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RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

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    #1982
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I am curious what would you view as the appropriate way?
    And what name would you call it?

    As suggested by the chairman of the Expert Group Maurice Manning and committee member Dermot Ferriter - as part of an academic review and local commemorations.


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    #1983
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I am curious what would you view as the appropriate way?
    And what name would you call it?

    A mention in a fact based unbiased manner at a talk on history as part of the program.
    Tan apologists could have a private wreath laying at FG HQ.


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    #1984
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    So why are FG TDs saying it was a Flanagan solo run if they're on the right track?

    Because they have to think of the smallminded so they can get votes.
    If there was little furore and anti feeling about it they would be all aboard.

    I think I heard a clip with Gay Byrne and his condom show.

    Paraphrasing he said something like what has seemed as abnormal or strange will become the normal in years to come.

    As regards the RIC/DMP when the Irish people are ready for change and to accept the past it will become the norm. It might seem strange at first and hard to accept but people will learn about/accept the true nature of Irish history eventually.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #1985
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This will probably be another question that will be avoided by a few on here.

    Certain posters keep denigrating Ireland for the way this has panned out and claim there is a better way.

    Can they point to any other state that has formally commemorated organisations of an occupying/colonising power that it had to evict?


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    #1986
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deal done in the north apparently.


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    #1987
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    A mention in a fact based unbiased manner at a talk on history as part of the program.
    Tan apologists could have a private wreath laying at FG HQ.

    The RIC/DMP have been commemorated without objection from anybody, for years.


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    #1988
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    jmcc wrote: »
    Being a techie, I've spotted a far simpler and more efficient solution: encourage people not to vote for them. :) That's the best way of dealing with these gobsh!tes.

    Regards...jmcc

    A lot of wishful thinking going on it seems, that this little zephyr in a teacup will hurt FG in the election. It has a certain pathetic quality.
    The bounce they could get from the boost from being recognised as the most serious party providing genuine leadership should not be discounted.


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    #1989
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    As suggested by the chairman of the Expert Group Maurice Manning and committee member Dermot Ferriter - as part of an academic review and local commemorations.

    Sure that is only the same thing but in a different name watered down to me.
    If they are going to do it at all they should do it right.
    Send a message to those of the Unionist persuasion of today. I think it would put them under pressure as no reciprocation would speak volumes.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #1990
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Because they have to think of the smallminded so they can get votes.
    If there was little furore and anti feeling about it they would be all aboard.

    I think I heard a clip with Gay Byrne and his condom show.

    Paraphrasing he said something like what has seemed as abnormal or strange will become the normal in years to come.

    As regards the RIC/DMP when the Irish people are ready for change and to accept the past it will become the norm. It might seem strange at first and hard to accept but people will learn about/accept the true nature of Irish history eventually.

    A question, why do you think it is necessary for the state to commemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans? Can you name any other country that has honoured members of an occupation force that brutalized, murdered and put done the desire for self determination in a barbaric fashion.


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    #1991
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    A lot of wishful thinking going on it seems, that this little zephyr in a teacup will hurt FG in the election. It has a certain pathetic quality.
    The bounce they could get from the boost from being recognised as the most serious party providing genuine leadership should not be discounted.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/patient-found-with-broken-neck-after-fall-from-trolley-974460.html
    I doubt a bounce will be forthcoming from horrific cases like this.


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    #1992
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Sure that is only the same thing but in a different name watered down to me.
    If they are going to do it at all they should do it right.
    Send a message to those of the Unionist persuasion of today. I think it would put them under pressure as no reciprocation would speak volumes.

    My message to Unionists is that if you think we will endorse what the RIC/DMP did as an organisation by formally commemorating them as a state then you are mistaken.


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    #1993
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Because they have to think of the smallminded so they can get votes.
    If there was little furore and anti feeling about it they would be all aboard.

    The arrogance of the FG'rs never cease to amaze me.


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    #1994
    Billcarson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    fundi wrote: »
    Correct. A very one sided view of history is taught in Ireland. 513 RIC murdered in the few years before independence and how many did they kill in retaliation? Yet the Republicans, who killed innocent civilians too, are the only good guys.


    Even a good side isn't perfect. No one is. War can bring out the worst in people.

    Christ the way you apologists go on you swear you have some vendetta against your own. Why don't ye fo to Britian and serve the crown.


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    #1995
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Auguste Comte wrote: »
    The arrogance of the FG'rs never cease to amaze me.

    It's the same arrogance from Leo and Charlie that caused this mess.


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    #1996
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Deal done in the north apparently.

    Not done yet by the sounds of it. Sounds like Coveney and Smith are trying to apply a bit of pressure in their presser. They looked wrecked too.


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    #1997
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Au contraire. Far too toxic now for anyone to touch. Charlie pegged under the bus by his own kind. Regina, Rock and Fergus O Dowd calling it a bad move.
    There'll be a discussion on the RIC/Tans in Glenties or some such place by and for the great and the good and that'll be the end of it.

    I thought that I mentioning FG having an overall majority after the election would allude to the fact I was joking, obviously you thought I was serious, which I wasn't


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    #1998
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Spot on post is a pure game.

    Even down to Mary Lou using the phrase Tan War - technically incorrect but pointed.

    Why did David Lloyd George send over the Tans rather than the British army??


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    #1999
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    My message to Unionists is that if you think we will endorse what the RIC/DMP did as an organisation by formally commemorating them as a state then you are mistaken.

    In fact I would go further and say to Unionists that I would emphatise with them if the British government decided to commemorate the IRA as a state. I would stand shoulder to shoulder with them criticising that.


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    #2000
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    A lot of wishful thinking going on it seems, that this little zephyr in a teacup will hurt FG in the election. It has a certain pathetic quality.
    The bounce they could get from the boost from being recognised as the most serious party providing genuine leadership should not be discounted.

    This is exactly what I thought - they are trying to be grown up about history.
    Other parties wouldn't have the balls to try it.
    It will irk me in future say 20 years during the RIC commemoration when Taoiseach Jack Chambers of FF makes a speech - saying how times have changed we accept all of history on this island without the exclusion on others based on political persuasion. While John O'Brien (Greens) Tainiste leads the applause

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2001
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    This is exactly what I thought - they are trying to be grown up about history.
    Other parties wouldn't have the balls to try it.
    It will irk me in future say 20 years during the RIC commemoration when Taoiseach Jack Chambers of FF makes a speech - saying how times have changed we accept all of history on this island without the exclusion on others based on political persuasion. While John O'Brien (Greens) Tainiste leads the applause

    Again for the umpteenth time...we have accepted the history of the RIC/DMP, they were to be appropriately recognised in this phase of the centenary programme.


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    #2002
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Put the IRA/volunteers committed atrocities as well if you look up the Dunmanway killings for example.

    Or does your revulsion only extend to all British of the War of independence then suddenly become horrified at more recent events like the Omagh bombing?

    This is a thread on the RIC. You were whinging a few posts ago about Marty Whelan being off topic yet here you are dragging it miles off topic.


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    #2003
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    A question, why do you think it is necessary for the state to commemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans? Can you name any other country that has honoured members of an occupation force that brutalized, murdered and put done the desire for self determination in a barbaric fashion.

    Prehaps you will take the time to answer this question Gorm.


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    #2004
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Prehaps you will take the time to answer this question Gorm.
    I asked a similar one....ignored.


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    #2005
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    A mention in a fact based unbiased manner at a talk on history as part of the program.
    Tan apologists could have a private wreath laying at FG HQ.

    They can lay the read while The Sash plays in the background.


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    #2006
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I asked a similar one....ignored.

    That in itself is an answer.


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    #2007
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Why did David Lloyd George send over the Tans rather than the British army??

    Because when Trim was burned it was on the front page of the New York Times. Ireland matters.


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    #2008
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    A question, why do you think it is necessary for the state to commemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans? Can you name any other country that has honoured members of an occupation force that brutalized, murdered and put done the desire for self determination in a barbaric fashion.

    Because Irish history is not simple. Times changed very quickly. 1916 then bang off things went after the executions

    In America they had a racist white supremacist who was seen as great in Woodrow Wilson.
    Plus America has whitewashed a lot of thier history when it comes to coups and so on. American people are told that the USA is great constantly and Iran bad etc.
    But the USA caused the coup in 53. Yanks rarely mention that.

    Much like Irish people are told only one type of Irishman during the WOI the heroic republican. People are told there was only one type fighting for Brits in the WOI murderers. No real discussion of the make up of British forces, and who fought for them.
    Barely any mention of any IRA atrocities during the WOI when Irish people discuss the WOI.
    It was vicious in reality and far from glorious and simplistic.

    I know the victor's write history but it is time we moved away from the narrow story telling.

    I feel it is important the old stereotypes are broken down.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2009
    Billcarson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Why did David Lloyd George send over the Tans rather than the British army??


    A sly way of trying to put the Irish down. Britain went to war in 1914 for the freedom of small nations, when the germans invaded Belgium. After the war they would have been seen as hypocrites in the eyes if the world if they had sent in the might of the British army. So the sly way was to send the tans and auxiliaries to help the RIC to take on the IRA.


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    #2010
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Prehaps you will take the time to answer this question Gorm.

    I just did take time literally!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2011
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,219 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Because Irish history is not simple. Times changed very quickly. 1916 then bang off things went after the executions

    In America they had a racist white supremacist who was seen as great in Woodrow Wilson.
    Plus America has whitewashed a lot of thier history when it comes to coups and so on. American people are told that the USA is great constantly and Iran bad etc.
    But the USA caused the coup in 53. Yanks rarely mention that.

    Much like Irish people are told only one type of Irishman during the WOI the heroic republican. People are told there was only one type fighting for Brits in the WOI murderers. No real discussion of the make up of British forces, and who fought for them.
    Barely any mention of any IRA atrocities during the WOI when Irish people discuss the WOI.
    It was vicious in reality and far from glorious and simplistic.

    I know the victor's write history but it is time we moved away from the narrow story telling.

    I feel it is important the old stereotypes are broken down.

    Where are they told all this stuff...can you supply links or this more anecdotal stuff?


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