RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it bs the new recruits were taken from elsewhere (England etc) so the RIC effectively ceased being the RIC in all but name, the appearance changed and the tactics as they were military.
Completely different to the RIC members who were already constables long before the recruitment drive like O'Donnell aged 50 who was killed in Solhedbeg

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/soloheadbeg-wicked-beginning-of-the-war-of-independence-1.3742421

Also a local said - eight volunteers v 2 RIC was hardly a fair fight...

--

To me I cannot fathom why it is so handy to forget those RIC lads like O'Donnell and O'Connell Irish born and bred.

There are many Irish and other nationalities in the British Army at present...is it not the British Army anymore?

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote: »

The same can be said about pretty much any event that is commemerated in Ireland.

The state commemerated the rising, without much fuss, who's first victim was an unarmed DMP officer, Limerick-born Catholic, James O’Brien shot dead in the head.

What I learned from the past few days was that many RIC offciers were shot dead out of Uniform.
Two were shot dead in their hospital beds to take one example, a war crime by any era.
A number were shot dead at church and at confession.
Many were shot dead in front of family, wives and their children.

We should have had just one commemoration for all, or if we are going to commemorate each actor/party individually then we had to accept some stuff in return. Some however, want their cake and eat it.

Is it just those that wore a uniform you feel any empathy for?
Prehaps a mother of 3 expecting her fourth ( 7 months pregnant) shot in front of her 3 children by the RIC would she be worthy of some of that sympathetic concern you have for the deceased RIC members?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Fianna Fail and modern SF were born out of violent agitation against the will of the people.
This is Ireland after all.

Are any of them still agitating violently?

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

So the "Join the RIC" aspect just escaped you as it is an inconvenient truth? What has Charlie Tan'agan to say about celebrating and commemorating the RIC and its Black and Tan members?

Regards...jmcc

It is not just tan members though that is what you are fixating on.

If you compared the British forces to a woman.
The Tans are like the equivalent of British sides breasts to you.
You can't stop staring. Brand new implants.
Do you not want to get to know her nuanced personality and other aspects, or is it just about pure atrocities with you?
Wham, bam, thank you tan?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are any of them still agitating violently?

Until very recently yes.
Plus there are stirrings from those outside the dail in places.

corner of hells

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not just tan members though that is what you are fixating on.

If you compared the British forces to a woman.
The Tans are like the equivalent of British sides breasts to you.
You can't stop staring. Brand new implants.
Do you not want to get to know her nuanced personality and other aspects, or is it just about pure atrocities with you?
Wham, bam, thank you tan?

I think I need a break from the thread after that.

Regards..COH

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not just tan members though that is what you are fixating on.

But I haven't. The only one trying to whitewash the Black and Tans is you. The where officially members of the RIC and that advert you posted even mentions joining the RIC. But you seem to claim that they were not RIC members.

If you compared the British forces to a woman.
The Tans are like the equivalent of British sides breasts to you.
You can't stop staring. Brand new implants.
Do you not want to get to know her nuanced personality and other aspects, or is it just about pure atrocities with you?

I didn't. Has anyone told you that you are a very weird person?

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Until very recently yes.

And did they have 'parity of esteem'?

Plus there are stirrings from those outside the dail in places.

Who?

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Is it just those that wore a uniform you feel any empathy for?
Prehaps a mother of 3 expecting her fourth ( 7 months pregnant) shot in front of her 3 children by the RIC would she be worthy of some of that sympathetic concern you have for the deceased RIC members?

Sure we could all do that listing trick - Dunmanway killings and so on.
I note that I was not thought about republican atrocities in the WOI when I was at school it was painted as it was all one sided - the ramshackle tans etc,

A whitewashed history I was thought like many others I assume.

Ireland = good
Brits = bad

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Sure we could all do that listing trick - Dunmanway killings and so on.
I note that I was not thought about republican atrocities in the WOI when I was at school it was painted as it was all one sided - the ramshackle tans etc,

A whitewashed history I was thought like many others I assume.

Ireland = good
Brits = bad

Only person trying to white wash history here lad is you and members of the FG party you are going to vote for.

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

I think I need a break from the thread after that.

Regards..COH

He is a disgrace to anybody making reasonable counter arguments here. I'm done with his nonsense tonight. He has lost his argument and is just finding ways to throw some invective about.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I do wonder where these nice clean conflict/wars that follow the rules happened..

It is war. It is what it is.

However, when everyone was getting rilled up about the burning of Cork and various attrocities by the black and tans were read out on Liveline, do we honestly expect that the old IRA fought like gentlemen? Nope.

The Civil war commemerations will be interesting, as for all the talk about the democratic will of the people, Anti-Treaty forces said, '**** that' and started killing Gardai and 'Free Staters'

Again, people want their cake and eat it. The democratic will of the people is used as a mudguard when it suits and ignored when it doesnt.

Personally I think responsibility should lie with those with the 'power' to stop conflict/war happening in the first place. Like not allowing sectarian statlets to form, or not invading/colonising countries you have no business interfering in, for a start.
There is only one state involved in our centenary events still doing that.

Then you are utterly niave and have no idea on how power works. You are a broken record on this topic and a good example of why there will be no UI in the foreseeable future. You lack any empathy or ability to see it from the other side.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus there are stirrings from those outside the dail in places.

You've been watching porn again, haven't you?

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Is it just those that wore a uniform you feel any empathy for?
Prehaps a mother of 3 expecting her fourth ( 7 months pregnant) shot in front of her 3 children by the RIC would she be worthy of some of that sympathetic concern you have for the deceased RIC members?

To quote your comrade in arms...

I do wonder where these nice clean conflict/wars that follow the rules happened. In your head perhaps? Pinewood or Hollywood Studios? Maybe link to one in the real world so we can compare.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And did they have 'parity of esteem'?



Who?

Well in NI they venerated the provos Bobby Sands etc and he even has streets named after him in some countries.

Who is causing the latest trouble - dunno name of organisation but he fired indiscriminately at a crowd and killed Lyra McKee

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

You've been watching porn again, haven't you?

Regards...jmcc

Only ones where they wear balaclavas!
Like you though I wouldn't be mad on too much tan.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Who is causing the latest trouble

Charlie Flanagan, Leo Varadkar and John Bruton. Ordinary decent FGers are very upset at being lumped in with such people. They have been absolutely terrorised about losing their Dail seats because of the actions of these people.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Only ones where they wear balaclavas!
Like you though I wouldn't be mad on too much tan.

So you are saying that you are a racist too?

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

But I haven't. The only one trying to whitewash the Black and Tans is you. The where officially members of the RIC and that advert you posted even mentions joining the RIC. But you seem to claim that they were not RIC members.

I didn't. Has anyone told you that you are a very weird person?

Regards...jmcc

I have clearly said that there are atrocities on both sides time and again.
Also once the tans came into the RIC it was no longer the RIC the uniform changed the people changed.
The auxiliaries were a different branch officers and then you had the DMP

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote: »

To quote your comrade in arms...

Comrade? do you feel better by trying to belittle others. I notice it's a tactic of members of a certain political leaning. Like a sort of superiority complex. Your party members are prone to it and I would venture that superiority complex is what caused this mess.

gormdubhgorm

jmcc wrote: »

So you are saying that you are a racist too?

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Comrade? do you feel better by trying to belittle others. I notice it's a tactic of members of a certain political leaning. Like a sort of superiority complex. Your party members are prone to it and I would venture that superiority complex is what caused this mess.

Too funny. :pac::pac:

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

It is war. It is what it is.

However, when everyone was getting rilled up about the burning of Cork and various attrocities by the black and tans were read out on Liveline, do we honestly expect that the old IRA fought like gentlemen? Nope.

I have been telling people that on here for years when they rant about the modern IRA being different to the Old IRA. You know the posters I am talking about I am sure.

The Civil war commemerations will be interesting, as for all the talk about the democratic will of the people, Anti-Treaty forces said, '**** that' and started killing Gardai and 'Free Staters'

Again, people want their cake and eat it. The democratic will of the people is used as a mudguard when it suits and ignored when it doesnt.

Civil Wars are nasty nasty things too. Ours caused by the mess left behind after independence and the foundation of a statlet that spectacularly failed.

Then you are utterly niave and have no idea on how power works. You are a broken record on this topic and a good example of why there will be no UI in the foreseeable future. You lack any empathy or ability to see it from the other side.

I have looked at the 'other side' by reading Hansard Transcripts up to 1969 and the contemporary and reflective writings of Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan and others etc. They knew what would happen in NI and what was happening.

There was not a single thing in the GFA that could not have been delivered in 1969 had they had the courage they eventually had when facing down the Unionists with the Anglo Irish agreement.

I am well able to look at the other side.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have clearly said that there are atrocities on both sides time and again.
Also once the tans came into the RIC it was no longer the RIC the uniform changed the people changed.
The auxiliaries were a different branch officers and then you had the DMP

Nope the uniform was a hybrid as the official RIC uniform was in limited supply. There's that white washing of history again.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well in NI they venerated the provos Bobby Sands etc and he even has streets named after him in some countries.

Who is causing the latest trouble - dunno name of organisation but he fired indiscriminately at a crowd and killed Lyra McKee

That wasn't a member of FF, FG or Sinn Fein. The people who killed Lyra are absolutely opposed to all three.

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote: »

Too funny. :pac::pac:

It would be if it weren't the mo of yourself and certain others.
Anyway I've had enough of the rewriting/spinning of history from the FG fanclub. Goodnight all.

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also once the tans came into the RIC it was no longer the RIC the uniform changed the people changed.

So all those good Irish RIC men disappeared? It still was the RIC and the Black and Tans were members of the RIC. That's the historical reality.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That wasn't a member of FF, FG or Sinn Fein. The people who killed Lyra are diametrically opposed to all three.

That's enough to give the Mathematically minded nightmares.

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been telling people that on here for years when they rant about the modern IRA being different to the Old IRA. You know the posters I am talking about I am sure.

This is the usual response though. When provo atrocities are listed, we get the stock response that it was a war, when we get to British military or MI5 doings we get the 'how dare they' stock response.

Civil Wars are nasty nasty things too. Ours caused by the mess left behind after independence and the foundation of a statlet that spectacularly failed.

What failed exactly in the Free State?

I am well able to look at the other side.

By advoacting ethnic cleansing, from your previous posts? I doubt it. The mask slips with you every now and again. You see the North purely as a territorial acquisition to be won. The people living there are secondary.

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

That's enough to give the Mathematically minded nightmares.

Regards...jmcc

'tis indeed. I'm tired, time for bed!