under the carpet during 1916 celebrations etc. Heroes all?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where has anybody said they don't deserve 'remembrance'?
The Expert Group specifically said, in a section devoted to them exclusively, that they should be 'remembered'. But not in a formal state commemoration.

It is only playing with words commemoration can also be taken as a remembrance. Fair play to Charlie and Leo for trying it trying to get the country to move on.
Because if they don't do it who will instead?
Sinn Fein - Labour - The Greens etc?

gormdubhgorm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Will you be looking for the people of Derry to have a commemoration of the Paratroopers next?

Stop gaslighting the public, you're the ones who are fucking crazy.

Again that is not analogous how many working class Irish catholics were members of a paratroopers in Derry at the time?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is only playing with words commemoration can also be taken as a remembrance. Fair play to Charlie and Leo for trying it trying to get the country to move on.
Because if they don't do it who will instead?
Sinn Fein - Labour - The Greens etc?

You cannot play with 'formal state...'

They were never advised to have a formal state commemoration. Flanagan lied about that and tried to hide behind the Expert Group.

The country has moved on and hasn't had to lie about history to do it.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'll stick with the thread topic, start a thread about Bloody Sunday if you wish I may even comment.

Well the book is very relevant and topic it deals with the make of ALL of the RIC.
It also covers how those who fought on both sides felt and thought - of all shades. Well researched.

buried

Hey gorm, remember a few days ago you asked me should you be worried by a knock on your door some evening?
Well, your probably going to get one from the Fine Gael Bluebot division real soon demanding you shut the f**k up about it already.

But if those shady feicers do come knocking, tell them to feic off and keep up your good work.

Please, Keep it up all the way to the election in a few weeks time.

KWAG2019

The gift that keeps giving!

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well the book is very relevant and topic it deals with the make of ALL of the RIC.
It also covers how those who fought on both sides felt and thought - of all shades. Well researched.

As I said start a thread if you wish, I'll stick with the subject of this thread thanks all the same

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You cannot play with 'formal state...'

They were never advised to have a formal state commemoration. Flanagan lied about that and tried to hide behind the Expert Group.

The country has moved on and hasn't had to lie about history to do it.

The country has clearly not moved on and those catholic working class (some Irish speaking) proud Irishmen born and bred just eking out a living - are being treated like **** on a shoe. Just because they wore RIC uniform.
And just because people do not understand history or worse still have a narrow view of it with an agenda.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It can be taken as meaning as rememberance as well as your meaning.

Also you want to write off thousands of honest hard working Irishmen because it makes you uncomfortable to think of them as people.
Much easier for you to lump them in with the worse of thier side and call them murders.

As Dan Breen said himself all killing is murder.

--

There were also many purely Sectarian murders committed against civilians by the Republican side as well during the war of independence. Yet they get brushed under the carpet during 1916 celebrations etc. Heroes all?

There was I'm sure many hard working members of the Vichy French/ Stasi but no state comemoration of said organisations in either France or Germany but there was to their multiple victims. However off topic but you get the drift

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The country has clearly not moved on and those catholic working class (some Irish speaking) proud Irishmen born and bred just eking out a living - are being treated like **** on a shoe.

.

No they aren't. They are commemorated every year and would have had a dedicated event during the centenary. To which not a man, woman, child or political party objected when it was included in the programme of events.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There was I'm sure many hard working members of the Vichy French/ Stasi but no state comemoration of said organisations in either France or Germany but there was to their multiple victims. However off topic but you get the drift

It is not analogous to the stasi whatsoever - I cannot remember any of the stasi being home rulers?

The stasi would be more akin to the Brit G men.

weldoninhio

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Have you researched the make up of the men from the Auxies v the regular RIC at all?

The Auxies, the Tans and the regular RIC are three different things. The Tans were a special branch of the RIC, the Auxies were completely different.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is only playing with words commemoration can also be taken as a remembrance. Fair play to Charlie and Leo for trying it trying to get the country to move on.
Because if they don't do it who will instead?
Sinn Fein - Labour - The Greens etc?

We have well moved on. Housing/homelessness/health crises, coupled with insurance are were we are mostly at.
When Empire apologists try re-write history and use the state to do it, we've a problem.
Flanagan and Varadkar got their arses handed to them by the court of public opinion and politicians from all parties including their own.
They have little business representing a people they don't understand and disrespect IMO.

FrancieBrady

weldoninhio wrote: »

The Auxies, the Tans and the regular RIC are three different things. The Tans were a special branch of the RIC, the Auxies were completely different.

I suspect somebody is on very shaky 'knowledge of the period' ground to be honest.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not analogous to the stasi whatsoever - I cannot remember any of the stasi being home rulers?

The stasi would be more akin to the Brit G men.

The DMP? Aren't you commemorating them along with the Black and Tans? There's no pleasing you Unionists.

Regards...jmcc

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not analogous to the stasi whatsoever - I cannot remember any of the stasi being home rulers?

The stasi would be more akin to the Brit G men.

Look lad even TD's and ministers of the party you are going to vote for didn't buy the bs spin put forward by Leo and Charlie yet you expect people here to suck it up. GTFO with yourself.
You seem intelligent enough yet wilfully stupid on occasions. Keep up the good ( pointless) work. I've had enough of your revisionism nonsense.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I suspect somebody is on very shaky 'knowledge of the period' ground to be honest.

Plus even Sinn Fein's Mary Lou refers to the war of independence as the Tan War this is technically incorrect. The British forces did not only include the black and tans.
It is like calling all vacuum cleaners 'hoovers'.

But it suits the narrative to use the one broad brush,
Which is what you are trying to do here.

That is the nub of the problem a broad brush is used in people's mind, and there is no subtlety or nuance.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Look lad even TD's and ministers of the party you are going to vote for didn't buy the bs spin put forward by Leo and Charlie yet you expect people here to suck it up. GTFO with yourself.
You seem intelligent enough yet wilfully stupid on occasions. Keep up the good ( pointless) work. I've had enough of your revisionism nonsense.

And you know why people didn't accept it

1) Not understanding history fully

or

2) An agenda lead view of history

If we in the 26 counties cannot suck it up - what hope for the unionists and a peaceful united ireland?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus even Sinn Fein's Mary Lou refers to the war of independence as the Tan War this is technically incorrect. The British forces did not only include the black and tans.
It is like calling all vaccum cleaners hoovers.

But it suits the narrative to use the one broad brush,
Which is what you are trying to do here.

That is the nub of the problem a broad brush is used in people's mind and there is no subtlety or nuance.

Don't vote for mary Lou, would be my advice to you.

You keep skipping past answers that don't suit your 'narrative', could you address this please?

No they aren't. They are commemorated every year and would have had a dedicated event during the centenary. To which not a man, woman, child or political party objected when it was included in the programme of events.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112209435&postcount=1848

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

1) Not understanding history fully

Do you? All your neo-Unionist bloviating suggests that you have a very clear agenda of pushing one narrative and supporting the Varadkar/Flanagan/Bruton Home Rule faction in FG.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

The FG Bluebots do seem to have made a complete mess of things. They have a history of screwing up. A few years ago, the HTML code for the FG website was nicked from the BBC's website for FG's brand new website. The website was hacked because of some stupid mistakes. Their former social media guru ended up in federal prison in the US. And now the meme of FG being the Black and Tans party has taken hold along with "Come out, ye Black and Tans" getting to the tops of the music charts.

And there are still some FG Bluebots (I wonder who came up with that word?) trying to defend the actions of FG, the RIC, the Auxillaries and the Black and Tans.

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

The DMP? Aren't you commemorating them along with the Black and Tans? There's no pleasing you Unionists.

Regards...jmcc

All part of the wonderful tapestry of Irish history. But some people just want to pick selective pieces of it and forget those who do not suit thier politics.
No matter where they were born what language they spoke or what religion they were.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All part of the wonderful tapestry of Irish history. But some people just want to pick selective pieces of it and forget those who do not suit thier politics.
No matter where they were born what language they spoke or what religion they were.

So you agree that you want to commemorate the Black and Tans?

Regards...jmcc