RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

LuasSimon

155 pages says a lot about how much this issue has blown up in Fine Gaels face ... Charlie Flanagan MP for Laois has certainly made a fair mess facing into an election for Fine Gael Candidates in tight constituencies,

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

Do you? All your neo-Unionist bloviating suggests that you have a very clear agenda of pushing one narrative and supporting the Varadkar/Flanagan/Bruton Home Rule faction in FG.

Regards...jmcc

Why do you put the regards there all the time?
Also shouldnt it be Is mise le meas?

I have never voted FG in my life but on this occasion I say fair play to leo and charlie. They are spot on. The rest will catch up in a few decades the ball is rolling now

Plumbthedepths

LuasSimon wrote: »

155 pages says a lot about how much this issue has blown up in Fine Gaels face ... Charlie Flanagan MP for Laois has certainly made a fair mess facing into an election for Fine Gael Candidates in tight constituencies,

The knives have come out for Charlie, Regina was first out of the traps with stiletto blade behind her back.

gormdubhgorm

LuasSimon wrote: »

155 pages says a lot about how much this issue has blown up in Fine Gaels face ... Charlie Flanagan MP for Laois has certainly made a fair mess facing into an election for Fine Gael Candidates in tight constituencies,

I think you missed a trick there you could have wrote Marybrough instead of Laois :eek:

buried

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The rest will catch up in a few decades the ball is rolling now

Made a right balls of it alright. It'll be another 100 years before some of the current Fine Gael backbenchers ever get back into the floor of the Leinster house canteen.

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

So you agree that you want to commemorate the Black and Tans?

Regards...jmcc

It is not a black and tan commemoration it includes the whole of the RIC the majority of those were Irish men and women. Like you or me - so I have no problem with it.
It was war sh!t happens.

I suppose the viciousness of the Civil War will be forgotten when that memorial around in a few years time?

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why do you put the regards there all the time?
Also shouldnt it be Is mise le meas?

Force of habit and no.

I have never voted FG in my life but on this occasion I say fair play to leo and charlie.

So which party have you voted for in past elections or will the 2020 GE be your first?

They are spot on.

No. They are clueless gobsh!tes with no appreciation of Irish history.

The rest will catch up in a few decades the ball is rolling now

Unfortunately for FG, it has rolled back into its goal.

Regards...jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

So you agree that you want to commemorate the Black and Tans?

Regards...jmcc

If the word 'mark' rather than commemorate had been used, would people have kept their knickers untwisted ?

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not a black and tan commemoration it includes the whole of the RIC the majority of those were Irish men and women.

Didn't know there were women in the RIC. You have no problems with commemorating the Black and Tans and the Auxillaries even though they were terrorists torturing and murdering civilians?

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

If the word 'mark' rather than commemorate had been used, would people have kept their knickers untwisted ?

They would have found another angle no doubt.

I think Gladstone said when you make an agreement with an Irishman, he will find something else wrong and you will have to start again.

Looks like he was spot on.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

If the word 'mark' rather than commemorate had been used, would people have kept their knickers untwisted ?

So you too want to commemorat/mark etc the Black and Tans. Perhaps you'd equally hope that they'd listen to Marty Whelan and think he was an expert on Classical Music rather than someone playing elevator music at the wrong speed.

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

Didn't know there were women in the RIC. You have no problems with commemorating the Black and Tans and the Auxillaries even though they were terrorists torturing and murdering civilians?

Regards...jmcc

I mean Irish people as you well know - plus if I called you a man if you were a woman I might stop getting those lovely regards at the end of your posts?

It was not a sole commemoration for the tans it is for the RIC and DMP
Also the tans were not the only people who murdered civilians.
All groups from both sides did.

You seem to think that Irish history like a star trek film goodies v baddies.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They would have found another angle no doubt.

They? The Irish people?

I think Gladstone said when you make an agreement with an Irishman, he will find something else wrong and you will have to start again.

Can't even get the quotation right? Perhaps your knowledge of history is not as top notch as you'd have one believe.

Looks like he was spot on.

But he never said that.

Regards...jmcc

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All part of the wonderful tapestry of Irish history. But some people just want to pick selective pieces of it and forget those who do not suit thier politics.
No matter where they were born what language they spoke or what religion they were.

Selectively picking pieces of Irish history?

You mean like those who love to talk about the RIC being honest, hard-working men keep street urchins in their place and all that, but terrified of the truth of what else the RIC did?

fundi

Nift wrote: »

its well documented, the tide turned quickly with the executions.

Con Colberts account - The rebels were marched to Richmond Barracks. “When we were almost at the Coombe maternity hospital two drunken men insisted in falling in with us. They were ejected from our ranks several times on the route but eventually must have got into the ranks in my rear, for about two months later I saw those two men taking their exercise in Knutsford Prison.”

On their march they were subjected to abuse from the public. “They were ‘Shoot the Sinn Féin ****s.’ My name was called out by some boys and girls I had gone to school with . . . The British troops saved us from manhandling.

“This was the first time I ever appreciated the British troops, as they undoubtedly saved us from being manhandled that evening, and I was very glad as I walked in the gate of Richmond Barracks.”

Certainly the Republican terrorists were seen by many as just that.
About 513 RIC people were murdered in those years before independence....how many did the RIC kill in retaliation?

Galwayguy35

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They would have found another angle no doubt.

I think Gladstone said when you make an agreement with an Irishman, he will find something else wrong and you will have to start again.

Looks like he was spot on.

Great example there, Gladstone was another c**t who regarded the Irish as dirt on his shoe.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I mean Irish people as you well know - plus if I called you a man if you were a woman I might stop getting those lovely regards at the end of your posts?

So you think that there were women in the RIC? Any references or citations on this or is it just another one of your historical "facts"?

It was not a sole commemoration for the tans it is for the RIC and DMP

So you do agree that it was a commemoration for the Black and Tans as well?

You seem to think that Irish history like a star trek film goodies v baddies.

Unlike you, I appear to have read some Irish history. If you were somewhat brighter and more knowledgeable about Star Trek, you'd have pointed out the situation of Picard having being used by the Borg against the Federation.

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Selectively picking pieces of Irish history?

You mean like those who love to talk about the RIC being honest, hard-working men keep street urchins in their place and all that, but terrified of the truth of what else the RIC did?

You are deliberately being disingenuous I said there were many Irish people some Irish speakers born and rared in Ireland - many were members or the RIC.

If you look up the Solohedbeg raid you will see that.

jmcc

fundi wrote: »

Certainly the Republican terrorists were seen by many as just that.
About 513 RIC people were murdered in those years before independence....how many did the RIC kill in retaliation?

The RIC guarded food being exported from Ireland when approximately 2 million Irish people starved to death.

Regards...jmcc

branie2

They also brutally assaulted people during the 1913 strike and lockout

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

So you think that there were women in the RIC? Any references or citations on this or is just another one of your historical "facts"?

So you do agree that it was a commemoration for the Black and Tans as well?

I said woman because you could be a woman - as in Irish person.
Maybe I should just have said person because a pronoun might still offend you?

It is a broad umbrella not just the tans.

Unlike you, I appear to have read some Irish history. If you were somewhat brighter and more knowledgeable about Star Trek, you'd have pointed out the situation of Picard having being used by the Borg against the Federation.

Regards...jmcc

That was funny I will give you that - but for a fella who is pompous enough to say -

"Unlike you, I appear to have read some Irish history"

and have regards... at the end of all his/her/it's every post

You don't half over simplify Irish history if you are against the commemoration of the RIC/DMP because you would know that it was a very broad church.

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

The RIC guarded food being exported from Ireland when approximately 2 million Irish people starved to death.

Regards...jmcc

So you are suddenly implying that the RIC caused the famine come off it man that is stretch even for a 'well read' history buff like yourself

Solohedbeg ambush was also strongly condemned by Nationalists as the two RIC were well respected in the area. One of the RIC men was widower and left five orphans.

You on the other hand are trying to paint them all as mindless stormtroopers.

Regards...jmcc's new friend.

The Rape of Lucretia

branie2 wrote: »

They also brutally assaulted people during the 1913 strike and lockout

Look, bad stuff went down. On all sides.
And it was the republican faction that kicked things off in 16, so the greater portion of blame must lie with them.
But there were the good and the innocent on all sides too. And they deserve their lives and their roles remembered with respect.

It would seem to me that much of the bandwagon merchants taking glee from this postponement are really just trying to drum up some anti-FG feeling as we roll into an election. If the Govt had turned down a recommendation to run this event, people would have jumped on that with equally opposite zeal, if they thought there was cynical political capital to be mined.

pjohnson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you are suddenly implying that the RIC caused the famine come off it man that is stretch even for a 'well read' history buff like yourself

Solohedbeg ambush was also strongly condemned by Nationalists as the two RIC were well respected in the area. One of the RIC men was widower and left five orphans.

Regards...jmcc's new friend.

You seem almost as upset about the "regards" sign off as you do the Black and Tans. Very amusing.

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are deliberately being disingenuous I said there were many Irish people some Irish speakers born and rared in Ireland - many were members or the RIC.

If you look up the Solohedbeg raid you will see that.

I'm not being disingenous.

I would gladly see a truth commission take place and examine the alleged crimes of all parties.

Others want to hide the crimes of RIC terrorists and give them a free pass.

gormdubhgorm

pjohnson wrote: »

You seem almost as upset about the "regards" sign off as you do the Black and Tans. Very amusing.

Haha It does p!ss me off I will be honest.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I said woman because you could be a woman - as in Irish person.

That would be physically and mentally impossible.

Maybe I should just have said person because a pronoun might still offend you?

So it was another of your historical "facts" that turned out to have been made up by you for the sake of this argument. How many more of these "facts" have you made up?

It is a broad umbrella not just the tans.

So you want to include the British Army too? Why not, in honour of Charlie Flanagan's anti-semitic, Nazi-loving bigot of a father, add the Nazi concentration camp guards? After all, that's what the RIC were during the Famine.

You don't half over simplify Irish history if you are against the commemoration of the RIC/DMP because you would know that it was a very broad church.

You've agreed that you want to commemorate the Black and Tans, then? The only thing sparser than your knowledge of Irish history is your knowledge of Star Trek movies. Sad that!

Regards...jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

So you too want to commemorat/mark etc the Black and Tans. Perhaps you'd equally hope that they'd listen to Marty Whelan and think he was an expert on Classical Music rather than someone playing elevator music at the wrong speed.

Regards...jmcc

You seem to greatly revere Marty Whelan, and raise him most off-topically. He may or may not be a great radio host. He may or may not be an allround expert on classical music (I would submit that renowned authority or not on Puccini does not necessarily make him so). But unless you can enlighten us on his views of the RIC/DMP/FG commemoration, then I suggest he be left outside this conversation.

gormdubhgorm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Look, bad stuff went down. On all sides.
And it was the republican faction that kicked things off in 16, so the greater portion of blame must lie with them.
But there were the good and the innocent on all sides too. And they deserve their lives and their roles remembered with respect.

It would seem to me that much of the bandwagon merchants taking glee from this postponement are really just trying to drum up some anti-FG feeling as we roll into an election. If the Govt had turned down a recommendation to run this event, people would have jumped on that with equally opposite zeal, if they thought there was cynical political capital to be mined.

Spot on post is a pure game.

Even down to Mary Lou using the phrase Tan War - technically incorrect but pointed.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Look, bad stuff went down. On all sides.

Sounds like a regular Marty Whelan show but without the elevator music.

Let's put it in simpler terms: The Black and Tans were terrorists. They were sent to Ireland to terrorise, torture and murder Irish people. Varadkar, Flanagan and Bruton want to commemorate these terrorists and their murderous activities against the Irish people.

Regards...jmcc