RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You claim that you are only watching porn where they wear balaclavas and that you are not keen on too much "tan". Do you bother thinking before you type?

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This is the usual response though. When provo atrocities are listed, we get the stock response that it was a war, when we get to British military or MI5 doings we get the 'how dare they' stock response.

Why have you deflected from the point?

What failed exactly in the Free State?

I was referencing the formation of NI/partition but this^ from a poster who lists all the failings of this country when he cannot win an argument is comedy gold. You did it here on this thread. Hilarious.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was referencing the formation of NI/partition but this^ from a poster who lists all the failings of this country when he cannot win an argument is comedy gold. You did it here on this thread. Hilarious.

What?

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

What?

Do you agree that the Black and Tans were, according to historical fact, part of the RIC and that the commemoration and celebration of the RIC was as mistake for Charlie Tan'agan, Leo Varadkar and FG? A simple 'yes' or 'no' should suffice.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What?

Back when you were echoing Charlie Flanagan's lie and insisting that the Expert Group had recommended this form of commemoration you were quite happy to also echo Charlie and claim that we hadn't 'matured' as a nation.
To then challenge me when you thought I was saying we were a failed state was hilarious.

Do you withdraw that claim about the Expert Group now btw, because you tried to blame everybody else?

markodaly wrote:

And beside, this is commemeration is a recommendation by an all party committee. Make sure the vent your anger at FG/FF/SF/Labour etc.. as well.

weldoninhio

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say that? Are you mixing me up with someone else?

I said, if you don't know a person's service record or character you cannot call them 'scum'.
I accept there were some good men in the RIC/DMP.

By that token, would you believe that there may have been some “good” nazis and SS soldiers??

weldoninhio

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well Oskar Schnidler is well remembered by Israel they are even making his former factory into a memorial.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/schindlers-factory-holocaust-memorial-180961059/

He was a member of a political party. He never served as a Nazi soldier

Fann Linn

Lads on here trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear are gas.

FrancieBrady

weldoninhio wrote: »

By that token, would you believe that there may have been some “good” nazis and SS soldiers??

I am absolutely sure there were plenty conflicted by what they were doing, and who gave different 'degrees of service'. By that I mean, members who didn't go as far as others, or who diluted orders.

spurious

weldoninhio wrote:

By that token, would you believe that there may have been some “good†nazis and SS soldiers??

Do you not think a more honest analogy would be do you think all soldiers in the German army were Nazis/SS/Gestapo?

jimgoose

weldoninhio wrote: »

By that token, would you believe that there may have been some “good” nazis and SS soldiers??

The SS/Waffen SS and the Wehrmacht were two separate outfits and didn't usually think that well of each other. They all pretty much hated the Gestapo.

marieholmfan

spurious wrote: »

Do you not think a more honest analogy would be do you think all soldiers in the German army were Nazis/SS/Gestapo?

But the 'clean Wehrmacht' is a myth and most German soldiers were in fact Nazis until 1943.
August Landmesser who died in Russia was an exception to very accurate rule.
Further no one was conscripted into the RIC - they chose to burn other people's houses to help their own families.

weldoninhio wrote: »

He was a member of a political party. He never served as a Nazi soldier

The German's had conscription during the second world war. No one was conscripted into the RIC.

I refuse to 'virtue signal' some respect for someones seven times great uncle out of propriety. At the time most people were ashamed to have RIC men in the family.

corner of hells

marieholmfan wrote: »

But the 'clean Wehrmacht' is a myth and most German soldiers were in fact Nazis until 1943.
August Landmesser who died in Russia was an exception to very accurate rule.
Further no one was conscripted into the RIC - they chose to burn other people's houses to help their own families.


The German's had conscription during the second world war. No one was conscripted into the RIC.

I refuse to 'virtue signal' some respect for someones seven times great uncle out of propriety. At the time most people were ashamed to have RIC men in the family.

Is a Marieholm a type of houseboat/narrow boat ?

marieholmfan

corner of hells wrote: »

Is a Marieholm a type of houseboat/narrow boat ?

Very nearly - it is a type of sailboat; it is a common racing boat class in Holland (it is I believe based on a traditional Danish design) they basically sail themselves;unfortunately there aren't any in Ireland (anymore I owned one briefly a few years ago - she's now back in Holland ). I believe that it it is the smallest commercially produced boat in which one can sail around the world. I should probably change my name to narrowboatfan.

corner of hells

marieholmfan wrote: »

Yes it is a common racing boat class in Holland; but there aren't any in Ireland. I believe that it it is the smallest commercially produced boat in which one can sail around the world.

Thanks , I think Landmesser died in Croatia rather than Russia.

Scoundrel

marieholmfan wrote: »

But the 'clean Wehrmacht' is a myth and most German soldiers were in fact Nazis until 1943.
August Landmesser who died in Russia was an exception to very accurate rule.
Further no one was conscripted into the RIC - they chose to burn other people's houses to help their own families.


The German's had conscription during the second world war. No one was conscripted into the RIC.

I refuse to 'virtue signal' some respect for someones seven times great uncle out of propriety. At the time most people were ashamed to have RIC men in the family.

A total and utter myth quite right as you say the Wehrmacht participated in many mass shootings and massacres on the Eastern Front in particular it suited many after the war to blame the SS for everything.

In regards your other point 100% correct as well no one was forced to join the RIC or indeed the British army in Ireland no conscription in Ireland they died as a direct result of the choices they made many of the British soldiers in Dublin during 1916 were Irish they should be consigned to the dustbin of history where all other nations send their traitors.

marieholmfan

Scoundrel wrote: »

A total and utter myth quite right as you say the Wehrmacht participated in many mass shootings and massacres on the Eastern Front in particular it suited many after the war to blame the SS for everything.

In regards your other point 100% correct as well no one was forced to join the RIC or indeed the British army in Ireland no conscription in Ireland they died as a direct result of the choices they made many of the British soldiers in Dublin during 1916 were Irish they should be consigned to the dustbin of history where all other nations send their traitors.

Also we are not our ancestors. If your uncle was in the SS that doesn't make you a villain- if your Granny was an angel that doesn't make you a saint.

Scoundrel

corner of hells wrote: »

Thanks , I think Landmesser died in Croatia rather than Russia.

He surely did and I believe there's also a dispute over whether that's him in the famous photograph.

corner of hells

Scoundrel wrote: »

A total and utter myth quite right as you say the Wehrmacht participated in many mass shootings and massacres on the Eastern Front in particular it suited many after the war to blame the SS for everything.

In regards your other point 100% correct as well no one was forced to join the RIC or indeed the British army in Ireland no conscription in Ireland they died as a direct result of the choices they made many of the British soldiers in Dublin during 1916 were Irish they should be consigned to the dustbin of history where all other nations send their traitors.

A good move would be to eradicate all memorials to the British war machine , example in case, the Boer war memorial at Stephens green.

marieholmfan

Scoundrel wrote: »

He surely did and I believe there's also a dispute over whether that's him in the famous photograph.

Maybe we could all use that to understand the pressures that people were under at that time. He joined the army so his wife and kids wouldn't be murdered - the Germans still killed his wife.
I suppose that in 1845 you might join the RIC so your own kids could eat while you evicted other people. That needs to be remembered thought about and understood but not valorised or 'commemorated'

Scoundrel

corner of hells wrote: »

A good move would be to eradicate all memorials to the British war machine , example in case, the Boer war memorial at Stephens green.

I agree along with various WW1 memorials as well this sad stain on our history when Irish people participated in the British war machine should be acknowledged and learnt from but never commemorated or celebrated as it is today.

Scoundrel

marieholmfan wrote: »

Maybe we could all use that to understand the pressures that people were under at that time. He joined the army so his wife and kids wouldn't be murdered - the Germans still killed his wife.
I suppose that in 1845 you might join the RIC so your own kids could eat while you evicted other people. That needs to be remembered thought about and understood but not valorised or 'commemorated'

Absolutely 100%

corner of hells

Scoundrel wrote: »

I agree along with various WW1 memorials as well this sad stain on our history when Irish people participated in the British war machine should be acknowledged and learnt from but never commemorated or celebrated as it is today.

Have you read much of the thread ?

FrancieBrady

Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

TheValeyard

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

Yeah, they just do not get it.

owlbethere

Vicky Phelan said last year that
'Leo is all talk and no action' and never was there a truer words spoken.

FG were hardly able to form a government from the last election. Hopefully this event that is now deferred will lose them a lot of the grey vote. I suspected for a long time that politics and elections is more of a popularity contest than anything else. I overheard an old one on the bus one day saying 'Leo is a nice young lad'. My goodness, don't vote because the Taoiseach is a nice young lad, vote on policies and how they can help the country and the problems Ireland faces with health and homelessness, childcare and rocketing insurance.

He gives incredible, positive speeches but that's all it is.
'I represent people who get up early in the morning' comes to mind.

I chatted to my parents about this event. They heard about it briefly but didn't take any notice and didn't read into it more. I explained that the government had an event planned to commemorate the RIC organisation that was based in Ireland from the early 1900's and in which the black and tans joined. The look of disgusted on their faces. They started telling stories from their parents.

They said the English wanted to suppress the Irish. Schools were burned down to prevent Childrens education taking place. When schools were burned, schools took place out in the open in a field and they were called hedge schools. Even the hedge schools and these fields were burnt.

I can't believe the government wants to celebrate, honour and show respect for that organisation. Hopefully it will lose them a lot of the grey vote.

golfball37

owlbethere wrote: »

Vicky Phelan said last year that
'Leo is all talk and no action' and never was there a truer words spoken.

FG were hardly able to form a government from the last election. Hopefully this event that is now deferred will lose them a lot of the grey vote. I suspected for a long time that politics and elections is more of a popularity contest than anything else. I overheard an old one on the bus one day saying 'Leo is a nice young lad'. My goodness, don't vote because the Taoiseach is a nice young lad, vote on policies and how they can help the country and the problems Ireland faces with health and homelessness, childcare and rocketing insurance.

He gives incredible, positive speeches but that's all it is.
'I represent people who get up early in the morning' comes to mind.

I chatted to my parents about this event. They heard about it briefly but didn't take any notice and didn't read into it more. I explained that the government had an event planned to commemorate the RIC organisation that was based in Ireland from the early 1900's and in which the black and tans joined. The look of disgusted on their faces. They started telling stories from their parents.

They said the English wanted to suppress the Irish. Schools were burned down to prevent Childrens education taking place. When schools were burned, schools took place out in the open in a field and they were called hedge schools. Even the hedge schools and these fields were burnt.

I can't believe the government wants to celebrate, honour and show respect for that organisation. Hopefully it will lose them a lot of the grey vote.

We are all guilty of conflating on this issue. The hedge schools as a result of penal laws were the late 1700s as far as I'm aware, certainly nothing to do with the RIC.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

The Irish people will accept a lot from their politicians, incompetence, gombeenism, criminality etc but the one thing they never accept is arrogance. It is always abundant in FG.
O Connell unfortunately shares a constituency with that fool Eoghan Murphy so its unlikely that both will lose their seat in the General Election.

KWAG2019

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

And one conclusion from this is that FG should not be trusted with education.

Edgware

KWAG2019 wrote: »

And one conclusion from this is that FG should not be trusted with education.

Aren't they the Party that wanted to take History off the Curriculum?